My wife and I popped round for tea at my parents' tonight. My wife is expecting our first bairn, and her and my mam were talking about this whilst I sorted out yet another self-inflicted computer problem for my dad.
I could hear wife and mam talking about morning sickness, and heard mam say, quite candidly, "I wasn't sick at all with Steve, but I was sick all the time with my second".
This was a rather interesting thing to hear, since I've lived all 33 years of my life under the impression that I'm an only child.
I was so stunned I didn't even respond. It was only when my wife mentioned it on the way home that it even really registered.
I think a chat with mother could be on the cards.
Bit of a mind****, really. I could do with a drink.
Stillborn? Miscarried?
Possibly so. It still seems strange to me that it's never been mentioned - ever - by anyone in the family.
I think Id just be blunt and ask directly, but would be mindful it might be harder to speak of than listen to.
Thats my 2p.
do they have a cellar/attic you don't know about?
It still seems strange to me that it's never been mentioned - ever - by anyone in the family.
I wouldn't be surprised if my sister has never told her 2 kids about all the miscarriages she had between their 2 births - she was pretty screwed up about them as they were very advanced pregnancies. I'll ask next time I speak to her - but I wouldn't dream of telling my nephew (grown up and married) and my niece if she hasn't told them.
Could be a cot-death? I have hazy memories from four years of age of my younger brother dying from that. If you were maybe one or two you very probably wouldn't remember it.
Count the number of windows on the outside of the house, then see if they tally up with the number of windows inside. If they don't match, there may be a secret, walled up room in the house.
I had a sister, Elizabeth who died when I was two years old. She only lived for a few months.
I couldn't remember anything about her, I was too young.
My mum didn't tell me about it until I was 18 or so. I think she was always worried that my brother (5 years my junior) would be upset if he thought he was a 'replacement'.
She still gets very upset about it occasionally, 28 years on.
😕 I don't know why anyone needs to treat this as some sort of joke.....it's his mother we're talking about - and a possible sibling.
When my wee brother was at the toddling about stage, he pulled a cup of scalding hot coffee off the sofa arm onto himself. He was quite badly burned and obviously distressed but my mum's reaction was totally unexpected; a very strong woman, she just went completely to pieces.
She was completely hysterical and it was left to me (11 at the time) to get a packet of frozen peas onto the injury and go to a neighbour's house to organise a lift to the hospital.
My dad (divorced years ago) told me years later that when my mum was about ten, she watched her little brother pull a pan of boiling water off the cooker onto his head, which killed him - thus the reaction to the coffee cup incident. She has never said anything about her missing sibling to me, my sister or wee brother.
stevestunts, that does sound like a strange thing to happen.
When you say you popped round, I take it you visit fairly frequently ?
Next time, try and leave them alone again. No doubt the conversation will turn to babies again and Mrs stunts will have the opportunity to ask for further details if you can prime her with some questions.
It's sometimes hard to talk about these things. I know my mum, but I don't know who my father is or was and it won't be discussed.
I'm 50 and feel like I.m running out of time to ever know, every time I see something like 'Who do you think you are' it gets my mind racing.
That's pretty mad.
My mum went on holiday with my gf at that time (seems strange in itself now) & told her she had previously been married / divorced which was a complete surprise to me. (& I haven't even mentioned to my ma ten years on)
It's less strange that she might have decided not to tell you about a second child and far more strange that she should choose to disclose it to your wife in such an apparently casual manner, as if this is something that had never been a secret.
Think more than one drink might be on the cards.
Nothing strange about it at all, like others have said miscarriage, cot death or still born are all feasible. Some people never raise the subject as there's no need when your young and then it becomes no need to mention it also it was a taboo subject at one time. Nothing odd in telling your wife maybe she thought it was time to bring the subject up and this was the only way she could think. She could be thinking it's odd of you took no notice and carried on fixing the computer.
abit wierd tho she had mentioned it to steve's wife and not to steve himself....i guess thats a woman thing... but yeah still births, misscarriage, cot deaths are all 'difficult' subjects to talk about in the open if you are the kind of person that 'bottles' things up, and afraid to talk about....
you could just have a quiet word with your mam and say 'you overheard the conversation and ask if ya mam would like to talk about it ? if she doesnt want to then leave it at that... 😉
Nowt as queer as folk 🙂
the OH found out her mum had been in an abusive marriage before by stumbling into an old diary in the loft... still hasnt approached her mum about it to this day.
my parents told me all the family secrets at a stupidly young age, grew up knowing the dark side of life and it definately effected me.... think what i'm trying to suggest is that there's no right way to deal with things and no "right" time to tell your kids
still births, misscarriage, cot deaths are all 'difficult' subjects to talk about in the open if you are the kind of person that 'bottles' things up, and afraid to talk about....
you could just have a quiet word with your mam and say 'you overheard the conversation and ask if ya mam would like to talk about it ? if she doesnt want to then leave it at that..
i agree with elaines post above, as hard as it will be, dont make the conversation about it.. about you, very easy to end up along the lines of "why didnt you tell [b]me[/b]? how do you think this has effected [b]me[/b]?" and so on.
sometimes its the whole family that doesnt know, not just the kids... a surprising amount of women dont tell husbands/partners either so it might be worth being wary of bringing it up in front of anyone other than your mum.
hope you're ok dude!
Its not unusual, and a sign that your mum fully trusts your wife - its a good thing.
And "womens' business" as my Nan would've said, "naught to do with thee"
cricky donr bring 'Nans' into the converstation :lol:...they know too much !!!! gossip gossip 😉
Last week we had my parents round for a meal to celebrate their wedding anniversary. My elder sister was born in Dec 63 and so we'd assumed their wedding was in Sep 62.
My wife asked them how many years it was this year and they exchanged sheepish looks and said 47. I questioned it knowing sis will be 47 this year and the truth came out! Looks like sis was a very early honeymoon baby!
I suppose it was the start of the swinging 60s. So it seems my sis & I celebrated their 25th anniversary a year early. We did miss their 40th anniv but had we done so it woud have been a year early.
I suppose all their safe sex lectures weren't just nagging, but a warning from experience.
When asked about it, they just said things like " we thought you knew" and "after a while you just stick to what you have been telling everyone"
I suppose it's one of those things. It's not a secret per sé, but it just never comes up. First you're too young, and then 'when's the right time' becomes 'well, we should have said something years ago, why bring it up now?' I doubt there's any huge conspiracy, so much as she's never got around to saying anything and then never saw the need.
If it -was- a big secret, why mention it so casually to someone else? Hell, maybe she [i]wants [/i]you to know and doesn't know how to broach you with it. "Hi Steve, nice day. You had a sister but she died when you were two. Pass the sugar would you?" Not the easiest thing to bring up after thirty years.
The recent birth of our child outed a family secret or two, ask the question, you may not like the answer and you could unleash a whole world of emotional pain on yourself and other people.
Sometimes the past is best left where it is.
My Dad had a baby brother who died at the age of just one. Nobody ever talks about the boy, just when we pay out dues on All Saints Day we go and light a candle in his name.
I also found out my Granny wasn't Dad's mother, she was his auntie. His mum died from the effects of Auschwitz concentration camp in the early 50's and her sister stepped in.
Families are complicated, that's what makes us all unique.
I'm a big believer in family secrets. My family get on really well and IMO its because we tell each other the absolute minimum.
my parents had a baby between my brother and I, who died in the womb, and was born at about 8 months gestation. I was told once as a teenager and it's never been mentioned again, unsurprising really, it's a very difficult subject - having to give birth to a baby you know is already dead. Heartbreaking.
I know things about each of my parents that they don't know I know. Since they haven't spoken about them to me, I figured that it's not for me to raise these things with either of them.
Children often find it hard to cope with the idea that they don't know everything about their parents. Sometimes, it's best left unasked.
So, what's the STW concensus on telling kids about prev. divorce? I'm a no, my good lady is a yes. I see trouble ahead!
My mum only found out her dad wasn't her real dad in the midst of a row (with her cousin not parents) when she was 19. She has never got a word from her own mum about it, everything she knows about her real dad is from relatives. Its not even that bad a story except that her real dad literally left town overnight when he found out he was going to be a dad ( 🙁 ) and her 'new' dad and much older half/step brothers stepped in and treated her exactly like their own flesh and blood. ( 🙂 ) I suppose being a pregnant single woman in 50's france was pretty badly frowned upon...
On a funnier note, my father in law has a 'secret' holiday home in Northamptonshire (Northants: why???!) that he thinks that none of us know about. That sort of secret is just plain daft. Unless he has a skunk farm or the bodies of his business rivals in there. I think one day I will suprise him by posting a birthday card to him there 😆
My mum told me all the stuff that had happened, when I was pretty young, so I've always known that her dad died when she was 11 or so and her mum when she was 32, younger than I am now. There was also a late miscarriage of an accidental third pregnancy, I must've been four or so when that happened - although I didn't know about it at the time.
I've always known these things pretty much, but only as an adult have I actually re-thought about them and realise what she must've gone through and how difficult it'd have been. And I was there for most of it too (apart from the dad thing). Weird.
I've known for as long as I can remember that my mother has a miscarriage between my birth and my brother's. Plus that my grandmother had a child who died at a very young age.
No probs talking to my mum about it either, not that I have ever felt the need to in depth.
"I wasn't sick at all with Steve, but I was sick all the time with my second".
under the impression that I'm an only child.
I'd take from that first sentence that are an only child, the conversation was about pregnancy and morning sickness. She's talking about a second pregnancy, not a second birth. You'd have been young at the time and probably pretty oblivious and your mum could have been experiencing morning sickness before she was visibly pregnant and could have miscarried before then too. If you we're only 2 or 3 years old she could have been quite obviously pregnant and you'd be non the wiser.
I doubt its been hidden from you, its not a secret, it just hasn't been a topical subject for discussion until there was a conversation about Morning Sickness.
My MIL talks about her 2nd, the 2nd unfortunately miscarried so i think she maybe referring to that, your wife is obviously well thought about and so she could probably ask your mum to clarify the details. Although it maybe womans stuff and nought for the lad to know about. 😕
Good luck to you both
My mum discovered a few years ago that her mum had an unconsumated marriage before she went on to marry the man who would be my grandfather.
Tis weird the things that come up in the long run but it sounds like the OP's mother didn't go full term on the second. It probably wouldn't do any harm to ask, tell her what you told us in a quiet moment and ask if she would be okay to talk about it. Time can heal some pretty deep wounds and she seems to be able to talk about it from what you say.
Wasn't there someone on here who told his cousin, when they were kids, that she was adopted? She only found out that he was lying when she told her parents, aged 18, that she would like to trace her real parents.
When my wife's grandmother died, we found out that [i]her[/i] grandmother had been stabbed and killed by a burglar. My mother-in-law knew, but it was never talked about.
My Great Grandfather's "sister" turned out to be his mother, and she worked at the local manor house as a maid. We have never kept the fact that my father died when I was six from our sons, and they know that their grandfather is not my father.
I found out at the age of 38 that I have a sister, its big news.
Steve if ever you want to chat to someone about this let me know, my email is in my profile. I have now met my sister who is three years older and has three kids. These kids have a kid each and thus in one conversation I found out I am not only an uncle three times over but a great uncle.
Its a lot to take in but in this case all positive
My mum miscarried a girl in between my elder brother and me, they were planning on a two child family...
Found out recently that my grandmother was Anglo-Indian. It was a point of embarrassment for her according to my mother, we're doing some searching and it may turn out that some family 'friends' in ****stan may be more than friends...exciting times TBH
nickc- are you famous? You could get the BBC to pay for a trip to find your rellies!
My mum divorced her first husband (father to my three sisters) after he had an affair with her mum, my grandmother.
My dad's (my mums second husband) father went to war for WW2. his mother (my other grandmother)used to have men round a lot at night during that time. I guess times were hard....
you'd never have guessed what they were both like, looking at them in their 80's!
Now many many years ago when I was twenty-three
I was married to a widow who was pretty as can be
This widow had a grown-up daughter who had hair of red
My father fell in love with her and soon they too were wed
This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life
My daughter was my mother 'cause she was my father's wife
To complicate the matter even though it brought me joy
I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy
My little baby then became a brother-in-law to Dad
And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad
For if he was my uncle, then that also made him br'ther
Of the widow's grown-up daughter who was also my stepmother
Father's wife then had a son who kept them on the run
And he became my grandchild, for he was my daughter's son
My wife is now my mother's mother and it makes me blue
Because altho' she is my wife, she's my grandmother too
Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild
And every time I think of it, it nearly drives me wild
For now I have become the strangest case I ever saw
As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa
I dont understand why people lie by omission to thier kids over stuff that is comparatively harmless if told, but distressing to the kids later if its been withheld. If you grow up with knowledge it is just information, not some dread scary thing revealed to you like it was evil.
A carefully discussed issue can be positive. In my family a young girl found out in very distressing circumstances that her grandfather killed her grandmother then committed suicide. It was something that had been 'covered up' for years. As a result she was very distressed. The correct alternative would have been to tell her about it in a calm setting, explaining about shell shock from wars and about mental health issues and that the situation was sad, but these things happen.
But instead, once the truth was accidentally out, the girl was told by her mother that she had to give her word she would never tell her brother the truth about the grandparents. She was only about 12. She was left distressed, compromised and used. The way the adults around her behaved was despicable, all because they had been taught to fear the (sad but totally harmless) truth.
Give pause for though about the consequences of secrets and of what your kids might be put through later, when they find out your lies. Why break their trust in you over silly things like divorces and illegitimate kids?
Why hurt them to save yourself some minor discomfort?
I discovered that I once had an elder brother, but he died soon after he was born.
I didn't discover this until my late father told me about him some 40 years later.
I don't think it was meant to be a secret, but you can imagine how my parents would have felt about it. I'm sure they wanted to forget about the whole sorry affair and so why prolong things by having the subject dug up again and again?
They pobably also didn't want to upset us either.
Knowing this made me realise how lucky I am.
Everyone has secrets..... everyone!
I don't think this is generally a bad thing. When exactly is the right to broach events from a families past? In some ways there never is a good time?
Midnighthour you mentioned this young girl was 12 years old when she accidentaly found about the truth. At what age would you have preferred her to find out about a family Murder/suicide? 12 years old is still young.
Maybe the family were waiting untill she was older to tell her the news. I wouldn't really say it was decpicable for them to keep it from her at that age. Just out of interest how old was the brother who she had to keep it from? I'm assuming under 12yrs.
At some stage I will have to tell my kids that their Grandad / my Dad took his own life. I've never really thought about it to be honest but after you mention this it does make me wonder when will the right time be. I certainly won't be making a big deal about it though and sitting them down for a chat. I imagine at some stage they'll start to ask questions. At that point I guess i'll decide for myself if I think they're old enough to take it all in. Who know's
I married my grandmother, then divorced her after I realised she was having an affair with my ex wife. I then proceeded to marry my cousin Mary, but found out she wasn't really my cousin, but my sister. I didn't mind too much though, her cooked breakfasts were great.
We don't keep any secrets in our family, we're very open in our relationships. I'm now married to uncle Bernie, I thought her name stood for 'Bernadette' but it turns out it stands for 'Bernard.' There's nothing civil about that partnership, let me tell you.
At some stage I will have to tell my kids that their Grandad / my Dad took his own life.
Do you? What's so wrong with keeping stuff like that a secret?
Do you? What's so wrong with keeping stuff like that a secret?
Nothing wrong with keeping it a secret but the way he died is not something to be ashamed of and has been a huge part of my life so i'm sure it will come out at some point.
If they ask and I feel they are old enough to take it in then I'll tell them. I'm not going to lie to my children and the fact that he was in his 40's when he died is bound to bring the whole "how did he die" question at some point. Apart from that its a matter of public record on his death certificate so something they could easily find out at any point when doing a family tree for instance. Something like this I would want them to hear from me and not find out they've been lied too.
Aracer, lots of other reasons for and against I am sure, but if you ever see someone for your own mental health problems, a family history is of great value to your assessment and treatment. Just because you don't know your granparent took their own life that doesn't mean you may not still be more predisposed to do so yourself for both biological and psychosocial reasons. It is somenthing else to get preoccupied about of course, but as a professional I would still rather know that about my own family than not know.