Seems pretty obvious what the problem with England is. These are players who are used to playing a modern high pressing, high speed and high energy game at the highest levels being forced to play an outdated tippy-tappy cautious game plan which they haven't a clue how to execute. They're probably bored out of their minds.
This is the most tedious game of the competition so far.
Can't understand the negativity, whilst limited, the Danes are creating a few chances.
lucky boy Connor!
Foden’s the only one who has looked interested tonight and he gets subbed? Gordon will be chuffed at giving up his summer holiday for no reason whatsoever. 🙄
tough to say for a bloke with 60- odd goals but Kane is no longer the man we need. Worth a squad place and for some games but our game doesn't really suit him now.
The 'mug of Ovaltine and sleeping pill' nutrition strategy is not paying off yet.
Luckily for England the ref has been very kind.
Awful performance. Surely it can’t be a fitness issue? Definitely problems with the system, TAA wrong position. Foden works hard but ineffective. The England defence and midfield out themselves under massive amounts of pressure with the constant backward passing and no forward movement.
England was lucky to cling into a draw. That was very poor.
Surely it can’t be a fitness issue?
There's a load of them having a lie down, I have no idea why.
A point having been so poor is a decent result.
Well,that was piss poor and tedious to watch 👎
Exactly what Dazh says, abysmal game, they just can't play this slow stuff
Right, enough of this drudgery, anyone for France v Spain? Should be decent.
That was a gruelling watch. I thought Saka was the brightest spark. But my word it was grim overall.
Italy Spain or leaders special hmmmm...?
Absolutely dire , I don't know why I bother I don't really like football but always think I'll be missing something 🙄
The ‘mug of Ovaltine and sleeping pill’ nutrition strategy is not paying off yet.
i felt like I’d had a sleeping pill.
Christ on a bike - that was a painful watch.
Time for Southgate to go he has no clue, most of these players had a great season.
I had a nice nap on the sofa and still plenty of evening to enjoy now. Lovely.
Watching Spain v Italy - what a difference. Lots of attacks particularly by Spain, limited sideways and back passing, loads of skill on show.
Southgate's clearly had enough of the Tories and doesn't want to risk any bounce.
We'll scrape a draw next Tuesday, a dodgy (prob pens) win in the last 16 next weekend, and then a qtr final the day after the election.
When miraculously we'll turn out to actually be ****ing brilliant.
Italy giving England and Scotland a run for worst performance of the tournament here!
Well, Southgate has now completed the full life cycle of England management - early promise, build on it, finds a new "golden generation", starts to believe own hype and over-analyses it, and then rapidly reduces star-filled team to tired and clueless collection of individuals whose only connection is that they wear the same shirt. Now time for the headlines of ridicule and riding off into the Neverland of punditry.
Southgate hasn't changed. He's always been tactically naive. He doesn't have a Plan B and current evidence B suggests that Plan A belongs in 1988. He has completely failed to embrace modern tactics.
What really grates is his interviews where he displays his O level psychology and tries to reinforce the positives whilst ignoring the negatives.
He's out of his depth at Intentional level
I'm an Ireland fan, I have no skin in the game but England and this crop of talented players deserve so much better.
I'm always amazed at how England supporters all but destroy their confidence while still in the group phase, reality is England had a howler yesterday, all the big players were woeful, but the thing you get with world class players is they tend to never have two bad games in a row.
The group games are there to progress and make tweaks to work out the best formation, i think Southgate now knows that TAA is just not for that position, the player needs to go away and work on how to be a midfielder, Kane needs to stop thinking he's a false 9, he is a bloody striker, a full fat 9, stop him slinking into midfield, Rice is better up a little, so try out Mainoo or Wharton in their actual club positions, to allow Rice to be in his club position, you've got one more group game, against probably the weakest team in the group, so just put a formation of players in their rightful position.
The one thing i do think is a worry for England though, and it wasn't shown hugely last night, is down the left, you have Trippier out of position and Guehi as the left full back, if you're a big team with a world class striker/winger, you're targeting that big style, i don't think there's a fix for that in the squad, unlike the issues in midfield and up front.
One element in his defence is just how choreographed the top club sides are - Foden is spontaneously great at Man City, but he is particularly so within a team of great players who know exactly what to do and when because his manager has spent hours working on the patterns (note how Guardiola regularly berates players who haven't necessarily had a poor game, they may have had a blinder even, but if they didn't play the right pass at the right time he gives them an earful). Trying to get players from different clubs with their different systems and ideas to blend well in a relatively short time is probably almost harder than the days of "go have a good game lads" instructions. That is the limit of the case for the defence; firstly you have to play players where they are used to playing - experimenting with TAA at international level is a bit daft. Secondly, it can't be beyond the powers of a manager to install the sense of collectivity, running off the ball and, for example, deciding on when the team is going to press.
When was the last time England played a high pressing lively game, back in '96 maybe? How about going into a tournament having spanked a few teams instead of scraped by, can you just imagine the team talk for opposing teams ahead of facing England....."yeah they'll back pass in a tick, just nick the ball of them and smash it in the net"
Rice is obviously playing (very badly yesterday) to instructions to sit in front of the back four. Which is all well and good but to be effective there he needs an outball and when he looks around his left back, Trippier, isn't viable because he is out of position and his companion central midfielder, TAA, just doesn't have the experience to be there and/or Rice doesn't quite trust him. His next best alternative is probably Bellingham but yesterday he looked as though his stellar season had caught up with him.
I think 'lack of trust' is the issue from back to front.
None of them trust the players around them to do their jobs, retain the ball, pass accurately at pace, reposition or clear up the mess if a move breaks down. So they slow everything down to a crawl, don't push forward and press other teams hard, try a creative run or a lower percentage through ball.
It's a kind of fear paralysis, even the likes of Kane is sitting inside his own half just backpassing as soon as he gets the ball, and their back four is alongside him. And the remarkable thing is that it seems to tire out players more than just attacking at full pelt, judging by the state of them after 70 minutes.
Rice is obviously playing (very badly yesterday) to instructions to sit in front of the back four. Which is all well and good but to be effective there he needs an outball
Did I hear Southgate saying that we were missing Kalvin Philips at one point in his post-match interview?
Yes. Yes, you did.
I think Southgate fixates on one particular system for the team. If Kalvin Phillips is the only way to achieve it, and you're playing the likes of Foden and TAA out of position too, perhaps it's not the right system for the moment.
Did I hear Southgate saying that we were missing Kalvin Philips at one point in his post-match interview?
You also heard him say they need to 'walk toward' the challenge. Perhaps they should 'lean into' it too? Maybe leverage their skills and experience to achieve synergy and materialise success in the realtime work environment? Or maybe Southgate can **** off with his corporate middle manager bollocks and start acting like a football manager?
The solution is simple, Rice, Bellingham and Mainoo in midfield, Gordon, Watkins and Palmer up front. They are the 6 in form players coming out of last season and three of them haven't even been on the pitch yet.
Most the sides seem to play with two defensive midfielders, I suspect that’s what Southgate was getting at re Phillips. Him and Rice did look good together. Asking Trent to perform the role is daft, he’s never played there consistently, he would only ever drift inside from full back and only in the last year when it became trendy to do so.
It never ceases to amaze me the level of optimism football fans have. Every big tournament they are hyped up that we will win and we never do.
'Did I hear Southgate saying that we were missing Kalvin Philips at one point in his post-match interview?'
Yes you did. In which case (as has been suggested) play Mainoo or Wharton instead of TAA. (Mainly is good at trying to make forward progress and Wharton is great with long passes).
Yesterday it was like the whole team formation had been jigged around to try and accommodate Foden in his favoured position. Rice ended up having the worst game I've ever sèen him have, Bellingham wilted in the shadows
The truth is that Foden has never really shone for England, he doesn't have the connection with other players that he has at City and he doesn't impose his personality on the team. It was if Rice and Bellingham were having to compensate for TAA and Foden.
The TV pundits are no better with their Foden love in either. And what exactly have England been working on in training???
City are like a prescison instrument, like a Rolex. England are more like a Timex.
Don't get the criticism for Southgate - good players can play any position. Maybe the players are again less than the sum of their parts.
I've heard this argument for as long as i have been watching football - the expectation on the England team is way overblown - they are not a tier 1 team - ever. Due to their size and prestige they are always drawn in easy qualifying groups then shock horror, when they get to a tournament they look ordinary.
Him and Rice did look good together.
They did – but that was when Philips was in form – he was bench-warming at West Ham for most of the second half of the season as he was an absolute liability on the pitch.
Don’t get the criticism for Southgate – good players can play any position. Maybe the players are again less than the sum of their parts.
The team includes the Bundesliga top scorer, PL player of the season, and La Liga player of the season.
The team includes the Bundesliga top scorer, PL player of the season, and La Liga player of the season.
they dont look like it when they play for England - but hey ho it's the manager only. Don't forget they are surrounded by great players too.
Glad I went riding rather than watch it last night.
The team line up is massively unbalanced - there is no one on the left hand side & Kane as good as he is comes looking for the ball too much so we end up compact & overcrowded on the right.
John Stones (where he plays on occasion for City) would be a better fit alongside Rice, but that would leave us exposed at the back then.
Maybe Southgate should play 3 at the back with Stones dropping back in when needed
