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Another who thinks I’m not allowed to make jokes,
Jokes are usually funny.
You’re a mod and thus represent STW. Act like it.
Well some found it funny Zokes.
I’m also a forum user so can make jokes but then again so can mods.
I'd just like to say I repeatedly get an Ad for "Asia Charm - 35+"
Happy to stick with that one, thanks.
'Ted's'
sorry - i just thought 'Ted who? and his what?'
I’m also a forum user so can make jokes
Sure. And as a forum user you can suck it up when others tell you you’re being sanctimonious.
Actually he’s working on the quoting bug.
That probably explains a lot.
Why the big pause, well he is a bear.
Thanks DezB.
And as a forum user you can suck it up when others tell you you’re being sanctimonious.
Which if I have been I do.
"You’re a mod and thus represent STW. Act like it."
Mods don't "represent" the forum, they mod it. It's a dirty job but someone's got to do it and expecting them to not only keep the place tidy for you but also to always be on their best behaviour and to have less rights and less enjoyment from the form than you do as a user is bullshit.
Mods aren't any less users than you are.
IMO Mods do a fabulous job of keeping this place relaxed and fairly sane.
I do understand they’ve been under a lot of pressure lately, who hasn’t.
And I’m happy to be called out and checked if my comments are off kilter or deemed “not in the spirit” I have no problems with it at all.
And, just to point back about logging in.. we did this 18mths ago and there are comments by other users in this thread.
I did a bit of research on the issue, and had a chat with some developers I know.. in the main because we have platforms at work where we require login/out protocols. It was an interesting conversation, I learned a lot from it.
But the logging out thing can't be replicated so can't be fixed so that's that.
I generally get logged out every time i visit.
I did a bit of research on the issue, and had a chat with some developers I know.. in the main because we have platforms at work where we require login/out protocols. It was an interesting conversation, I learned a lot from it.
Did you come up with a solution? (Genuine question, I'm not being an arse.)
From the long discussion and collective discoveries on that previous thread, I have a suspicion as to what may be causing it and thus potentially how to fix it - in some cases at least. I'm not convinced that there isn't more than one root cause due to different interactions between the forum and different client software platforms, or different user workflows, which is perhaps in part why it's been so elusive to track down. I'll reiterate - neither myself nor anyone at STW has been able to replicate the behaviour as far as I'm aware, which makes any issue incredibly challenging to diagnose.
When I went to visit STW towers I discussed our findings with the incumbent dev at the time and his reaction to my suggestion to making a change to the forum was as though I'd asked for the mortal soul of his first born. After spending the day there and from subsequent discussions I understand why now, and I've said this before - any minor change to the old forum codebase could have far-reaching effects. (I'm reminded of the DS9 episode Trials and Tribble-ations where O'Brian tries to do engineering work on the original Enterprise.)
I wonder whether it's worth revisiting this post-upgrade, now that the underlying code isn't a mess of dirty hacks any more. I'll run it by the team in the morning.
Actually, I have a question on the back of this. (Please, just respond if the answer is "yes," I don't need six pages of everyone telling me what they're using.)
Those affected by frequent logouts (and not just every two weeks which is the default behaviour): is there anyone who sees it on one device but not another? Eg, your phone logs out every day but your laptop is fine, or some such.
@Cougar as your going to be speaking to them in the morning do you think it would be possible to get an update on the 3 major things in the list and the progress on them? I saw Mark popped into the Ad thread but left very quickly. An update would go a long way at the moment.
>But the logging out thing can’t be replicated so can’t be fixed so that’s that.
Yep even though it happens to many users most days, it absolutely definitely doesn't exit.
and not just every two weeks which is the default behaviour
why?
I guess that is because if you have to login every 2 weeks it's doing exactly what it's always done and exactly what it's designed to do.
Yep even though it happens to many users most days, it absolutely definitely doesn’t exit.
You know, it's not helpful when folk trot out nonsense like this. It just gets peoples' backs up. No-one has ever claimed this, certainly not in recent years anyway.
why?
Search me, ask the people who wrote Wordpress.
do you think it would be possible to get an update on the 3 major things in the list
Which three major things are you referring to? (Again, genuine question, my top three may not be the same as yours.)
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Update: Monday 13th February
The forum will be worked on and alongside with other developments. The things that we are currently doing on the forum are:
1. Put a search back that will be useful and won’t slow the site
2. Improve the member history so you can find your posts and replies to your posts
3. Deal with the formatting issues.
We will be giving a brief update, hopefully at the end of each working day.
Thanks for your patience.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/our-forum/#post-9835143
Those ones....
I'd even suggest if the lines of comms are not going to go well as discussion threads perhaps making a survey monkey survey to ask users about things like login frequency, how they feel about the ads and updates, what they like and don't like etc. might give the tech and bosses a gauge on how things are going without having to wade through pages of threads.
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Ah yes, noted. Ta.
I'm not sure as a survey would be that useful. In so far as a) I'm reasonably sure that the result of "how do you feel about adverts" would be readily predictable without requiring a survey and b) the people most likely to respond to such a survey are the people who are equally most vocal on this thread. Which isn't meant as an dig, rather that the vocal heavy users are not necessarily representative of the userbase as a whole. Maybe, anyway, I could be wrong.
Maybe, anyway, I could be wrong.
Never know until you try... It also requires a little more creative thought around the questions - Like did you notice the takeover? did you think it was intrusive? did you class it as an advert?
It's a common complaint from the Mods that the same voices give feedback and always negative but unless STW seeks views to the changes it's making then they don't get any other information.
A question of have you cancelled or plan to cancel your sub would be interesting as anecdotally quite a few have already, if STW makes no attempt to find out why or address the reasons for that then they have no idea why people are leaving or which part of what they are doing isn't working.
But the logging out thing can’t be replicated so can’t be fixed so that’s that.
Because it's most likely a feature of the browser and devices you are using.
I generally get logged out every time i visit.
Probably got the cookies to expire at the end of the session.
That's exactly what I have on my work PC, and that's exactly the behaviour I observe, and expect to observe.
On the home PC I've whitelisted STW cookies (and other favourite sites), and set all other cookies to expire at session end. I remain logged in for "quite a while". I would have said at least a week, but it could be 2. Yesterday was one of those days I had to re-login. The cookie says it will expire on May 2nd (I'll try to remember to check back then). Actually there's a 12 hour discrepancy so I make it 2 weeks and 12 hours:
Created: Tuesday, 17 April 2018 at 20:35:58
Expires: Wednesday, 2 May 2018 at 08:35:58
One suspicion I have is how safari handles cookies that expire at session end. When *is* the end of a session on an IoS device? the browser runs forever, and never really exits. Same on android. If you clse all the windows, it's still a running but suspended process. On mine (android), I re-open an STW page and am still logged in. On another forum, there was a speculation that the IoS screensaver activating was enough to trigger a Safari session end and log you out. But of course it's the website's fault 😉
Not much use for diagnosing the issue. On my devices, I see exactly what I expect to see, because that's exactly how I have configured each browser.
It’s a common complaint from the Mods that the same voices give feedback and always negative
I don't think that's entirely fair. I can't speak for Drac but I have zero issues with negative feedback, so long as it's constructive.
"I don't like this, can it be changed please?" or "are you aware that this isn't working properly?" is a world apart from "well it's all shit, I run an ad blocker and I would have subscribed honest only I don't like the background image and I get logged out on purpose because it's more advertising revenue and and...." Doubly so when the same voices pop up on entirely unrelated threads all over the place just to have a pop at either the forum or "the mods" and then get all indignant when the straw finally breaks the camel's back and they get a sarcastic response.
I'd never complain about negative feedback, that's the primary way that things get flagged up as issues to be looked at. I just experience Catastrophic Patience Failure when people are dicks about it, perpetually and continually, it's like Chinese water torture.
A question of have you cancelled or plan to cancel your sub would be interesting as anecdotally quite a few have already
I can't see that ever being a question posed in that form, as it's basically a leading question. Maybe framed around a multiple choice - don't sub and never would / don't sub but am considering / do sub and plan to continue / do sub and am considering cancelling. Followed by a free-form explanation box. But again, it's only really of value if a broad cross-section of users respond. I've just looked at the Daily Poll, and with a readership in the millions it's had 603 votes so far, how many replies would a full-on survey get?
I’ve just looked at the Daily Poll, and with a readership in the millions it’s had 603 votes so far, how many replies would a full-on survey get?
OK, maybe that is a clue that the stats are not quite right there isn't it. (According the the 3 million post count on the front page that isn't many posts per visitor is it 😉 ) I wonder if that is individual page hits there as it took me about 8 pages to find a thread I wanted to post in today.
I guess you have all the answers there yourself so asking the users and people who pay cash to the site obviously isn't worth doing.
It was just a suggestion though and as you seem to be one of the only ways to communicate with STW these days maybe you could pass it along there.
to add the phrases
I can't see
I don't understand why
I don't get it
are really common in some of the more facepalm threads where people just seem unable to understand why other people don't view the world like they do. IN this case it could be that you don't think like others do, don't see the same things or have been told stuff the rest of us have not.
What has happened to the nice background we had yesterday behind the forum? Just back to boring grey(ish) now 🙁
One suspicion I have is how safari handles cookies that expire at session end. When *is* the end of a session on an IoS device?
This is the million dollar question, and it's essentially where I'd got to.
There's a quirk of the forum where in certain circumstances the "permanent" two week cookie gets replaced with a session cookie - essentially unticking the "remember me" box - which I suspect is the root cause. I trigger this quirk every other time I change pages so I should be getting logged out perpetually, however Chrome does something froody with session cookies which keeps them alive far longer than one might expect. I also never power down my PCs, just lock them and let power saving do its thing, so rather than having a 'remember me' cookie I have a perpetually refreshing session cookie.
Now, combine that with people either using the forum differently from me, or using browsers which handle sessions more aggressively, and that could well be where the issue lies. I have no way of knowing for sure but from the previous discussion I have a suspicion that the most common browser for affected users is Safari.
I guess you have all the answers there yourself so asking the users and people who pay cash to the site obviously isn’t worth doing.
I didn't say that it's not worth doing, I said that I wasn't sure if it'd be useful. My concern I suppose is those who are happy would ignore it and those who were unhappy would be all over it like a tramp on chips. That's just my opinion though. In fact, it's not even an opinion, I don't really have one either way, 'initial reaction' would be a better term.
In any case, given the workload currently I can't imagine it'd happen in the short term, but it might be a good idea in a little while once things are a bit straighter.
It was just a suggestion though and as you seem to be one of the only ways to communicate with STW these days maybe you could pass it along there.
You can always mail Mark or tech directly at mark@ or tech@ if you like, cut out the middle man. I can mention it of course.
Honestly cougar I doubt the words of a mere customer would be listened to these days 😉 After all the daily updates thread worked so well.
In any case, given the workload currently I can’t imagine it’d happen in the short term, but it might be a good idea in a little while once things are a bit straighter.
Yep the flat out workload line, unless every member of staff is coding the site, sorry I mean test server one of those could say hello. Purely as a customer looking in the efforts to fix the site seem to be blinding people to whats going on. Stopping for 1 day, stepping back and working out what is going on and if it's going to be worth it might help.
The lack of official communication is frustrating for sure. But playing devil's advocate, I can see why Mark may be reluctant to do so given the kicking I / Drac have been getting at times for trying to field questions. And ultimately it's not really my monkey. I said this a while back, but I suspect we'd see more interaction if the Big Hitter audience wasn't such a bear pit.
"We want information!"
"Here's some information."
*four pages of outrage about why it's all shit and I know better because my 12-year old nephew runs his own Pokemon Go website for six friends so how hard can it be?*
If I were Mark I'd have existed on a diet of Red Bull, Marlboro Lights and three hours' sleep a night for the last six months.
I agree constructive feedback is great the pointless digs are just well pointless.
Stop it Simon. 😂
On the upside, the fun sponge has found the emoji button at last so that should make for fewer arguments.
Oh, yeah:
🙂
(oh shite, I'm going to get a page of "where's the emoji button" replies now, aren't I...)
We could wind back through it all but you know as well as we do turning up when it's all gone so badly wrong and telling up it was all in the plan isn't the best way to start.
Anyway no point rehashing it but the longer he stays away, the longer questions are not answered, the worse it gets.
For some serious advice the "Kicking" may come down to flippant responses, telling people there isn't a problem, telling people ad's are not ads etc.
We will see more interaction if STW interacted, anything will increase it from the current level of ZERO.
Lets leave this one for now though and see what comes of asking how those 3 issues are going.
(oh shite, I’m going to get a page of “where’s the emoji button” replies now, aren’t I…)
💩
On the upside, the fun sponge has found the emoji button at last so that should make for fewer arguments.
Bah, I can't see them! The only way I could successful permanently remove the epileptic fit inducing flashing bastard advert (you know the one) was to remove all imagery from the site completely so I only see text now. Oh, and videos for some reason.
The lack of official communication is frustrating for sure.
I'm not sure that indifference is worse than arrogance.
For some serious advice the “Kicking” may come down to flippant responses, telling people there isn’t a problem, telling people ad’s are not ads etc.
"Flippant responses:" we're not going to get away from this (personally) I'm afraid. I have an overactive sarcasm gland (I have a note from my doctor) and in honesty I'm rarely all that serious. In non-mod posts I can't help using silly turns of phrase and I guess I kind of make the mistake of assuming that people know me when they don't so I think I sometimes get taken the wrong way. (I think Drac suffers at least as badly from this as I do and probably more so.) I think I already over-use smileys and perhaps it's still not enough?
That said, following on from my previous comments, if you keep poking a dog with a stick then you shouldn't really be all that surprised when it eventually barks. We're only human and I'm not prepared to put up with people sticking the boot in for the lols or outright lying. The alternative to an occasional snarky remark is me having a #ragequit on the site and never coming back. (Yeah, stop cheering at the back.)
"Telling people there isn't a problem:" I'm not sure what you're referring to here, unless it's not directed at me?
"ads are not ads:" Content promoting other content on the site isn't advertising. The BBC doesn't use advertising but it's happy to interrupt the Doctor Who credits with a mini Graham Norton telling you about his upcoming show. (I have of course cancelled my licence fee in protest.)
With the caveat that I know nothing about this officially as it's not been mentioned at all: The Spesh thing yesterday was a background image with an innocuous logo in the corner that I didn't even notice until I went looking for it. IMHO "advert free" does not mean "sponsored content free" or "background images free."
With the caveat that I know nothing about this officially as it’s not been mentioned at all: The Spesh thing yesterday was a background image with an innocuous logo in the corner that I didn’t even notice until I went looking for it. IMHO “advert free” does not mean “sponsored content free” or “background images free.”
Yep and a lot of people who help pay the bills didn't agree with you.
And here we are at the problem, your a buffer that in the end isn't really achieving much on this thread (sorry being blunt but said it a few times) either let people vent and for Marks sake hope that we all forget about it all and just accept he is right and we are all wrong.
Which really circles back to the point about people sticking the boot in, it's not your job so your getting the counter rage that happens when somebody cancels a flight, you have no idea whats going on, can't provide any useful information and just end up being in the firing line.
Cougar - is this yours?
You might well have a point there, Mike.
I will find the expalination I was given by our devs, it’s about 12mths since I read it but it did contain lots of useful information. Certainly for the secure site(s) we use there were a number of timeout/closeout protocols that ensured the user was logged out each time they visited the site(s)
Don’t forget I work in Banking, we have all sorts of security on user access so our dev teams are well versed with building something tightly ringfenced (no unicorns I promise)
As for logging my particular issues, no I don’t log them any more. I did 18mths ago because I was firstly interested in the why/how/buggerme why me scenarios.. but I stopped once I’d been given the “we can’t help/replicate and I pretty much gave up.
I use IOS devices, iPhone/iPad and Mac air all upto date software and rigidly backed up. Been using the same devices for at least two years now.
You do seem to go a helluva lot further trying to find out/sort out issues for us lot, that honestly doesn’t go unappreciated.
Since the upgrade and it’s “bedding in” period I’ve just sat back pretty much and let it all roll over my head and accepted the forum and site for what it is. There are plenty of others more vocal than I will ever be on someone else’s site that have lead the charge on issues...
Time for supper.
The Spesh thing yesterday was a background image with an innocuous logo in the corner that I didn’t even notice until I went looking for it. IMHO “advert free” does not mean “sponsored content free” or “background images free.”
But the very same image, with the logo, was used in an advert at the top of the page. So is that not an advert either? It looked like an advert and smelt like an advert. Also it wasn't so much that it was a surreptitious advert but the fact that when you hit refresh or moved to a new page the content, i.e. the threads and the news bar disappeared and you had the advert displayed for a couple of seconds before the content was overlaid again.
Drawing attention to or advertising other content on the site is fine, as you say it's no different from the BBC using a slot to promote another show, but do we really need multiple images per thread telling us that issue XXX of the magazine is now available? Take what I've written above and insert "MY USERNAME IS WHITESTONE" every ten words for a similar effect.