I don’t know why the UK government is only imposing sanctions on some Israeli settlers and not the Israeli government btw since moving civilians into occupied territories is a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention – a war crime.
I’d put a uk travel ban on every single person living in an illegal settlement, perhaps that would make a difference especially if the US would follow
Not much information on the BBC still, lets hope it calms down.......
The ball has now been passed over to Iran, their bluff has been called so to speak.
If Iran responds we will have a tit for tat series of exchanges.
It is too early to say but it would appear that Iranian air defences may have coped with last night's Israeli strike - apparently Iran is playing down the strike and saying that they have no plans to respond.
The International Atomic Energy Agency has confirmed there was no damage to any nuclear sites despite the widely circulated claim that they were the Israeli target.
If it is a case of Iranian air defences holding out, something which apparently the Iranians have been focusing on in recent years, then that is bad news for the Israelis - the only serious military advantage Israel has over Iran is in air power.
Although Israel might not have been attempting to actually inflict any significant damage. Yesterday on pro Palestinian social media I read a very bizarre claim that the United States had pleaded with Iran to let Israel carry out a token strike so not to lose face.
Yesterday on pro Palestinian social media I read a very bizarre claim that the United States had pleaded with Iran to let Israel carry out a token strike so not to lose face.
According to C4 last night Israel had agreed to a token strike in exchange for US acquiescence in an attack on Rafah. As the Palestinian ambassador put it - Palestinian blood is the cheapest currency.
The ball has now been passed over to Iran, their bluff has been called so to speak.
That’s one way to put it. Another is to say that their patience has been tested (again).
Iran has had a pretty robust missile defence system for quite a while. It's used the S-300 era soviet missile as the basis for its own development; the Bavar 373 systems, which [on paper at least] is formidable. It's said to have the ability to track stealth and multiple targets simultaneously The trouble Iran has is that it's air force is well behind the capabilities of pretty much every one around them. They still operate pre-1979 F-14, F4 and F5s (fun fact; the Iranians are the only air force other than the US Navy to operate the F14), they do have some developments of old F5, but they're not much use. I know they have done a deal with Putin to exchange drones for a batch of Su-35, but I don't know whether 1. they've been delivered or 2. they're operational. Regardless, the IAF is no match for the Israeli air force if they decided to launch more than a few missiles. Israel can't operate with impunity over Iran, but it wouldn't take long.
Having said all that. Geographically, Iran is pretty much invasion-proof, and there's thankfully no way Israel can take it on. This current tit-for tat can only escalate into a air war or just continually launching pointless missiles at each other- and the countries in between both Iran and Israel aren't going to be well chuffed about that carrying on much longer I'd have thought.
Another "oops-sorry" moment from the IDF today, dropping bombs on the area in Rafah that was "supposed" to be a safe refuge.
Link below into the Washington posts report regarding the Israeli slaughter of 6yr old Hind Rajab and her family along with the ambulance crew sent to rescue them.
If it is a case of Iranian air defences holding out, something which apparently the Iranians have been focusing on in recent years, then that is bad news for the Israelis – the only serious military advantage Israel has over Iran is in air power.
A limited strike using only missiles (launched from outside Iran) which penetrated the defences of Khatami Air Base and damaged an S300 SAM radar site https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68866548
That it's part of the defence for the Natanz nuclear site tells Iran something about its air defences
Protests against Benjamin Netanyahu continue in Israel over his conduct before and throughout this conflict https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/thousands-israelis-join-anti-government-protests-calling-new-elections-2024-04-20/
Unfortunately opposition to Netanyahu is often because he is not considered right-wing enough:
An opinion poll shows that 82% of Israelis want the IDF to launch an assault on Rafah, despite very strong opposition from the United States and the UK because of the likely very high civilian casualties due to the hundreds of thousands of displaced Palestinians currently there.
And another opinion poll shows that two thirds of Israeli oppose any humanitarian aid for Gaza.
A limited strike using only missiles (launched from outside Iran) which penetrated the defences of Khatami Air Base and damaged an S300 SAM radar site https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68866548
That it’s part of the defence for the Natanz nuclear site tells Iran something about its air defences
Tells Iran that its nuclear deterrent - should it acquire one - risks being destroyed in its silos and needs to be launched before that happens. What could possibly go wrong?
US-Israel: Netanyahu to reject any sanctions on army units
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68870273
Whilst the Biden administration has under pressure been forced to impose sanctions against individual Israeli West Bank settlers I didn't expect to see any time soon the United States government impose sanctions on entire IDF units.
After decades of getting away with doing whatever they fancied doing the Israelis are very slowly starting to be held accountable, even by their very closest allies.
I know this is a thread talking about the politics of it all but as an aside, the footage released to the news from the IDF that looks like a ‘first person shooter’ video game, filmed from body worn cameras of troops, I find deeply offensive
Could be worse, your TV license could be funding propaganda...
Could be worse, your TV license could be funding propaganda...
Oh...
https://twitter.com/markcurtis30/status/1781947956368757178
Believe it when I see it.
Well in the grand scheme of things I am sure that US sanctions on the Netzah Yehuda battalion will have no practical consequences on the IDF's operational abilities, so for that reason I wouldn't dismiss it.
However just the Biden administration talking about it, never mind implementing the sanctions, is hugely politically damaging to Israel and to Netanyahu in particular.
I also don't doubt that Biden would much rather not go down that road but with this being an election year and the pressure on him, especially from Democrats, to get tough on Israel massively increasing he feels that he has no option but to carry out some Israel/Palestine policy window dressing.
Israeli behaviour in occupied West Bank appears to be particularly unpopular with US voters, including apparently the majority of American Jews.
So a big probelm I hear is the US trying to get some funding approved for Ukraine, it seems like the American system is just log-jammed into paralysis with differences of opinion.
Making the correct noises is one thing, but actually doing something is a different matter. It's probably a hard sell to the american people at the moment, and it's also election year (yikes).
The breathless twitter posted revealing secret RAF involvement in the conflict bears no relation to the story printed in Declassified UK. If you read Declassified UK; it doesn't mention the flights from Israel to the UK, or the spy missions or sending jets to Israel, it just says the RAF (stationed in Cyprus) was involved in intercepting drones from Iran over Syria and Jordan because of an agreement made in 2020, and targeting Houthi's launching attacks on international shipping.
The question the article poses is: Should the UK be shielding Netenyahu's regime (by shooting down drones) from the consequences of its actions? To which the answer is: If it prevents further needless civilian deaths, then probably, yes.
There's plenty on Declassified UK for all to see
RAF flights to Israel
The MoD also admitted on Tuesday that it has flown close to 50 RAF operated aircraft to Israel since it began bombing Gaza.The department told parliament: “As of 2 February 2024, a total of 48 RAF operated aircraft have flown to Israel since 7 October 2023.”
It added: “These flights included aircraft used to transport Ministers and senior officials conducting diplomatic engagements with Israel.”
Declassified could find no similar flights in the two months before the Gaza campaign began.
The majority of these flights are vast C-17 and A400 military transport aircraft which have gone from RAF Akrotiri, the sprawling British air base on Cyprus, to Tel Aviv.
The UK government claims the dozens of flights have “provided no lethal or military equipment other than medical supplies to Israel”.
But it is possible the US and Israel are using bases in Britain to move weapons to Israel.
Asked whether the US has used any RAF bases in the UK to transfer weapons to Israel since 7 October 2023, the MoD responded that it “does not comment on Allies’ operations”.
It has the same policy of secrecy about the nature of Israeli military flights in Britain.
https://twitter.com/declassifiedUK/status/1781699342589743494
Furthermore, let's not forget that the UK continues to supply arms to Israel...
https://twitter.com/declassifiedUK/status/1780923240233284010
Although I try to keep up-to-date with what is happening in Palestine I generally go out of my way to avoid reading details of atrocities being committed in Gaza.
This latest news from the Nasser Hospital however was hard to ignore as a couple of weeks ago I went to a talk locally by a British surgeon who has been going to Gaza regularly since 2019 to help teach Palestinian doctors (Medical Aid for Palestine).
He was at the Nasser Hospital earlier this year and during his talk he showed pictures and videos of life inside the hospital. Hundreds of people were literally living inside the hospital quite simply because they had no where else to live and desperately hoped that it was the safest place from Israeli attack.
He showed where families had partitioned off areas of the hospital corridors with sheets hanging from the ceilings to give themselves some sort of privacy. He showed clothing, including children clothing, hanging to dry all along the handrails of the hospital staircase.
So I found reading the following particularly heart wrenching.
"In the hospital courtyard, civil defence members and paramedics have retrieved 180 bodies buried in this mass grave by the Israeli military. The bodies include elderly women, children and young men”
In the hospital courtyard, civil defence members and paramedics have retrieved 180 bodies buried in this mass grave by the Israeli military. The bodies include elderly women, children and young men
Why does this shit not surprise anyone?
Who can defend this kind of shite?
The question the article poses is: Should the UK be shielding Netenyahu’s regime (by shooting down drones) from the consequences of its actions? To which the answer is: If it prevents further needless civilian deaths, then probably, yes.
How about shielding the civilian Palestinians from needless deaths at the hands of Isreal's bombs?
FFS.
Although I try to keep up-to-date with what is happening in Palestine I generally go out of my way to avoid reading details of atrocities being committed in Gaza.
This latest news from the Nasser Hospital however was hard to ignore as a couple of weeks ago I went to a talk locally by a British surgeon who has been going to Gaza regularly since 2019 to help teach Palestinian doctors (Medical Aid for Palestine).
It's a hard watch/read as they discover body after body, many with their hands tied behind their backs, I suggest you avoid the twitter feed "Eye On Palestine", their reporting and pictures/videos are showing exactly what's going on and the less graphic reports are often used by the major news agencies as they can be verified
Yet much of the western world stopped funding to UNRWA because of what Israel said, including a ban on funding as part of the Israel aid deal agreed in the US yesterday, a deal which already gave twice as much funding for Isreal to buy weapons as it provided humanitarian support for Palestine. IMO Israel has been very effective in using such propaganda as an extra weapon for genocide in Palestine.
If it's in the strategic interests of the allied cause, claims don't need to be substantiated before being broadcast around the world to skew public opinion in favour of the desired outcome;
https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1781768548886397410
And anyway, we all know those aid organizations are far from innocent; look out they invariably get in the way of Israel's munitions:
https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1782038574285623397
https://twitter.com/TheLastWord/status/1763323675569504647
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1754770740518273336
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1740800184278188473
https://twitter.com/UNRWA/status/1775136904964603989
The last thing needed is people highlighting that thanks to the blockade this whole situation was going on well before the 'war' broke out...
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1716097743674810501
What do we make of the Met Police row and the CAA chief exec exercising his civil right to cross the path of the proPalestinian demo. Suella Braverman was defending it on R4 this morning while claiming she'd seen enough clips to know what happened. I hope they have her on again tomorrow now the full set of clips have come available.
IDK - he's technically right of course but putting on a Celtic shirt and walking through an Orange Order march is also technically a right but equally dumb as f****. Is that victim blaming?
What do we make of the Met Police row and the CAA chief exec
Seems the cop was being a whopper, no? Not the first time such an incident has been caught on camera.
It would be quite entertaining watching compilation clips on YT of cops being clueless if it wasn't for the significant power they wield. One could certainly hold the view that their selection and training of individuals is sub-optimal off the back of some of these interactions.
Given the fact that falter is a staunch zionist with very questionable settler rights to colonise Palestine along with his desperation to create a scene by walking through the protest in multiple places with his film crew and hired security goons to protect him I figure that Suella will double down on his right to act like a dick,
right to act like a dick
If they outlawed that this forum would be a desolate wasteland overnight.
relapsed_mandalorianFull Member
What do we make of the Met Police row and the CAA chief exec
Seems the cop was being a whopper, no?
If that's your take/understanding from falter's interaction with the protest/police interaction then...............I dunno?.....not worth my explanation
not worth my explanation
Meh, I'm not under any illusion that my thoughts or words make any difference to this conflict in any way shape or form so you do what you like old bean.
Really? Have you looked at later / longer versions of the footage?
Not really because I don't give that much of a **** to do so. So are we saying Falter is the whopper for trying to induce a conflict to cry victim?
Is this what you're referring to?
I've got to say that I think the old bill done a good job of protecting him and preventing a situation where he was likely to get his head stoved in.
(how do you report ads on YouTube videos... I've came up about Sadiq Kahn that I didn't agree with?)
Got to say, the geezer got off lightly compared to Jewish anti-zionist protestors in Germany.....
37% of arrests due to anti-zionist protestors are of Jewish people despite Jews representing less than 1% of the German population.
Great Police work although they should of arrested him he was there to just cause trouble.
Not really because I don’t give that much of a **** to do so.
Enough though to have a go at a policeman doing a bloody good job of preventing a potentially serious breach of the peace and who knows what else. Same as some senior Gov politicians who are (deliberately) ignoring the later footage to continue to call for the Met Chief to be sacked.
So are we saying Falter is the whopper for trying to induce a conflict to cry victim?
That's an interpretation, for sure. Others may see as exercising a right to dress as he wishes and go where he wishes.
"What do we make of the Met Police row and the CAA chief exec exercising his civil right to cross the path of the proPalestinian demo...he’s technically right of course but putting on a Celtic shirt and walking through an Orange Order march is also technically a right but equally dumb as f****."
1) I think it's really a separate topic about British things, and not about Gaza that is the subject of this thread
2) Your Orange Order March analogy is apt. Also, the arrest to prevent breach of the peace by the guy shouting "paedo" at Prince Andrew at Prince Philip's funeral parade in Edinburgh. It's not saying the person is wrong or doing something illegal, but it's temporarily interfering with someone's liberty to stop a fight, even if they weren't the bad guy.
3) I must be getting old and reactionary but the cop's use of the phrase of "openly Jewish" sounds very ugly from the quiet of my kitchen table, and I am no friend of the Met...but failing to come up with the exact right phrasing of a fairly complicated situation when you've been up since 5am and listening to people yell for hours...it's not the most awful thing that's happened recently.
Same as some senior Gov politicians who are (deliberately) ignoring the later footage to continue to call for the Met Chief to be sacked.
Unsurprising. Standard for the Met though, any kind of high profile issue and the standard response is to call for the Chief to be sacked. Especially since the likes of SB don't have that cabinet position anymore. The creep towards American political culture moves forward.
That’s an interpretation, for sure. Others may see as exercising a right to dress as he wishes and go where he wishes.
They're not as mutually exclusive as some might try to sell. Both can be true. Exposure serves a purpose whatever the outcome.
Really? Have you looked at later / longer versions of the footage?
Yup, when the story first broke my immediate reaction was that the copper was being a muppet and had read too much nonsense in the right-wing press.
I have been on 10 pro-Palestinian demos in Central London since Oct 7 and I have seen people being "openingly Jewish" on every single one of them, including wearing kippot as the geezer in question was, and it doesn't cause the slightest problem whatsoever.
I thought copper's behaviour was simply giving ammunition to the likes of Suella Braverman and those who want to silence any criticism of Israel. I was bitterly disappointed.
I then read the whole transcript of the incident when it became available and jeezus that copper was being incredibly reasonable and professional and remarkably patient.
In very sharp contrast to Gideon Falter who was being totally disingenuous, and very obviously desperately trying to provoke trouble on that day so that it would generate negative publicity for those criticising Israel.
I was actually really disappointed that any apology had been issued.
must be getting old and reactionary but the cop’s use of the phrase of “openly Jewish” sounds very ugly from the quiet of my kitchen table, and I am no friend of the Met…but failing to come up with the exact right phrasing of a fairly complicated situation when you’ve been up since 5am and listening to people yell for hours…it’s not the most awful thing that’s happened recently.
Quite.
Same situation, but a guy wearing the colours of a water melon and trying to stroll through a group of Jewish/Isreali supporters is also likely to cause antagonism.
In this case, police done good.
