MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
So a 'friend' on Facebook posted a video of some chavs in a corsa or something, one leant out of the window and pushed an old man off his bike into a hedge row.
I unfriended him and reported it to Facebook as 'promoting violence'. But apparently attempted murder doesn't breach their community guidelines.
What the actual...
that's odd, I reported a very similar sounding video a couple of years ago, and they did remove it.
But you're right anyway, FB are still a bunch of shits
It is indeed.
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation, you might say.
Rubbish... It is people that are dicks... Gob-book is just a tool.
It is like saying cars are weapons of mass destruction.
Cheers!
I.
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation, you might say.
The drug of the nation!
Gob-book is just a tool.
No... systems can and do change people.
To be honest I think its the internet in general. Some awful comments get made here at times too.
It is like saying cars are weapons of mass destruction.
In a way they are...
Yeah... Attacking people on their own...
Sorry, not buying it at all. People are making things as they are. Systems, tools or cars are tools only...
Cheers!
I.
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation, you might say.
Breaks out the blue and white 👍
I have a fb friend from when we were about 8yo to remind me both how lovely and horrible people can be, as they say know your enemy.
To be fair I'm currently finding FB quite a nice place, I've it locked down to friends (I don't add many people to that group) non of which seem to be morons and well moderated groups, mostly cycling and EV stuff.
Systems, tools or cars are tools only…
All effect their users behaviour. The more prevalent the use of the system/tool/cars, the more our behaviour is changed yet the harder it is to observe the effect, because it is “normal”.
I have blood on my hands - says former Facebook employee
Gob-book is just a tool.
Uh-huh, so if you had a tool that chopped people's fingers off because it was broken or dangerous, you'd do something about it right? Put it behind a guard, regulate it?
I'd have expected him to have his account blocked, or at the very least removal of the post.. But no, just a recommendation that I ignore such behaviour.
For context, the video was posted with him saying that the old boy deserved it accompanied by some laughing emojies.
The good thing about arsebook is the way it’s useful in filtering out casual acquaintances that you actually wouldn’t associate with if you knew them better.
Sorry, not buying it at all. People are making things as they are. Systems, tools or cars are tools only…
Stanford Prison Experiment.
And, Nazis.
Godwin before page 2.
It's 2020, just ditch FB
Yeah… Attacking people on their own…
But big ass bombs or chemical weapons don't kill people on their own, they have to be deployed by someone. When it comes to cars WE are the deployers and the victims....
Don't get me wrong. I'm not getting rid of mine just yet though!
FB is shit though, I got rid about 6 years ago.
I unfriended him and reported it to Facebook as ‘promoting violence’. But apparently attempted murder doesn’t breach their community guidelines.
They let a man blow his head off with a shotgun during a livestream then left the video up for over an hour afterwards even though his friend warned them in advance that he needed help and the police were in attendance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54176205
But they can take down a video that breaches copyright within a matter of minutes.
To believe that social media is anything other than another way to sell you crap you don't need and to farm data and information from people to sell them more crap they don't need is naive, and you could ask "well what can they sell from the video of the twonks in the Corsa pushing an old man off his bike?".......probably ad space for Corsas and bikes.
Social media was a fun experiment, but it seems the swirling cesspool massivley outweighs the good it can do. Also, people are dicks
Rubbish… It is people that are dicks… Gob-book is just a tool.
To be fair I’m currently finding FB quite a nice place, I’ve it locked down to friends (I don’t add many people to that group) non of which seem to be morons and well moderated groups, mostly cycling and EV stuff.
Thuis
My facebook is a place of fun, entertainment, positivity and support. Anyone who posts unpleasantness gets blocked.
Rubbish… It is people that are dicks… Gob-book is just a tool.
It is like saying cars are weapons of mass destruction.
Cheers!
I.
This is a poor analogy.
We know that content that makes people angry or fearful gets more engagement. It just does. Facebook does better the more angry and confrontational content there is. More engagement, more users, more data, more ad revenue. It is genuinely evil. If you remember back, it was you connected with your mates. Now I don't know any mates that post on there. Just a wasteland of adverts and content for folk to "comment" away on.
For your analogy to hold, car companies would have to somehow profit from people using their cars in bizarre and murderous ways. Which they don't.
FB is terrible at so many things, but looking for a rescue dog recently, many of the smaller local places use it to advertise their dogs way before they will update their websites or any other platform. So as much as it sucks and most of it should be ignored there are small pockets of usefulness out there!
Rubbish… It is people that are dicks… Gob-book is just a tool
Guns don't kill people, Rappers do!
Systems, tools or cars are tools only…
Agreed. Someone is by nature an antisocial twit who doesn't care for the safety and wellbeing of strangers. Giving them a car, or a facebook account reveals that nature to those around them (and can have actual physical effects on people around them) but does not change that the person is a twit who many centuries ago would have ridden their horse recklessly and thrown their chamberpot out of the window without looking.
EDIT - word that is one letter off twit is apparently verbotten.
Christ, FB users use the same arguments as the bloody NRA "my gun/facebook is totally fine, take away those other people's guns/facebook, they're the real bad actors..."
The good thing about arsebook is the way it’s useful in filtering out casual acquaintances that you actually wouldn’t associate with if you knew them better.
I found cutting my "friends" on FB from 300 to 30 made a huge difference to my quality of life, but Lord, they fill the gaps with some pretty random advertisements
I suggest everyone on this thread go watch "Social Dilemma" on Netflix.
Edit - especially those saying its "just a tool"
For those that think that systems can only "reveal" someone's nature, rather than shaping it, there have been plenty of experiments that suggest you are wrong. Your hunch does not trump the sum of human knowledge. Keep using Facebook, I do, but don't pretend that it isn't changing society, it is.
Guns don’t kill people, Rappers do!
I seen that in a documentary on BBC2
Trailwagger you just reminded me thanks. Tonight’s viewing.
I reported a page that is very anti-immigrant and a post on it that mocked a Syrian burning calling it a start. It’s. It against the Facebook guidelines even after an appeal.
For context, the video was posted with him saying that the old boy deserved it accompanied by some laughing emojies.
And Facebook made him do that, did it? Who would you blame if you saw it in person from a beer garden, the pub?
The problem isn't the medium. The problem is people and your lack of quality control over who your "friends" are. A lot of folk treat Facebook like Pokemon. For a while I had "friends" who I knew from school say, but haven't spoken to since leaving school, haven't spoken on Facebook ever, and probably never even said more than two words to them when I was actually at school with them at the time.
Get rid of all the morons and build yourself a nice little echo chamber and you'll never see stuff like that again.
People are dicks, yes, their behaviour is very sensitive to lots of factors. Social media (and cars!) bring out the worst in people due to the psychological effects of not being face to face with someone. That's why people can be nice as pie in the supermarket and act like total bastards as soon as they drive away.
Same with text based communication. When there's no face, the social parts of our brains aren't activated and we turn into arseholes. How many times have we heard 'oh he's alright in real life' about forum regulars?
... not that I'm saying Facebook itself is a bastion of righteousness, of course. But someone posting a video you don't like, they're your "friends."
Same with text based communication. When there’s no face, the social parts of our brains aren’t activated and we turn into arseholes. How many times have we heard ‘oh he’s alright in real life’ about forum regulars?
And the difference there being, as opposed to being on Facebook, as a reader you have no control over that.
(Well, I do, but y'know...😊)
The problem isn’t the medium. The problem is people and your lack of quality control over who your “friends” are.
I think we're saying the problem is actually the medium.
And Facebook made him do that, did it?
Milgram's electrocution experiment; they never "made" the general public give the chap in the chair what they thought was a deadly amount of volts, but almost all of them did it.
People are easily lead.
Facebook leads them.
Agreed. Someone is by nature an antisocial twit who doesn’t care for the safety and wellbeing of strangers. Giving them a car, or a facebook account reveals that nature to those around them (and can have actual physical effects on people around them) but does not change that the person is a twit who many centuries ago would have ridden their horse recklessly and thrown their chamberpot out of the window without looking.
That's not quite true through, is it? Facebook allows people (all people, good or bad) a forum to air their personality and behavior, but the structure of Facebook allows positive reinforcement (which is a far more powerful psychological effect) through the "Like" button, but does not allow for a simplistic dislike. In fact, most people respond to negative behavior through abstention (either saying nothing or unfollowing) meaning that all these people see is those people who share similar tendencies, reinforcing their viewpoint that their own behavior is okay. They don't include a dislike button because doing so would ultimately reduce user numbers as vile posts are voted down and people leave the site for various reasons.
Yes, facebook is a tool, but it's not a fair or balanced one, it's not a blade that cuts equally both ways, it's an axe which encourages use of one side more than the other as it's designed explicitly to do that.
Rubbish… It is people that are dicks… Gob-book is just a tool.
It is like saying cars are weapons of mass destruction.
Bit of a faulty analogy, really.
But even cars change the way people act.
The risks of killing and maiming others that folk decide are ok because they’re driving just don’t compare to what they’ll do in other settings.
Pleasant mumsy types who insist on cutting their kids grapes in half to avoid the risk of choking turn into foul mouthed hags yelling out their windows because they decide that someone held them up.
Which is awkward when you’re all going to the same school drop off...
Facebook certainly does influence the way folk act and what they’re willing to agree with, or look the other way over.
And to act as if it’s an innocent third party is naive at best.
As above - for me facebook is a place of fun, support and friendship. I don't see any of this toxic stuff. Its all about how you use it.
Get rid of all the morons and build yourself a nice little echo chamber and you’ll never see stuff like that again.
This approach also changes society. It's as powerful as the "let it all come at me" approach to using Facebook. The doc that Malvern Rider posted has a, not entirely successful, go at explaining why. But the means we use to create silos (I do the the same as you) on Facebook, and how they are used by Facebook itself and those they are selling access to us to, are damaging to ourselves and others.
It's an absolute cesspit, deactivating my account was the best thing I ever did. The way people can be manipulated and the way it polarises any argument is horrendous, and we are only just waking up to how damaging it is.
Or use the kill file.
But seriously, can you see why people use anti-tracking and other script blocking plugins? I currently have an anti Facebook tracker running and it has made a serious difference to the amount of crap I see.
Molgrips is right though, far too often the medium is depersonalised to the point people stop acting like its a real human being they are talking to and as a result turn into thoroughly unpleasant people.
Its all about how you use it
You seem quite aware of how to personalise your experience.
Which makes you the minority.
Its all about how you use it
This sounds to me like a functional heroin addict arguing they don't have a problem.
I think we’re saying the problem is actually the medium.
Who knew that Marshall McLuhan knew what he was talking about 56 years ago? 🙄
It means that the nature of a medium (the channel through which a message is transmitted) is more important than the meaning or content of the message.
McLuhan tells us that a "message" is, "the change of scale or pace or pattern" that a new invention or innovation "introduces into human affairs".[9]
McLuhan understood "medium" as a medium of communication in the broadest sense: "The instance of the electric light may prove illuminating in this connection. The electric light is pure information. It is a medium without a message, as it were, unless it is used to spell out some verbal ad or name (McLuhan M. Understanding Media). The light bulb is a clear demonstration of the concept of "the medium is the message": a light bulb does not have content in the way that a newspaper has articles or a television has programs, yet it is a medium that has a social effect; that is, a light bulb enables people to create spaces during nighttime that would otherwise be enveloped by darkness. He describes the light bulb as a medium without any content. McLuhan states that "a light bulb creates an environment by its mere presence".[6] Likewise, the message of a newscast about a heinous crime may be less about the individual news story itself (the content), and more about the change in public attitude towards crime that the newscast engenders by the fact that such crimes are in effect being brought into the home to watch over dinner.[10]
I don’t see any of this toxic stuff. Its all about how you use it.
While I don't doubt that some folk have FB nailed down so that it's more or less muzzled, but that you have to work your way through reams of menus and settings to make it turn off "toxic stuff" and not the other way around, surely tells you everything you need to know about it...
I use FB every day, don't see anything toxic nor anything which offends me. I do see loads of interesting posts and articles and share photos and memories with friends. I also use it to sell bike bits. I really like it.
I`ll just leave this here
This approach also changes society. It’s as powerful as the “let it all come at me” approach to using Facebook.
Sure. But that's an entirely different argument to the OP's.
Facebook was instrumental, albeit indirectly, in facilitating both the rise of Trump and Brexit. Without its ability to personally target propaganda (based on data scraped by a third party app) in a manner which meant that anyone who might object to the content never even saw it, it's almost a certainty that neither would have happened.
But the OP's complaint was "one of my friends shared a video I didn't like" and that's jeff all to to with the platform and everything to do with whose output you choose to read.
You seem quite aware of how to personalise your experience.
Which makes you the minority.
You're suggesting that the majority of Facebook users don't know how to remove people from their friends list or leave groups they don't like? We're doomed as a species if so.
That's the only "personalisation" I've done aside from forcing my news feed into date order and enabling the Dark theme. Have a guess how often I see videos of old men on bikes being pushed into hedgerows.
Stop friending arseholes. Leave groups which contain arseholes and don't benefit from the world-class moderation enjoyed by STW's forums. Satiate your right index finger. This isn't rocket surgery.
Stop friending arseholes. Stop being members of groups which contain arseholes.
This. It's really very simple, just don't have anything to do with arseholes.
(Sorry, minor ninja edit.)
but that you have to work your way through reams of menus and settings to make it turn off “toxic stuff” and not the other way around, surely tells you everything you need to know about it…
Never had to do that. 2 things probably make a difference. I do not allow any tracking cookies ever and I unfriend anyone who does not improve my life.
But the OP’s complaint was “one of my friends shared a video I didn’t like”
It wasn't. It was about FB's (lack of) response to the video.
I'm online in a cosy little echo chamber of like minded individuals. Crazy I know but I used Facebook's friend concept as exactly that and am on friends with people I'm friends (and family, what left I have) with. We all rub along very nicely in my facebook world.
True, I was blindsided by both the brexit vote and the Trump election but other than that it's all roses.
I`ll just leave this here
I've just typed up a long reply to this and then accidentally deleted it all after fat-fingering Notepad so instead I'll just say, correlation does not equal causation. Without seeing the report and analysis behind it that graph is worthless. And what does "social media available on mobile" even mean?
https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
It wasn’t. It was about FB’s (lack of) response to the video.
Fair, and I've had some disappointing responses to things I've reported previously also. But it's impossible for me / us to know whether FB's response (ie, one of their front-line minions whose job it is to deal with this stuff) was the correct one in this specific instance.
It's often very, very difficult to know where to draw the line when it comes to censoring online content. Oddly enough, I do have a little experience in this area.
I dunno about the figures up there but there is loads of actual evidence about how harmful 'social media' is in terms of increased bullying, anxiety, depression, body image issues, narcissism, social division. Have a look for yourself.
Never mind stuff like this https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/paedophile-vigilante-hunter-police-child-sexual-abuse-simon-bailey-a8908111.html
People smugly saying 'well it's ok for me' is just an expression of privilege.
People smugly saying ‘well it’s ok for me’ is just an expression of privilege.
Or they're just not an insecure, angst ridden teenager struggling to cope with finding their place in world. Figuring out that it doesn't matter two hoots what other people think of you is indeed a great privalege.
People who think Facebook haven’t changed them… well, that’s what we all think. That’s what I thought. There will be no epiphany. You need to have it explained by someone external to your experiences. Every user thinks that they are one of the users who are unaffected. It isn’t true. Start with the doc that Malvern Rider linked to… it’s flawed, but it’s accessible.
Social media as a whole maybe one of the biggest cancers on modern civilised society.
Fingers crossed...
I think Milgram has been called into question
And what does “social media available on mobile” even mean?
Social media predates smart phones. So I presume it is indicating where social media and smart phones came together, which is a key point in history if you’re going to look at the effects of social media as regards young people. I know nothing about that report and graph though. Links would be useful, wouldn’t they…
Social media predates smart phones. So I presume it is indicating where social media and smart phones came together
But none of those things are a single point in time. Which social medium? Which mobile phone?
I’ve just seen the red army (yep, that one) choir sing Tom Jones’ ‘Sex Bomb’ on social media.
Were it not for SM, I may never have seen it, which would have been a travesty.
For a long time, I've fought against removing people who post things I don't agree with on FB - sure, it means I'm building my own cosy social media bubble, but it also means I'm reinforcing theirs and, well.... Brexit and Trump. But I think I'm done with it - I just have a sense of almost constant anger, I find I'm looking for people to post things to argue against, and I'm not by nature zn argumentative person (offline, anyhow).
I think Milgram has been called into question
And the Stanford prison experiment.
Yes people can be dicks and pushing someone over from a car is 100% down to the individual. But to say that social media doesnt change society is highly naive. Look at all the lunatics who follow stuff like QAnon and Flat Earth and the the general polarisation between left and right wing politics. All driven by an idea that can easily be spread and then hardens in echo chambers. We all form opinions and outlooks based on what we can see for ourselves (its raining outside) and what we are told (there is a war in Syria). So if your news feed is someone like Alex Jones then you are going to develop a different world view. It's not just simply showing us a mirror on ourselves, its shaping us as well.
Sure. But that’s an entirely different argument to the OP’s.
Facebook was instrumental, albeit indirectly, in facilitating both the rise of Trump and Brexit. Without its ability to personally target propaganda (based on data scraped by a third party app) in a manner which meant that anyone who might object to the content never even saw it, it’s almost a certainty that neither would have happened.
But the OP’s complaint was “one of my friends shared a video I didn’t like” and that’s jeff all to to with the platform and everything to do with whose output you choose to read.
Starting with the latter ... I expect it will drift to the former...
You don't choose who's output to read ... you only influence it and blocking individuals isn't always possible in reality nor is it IMHO (will discuss last) the best thing for "the country".
My kids primary communicate all sorts via FB. Myself and OH and 5-6 other parents spent an hour in the sportsfield having carried a load of stuff for the summer fete.
After waiting probably an hour(ish) OH texted the head who said "didn't you see the FB post it's cancelled"
Anyway, roll on the day after the referendum when my kids teacher from reception posted about how his mother will be "sent home" (indirectly - not naming his mother but referring to foreigners)
Before everyone pipes in she isn't racist and many of her real life friends are immigrants and foreigners.... she apologised and in "real life" as well as many of her "real life friends" are actually in that category and she is in real life a wonderfully supportive person to everyone. In particular she was instrumental in the employment of several staff members of all minorities through her personal support.
So HOW THE F*** did she even get to that?
Quite simply because she was in an echo chamber for months... that she had drifted into for reasons nothing to do with Brexit or immigration, simply because many people who shared her views on primary education "just happened" to be pro-Brexit.. or did they "just happen" or as I view more likely were targeted and groomed like her.
Another ex-friend is devoutly religious (even more so since retirement) and I am pretty convinced he was dragged into being a Brexiteer through his views on femnale bishops. He's also a diabetic ... go figure?
I've never had or wanted FB and I ditched twitter in Jan. All that BS is still out there but I try not to expose myself to it now. Trying to avoid the silo view. I get that people have different views I always have, but the division that social media now creates seems to be more and more destructive to society (if society still exists, you only ever hear of nations being described as economies these days, we are no longer a people) and the control that bots and algorithms have is skewing views of many people to a dangerous perspective.
I shall continue to avoid it.
Facebook was instrumental, albeit indirectly, in facilitating both the rise of Trump and Brexit. Without its ability to personally target propaganda (based on data scraped by a third party app) in a manner which meant that anyone who might object to the content never even saw it, it’s almost a certainty that neither would have happened.
Big tech using personal data of users to make money has been happening for a long time. Way before the 2016. Be honest, if Hillary would have won the elections and Brexit would have failed, none of you would give two flying shits about it. On the other hand, its good that a significant percentage of the population has finally (although maybe too late) woken up on this topic.
I'm a member of three mountain bike groups on Facebook and an astronomy group, all of which are very well moderated. I've got about 100 or so contacts, mostly ex-students who gained their Phd's in the labs I've worked in, old friends and a few family members. I don't have any of the news feeds turned on.
I don't 'friend' anyone unless they are an actual friend, and if someone is on my list who's views I don't share, I either stop following their posts, or remove them.
My facebook feed is pretty much bikes, telescopes, cats, dogs, birthdays and babies.
I fully appreciate that it can be toxic, but surely that'll only happen if you let it?
C.
The thing that did it for me is when some groups I enjoyed using started getting weird Qanon type ultra right wing conspiracy theory stuff being posted.
I also have lots of 'friends' I know through photographing festivals etc and yes I could be more selective, but in my opinion this kind of stuff is increasing in its frequency and how extreme it is, amongst people who previously appeared to be fairly liberal/sensible. The fact that it's possible not to see this doesn't mean it's not very concerning.
And yes I'm sure both sides on Trump/Brexit used social media research/manipulation but sadly it's much easier to prey on people's most base instincts.
There's a lot of very rich people with vested interests in eroding things like financial regulation and workers rights, environmental protection etc.
Whipping up some nativist anger is an easy way to achieve this apparently.
I don’t ‘friend’ anyone unless they are an actual friend, and if someone is on my list who’s views I don’t share, I either stop following their posts, or remove them.
My facebook feed is pretty much bikes, telescopes, cats, dogs, birthdays and babies.
I fully appreciate that it can be toxic, but surely that’ll only happen if you let it?
Too complicated dood!
Be honest, if Hillary would have won the elections and Brexit would have failed, none of you would give two flying shits about it.
To some extent that might be correct but underlying this is a realisation that whoever won either did so with foreign support and subversive ads/posts...
So perhaps removing names and just calling these "democratic type events"... it seems that whoever wins whatever in future it is down to social media funded misinformation that cannot be countered because it's only seen by those in the bubbles.
Thank God Facebook came along. It used to take me ages to ring round all of my friends and tell them my status.
I accept that some folks might be exposed to 'toxic' content. Can't say I ever have. Just mates having adventures, knocking out babies and messing about on boats and on bikes.
Seems that very few of my friends push toxic ideas, except a few that always post inspirational quotes, but I soon got rid of them. 😉
Most of us can just sit in our comfortable little edited bubble but lots of people don't have that privilege and this stuff affects them in real life: immigrant children in the US for instance, or the disabled people who won't get care here because we spaffed all our money on lorry parks for Brexit.
No, Facebook really isn't toxic. Some people are toxic, you just get to see it on social media and this is a good thing as it means the decent people can see their true personality and avoid them.
Facebook (and social media in general) can be great, there are some really good stories about how good things spread and it urges people to step in and contribute. Sir Tom Moore for example.
it means the decent people can see their true personality
This in itself is a toxic idea.
People in general are highly susceptible to social cues. So, without these cues they are always less charitable and more likely to be negative. This isn't because they are actually bad people, it's because that's human nature.
Instead of writing people off as simply bad, we should try and find a way to encourage positive behaviours such as understanding and generosity. Germany became a better place after the war. How? Did all the Hitler supporters die? No. People just had their collective consciences activated. Consciences they still had even before the war.
A man on his bike was knocked off and killed by drivers racing a couple of years ago on Kirkstall Road in Leeds. He was killed instantly and lay dead at the side of the road, obviously no one even tried to help him instead they were all filming it etc on their phones.
Well, within the next few minutes the footage was all over Facebook for his family to see. It took days and personal appeals to Mark Zuckerberg to get it taken off all platforms which it was eventually. People are such utter ****s these days its shocking.
People in general are highly susceptible to social cues. So, without these cues they are always less charitable and more likely to be negative. This isn’t because they are actually bad people, it’s because that’s human nature.
I don't agree. There's clearly a debate to be had over whether humans are good only because there's social pressure to be so. Humans have clearly evolved to act cooperatively, and that's not inconsistent with self-interest.