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Yes, replicating the McLaren brake steer functionality without checking that it was legal first would be pretty dumb, especially for Red Bull who had an utterly dominant car last year.
I dunno… it’s nothing like the McLaren system in its implementation, and if you were confident that it was legal, or at least that it wasn’t unambiguously illegal, then you’d go for it. And while they may have been dominant, stable regs inevitably mean convergence: other teams would have only had to figure out their suspension and some aero details over the winter and a clear advantage could dissolve immediately. Any team worth their salt is going to be chasing loopholes, obviously.
More stories about today re Merc hoping to sign Max for 2026 (they've apparently given up on getting him for 2025).
So, assuming they sign Antonelli for 25, if they do get Max for 26, who do they get rid of?
Would be a kick in the teeth for GR, who was probably expecting to be golden boy for a few years when Lewis leaves
GR to Redbull?
Doohan confirmed for Alpine next season...
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/alpine-promotes-jack-doohan-2025-f1-race-seat/
Another Williams car fit for the scrap heap. Touching the grass in the wet isn't a great idea.
ooof. I imagine they can’t wait for Carlos to arrive
Jesus wept, expected it to be on the outside on corner exit or something. Not cutting a corner. That’s like something I would do
I know it’s easy to be an armchair expert but christ, that’s absolutely amateur hour.
Fun fact: all of us here are closer to Pérez in world championship points than Pérez is to Verstappen…
Saw this on PH. 3m 10s in lip read the Williams mechanic watching Sergeant bin it for the umpteenth time
Just seen the onboard. Turns out he can put it on the grass coming out of the previous turn
Albon qualifies 8th!!
Norris on pole, ahead of Verstappen, Piastri, Woody.
Albon qualifies 8th!!
Looks like he could be disqualified as their new floor doesn't appear to be legal.
Confirmed...
3 place penalty for Lewis too.
Sounds like Williams are phoning round to see who's free to pop in that seat asap!
So, assuming they sign Antonelli for 25, if they do get Max for 26, who do they get rid of?
That’s going to be one of totos easiest decisions. He will get rid of George in a heartbeat. It’s not as if he is covering himself in glory at the moment.
chrismac
Full Member
So, assuming they sign Antonelli for 25, if they do get Max for 26, who do they get rid of?
That’s going to be one of totos easiest decisions. He will get rid of George in a heartbeat. It’s not as if he is covering himself in glory at the moment.
This again lol. He's matching/beating the greatest driver of all time and that's not enough..?
simondbarnes
Full Member
Albon qualifies 8th!!
Looks like he could be disqualified as their new floor doesn’t appear to be legal
Bit weird that , usually the new parts are checked by the FIA on the computer models beforehand and then checked again to make sure the physical part matches the CAD before they're first used on the car. I don't understand how it happened. Maybe an installation issue?
Bit weird that , usually the new parts are checked by the FIA on the computer models beforehand and then checked again to make sure the physical part matches the CAD before they’re first used on the car.
I don't think they do now, cars are all self certified. Looks like Williams' ruler was a bit out.
This again lol. He’s matching/beating the greatest driver of all time and that’s not enough..?
No he isn’t. He is 2 places and 34 point behind Hamilton at the moment. Hamilton has won twice and been on the podium 4 times compared to George who has won one and made the podium twice. He is doing a good second driver role and nothing more.
simondbarnes
I don’t think they do now, cars are all self certified. Looks like Williams’ ruler was a bit out
Well, shit, that makes more sense then.
chrismac
No he isn’t. He is 2 places and 34 point behind Hamilton at the moment. Hamilton has won twice and been on the podium 4 times compared to George who has won one and made the podium twice. He is doing a good second driver role and nothing more.
He's 11-4 up in qualifying and it would in normal circumstances have been a win last race. As for points he lost 8 points getting taken out by Alonso and 25 for the DQ, so basically matching Lewis.
He’s 11-4 up in qualifying and it would in normal circumstances have been a win last race. As for points he lost 8 points getting taken out by Alonso and 25 for the DQ, so basically matching Lewis.
There is no prize for qualifying only race results matter. If he is beating him so convincingly in qualifying then why can’t he win in the race. In normal circumstances he would have not tried to 1 stop. He would have then still not won but would have scored some points. These are just excuses.
But what exactly are you trying to say when you say “It’s not as if he is covering himself in glory at the moment”? It’s quite a euphemistic statement. I think it’s fair to say that Russell is exceptional on a Saturday and inconsistent on a Sunday, but the same could be said about Leclerc and some other drivers. You have to accept that Belgium is a tricky one: both of the Mercedes drivers turned in excellent performances, and it seems a bit of a stretch to say that zero points was Russell’s deserved result from that: the DSQ was really down to the team’s blind spot, not his. Also what do you mean by “In normal circumstances he would have not tried to 1 stop”? How is “normal” (whatever that is) relevant? In the conditions at that circuit on that day he chose to one-stop and, on the track, that paid off. From the cockpit it was a great call; the pit wall should have been more thorough. I can’t say I’m George’s greatest fan, but I think to say “He is doing a good second driver role and nothing more” is rather a distorted view. A second driver would have two-stopped in Belgium at the team’s request in order to ensure a safe victory for their first driver, they wouldn’t have convinced the team to keep them out for their own victory.
So why aren’t they allowed T-cars any more?
Obviously to cut costs. The two drivers couldn't share a T-car because the engine and gearbox can't be shared between the drivers so teams would have to either take two complete spare cars or openly favour one driver. At Williams, that favoured driver is not going to be the one who keeps crashing. AIUI, they take a spare tub and enough spare parts to build a car if one driver bins it, but it takes time to build that car up. Not binning it on a regular basis is probably a useful strategy if you want to succeed at that level of motorsport.
The cost cutting might have been true in the pre-cost cap era, but now it would be an allocation of costs thing rather than a total cost thing. If a team think it worth having a spare then why not, they'll have to make cuts elsewhere. And I suspect they would be minor, they already carry enough spares to each race to be able to repair anything, why not just have them already assembled before the the start of FP1? They would even have engines and gearboxes for each driver, so using a t-car would incur a penalty if they've already gone over allocation but that's it.
DSQ was really down to the team’s blind spot, not his.
Russel has now admitted he lost some weight and didn’t tell the team so whilst I agree the team should bare some of the responsibility not telling the team your lighter is pretty dumb
The cost cutting might have been true in the pre-cost cap era, but now it would be an allocation of costs thing rather than a total cost thing.
T-cars aren't allowed because the teams agreed to ban them. They're just a waste of money.
2nd win for Norris, ahead of Verstappen, and LeClerc.
This again lol. He’s matching/beating the greatest driver of all time and that’s not enough..?
Russel starts 4th and ends up 7th. Another day going backwards in the race. Hamilton 14th, where he should never have been due to poor qualifying, to 7th. Remind me how this is a good performance by George
Delighted to see Norris take the win and close the gap to max a bit more
Remind me how this is a good performance by George
Mercedes had the 4th quickest car this weekend. 7th & 8th was the best they could do.
George couldnt improve as he was car limited, and Lewis recovered to where he should have been.
Hamilton 14th, where he should never have been due to poor qualifying, to 7th*.
*8th, behind Russell. Giving Russell the lead in the head to head between the 2 (8-7). Merc were the 4th fastest team today, George was the better of the two team mates.
Let’s see what the final standings show shall we.
"Russell closed the gap to Hamilton in the drivers championship this weekend."
Despite starting 10 places ahead of him.
Great job by lando, that felt like a bit of a statement being made right there. Constructors is onnnn!
chrismac
Remind me how this is a good performance by George
1 he beat the greatest driver of all time in qualifying, in the same car
2 he beat the greatest driver of all time in the race, in the same car
3 the qualifying head-to-head is now 11-4 in rus favour
4 the race head-to-head is now 8-4 in rus favour
Merc need to work out why they've gone from being fastest team last race to fourth fastest this race. Hopefully just bad setup with the new floor and lack of fp3 running due to Sargent's crash.
Credit where it's due to verstappen too, the car looked real crap, he did well to hang on to second.
I'm not a Woody fan but hes showing his ability this year. Although to be fair (apart from Silverstone) I dont think we're seeing Lewis at 100% this year.
It wont take that many races for McLaren to overhaul Red Bull to lead the constructors championship.
We just need Piastri and others to be getting between Lando and Max to make the drivers championship interesting.
Credit where it’s due to verstappen too, the car looked real crap, he did well to hang on to second.
This is what McLaren should have realised before Hungary: even if McLaren have a car advantage, Verstappen still has the ability to finish second.
Nine races to go. If Norris wins them all and Verstappen is second then (fastest laps aside) Norris will finish seven points off the WDC. Precisely the number of points they took from him in Hungary. Now they need at least two one-two finishes, and they need them in the right order.
And still they’re doing baffling things: why would they ask Norris early in the race who he thinks he’s racing against? That’s the team’s job. They see all the data, the driver just sees what’s around them.
They’re really at risk of looking like mugs if this is The Season They Threw Away.
They’re really at risk of looking like mugs if this is
TheAnother Season They Threw Away
FTFY.
The chances of Lando and Max finishing 1 - 2 in the remaining races are slim to zero.
Merc can win again if the track suits and I don’t discount Ferrari for a win or two in the remaining races.
Haas's trucks have been impounded at Zandvoort due to the dispute with Uralkali.
They still think they'll be at Monza on time.
Just thought you'd like to know
Nine races to go. If Norris wins them all and Verstappen is second then (fastest laps aside) Norris will finish seven points off the WDC. Precisely the number of points they took from him in Hungary. Now they need at least two one-two finishes, and they need them in the right order.
You now have Piastri on-side, so you can ask him to play the team game and finish P2 to Lando for the rest of the year, which is what they need him to do to help Lando catch Max.
And still they’re doing baffling things: why would they ask Norris early in the race who he thinks he’s racing against?
Dont take all of the radio messages literally. Many of them can be code for something agreed pre-race. It could have easily been "are you cruising with plenty of pace in hand?".
The chances of Lando and Max finishing 1 – 2 in the remaining races are slim to zero.
Of course. But that’s kind of the trend and then luck can intervene either way (and if Ferrari or Mercedes jump McLaren at occasional races then that only makes McLaren’s job harder): the point is that Hungary opened the door to the WDC by just a crack, and McLaren didn’t seem to get excited by that. They’ll get the constructors’, but it seems they want to wait for 2025 to go for the WDC. I find that odd. But then I’m sitting on a sofa, not running an F1 team.
Ideally Norris/McLaren need bodies between himself and Verstappen to mount a realistic challenge to the WDC. They've just surprised themselves at how quickly they've developed the car.
And still they’re doing baffling things: why would they ask Norris early in the race who he thinks he’s racing against?
That was after Lando had just done a fast lap. I took it as the engineer asking why he's pushing at that stage of the race.
Out a DNF or 2 in for Max and the championship is much more achievable as there are 2 Mclarens against 1 Red bull (and Perez).
If Max can not longer drive AWAY from others, he has a history of driving THROUGH others which doesn't always end well for either side. I guess Lando just need to be sure not to be part of one of Max's 'race incidents'.
Credit where it’s due to verstappen too, the car looked real crap, he did well to hang on to second.
There's a rumour doing the rounds that Verstappen wasn't pressing on the 'go' pedal quite as hard as he could've done and let Norris go without much resistance as a sort of 'hurry up' to the team to provide him with a faster/better car.
Verstappen wasn’t pressing on the ‘go’ pedal quite as hard as he could’ve done
I did wonder this from a different perspective - no point unnecessarily straining the engine and other components more than you need to. If you've got 2nd safe and realistically know that you've no chance of catching Norris. But then again, I don't think Verstappen is mentally able to not go for the win and he would have stayed closer if he could have just incase of a error or problem for Norris.
The lack of resistance to Norris' overtake on lap18 was startling, I don't think I've ever seen Max give away position so easily like that before.
I don't think Max is entirely convinced that the team know what they're doing, especially running two very different spec cars in the same race.
Russel has now admitted he lost some weight and didn’t tell the team so whilst I agree the team should bare some of the responsibility not telling the team your lighter is pretty dumb
I'm doubting that - their physical condition is very closely monitored [by their PT] .... I'd say there's very little chance the team didn't know how much he weighed.
, especially running two very different spec cars in the same race.
I missed that. And Checo was closer than he's been for a while, (fastest in Q1 IIRC?) Were they different specs at Spa too when he got the front row? He clearly likes a different kind of car to Max
He is quoted as saying it several reliable sources.
Of it get close towards the end of the season if i was lando i would asking for bumpers to be fitted to protect the car from max
Out a DNF or 2 in for Max and the championship is much more achievable as there are 2 Mclarens against 1 Red bull
I think if Merc get more consistent, some DNFs are more likely, going by past history and Hamilton has little to lose.
Also Honda are on their 5th ICE iirc.
It'll be interesting to see how desperate Max gets if he keeps conceding points. Especially with Singapore up in a couple of races time.
There’s a rumour doing the rounds that Verstappen wasn’t pressing on the ‘go’ pedal quite as hard as he could’ve done and let Norris go without much resistance as a sort of ‘hurry up’ to the team to provide him with a faster/better car.
wouldnt the team know how hard he was trying from the telemetry?
The lack of resistance to Norris’ overtake on lap18 was startling, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Max give away position so easily like that before.
I was expecting him to make it harder, so perhaps he is trying to force the team into trying harder. Though I can’t imagine that they aren’t trying their best already.
To be fair, Williams could have announced that a Police Academy* driver was driving for them and it would have been an improvement.
Zed or Tacklebury I reckon.
*The comedy movie from long ago
That I'm currently watching on ITV4+1 🙂
Also Honda are on their 5th ICE iirc.
Yes, the Merc engined teams should all be able to make it to the end without exceeding the limit. Red Bull cannot afford to blow an engine or gearbox.
https://www.f1-fansite.com/2024-f1-season/2024-used-f1-power-unit-elements-gearboxes/
Nice chart, I wonder if Mclaren might run a new engine for Monza? Add pressure to RedBull and keep momentum.
Some of the ICEs which have been swapped out are not necessarily beyond redemption - often just not at peak power so can be but back in to service without taking a penalty if required.
Monza is always interesting with the setup and the potnetial to run a banzai straight-line-0nly minimum downforce setup. I dont think Mclaren will go all in on this, but its Williams who often do. This would be good for the new guy to get a really strong qualifying perfomance, even if the race result is back of the pack (which would be acceptalbe to the team, I think).
Albon with the highest measured trap speed and getting into Q3 would be not unexpected for me.
There’s a lot of people saying that Logan had ability/pace just hadn’t been able to show it. Never saw it myself and I’m glad he’s gone. Franco can’t be any worse.
Every crash he had is money out of the cost capped budget to replace parts. That's money taken away from potential upgrades and development. There's also the time aspect of the people who have to make the replacement parts. They could be working on making upgrade parts. Given that they just brought a big update to the last race I'm guessing they don't have a huge amount of spare upgraded parts sat around for when he smashes it in to a wall in Monza.
It's also right to bring a rookie from their own development programme in. Even if he doesn't score any points as long as he keeps it on the track then he's doing a better job. Giving a seat to Lawson or Schumacher is just giving your potential future rivals chance to practice and improve themselves at your expense.
Absolutely - it gets to the point where he's potentially holding Albon back too, where he might have had some go-faster bits developed and made by now and that is not on.
Giving a seat to Lawson or Schumacher is just giving your potential future rivals chance to practice and improve themselves at your expense.
Both Toto Wolff and Horner said no to Antonelli and Lawson respectively, Horner because they might want him back 'quickly' (!) and Wolff because they have a very carefully laid out development plan for Antonelli inc practice days in the 2022 car etc which they don't want to have disrupted
LOL!... 🙂
https://www.racefans.net/2024/08/29/f1-safety-car-crashes-in-practice-run-before-italian-grand-prix/
Nice that Sargeant got a new job so quickly 😉
Ooof, Antonelli has binned the Merc already
That's 1-0 to Franco Colapinto then
Antonelli failed at rookie rule number 1 - keep it on the black stuff.
All he needed was top 10 and everyone would have said "yeah, solid start" but seems he was going banzai on his second flying lap and it has bit him.
Interestingly (or not) Alonso almost binned it at the same corner that Antonelli did.
New track surface seems to be very low grip
That’s 1-0 to Franco Colapinto then
Colapinto has the rest of the weekend to build up his speed though.
Surprised to see Kimi take Woody's car and not Lewis's though.
"Surprised to see Kimi take Woody’s car and not Lewis’s though."
I think that had been scheduled some time ago, his next outing will be in Lewis's car.
Colapinto has the rest of the weekend to build up his speed though.
And also almost binned it at the same corner.
Interestingly (or not) Alonso almost binned
Add Sainz to the list too
Surprised to see Kimi take Woody’s car and not Lewis’s though.
Not really. Why wouldn’t he take the second drivers car rather than the team leaders?