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All the teams are the same. They will all push into the grey areas of the rules as hard as they can and protest if others do it.
Ok, so the FIA have said the wings are legal, but they will keep monitoring things.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/articles/c3w6y694406o
All the teams are the same
Oh yeah, I meant all of them. Just some are louder than others.
Good that they're legal though, just hope McLaren do start fighting each other and Lando can properly challenge for the title. Think he needs to up his game though.
FIA sets rules to try and achieve something such as no moving aero.
All teams try to design their cars to stay within the rules but still achieve the desired effect.
If MOST teams find a similar way to 'bend' the rules then the FIA change the rules at the end of the season.
If ONE team finds a really clever way to bend the rules and the rest can't copy it quickly, or it is considered to have bent the rules too far, it will be 'clarified' mid-season.
There are lots of examples of both situations in the past - X Wing aero, McLaren brakes, blown diffusers, fan car etc
It looks like McLaren might finally be amenable to using team orders, with the delay being down to Andrea Stella simply not considering that the Driver’s WC is feasible
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/cgl2dl536nzo
Red bull know all about flexible front wings don’t they
Autosport is reporting that Newey's signing for Aston is about to be confirmed.
Re: Newey
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/articles/cy54vnn70veo
May or may not be premature but we won't know until Sept 10th ...
I suspect that his role may be more than just designer, possibly not team principle but definitely as more of a big picture guy, in a vaguely similar way to Niki Lauda at Mercedes perhaps
Have we done the Charles Leclerc crashing at Monaco video?
https://www.tiktok.com/@cameroncamasi/video/7411171627574037803
Oliver Bearman getting an early debut in the HAAS while Magnussen serves his ban.
How did we miss Newey being confirmed at AM (@ £30m per year!)?
https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/czrxgll23w9o
Won't be confirmed until Tuesday, Andrew Benson has a source at Aston Martin, or should that be had. Can see Eddie Jordan having something to say about the "exclusive".
Newey confirmed at aston
They just need some good drivers now.
Yes, what's the odds of Verstappen choosing to follow him if Red Bull can't give him a better car next year?
I agree...
• There's no point building a car around Alonso - at best he's got a season or two left.
• There's no point building a car around Stroll - because it will be a waste of Newey's brain.
Max is the only top-line driver potentially on the market and Newey knows what works for him.
I have to say this move leaves me totally cold.
Ferrari would have been exciting because there’d be a great story around Hamilton looking for an eighth title in red. Williams would have been glorious, paradoxically both an underdog story and the return of a titanic force.
But Aston just has the dank whiff of a wheelbarrow full of cash. They already had the facilities and the technical leaders to reach the top; there’s an underlying niggling sense that any “Managing Technical Partner” would need to do little more than not upset the already bountiful applecart—whereas at Williams there would be little doubt about where those apples grew from. It feels like Newey’s gone for the money and Stroll’s invested in making sure no-one else has him as much as in actually having him. Neither of which are wrong or unexpected in any way, but it feels like there’s no more depth to it than that. If you were writing the script for “Newey: The Movie” this wouldn’t be where it would go.
Fair play to them both, but meh.
I wonder how much input (both in advocacy for Newey and money) Honda had. After the McLaren debacle, they will be well aware that Newey and Verstappen were both key to their success. Honda must have had concerns over AM turning into a replay of the McLaren experience, but having Newey there should be some reassurance for them.
It will be interesting to see how Stroll and the AM story unfolds and compare it to Audi and the poor performing team they are buying and throwing money at. Who invests, plans and strategizes best in the coming years.
AM have the head start and are led by a strong individual.
Audi have an almost blanks sheet to start from but are led by a committee with the board of VW Group to answer to.
They just need some good drivers now.
That's probably a lot easier to achieve now Newey is confirmed. But both Alonso and Stroll are allegedly under contract to the end of 26 so there's plenty of time to see how they perform/who they can attract.
It will be interesting to see how Stroll and the AM story unfolds
I think AM will be a lot more successful.
Audi/Porsche entry has been a shit-show from day 1. Why would VW even entertain two competing makes under their wing - shows the level of senior management that makes Alpines management look sage-like!
I'd say that Aston will win a race before Audi do.
Very interesting inverview with Newey
Sounds like he didnt want to go to another top team or disrupt his family life so Ferrari was never going to be option.
Aston was the option where Newey feels the resources are there to turn the team into Championship contention in the next 5 years, and allows him to withdrawn into a consultancy role to work on special projects once he has finished with F1 (like Gordon Murray)
Why would VW even entertain two competing makes under their wing
It worked in LMP1
I agree with Baz....definitely not a fairy tale ending.
In terms of qualifying times, in 2024 up to Canada, the gaps between the teammates are
?auto=webp&s=7840ecf585c95edbbb5f8188100475835d6df01f" rel="nofollow" >Stroll has done ok compared to Alonso on that, and he's a decent benchmark. As someone said above he's never going to be a world champion, but I don't think he's as bad as people make out, yes he's a 'pay-driver' but that doesn't automatically equal terrible, he's a reasonable midfield runner.
Maybe I meant to write that in the Newey thread, reading two at once is getting confusing
It will be interesting to see who Stroll gets as his new team leader and more to the point if newey comes up with a car the team leader can win in and stroll can’t
From a tatical perspective this could work well. Top driver wins the WDC so all the pr and publicity the sponsors want. A poor second driver means you’re not at the pointy end of the WCC so don’t get budget cfd or aero time deducted. It might be a nice sweet spot to sit in
A poor second driver means…
…that I fell off my chair when you posted something that wasn’t about Russell being a poor second driver.
something that wasn’t about Russell
Just wait for his prediction of the AM '27 drivers - Max #1, GR #2 ::)
that I fell off my chair when you posted something that wasn’t about Russell being a poor second driver.
Dont take the bait…. Don’t take the bait……
andrewhFree Member
In terms of qualifying times, in 2024 up to Canada, the gaps between the teammates areStroll has done ok compared to Alonso on that, and he’s a decent benchmark. As someone said above he’s never going to be a world champion, but I don’t think he’s as bad as people make out, yes he’s a ‘pay-driver’ but that doesn’t automatically equal terrible, he’s a reasonable midfield runner.
It's nothing to do with his pace, although that is also average at best. It's his piss poor situational awareness.
Can someone explain hown Aston Martin (Stroll Snr) can apparently invest hundreds of millions of dollars into new facilities (including a new wind tunnel) without breaching cost cap rules?
I seem to remember reading recently that Williams were wanting to update some their factory facilities and had to ask the other teams to give them special dispensation to do so.
Can someone explain hown Aston Martin (Stroll Snr) can apparently invest hundreds of millions of dollars into new facilities (including a new wind tunnel) without breaching cost cap rules?
They started spending big a couple of years before the cost cap came in. Windtunnels are also excluded from the CapEx cost cap.
According to the GSA website the following are excluded from the cost cap calculations
Driver salaries
Compensation for the three highest-paid staff members
Travel expenses
Marketing expenditures
Property and legal costs
Entry and license fees
Activities unrelated to F1 or road cars
Parental and sick leave payments
Employee bonuses and staff medical benefits
.
However, with, for example, most staff salaries being within it and bonuses excluded, transportation being within in but travel excluded, you can bet the lawyers and accountants are as much at the top of their game as the designers are, arguing the case to exclude as much as possible. (See the RB overspend on sandwiches in 2021...)
Done a bit of reading....apparently new factories are excluded from the cost cap.
Williams managed to get an increase in the budget cap of £15m of Capex.....so they could build a brand new factory for 100s of millions and not be capped, but only 15m to upgrade existing.
so they could build a brand new factory for 100s of millions and not be capped, but only 15m to upgrade existing.
No point building a new factory when you'd just have to put all of the old stuff in it though.
Eddie Jordan must be feeling pretty smug having Adrian Newey join the team that he started back in the day and on a deal that he negotiated.
Can someone explain hown Aston Martin (Stroll Snr) can apparently invest hundreds of millions of dollars into new facilities (including a new wind tunnel) without breaching cost cap rules?
Capital expenditure isn't covered by the budget cap, AIUI. The top six teams have a capex limit of $45 million over a rolling four year period, the bottom four have $65 million. I don't know how they deal with teams like McLaren who sold their premises but then leased them back.
If I was a betting man, I'd put money on Max going to Aston in 2026. Lots of money. Stroll Snr seems the kind of guy Verstappen Snr would get on with.
would be entertaining to see if he plays nicely with the bosses boy
Verstappen probably has it written into his contract to have a team mate who is no-where near him.
He'd be fine with Stroll jr
TwodogsFull Member
If I was a betting man, I’d put money on Max going to Aston in 2026. Lots of money. Stroll Snr seems the kind of guy Verstappen Snr would get on with.
To replace Lance? Unfortunately I doubt it. And it won't be to replace Fred as he's contracted until the end of '26.
And it won’t be to replace Fred as he’s contracted until the end of ’26.
this is fixable with money which doesnt seem to be in short supply here
They'll put Lance in WEC. And who's Fred?
I don't think Stroll's a bad driver TBH. You can't be terrible if you manage to put a Williams on the podium after just 8 races in your first season, and the season he won in F3 he was so far ahead he'd won with something like 5 races still to go. The standard in F1 is so high, he looks totally average, that and the Aston Martin (and racing point before that) are/were very mediocre cars
dakuan
this is fixable with money which doesnt seem to be in short supply here
Yes, but only if Alonso is amenable to taking money to exit the contract. From the interviews etc I've read, it's very clear he wants a final championship and I bet he's not short of cash.
Besides, Adrian specifically cited working with him and/or Lewis as pre-retirement goals.
Mclaren confirm Piastri now in supporting role for Lando
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1834260178838962645
If he was actually good enough he wouldn't need that.
If he wasn't good enough he wouldn't be in a position where it would make a difference.
McLaren have lost titles before because the drivers have been taking points off each other, 2007 springs to mind. I'm pretty sure Hamilton and Alonso were both good enough
McLaren have lost titles before because the drivers have been taking points off each other, 2007 springs to mind. I’m pretty sure Hamilton and Alonso were both good enough
Actually , just to add to my earlier point. Raikenen was given preference over Massa in the latter stages of the season, much as Norris is now (a couple of races too late IMO) but the following year the boot was on the foot, McLaren may likewise swap next year if Piastri is in a position to challenge and Norris isn't.
I can kind of see why they did what they did in 2007, both drivers were in with a shout so give them equal chances. This was fine in, for instance, 1988, where there was no one from another team in contention, and equality was fine last year when neither driver had much of a chance of a title, but this year is different. I know Oscar could still win it this year, but it's definitely time to start piling eggs into Norris's basket.
McLaren have lost titles before because the drivers have been taking points off each other, 2007 springs to mind. I’m pretty sure Hamilton and Alonso were both good enough
True, they were both good enough, Hamilton as a rookie was way better than Norris is currently. They did technically still win the constructors championship if you ignore the disqualification and the $100m fine 🙂
If he was actually good enough he wouldn’t need that.
It's not that simple though is it? Pastry's overtake at Monza caused Norris to slow enough to let LeClerc get past as well (to avoid damaging the cars, like he was told). I think Mclaren probably didn't mind their drivers racing each other, but when the actions of one of your drivers gets you from a [pretty certain] 1-2 finish to a 2-3 finish instead, you've got to have firmer rules than 'mango'.
If he was actually good enough he wouldn’t need that.
To be fair to Norris he pretty much says the same thing.
Reading what Piastri, Norris and Stella have said, I think they’re now taking a decent stance on it: it won’t be weekly messages of “Lando is faster than you”, but clearly if they were to find themselves in the same situation as in Hungary now they wouldn’t swap back. In between those extremes are myriad other situations which they’ll play by ear—but with the confidence that if they do feel it’s appropriate to do something (or to not do something) then everyone’s on board.
nickc
I think Mclaren probably didn’t mind their drivers racing each other, but when the actions of one of your drivers gets you from a [pretty certain] 1-2 finish to a 2-3 finish instead, you’ve got to have firmer rules than ‘mango’.
Posted 2 hours ago
You're making it sound like Oscar was racing really hard and forced him wide or something.
Norris made two mistakes which basically equated to opening the door then standing there holding it open for him to go through! Okay so he avoided any chance of damage, but come on! A little bit of assertiveness when you're challenging for the championship please!
Norris made two mistakes
I think Norris has recognised that Piastri did a great job on the overtake, you can blame Norris for that, but they're both really good drivers and at that point, there was no other instructions other than don't bend the cars, Piastri obviously took the gamble that Norris wouldn't fight that hard and he was right. I think Norris has also said that had he defended a bit more robustly and braked a little later there was a pretty good chance of them hitting each other. I think he was damned if he did, and 6 of the other.
The upshot though while it was a personally good result for Piastri, is that they're still not ahead in constructors and Norris has a harder job taking advantage of the better performance they have over the RB. At what point does the management at McLaren have to make it obvious?
If he was actually good enough he wouldn’t need that.
Lando has outqualified Oscar 14-2, and beaten him in races 10-6. So there's that.
Twodogs
Lando has outqualified Oscar 14-2, and beaten him in races 10-6. So there’s that.
Yes, his raw pace is excellent, and superior to Oscar's at at the moment. He just needs to get on top of the mistakes really. He's lost probably 30-40 points in bad starts/opening laps. Barcelona, Hungary, Spa, Monza. Netherlands he won convincingly but again, bad start.
I think not having to fight his team mate will help him a lot.
Bit of a screw up by Williams
Great work from Colapinto - I wonder if Vowles is looking at Carlos Sainz contract and wondering if he can drop him and save a few quid!! 🙂
But also a shame for Colapinto - he could do a great season end and have nowhere to go for a couple of seasons.
Unless we have a SC tomorrow its going to be a recovery drive from Lando to get back into the top 10 and scrape a few points.
Bit of a double whammy as Max should extend his championship lead and Oscar to close the gap to Lando, which makes backing Lando for the rest of the year more difficult.
Also, if Charles can win that would take him to similar points to Lando.
Good to see that Williams decision to go with Colapinto is paying off.
Quali. Checo has done a pretty good job, right up there. This track does seem to suit him.
Decent position from Bearman. Collopinto has gone faster than Albon and not crashed, so that’s a big improvement on Sargent.
Big oof for this one
So they didn't forget it then, looks like he was still trying to get it out and Albon was released a second or two early?
The best thing Piastri can do to help Norris is stop Verstappen winning the race, ideally by winning it himself. I'm sure he'll delighted to help out if he can
andrewh
So they didn’t forget it then, looks like he was still trying to get it out and Albon was released a second or two early?
Yeah the engineer was quite close to the rear wheel, it could have been another Ferrari style broken leg situation.
Hamilton starting from pitlane after taking a new power unit.
https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/status/1835224181442535607
That was messy!
Good points for Williams though!