[Closed] feminists.

literally?

one on each?

Anita Sarkeesian = Not a nice person

I think it's very hard to identify modern feminism - the expected linear trajectory of feminist movement of the 70's and 80' have become fragmented, contradictory and scattered - e.g pole dancing is both a reviled activity and a popular exercise.

I think, on reflection it's because women be crazy.

samunkim - Member
Anita Sarkeesian = Not a nice person

Why?

How about looking at her target of choice..

Socially awkward gamer nerds, living in mum's basement. Yeah way to re-invent feminism ( and make yourself rich ) anita

samunkim - Member
How about looking at her target of choice..

Socially awkward gamer nerds, living in mum's basement. Yeah way to re-invent feminism ( and make yourself rich ) anita

Aw, yeah, the pwah ickle gamers, sending death and rape threats, publishing her home and work addresses online.

Really?

As for getting rich, she'd still be an obscure YouTuber if the misogynistic, sorry 'socially awkward gamer nerds' hadn't started a massive campaign of hate and harassment against her. So yeah, gutted them and more power to her really if she's getting rich.

did they call you name for being a tart Alpin 😉

Depends on thr individual tbh

I dislike the term as a battle for equality concerns us all I also think it is dangerous to see the world in terms of only one dynamic be it gender , sexuality, class or capital.

I also think a number of men are threatened by strong and forceful women and some of the comments on social media are contemptible
Basically it depends on what they say rather than whether they identify themselves as a feminist.....same as cyclists really or men.

Lifer
God you must be bored, if you want rehash this whole thing..

But okay lets play

Whats more important to you
1. abolishing FGM or boys looking at animated boowbs ?
2. ISIS taking women from captured towns as trophy slaves or boys looking at animated boowbs ?
3. The fact that the police still seem unable/unwilling to step in & prevent violence and murders in abusive relationships or boys looking at animated boowbs ?

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/08/killing-of-women-by-men-record-database-femicide

no one calls me a tart, Junky, except, well... me.
i just liked the irony of saying that feminists get on my tits. =)

[img] [/img]

But okay lets play

Whats more important to you
1. abolishing FGM or boys looking at animated boowbs ?
2. ISIS taking women from captured towns as trophy slaves or boys looking at animated boowbs ?
3. The fact that the police still seem unable/unwilling to step in & prevent violence and murders in abusive relationships or boys looking at animated boowbs ?

I know how about not being flippant and trying to do it all, how about the idea if you stop some of the issues early on and educate people better as to what is more socially and morally acceptable you might be able to make in roads into domestic violence before it starts.

Lets play another game
Which would you prefer losing your left leg or losing your right one?

But okay lets play

Whatabouttery is a stupid game, and a bankrupt rhetorical device. All those things are bad. Sarkeesian is an academic with an interest in computer games. So that's what she makes slightly grating but basically correct videos about.

Meanwhile, [i]other[/i] people with [i]different[/i] areas of expertise are busily trying to stamp out FGM, combat ISIS and deal with domestic abuse.

All of these things are happening [u]at the same time[/u], and if all of them got sorted, that would be excellent. The precise order in which they get sorted is probably not going to be much affected by re-deploying Anita Sarkeesian to fight ISIS, or the RAF to persuade "gamers" to be less ghastly.

Also, this "choice of target" stuff has been done to death. If you haven't read Laurie Penny's [url= http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penny/on-nerd-entitlement-rebel-alliance-empire ]rather good essay[/url], give it a go. One can reasonably disagree with a lot of Penny's stuff, but this is a perfectly earnest attempt to engage and explain on this. If you're feeling personally attacked by it, take a moment. She really isn't having a go at you.

Tough crowd

My wife's a modern feminist, which from where I'm sat seems to give her every right to say really shitty things about men doing innocuous things and not spotting the irony of what she's doing. It really grinds my gears.

You know when you're sat on a train and you overhear a conversation and think

"I probably ought to say something, 'cos what they're saying is wrong."

but you don't because you know it'll just cause a row and it's not going to change anyone's mind.

This thread is one of those occasions.

BigDummy - cheers for the Laurie Penny link, will share this with my 2 teenage boys.

"Sarkeesian’s videos argue that often female game characters face deadly harm as a context for bloody male-perpetrated revenge, and that this could contribute toward a culture in which threatening violence against women is normalised. It is a suggestion that some have disagreed with so strongly that, in 2014, the organisers of the Game Developer’s Choice award ceremony in San Francisco were emailed a bomb threat if Sarkeesian appeared."
I can't really see which side in that debate is the "not nice one" can any one help?

You know when you're sat on a train and you overhear a conversation and think

"I probably ought to say something, 'cos what they're saying is wrong."

but you don't because you know it'll just cause a row and it's not going to change anyone's mind.

This thread is one of those occasions.

Ah yes, you can't win an argument with a stupid person as they're too stupid to realise when they're wrong?!?

Is girl
Is gamer
dunno if fem (well, y'know durr, y'know what I mean) 😳

Watches thread

often female game characters face deadly harm as a context for bloody male-perpetrated revenge, and that this could contribute toward a culture in which threatening violence against women is normalised.

Okay - so we give princess peach her own game.

I don't think you have to be a femenist to think that FGM and Domestic violence are wrong...

[i]I don't think you have to be a femenist to think that FGM and Domestic violence are wrong.[/i]

I think you might be surprised TBH.

samunkim - Member
Lifer
God you must be bored, if you want rehash this whole thing..

But okay lets play

Whats more important to you
1. abolishing FGM or boys looking at animated boowbs ?
2. ISIS taking women from captured towns as trophy slaves or boys looking at animated boowbs ?
3. The fact that the police still seem unable/unwilling to step in & prevent violence and murders in abusive relationships or boys looking at animated boowbs ?

Play what? I only asked you why you thought Anita Sarkeesian isn't a nice person.

She was in a position to comment with knowledge on a subject and did it.

What are you doing to stop those things you've posted, you bastard*?

*not ad hominem, because according to your own rules if you're not doing anything to stop those things then you're not a nice person.

Pwned.

😉

I think the big problem with "feminists" is it's a broad, ambiguous term.

There are feminists who think, quite rightly, that people should be equal and treated equally regardless of the form their naughty bits happened to take.

There are feminists who think all men are rapists and should be castrated at birth.

So when one talks about "feminists" one is making a rash generalisation and probably not going to do oneself any favours.

Whats more important to you
1. abolishing FGM or boys looking at animated boowbs ?
[etc]

Why are all these things mutually exclusive? Is sexual repression a prerequisite before people can stop cutting lumps out of children (to repress their sexuality, ironically)?

Also, if you're gonna intentionally misspell 'boobs' it's 'bewbz'.
RM.

Hmm - the feminists thread descends into discussion on how to alternatively spell boobs. oh well :-/

Rachel

well it's better than is started....

Hi BigDummy, Lifer

Please provide evidence of Anita's knowledge of subject & and interest in computer games.
"Anita can't name three video games" etc etc

mikewsmith
left leg obviously

Please provide evidence of Anita's knowledge of subject & and interest in computer games.
"Anita can't name three video games" etc etc

I'm not sure what you're on about here, but Anita reels off the names of a fair few games in her YouTubes, does that count?

You know she can't actually take your gameboobz away, don't you? She just makes a case for why they're not just a harmless incidental in the gaming landscape. If you think they're under threat and they're vital to your gaming experience it's up to you to make the case for keeping them. This is traditionally done by making threats of rape and murder, bomb threats, SWATing, that sort of thing.

[i]"Anita can't name three video games" etc etc[/i]

good grief, the woman's clearly a monster!

samunkin - really - how is she not a nice person.

(damn and I said I wouldn't bite).

I haven't yet seen anyone argue the pro-GamerGate side without looking like a massive end...

wwaswas

Cool, now we get to the twist my words phase.

I didn't say she was monster, I just pointed out that she has no experience or expertise in gaming.

What's worse than a male chauvinist?
A woman that won't do what she's told.

[i]I just pointed out that she has no experience or expertise in gaming. [/i]

you said she wasn't a nice person. I questioned whether having little knowledge of gaming made someone not a nice person.

Do you have any actual evidence beyond a claimed lack of knowledge of games that she's a bad person?

Why does she need experience or expertise (lol) in gaming?

Her position is gaming has an issue with misogyny and she's 100% right. Who cares whether she's a nice person? That's what they call ad hominem.

I say that as a lifelong 'gamer' and a feminist.

I haven't yet seen anyone argue the pro-GamerGate side without looking like a massive end...

AFAIK the basic argument is a free-market one, and whether or not a private company is under any obligation to promote a particular political or social viewpoint.

Of course, the fact that a game is sexist doesn't mean that its fans want to have that pointed out to them, and try to wriggle out with ad-hominem attacks, the worst of which have included death and rape threats. I'd have a lot more respect for them if they'd just said "yes, it's sexist, I like looking at tits"...

Dunno, from reading her wikipedia she seems a pretty reasonable person (particularly speaking as a pink princess stereotype hating father). It does kind of wind me up that whilst popular culture sees all sorts of shapes and sizes of guys, women in games/films are (practically) always thin with big tits.

I would like to see her doing more science and less philosophy though. IMO the tropes she talks about are a symptom not the disease. And obviously anyone who sends threats is a total bell end. And there are, yes, bigger issues in the world which she may or may not be doing anything about - but they don't really merit discussion do they? I think we all kind of agree about them.

I commented recently to a friend that the idea of feminism was anachronistic, that in this country at least (other places are vastly different), men and women enjoyed entirely equal opportunity.

She retorted quite sharply when this apparent equality had been reached. To which I said the day we elected a woman as Prime Minister.

There is inequality every where in the UK and anyone of any gender, race, colour, creed or age can experience being disadvantaged. The idea that women are materially more disadvantaged in this country than any other group, including white middle class men, is in my view a myth.

But like I said, the rest of the world is a completely different story.

and the point I am trying to make is that gaming is NOT misogynist and she has cherry-picked examples out of context to gain international fame and $150,000..

IMO gaming and comic book worlds are obsessed with tits and fannies

from the characters, the roles they have in games, the clothes (lack) they wear, without getting into the whole role model stuff, and weird view of women it has.

pretty much every game makes me die a bit inside

a lot of guys that like games and comics don't like that being pointed out to them, but at least women developers and commentators are speaking out about it.

Oh, and gamerboyz? If on Saturday you think you'd like to spend some time in Game, would it kill you to have a shower? You don't actually have to live the stereotype, y'know? (joke) 😆

I haven't yet seen anyone argue the pro-GamerGate side without looking like a massive end...

^ This.

Unfortunately, gaming has been steeped in unintentional and intentional misogyny from it's very early days. Part of the problem is that until recently, games were designed by young males and marketed at young males. The fact that the marketplace is expanding to cater for women can only be a good thing, I find it sad that some aggressive, socially dysfunctional males see it as a threat.

As for feminism, if believing that women aren't treated equally in society and that it isn't fair makes me a feminist then I guess I'm happy to wear that on my sleeve.