[Closed] fuel prices.....

UK fuel sales down 20% in five years or something.
whether we're getting screwed or not, this can only be a good thing shirley?

its the tax. Its OUR government ripping us off.

18p sounds so low as to be subsidised.

brakes - Member

UK fuel consumption down 20% in five years or something.
whether we're getting screwed or not, this can only be a good thing shirley?

or it just means lot of people have switched to diesel, which is great for causing lung cancer.

I suspect that the reason it's that cheap in Qatar is that the state makes the stuff, and most of its revenue comes from selling it to us at high prices. It wouldn't make any sense for them to charge their own citizens (or subjects) the same price.

It's not that different to coffee shop employees being able to drink free coffee. Just on a bigger scale!

its the tax. Its OUR government ripping us off.

Yeah, that government. What has the government ever done for us?!

Well, APART from the roads, security, transport, infrastructure, health and education...

Petrol is still something like 70p/l even without tax, IIRC.

And fuel sales are down 9% overall in 5 years, including diesel.

ok, so petrol down 24%, diesel up 13%

I suspect that the reason it's that cheap in Qatar is that the state makes the stuff, and most of its revenue comes from selling it to us at high prices. It wouldn't make any sense for them to charge their own citizens (or subjects) the same price.

you're probably right, but make you think of all the taxes on fuel and what Mr Osborne is doing with it....
good job Qatar has no hills or i'd be over there...

Saudi/emirates fuel is subsidised, in so much that it does not track the usual market, normally using companies such as PLATTS and ARGUS. However, fuel quality over there is also appalling, very very low quality stuff. Yes we are one of the highest (not highest) taxed countries as far as fuel goes, but its still not making the majors loadsa wonga as you'd expect. downstream refining is V.expensive - it's upstream where the money is made..

you're probably right, but make you think of all the taxes on fuel and what Mr Osborne is doing with it....
good job Qatar has no hills or i'd be over there...

Sure about that? I think it'd be a good idea, might make you appreciate what you've got 🙂

Petrol 70ppl without tax - i don't think so

1.43 - vat = £1.1916
1.192 - duty (£0.5795/l) = £0.612 per litre

the current market wholesale rate for PUG (i.e. standard 95 without additives etc) is £0.49053 (as of COP yesterday)

Buying the "Super grades" does scew the margins as the Tesco stuff is a con and a half, it's almost expected of the Shell stuff as it's a different base plus some decent additives.

Current PUG at the pumps in comparison is £1.369 = £1.14/l less vat, which = £0.561/l

factor in some delivery charges (between 0.5pence per litre and 1 ppl) that leaves a 5ppl profit. Lets assume you are getting a "major fuel" with a decent add pack in, that will add approx 1ppl, so you are now down to 4ppl margin - this is split between the franchisee and the OEM. The franchisee then has costs out of this.

The prices are going down my way, lost 3p pl in 3 weeks.

£7.25 per gallon (Phah) in Madeira ATM.

£1.43/litre! I remember those days, it were all fields round 'ere and you could go t'pictures and have a fish supper and still have change out of a fiver.

€1.75/litre for standard unleaded here (Netherlands)

tbh what else is going to stop folks driving un necessarily ?

that is expensive £1.48 a todays forex..

The prices are going down my way, lost 3p pl in 3 weeks

but round here the prices for 95ron went up from 1.31 to 1.43 in the month of Feb only to settle back to 1.39 now!!! nice way of putting up the prices before the budget then lowering them only slightly after to make people feel happier!! FU$%*£G theives!!

Is there much difference between Petrol and Diesel in the Netherlands?

Cos I was there last weekend and filled our van with diesel for E1.41 pl. Cheapest we saw was E1.39 pl

nice way of putting up the prices before the budget then lowering them only slightly after to make people feel happier!! FU$%*£G theives!!

Hang on - the oil companies and the markets are what cause the day to day changes. They don't give a crap about the budget.

The tax isn't responsible for those price variations.

Is there much difference between Petrol and Diesel in the Netherlands?

Diesel is much cheaper than petrol, I think it's one of the biggest price differentials in Europe.

Fuel is actually very cheap. We're just used to being spoilt.

trail_rat - Member

tbh what else is going to stop folks driving un necessarily?

Give them an alternative.
High fuel prices increase the cost of everything and stifle the growth of an economy.

High fuel prices increase the cost of everything and stifle the growth of an economy.

Actually the opposite is true.

It makes up a very small fraction of the cost of goods so has a negligible effect, and high fuel prices keep people off the roads, so people who drive for a living or deliver goods save time (which costs more than fuel) because theres far less traffic jams and gridlock.

Low fuel costs would only be good if you had loads more roads & parking or loads less people.

Fuel is actually very cheap. We're just used to being spoilt.

True, but I do love driving - spoilt bastard that I am 😈

^^ wrong ^^

No, honestly, I do love it! 😉

Fuel is actually very cheap. We're just used to being spoilt.

How do you work that out then?

HoratioHufnagel - Member

Actually the opposite is true.

It makes up a very small fraction of the cost of goods so has a negligible effect, and high fuel prices keep people off the roads, so people who drive for a living or deliver goods save time (which costs more than fuel) because theres far less traffic jams and gridlock.

High fuel prices will keep some people off the roads, but a lot of people drive because they need to, to work for example.

Considering we have high fuel prices I'm surprised, using your logic, that we have so many people on the roads and goods are so expensive.

An accellerating artic will use one gallon of fuel a minute.
I think you may have over-estimated the value of time. 😉

It makes up a very small fraction of the cost of goods so has a negligible effect

Got a breakdown of that?

Not you feefoo, that horatio fella I was commenting on.

If he, or anyone else for that matter would like to take their " fuels cheep, it stops people driving" nonsense, then please direct it to my Parents and MrsBouys Parents who live in rural locations and have to go shopping etc.

You seem to have a very blinkered view of people's right to freedom and access ability to amenities.

T'is all I'm saying on this thread where i suspect it will turn to a boiling mass of puffed out cheeks and " I'm right " attitudes.

I'm waiting for one of [i]those types[/i] who feel sorry for all the people who can't get jobs (because there are no jobs) to suggest to someone who drives to work that they should get a job they can walk or cycle to. 🙂

Given that there are millions of people making needless journeys, not car sharing, driving gas guzzlers, etc. I'd say it was still plenty cheap enough.

nickjb - Member

Given that there are millions of people making needless journeys, not car sharing, driving gas guzzlers, etc. I'd say it was still plenty cheap enough.

That's your opinion, which you can't back up with fact. 🙂

That's your opinion, which you can't back up with fact.

Given that there are millions of people making needless journeys, not car sharing, driving gas guzzlers, etc. I'd say it was still plenty cheap enough.

Trouble is people wealthy enough not to care - or perhpa too stupid to care - carry on driving as they always have. But there are people of more modest means who have a real problem affording fuel. Now we do have higher car ownership than ever so does everyone who owns a car really need it or is it just seen as pretty much an essential thing to own? It is too easy to get into the car to pop down to the shops 3/4 mile away to get a pint of milk or whatever. Annoyingly my wife who passed her driving test a couple of years ago now assures me she just has to use the car for trips that before she walked as had no choice. She does often walk though so not too miffed at her....

All I have to say is 22mpg - weeeeeeee!!!!!

Fuel is actually very cheap. We're just used to being spoilt.

How do you work that out then?

What I do is walk around Tesco and take note of the price of water / coke / beer / multi purpose cleaner / fabric conditioner / etc.

Petrol and Diesel are cheaper than most things in there despite being more costly to produce, transport, and deliver.

What I do is walk around Tesco and take note of the price of water / coke / beer / multi purpose cleaner / fabric conditioner / etc.

Petrol and Diesel are cheaper than most things in there despite being more costly to produce, transport, and deliver.

Oh OK your opinion then.

but it's only an 'opinion' that it's expensive.

£1.40ish buys me a litre of fuel, and that will move even my not-particularly-frugal car at least 8 miles.

if i ride 8 miles, i'll want a pasty, a cup of tea, and a couple of biscuits.

my car's cheaper to run than i am.

It's expensive (to the consumer) because it could be much cheaper.
I've made small bits of metal that cost thousands, but were considered cheap because that was as cheap as you could manufacturer them.

Every month people spend hundreds of pounds on just the tax on petrol, which could be used to stimulate the economy by being spent, as opposed to just being squandered by those **** wits in government.

The government needs tax thought, it's got to come from somewhere.

Opec keeps prices artificially high so it's not just tax.

BTW, I don't use much petrol so I sort of like high tax on fuel as the government benefits with little cost to me.

Oh OK your opinion then.

Coke in the petrol station was 2 x 500ml for £2, and petrol was 1 litre for £1.40ish. So petrol is cheaper litre v's litre from the same shop

Petrol did take significantly more effort to make than coke, so there is a comparison. I don't however drink 150litres of coke a week, so I can live with the cost of Coke.

Petrol is getting harder and harder to extract so the cost will keep rising as a base price, but the tax is getting stupid. As others have said driving is a just something we have to do, not an option so we're stuck with it. Demand is high so prices remain high - both in tax as they know we have no choice, and as a base price supply/demand will always be king - they charge what we will pay, and we keep paying.

Qatar get it cheap as it's at source and is subsidised by the goverment, same as manyu countries in the same region.

Driving is still just about the cheapest way around for me though despite 1kmiles a week, if I did that on a train the cost would be much much more and I'd still need cabs each end.

mudshark - Member

it's not just tax

Just the majority.

molgrips - Member

The government needs tax though, it's got to come from somewhere.

Absolutely, but I believe it needs less. There is so much money wasted across the board. Just look at the people responsible for retrieving the revenue; HMRC. What is it? 49p in every £ collected gone in the collection of it.
That seems a bit shit to me. 🙂

Fuel is far too cheap, hundreds or maybe thousands of cars go past my house everyday and only a tens of bicycles.

I'll vote for £6/l. Smaller cars driven slower can't be a bad thing.

High fuel prices increase the cost of everything and stifle the growth of an economy.
Actually the opposite is true.

I think high fuel prices, which reduce people's disposable income, and therefore spend less in other areas of the economy, have more of a negative affect than a truck, theoretically getting to its destination 5 mins earlier because of less traffic on the road.

yeah £6/l thats really stupid

you realise how much its already crippling small businesses do you

I run a transit van for work and it costs me about £7000 + a year in diesel

Edukator - Member

Fuel is far too cheap, hundreds or maybe thousands of cars go past my house everyday and only a tens of bicycles.

I'll vote for £6/l. Smaller cars driven slower can't be a bad thing.

Obviously a troll post, but fuel at that price would put me out of work, and I don't have that big a commute.
Oh, and drive a Nissan Micra.
Have a think about that between your bouts of bitter jealousy at the car drivers who pass your poorly situated house each day.
😉

sbob - Member

Obviously a troll post,

Mr E may be a little 'thought provoking' at times, but 'troll' is probably a bit strong...

i've just ridden home from work, and right now i'd also vote for £6/l if it would slow some of the murderous bastards down a little bit.

(i'll be grumbling about the price at the pump tomorrow though as i've got fill up the gas-guzzler...)

People make choices. If fuel is more expensive they will choose:

- to live closer to work

- to use public transport

- to change their business model (the market price for services will adapt so the impact on small businesses will be negligible - every plumber will have higher cost so the market price for plumbers will increase. Given that most plumbing expenditure in non-discretiionary spending the consumer will suck it up and spend less on jet fuel for that non-discretionary holiday).

No I'm not trolling, I really believe fuel is too cheap. As poof I'm not connected to mains gas, produce a lot more electricity than I consume, use public transport and my bike much more than my motor vehicles, and would happily pay four times the current price for petrol.

"The government needs tax though, it's got to come from somewhere."

Absolutely, but I believe it needs less.

Ah, so I'm mistaken in thinking we have a deficit - it's actually a surplus?

Obviously a troll post, but fuel at that price would put me out of work, and I don't have that big a commute.
Oh, and drive a Nissan Micra.
Have a think about that between your bouts of bitter jealousy at the car drivers who pass your poorly situated house each day.

Can I just check who exactly it is has a poorly situated house? I'm not sure anybody is jealous of people stuck in a car on a commute.

Too many folk move miles from work to get cheap housing.

I paid a little more in the long term knowledge that staying closer to the city meant long term i saves money by not being forced to run a car.

My colleague bought another 10 miles out (25 miles from the office) as in his words " i got a bigger house than you for the same price"

Whos the dummy ?

Sadly thats the thought process that goes through folks heads.

People like the convienance of cars and would probably bury them selves in debt than give it up if fuel prices rose.

Madame walks to work in eleven minutes, my son has walked to every school and may even walk to university. My "poorly placed house" is in the most desirable part of town with the highest average household income, the highest price per m2, and within walking distance of every serivce you could wish for, and all that for a very good reason; location, location, location.

Edit: I nearly forgot to mention that the bus for the ski resort is an easy walk away even with ski boots and a couple of pairs of skis.

aracer - Member

Can I just check who exactly it is has a poorly situated house? I'm not sure anybody is jealous of people stuck in a car on a commute.

The guy who has thousands of cars passing his door.
I don't get stuck on my commute.

Edukator - Member

People make choices. If fuel is more expensive they will choose:

- to live closer to work

- to use public transport

As someone who obviously has far too much money to have any understanding of what it is like for people on a low income, let me point out to you that not everyone can live closer to work, not everyone can use public transport to get to their place of work, and there is not an abundance of work to choose from at the moment.

I sincerely hope that helps you understand.

I haven't counted the cars but traffic isn't an issue. A thousand cars is about one a minute during the active day. One car while tying this. Triple glazing means I have to listen for them.

Edit: I've no doubt been through periods poorer than you, I didn't use any fuel at all then.

The guy who has thousands of cars passing his door.

Oh - not the person who couldn't afford to drive to work because he lives too far away then?

I was joking about your house being poorly situated, and being jealous, just incase you thought I was serious. Your view is so frankly silly and unrealistic though, that I thought the humour was fitting.
🙂

aracer - Member

Oh - not the person who couldn't afford to drive to work because he lives too far away then?

I used to work 200yds away.
Unfortunately, I no longer have that job and took what was available.
I can't afford to move closer.
Tough times, but I do what I can to ensure I'm not a burden on others.
🙂

trail_rat - Member

Too many folk move miles from work to get cheap housing.

I paid a little more in the long term knowledge that staying closer to the city meant long term i saves money by not being forced to run a car.

My colleague bought another 10 miles out (25 miles from the office) as in his words " i got a bigger house than you for the same price"

Whos the dummy?

Some people made that choice before the fuel price escalator was introduced, unfortunately.

Why unrealistic? I've biked a hilly 33km to work with the business suit in a bag (but only when train times didn't fit), lived in my business premises and generally found solutions that didn't involve regular use of a vehicle.

Are fuel prices the issue or is it our desire/need to make money versus quality of life style?
I work in Lowestoft. I used to live in Norwich (a fine city) but then I spent an hour each way driving to work. Now I live in Lowestoft (a bit of a dump) but spend 20 minutes biking to work along the sea front. I get home at 6 and have a family dinner rather than 7 and miss it all.

I suppose the point I'm rambling towards (after a bottle of wine) is that most of us could probably choose to live closer to work. We just have to choose where we want to live. And not where we want to work.

So let's say I lost my job. I'd need to find another one quickly. I'd have to take the first one that came up, even if it was in a different city. I can't afford to move. It's not always possible.

Our jobs are not stable and secure these days. Moving house is very expensive and not always possible.

friend from Doha told me yesterday it cost her approx £7 to fill her CRV with petrol approx 0.10p ltr. I just filled mine today the cost £66.00.

MrsBouys Parents who live in rural locations and have to go shopping etc.

We are seeing the results of the "me first" mentality coming home to roost. All those people who in the rural areas that shopped at the big supermarket because it was cheap and caused their local shops to close down will live to regret it, or will bugger off to the towns again leaving the rural poor to their fate. I think I'll open a shop in a rural location in about 10 years and make a comfortable if hard working living.

It's not [i]always[/i] possible Molgrips. What though, if you were offered 2 jobs? One close and one far away? Is it so terrible that your choice between the two might be influenced by the cost of commuting.

trail_rat - Member
Too many folk move miles from work to get cheap housing.

I paid a little more in the long term knowledge that staying closer to the city meant long term i saves money by not being forced to run a car.

My colleague bought another 10 miles out (25 miles from the office) as in his words " i got a bigger house than you for the same price"

Whos the dummy?

Let's say his car costs 15p fuel+5p other per mile to run, it's £3.50 extra a day to drive from his area instead of yours. Guessing the difference in equivalent house price was at least 10k to make it significant enough to talk about. That's not far off 10 years commuting at current prices!

Not knocking you, because I think you've done the right thing personally, but on driving costs alone that distance is not significant.

I know several people that has happened to, Molgrips. They have found a cheap room to rent for four night a week (though usually only two or three as they've agreed to a degree of home working or regrouping their hours over three or four days).

Edukator - Member

Why unrealistic? I've biked a hilly 33km to work with the business suit in a bag (but only when train times didn't fit), lived in my business premises and generally found solutions that didn't involve regular use of a vehicle.

You had your own business.
Congratulations.
Not everyone is fortunate enough to be in that position, and not evryone has shower facilities at work.
If I turned up to work soaking wet on my bike, I'd be sacked. 💡

So let's say I lost my job. I'd need to find another one quickly. I'd have to take the first one that came up, even if it was in a different city. I can't afford to move. It's not always possible.

Say you didn't have a car, would you then choose to take a job in a different city? How about if fuel was £6 a litre?

Is everybody really missing the point that we're talking about a paradigm shift here?

The cost of fuel barely makes up for all the bad things about living in Qatar

Anyone can start their own business. I was fortunate enough to be unemployed and so in need of employment I had to start my own business.

Edukator - Member

Anyone can start their own business.

😆

I helped a little old lady get another job (cleaning) recently after being layed off.
She was in tears.
She wouldn't have a ****ing clue where to start.
Your attitude is ridiculous and offensive, and I am not easily offended.

Edukator - Member

I was fortunate enough to be unemployed and so in need of employment I had to start my own business.

You were fortunate in obviously not being in the situation of living from hand to mouth.
Many are. 💡

Your attitude is ridiculous and offensive, and I am not easily offended.

You cannot be serious.

Edukator - Member

You cannot be serious.

[i]You[/i] cannot be serious.
Let's make fuel more expensive!
Really hit the poor!
Yay!

Really hit the polluter.

if we do it we need to substantially improve the public transport system as not all of us can commute to work by bike or always by public transport.
I try to but a number of places i work at costs me x 3 of the fuel and takes x3 as long each way- 2 hour commute with 3 train changes and a walk at either end.
Two of them i pretty much cannot reach on public transport without using bus then a train then a bus again so I cannot get there for the correct start time.
Given all the crap I need to carry it is not feasible to cycle and there are no showers when I get there

I am happy to adapt to reduce car usage and increased costs for fuel but they would need to massively change transport or else I would be in trouble. I could change jobs ....but it would require a job to be there or nearer home- even factoring in the wage cut i could take by fuel savings there are still no jobs in what I do.

Edukator we cannot all set up our own business and retire at 40 - I suspect we all wish we could. if we could we could end poverty and unemployment tomorrow

the houses were similar prices - his is bigger . if i wanted his house here id be about 30 grand extra

how ever im within bike commuting distance of almost all the industrial centres of my industry in this city.

his house has good driving access to 1 and if he wanted access to the others he would be sat in traffic for an extra hour every day.

my math also factored in the fact i do not need to run a reliable- natch expensive car as i do not rely on it at all for work.

i reckoned the payback to be near 10 years on my figures IF i bought 1 near new car and ran it for those 10 years..... im early in my career and plan to stay here for a number of years or at least rent it out if i go to work abroad hence location location location......

then theres the lifestyle - commuting 25 miles here can take an hour easily on a good day. riding my bike 15 miles takes 1 hour - with the added bonus of not going to the gym later.

my point also being that while its not unaffordable NOW things are heading such that they may well be in the future. while im not as extreme in my view as edukator i do believe people could minimise their exposure to fuel prices by not striving for that bigger house but infact choosing to fit their needs. To much status comes from your house imo. I regularly get stick for buying an ex council house (albe it 1 of only 8 houses in the middle of the countryside in an area designated a wild life preserve for red kites ) and i realise this isnt everyone but its a significant proportion of the folk ive met.

42. I found an all-over wash possible in any toilets with a hand basin and toilet cubicle. That's every company I ever visited. People have bed baths for years in hospitals.