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“Surprised to see Kimi take Woody’s car and not Lewis’s though.”
I think that had been scheduled some time ago, his next outing will be in Lewis’s car.
Exactly.
Antonelli confirmed at Merc. Don't really get that given his F2 performance and the test but good to see some new blood at the front!
Antonelli confirmed at Merc. Don’t really get that given his F2 performance and the test but good to see some new blood at the front!
I appluad Merc for promoting within but its a big risk, Antonelli didnt compete in F3, he hasnt even completed his first season in F2 yet, there's a reason the big teams tend to farm out upcoming drivers to the teams in the lower field (Rebull- Cash app, Ferrari-Hass, Merc used to use-Williams) i wonder what will happen if he's not upto the job half way through next season, will they let Mick in the car?
Williams seem to be cutting all ties with Merc as they can (bar using their engine) since James took over as team principal, also no longer taking paid drivers and concentrating on getting the best non paid drivers they can and developing within which hopefully will help them return to the top
I wonder how George feels about Antoelli being promoted straight into the Merc seat given how long it took George to get his Merc drive whilst at Williams, even when Bottas was underperforming in the Merc, Once George proved himself as a super sub for Hamilton Bottas seat was his, Antoelli hasnt done any of this and has been parachuted into the Merc for next year
Clearly Toto knows george is a good number 2 driver. There are no top drivers available for next year so it’s not that much of a risk. Who else would be out in the car?
I know we shouldn't read too much into practice sessions, but Colapinto seems to be right up on the pace. Shame to see old guys like Ricciardo, Perez, Bottas, etc. holding onto seats when there are younger drivers who deserve a chance.
Just listened to the Chequered Flag podcast, there's an interview with Toto in which he mentions the time they were talking to Verstappen in 2014, and they lost him because Red Bull had a seat available. I don't think he wanted to make that mistake again.
That qualifying must be setting off fire alarms in Red Bull's management. McLaren, Ferrari, and Merc in front with 0.2 seconds separating the top six, then Red Bull half a second behind. And that's at a track where Red Bull expected to be right at the front. At that rate they'll lose the constructor's championship in the next few races and Max's lead in the driver's championship will evaporate. Losing Newey is one thing, but Max won't stay around if he thinks there are better options elsewhere. My guess is that Piastri's lawyers and McLaren's lawyers will be charging triple-time working out how much it would cost to buy him out of his contract and put Max into a McLaren for next year.
At that rate they’ll lose the constructor’s championship in the next few races
I'm fully expecting them to lose their lead by the end of tomorrow, and to be third behind Ferrari a few races after that
I’m fully expecting them to lose their lead by the end of tomorrow, and to be third behind Ferrari a few races after that
Yes, I forgot that the constructor's championship was so close, was thinking it was the same as the driver's, at 7o points. It's only 30 points so could be gone by tomorrow. But Perez did his job today so replacing drivers isn't going to fix the problem. Can't see Max staying around if the team can't give him a competitive car.
Does anyone still believe Red Bull weren’t the ones running that braking device?
And Max had the door open at Mercedes - every other door is closed for a good while.
And Max had the door open at Mercedes – every other door is closed for a good while
There are always buyout clauses in contracts. If Verstappen wanted to go to Merc or McLaren, it would just come down to paying off Russell or Piastri to swap to Red Bull.
At that rate they’ll lose the constructor’s championship in the next few races
If they finish the race in grid order, then McLaren will be ahead in the constructors tomorrow.
It'll also be interesting to see Max and Lewis next to each other on the grid tomorrow...
My guess is that Piastri’s lawyers and McLaren’s lawyers will be charging triple-time working out how much it would cost to buy him out of his contract and put Max into a McLaren for next year.
I'd say that Zack would rather win with the drivers he has than swap for Max.
In '26 its all about who can develop the best engine. Can RB Powertrains produce a competitive engine or do you go with Honda and Newey to Aston?
Red Bull's woes are the result of Newey leaving, since handing his notice in, the development of the car has floundered, they're running a mix of new and old floors to sort the problem out. Can't see Verstappen being in a Red Bull after 2025, if not sooner.
I’d say that Zack would rather win with the drivers he has than swap for Max.
I'd say that Zak is a brutally pragmatic businessman who would swap Piastri for Verstappen in a second. Same goes for Toto and Russell. If Verstappen wanted to drive for those teams next year, they'd make it happen.
Based on the last few McLaren starts I'd still put 50p on a Ferrari or Woody leading at the end of the first lap. McLaren did seem to have the race pace on Fri and the new surface might throw up some differences in strategy - could be a fun race.
I’d say that Zak is a brutally pragmatic businessman who would swap Piastri for Verstappen in a second. Same goes for Toto and Russell. If Verstappen wanted to drive for those teams next year, they’d make it happen.
Maybe, but then there’s the Jos factor. Do people really want to get involved with him given what he’s been like with Christian Horner?
Red Bull’s woes are the result of Newey leaving, since handing his notice in, the development of the car has floundered,
A couple of the pundits on Sky today were saying that Newey’s value extended far beyond just the car design, and that he had very valuable input in many of the other decisions at Red Bull, including strategy. Make of that what you will, but they definitely have taken a turn for the worse since he handed his notice in.
Thinking about that , it will be interesting to see what role he has at Aston Martin, it may be more than just the designer
Thinking about that , it will be interesting to see what role he has at Aston Martin, it may be more than just the designer
Did I miss something? Has he been confirmed at Aston Martin or is that just speculation?
The cynic in me also wonders about the whole Horner/Verstappen thing. Prior to this, there was speculation (especially in light of SP’s performance) that it was just how special MV was that RB were where they were. Now we’re seeing that without the car, sure MV is still better than SP, but he’s certainly not THAT much better. The invincible MV has suddenly just been rather openly wounded.
Did I miss something? Has he been confirmed at Aston Martin or is that just speculation?
No official announcement, just a lot of F1 types saying it’s a very poorly kept secret at this point
Now we’re seeing that without the car, sure MV is still better than SP, but he’s certainly not THAT much better
Umm....
I meant the last 4 races where MV has been notably vocal about the car and he and Perez have been closer. It initially seemed that the 2024 RB was as good as the 23 car with both doing well, but as they started to develop the car, it seemed to suit MV more and Perez a lot less. Now, from the onboards, it’s much more edgy and both are driving similar. It’s qualifying which sets them apart. Perez has always been 4-7/10ths down on MV and that margin is now sufficient to put him well into the midfield where SP can catch but not overtake. MV qualifying higher holds position again, not making much inroads into the top 6 during a race unless he starts there.
It’s qualifying which sets them apart. Perez has always been 4-7/10ths down on MV
Which is why any team manager in the field would sign Max at the drop of a hat. The tyres can't handle more than a couple of laps at full pace so the race skill is managing tyre wear rather than outright speed.
Qualifying is where you see the drivers' outright pace compared to their teammates and Max is supremely good at qualifying in a car that seems to be quite tricky to set up.
I’d say that Zak is a brutally pragmatic businessman who would swap Piastri for Verstappen in a second
Not on the face of this qualy. It looks like both Lando and Pastry are wringing everything from that car, Lando a bit more.
Pay £30million to improve a 1-2 to what?
Pay £30million to improve a 1-2 to what?
Sponsors would pay a lot to have a multiple world champion in the car. Piastri seems to be a very good driver but Verstappen is one of the all-time greats. Right now, McLaren have the best all-round car but there's no guarantee that they will dominate next year so signing the best driver on the grid would be an easy decision if he wanted to join the team.
Verstappen is one of the all-time greats
Nah, he’s got a way to go to prove that
I think it's fair to say that he's one of the all time greats in the same way that Alonso is also thought of in the same way despite only having 2 world championships.
Alonso, yes - Max, not yet.
Alonso, yes – Max, not yet.
Not sure why, Verstappen has shown himself to be every bit the driver Alonso ever has been, which is why he is widely considered to be one of the greats and talked about in the same terms as Schumacher, Hamilton and the rest
Same kind of reason that Schumacher's legacy is tainted really - he's been a raging success in a team that would never let the second driver beat him, and he's used some questionable tactics. Bit like Vettel, maybe - sure, four times world champion but never replicated that success elsewhere. If he goes to a different team and keeps making his team mates look average, then fair enough.
Sponsors would pay a lot to have a multiple world champion in the car
But Zak would like to hang on to sponsor money, and not spaff it and more on a stroppy dutchman.
You could get 10 Piastris for Max money; which is more value when Lando is faster than both?
Same kind of reason that Schumacher’s legacy is tainted really – he’s been a raging success in a team that would never let the second driver beat him, and he’s used some questionable tactics.
Nelson Piquet was his teammate at Benneton, Schumacher trounced him. The reason he was given number 1 status at Benneton and then Ferrari was because he was faster than all his teammates. If Irvine or Barrichello had turned out to be faster then Schumacher, they would have earned number 1 status, but Schumacher was faster than them so they had to settle for number 2 status.
However, Schumacher often took things too far and his legacy will always be tainted by crashing into Hill and Villeneuve.
Bit like Vettel, maybe
Seb is the classic example of a multiple WDC who, while obviously very good, doesn't quite sit on the same pedestal as the true greats. Seb excelled at driving the blown diffuser cars but there was always a slight question over his wheel to wheel racing and ability to adapt when the car wasn't quite right (awaits counter examples). But he's probably still one of the few recent WDCs that'd be fun to hang out with.
Nelson Piquet was his teammate at Benneton, Schumacher trounced him.
39 year old Piquet outscored Schumacher in their races together at Benetton.
The reason he was given number 1 status at Benneton and then Ferrari was because he was faster than all his teammates. If Irvine or Barrichello had turned out to be faster then Schumacher, they would have earned number 1 status, but Schumacher was faster than them so they had to settle for number 2 status.
Oh, he was super-quick, no doubt, but neither Benetton and Ferrari would have allowed a team mate (who were picked to support and not challenge him) to beat him - Herbert recounts being quicker in a session than Schumacher and from then on he was denied access to Schumacher's data. Contrast that with an Alonso or a Hamilton who don't care who's in the other car. TBF, I would guess Max isn't that bothered who's in the other car, but his team is, I think.
Contrast that with an Alonso or a Hamilton who don’t care who’s in the other car. TBF, I would guess Max isn’t that bothered who’s in the other car, but his team is, I think.
The falling out at McLaren was because Alonso believed that he should be given priority over a rookie. He joined the team expecting number 1 status.
Part of the reason Merc kept Bottas so long was because Hamilton wanted a teammate who didn't upset him the way Rosberg did.
It's widely believed that Red Bull didn't want to take Sainz back because of friction between the Verstappen and Sainz camps at Torro Rosso.
All the drivers care who's in the other car and will do whatever they can to get someone they want.
The falling out at McLaren was because Alonso believed that he should be given priority over a rookie. He joined the team expecting number 1 status.
Well - that, and his perception the team working more for rookie Hamilton than they did for reigning world champion him. Didn't McLaren protest Alonso at the Hungarian GP in 2007, or something?
Alonso's had, I think, four world champions as team mates, Hamilton's had three.
Another great race.
Charles pulls of the strategic gamble to win in front of the Tifosi. Must have been a great atmosphere at Monza.
Bold pass by Piastri on lap 1 and although its not great for Landos title aspirations, its good to see a team allowing their drivers to race.
RedBull continue to be on the backfoot (and i'm expecting that to remain the same for Baku & Singapore), so Max is going to have to grind out the results to hang onto this championship.
Also a solid race debut for Colapinto bringing it home in 12th.
That wasn't much of a gamble for Ferrari as they had nothing to lose!
Looks like Kevin Magnussen is going to have to sit Baku out. Good news for Bearman!
https://youtube.com/shorts/i5SFyeUQ55M?si=Y9VuGK7cFxRrh7W-
Wonder, come the end of the season, if Lando will be looking elsewhere if he misses the WDC by less than the number of points he’s missed by the team not favouring him when they could have switched cars. That’s 10 now.
I know, it's baffling to me that the team isn't doing more to support his bid for the drivers championship, it makes them look like they're a less than serious team
Everyone criticises Max for not having an equal driver in the second RedBull and that it dimmishes his achievements as a WC, if he hasnt beaten another WC in the same car.
If Lando wants to be WC then he needs to beat Piastri first, who was the faster of the 2 drivers today.
Everyone criticises Max for not having an equal driver in the second RedBull and that it dimmishes his achievements as a WC, if he hasnt beaten another WC in the same car.
Honestly, I think that's more on Red Bull than Max.
Also a solid race debut for Colapinto bringing it home in 12th.
Which puts him 21st in the champiosnhip, one place ahead of Bottas...
Agree it's madness not swapping Piastri and Norris on the last lap, ten points is huge, even the three from this time could make a difference.
Wonder, come the end of the season, if Lando will be looking elsewhere
And go where? Merc is full, Ferrari is full, Red Bull are struggling. McLaren have always had a policy of letting their drivers compete. If Norris wants to be world champion, he has to beat his teammate.
And go where?
not necessarily for ‘25.
McLaren have always had a policy of letting their drivers compete
By all means start the season like that and see who emerges in top, but at this stage in the season, 2/3rds of the way through, Oscar is not going to catch Max, so it makes sense to put all your energy into Lando, who has much more of a chance to.
Assuming they win the WCC, they’ll look pretty daft doing it P2 and 3, when they could have done it P1 and 4/5, and all the kudos/marketing opportunity that brings…
I think there is a bit of needle starting between LN and OP. I feel Monza was a follow on from Hungary and OP has learned that he needs to assert himself strongly. I suspect Lando wants Oscar to play the diligent number 2 role but Piastri with some justification sees himself as an equal. Lando clearly trying to put Oscar in his place in Hungary certainly took the shine off his maiden win I think that will be remembered.
I agree with @Chew, if Lando can't defend from his team mate, McLaren are going to look pretty silly shouting 'multi21' into the mic at every race.
Looks like Kevin Magnussen is going to have to sit Baku out.
Honestly he seems like a nice enough guy off the track, but an absolute walloper when he gets behind the wheel. I think these are going to be his last F1 races, I can't imagine any other team will ever employ him.
I agree with @Chew, if Lando can’t defend from his team mate…
They’re all going to look stupid when that defence/attack is too strong, taking them both out of a race because they’ve been allowed to race. ‘Papaya rules’ will go out the window when it gets properly elbows out.
Seems all that ‘think of the rest of the season’ they were pleading with Lando in Hungary should have been ignored.
Seems all that ‘think of the rest of the season’ they were pleading with Lando in Hungary should have been ignored.
Quite
Great race. Bold call by Ferrari
standard result for merc. Hamilton goes forward from qualifying whilst Russel goes backwards
They’re all going to look stupid when that defence/attack is too strong, taking them both out of a race because they’ve been allowed to race. ‘Papaya rules’ will go out the window when it gets properly elbows out.
Seems all that ‘think of the rest of the season’ they were pleading with Lando in Hungary should have been ignored.
I can imagine Zak Brown being very matter of fact about it towards Lando - basically if you can't win it on your own you don't deserve the title.
As long as McLaren bring home the constructors title that will be reward enough.
@tomhoward. I know every race Russell finds away to turn a good qualifying position to a bad result and is made to look mediocre by his team leader. I wonder how is going to explain hitting the slalom poles at the first chicane smashing his wing so badly
The good news is we now have a fight for the WDC championship. I’m expecting McLaren will now in the constructors. Fingers crossed Norris can close down the gap to Max
I heard that Piastri had said he'd keep racing Lando while there was still a mathematical chance of him (OP) winning the WDC. Currently he's 106 points off Max with 200+ points available for the rest of the season. If Oscar can keep out scoring Max then Lando is on his own for a while yet.
I think these are going to be his last F1 races, I can’t imagine any other team will ever employ him
I like Magnussen and Ricciardo and Bottas, they seem like they might actually be fun people to hang out with but they've all had a decent shot and none of them are going to be world champion. It would be good for the sport if they were all replaced by young drivers next year. Same with Perez and Hulkenberg.
They’re all going to look stupid when that defence/attack is too strong
Oh I agree 100%. Morally they've got two really strong drivers, they should let them race. Logically; pick one for the no1 driver spot and they'll win both drivers and constructors. It's what RB/Merc have done, and there's a reason they've been to two best teams recently. That used to be the McLaren way, they need to resolve that sharpish.
Logically; pick one for the no1 driver spot and they’ll win both drivers and constructors. It’s what RB/Merc have done
Merc have never had a number 1 driver. Both drivers have always been free to compete until one is out of contention for the championship.
Piastri is currently 106 points behind Verstappen with eight races to go, so 200 points for regular race wins and 8 points for fastest laps, plus three sprint races, so 24 points for wins. That's a total of 232 points still available, so too early to ask him to give up title hopes.
Oh I agree 100%. Morally they’ve got two really strong drivers, they should let them race. Logically; pick one for the no1 driver spot and they’ll win both drivers and constructors. It’s what RB/Merc have done, and there’s a reason they’ve been to two best teams recently. That used to be the McLaren way, they need to resolve that sharpish.
Logically yes, but that doesn't take into account OP's ego. He'll not like the idea of being a #2. That needs to be managed carefully
Seems all that ‘think of the rest of the season’ they were pleading with Lando in Hungary should have been ignored.
Yup!
Pretty stupid move by Oscar if you consider the big picture. That move led to having to implement sub-optimal strategy which ultimately cost them them the 1-2 and being 1st in the Constructors. Made them look a bit stupid.
Lando is going to be much more 'elbows out' and I foresee a papaya crash in the future with Lando needing to asset himself as not to be messed with ala MV vibes.
Also Lando isn't going to be minded to support his team mate in future when called on.
Good race that! Surprised Mclaren didn't see that coming after GR pulled off the same strategy in Spa. Great job by Ferrari/Charles, loved seeing the tifosi running down the track to the podium.
Starting to see a bit of a cut-throat side to Piastri now, he's got a bit of a spring in his step since his win. Lando needs to definitively stamp that out with a couple of dominant performances if he wants the team to back him. Right now I don't think he's doing enough, he really really needs to get on top of his starts.
Pretty stupid move by Oscar if you consider the big picture.
But whose big picture?
It was a stunning pass. Ballsy, precise, ruthlessly effective, and a clear statement to anyone who needed it. He forced Norris to back down and threw him to the Ferraris. It did Piastri’s big picture a world of good.
The “sub-optimal strategy” seemed to be a close call and also seemed to hinge on faith in the tyres, which Piastri and/or the McLaren seemed not to be able to conserve as well as Leclerc and the Ferrari. I would lean slightly more towards Piastri leaning on them too much, given that Norris was catching him (and not for the first time when tyre management has been a factor). He was lucky that Norris is still prone to errors and fluffed it at the Roggia.
Ultimately I think Norris still needs to fix his errors, Piastri still needs to improve his race management, and McLaren still need to have more trust in their numbers.
Great drive by Leclerc, though. He may not be a consistent Sunday driver but when he delivers he delivers.
The “sub-optimal strategy” seemed to be a close call and also seemed to hinge on faith in the tyres, which Piastri and/or the McLaren seemed not to be able to conserve as well as Leclerc and the Ferrari.
Exactly. It was the safe strategy and McLaren were better off sticking with a safe strategy. Ferrari took a risky bet which paid off for Leclerc but not for Sainz. Just because the Ferrari could make the tyres last that long doesn't mean that the McLaren could. McLaren's priority is scoring points toward the constructor's championship and they settled for a conservative strategy that took a decent chunk out of Red Bull. It's not the strategic disaster that a lot of people seem to believe.
Lando’s little first corner slide. That would’ve been enough for OP to decide that he was having a pop
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1830679082226327818
Red Bull and Ferrari complaining that Merc and McLaren wings are flexing too much.
Seems nothing will be done this season though. The FIA are already monitoring front wings in case they need to change regs for next season.
FIA have already said that all front wings comply with their current load tests and are legal.
FIA have already said that all front wings comply with their current load tests and are legal.
The point is that the load tests can be changed if it's believed that teams are pushing flex too far. Red Bull and Ferrari will be hoping to have stricter load tests introduced this season to force Merc and McLaren to redesign their wings to comply.
They can change them mid-season - but there are only 3 months of the season left. And this has been rumbling on for months.
So forcing teams to redesign the front wings and then everything behind it to cope with the new airflow would take a long time and be massively expensive.
the-muffin-man
And this has been rumbling on for months.
RB in particular have been complaining about this for a while. The interesting thing for me about this latest update is Ferrari getting on side with RB.
The interesting thing for me about this latest update is Ferrari getting on side with RB.
All the teams are ruthlessly opportunistic on things like this. If a rival figures out a trick, they'll do anything they can to have it banned. When they figure out a trick, they'll swear that it's all above board. It's just how it's done.
forcing teams to redesign the front wings and then everything behind it to cope with the new airflow would take a long time and be massively expensive.
The result would be that the teams have to make the wings less flexy. If the flex isn't performance enhancing (which would be illegal), then the airflow downstream wouldn't change and there would be no need to change anything else. If they have to redesign the whole car because they can't use a flexy wing then the wing is illegal.
Flex isn't illegal - they all flex to some extent to enhance performance. And the FIA have already said all cars comply with the rules as written now.
"The FIA said in July, when this emerged, that the data would be used to enhance its understanding of bodywork flexibility for future regulations - rather than changing anything this season."
I’m quite certain all the teams run flexi wings and dance around making the just stiff enough to pass the load tests as written. Whether some teams have been able to take it further to better control how the wings flex under various load or cornering angles is anyone’s guess
Flex isn’t illegal – they all flex to some extent to enhance performance.
It's impossible to make a perfectly rigid structure so they have to flex. However, moveable aerodynamic surfaces are not legal so the teams are not supposed to be deliberately designing them to flex for aerodynamic benefit. Of course, that can't really be stopped so there are static load tests to check the amount of flex. On top of that, the amount of flex is meant to be linear in relation to load. If you put a 200 kg load on the wing, it should flex twice as much as with a 100 kg load.
What would be illegal would be to engineer a wing that flexed in a non-linear way so that it dumped downforce and drag at high speed but then reverted to a high downforce profile at low speed (which is exactly what these cars need to get balance at both high and low speeds). All the cars have passed the load tests so none of them are illegal but the FIA can change the load tests if they think teams have found some clever way to get around the intent of the rules (which is that moveable aero surfaces are not allowed).
Yes - and they may change the load tests for next season!!! Not this season though.
They can change the load tests mid season if they think teams are doing anything suspicious.
In fact, they tightened things up almost exactly a year ago - so mid season and one team possibly had to redesign components to comply. If they think someone's being clever, they don't have to wait until next year to clamp down on it.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/everything-you-need-to-know-about-f1s-wing-rules-clampdown/