I think that thing that both you and @Bez are alluding to is that Frank Williams and Patrick Head were more interested in running the operation as their personal fiefdom, had no real management skills to speak of, told big fat whoppers to drivers/engineers/designers in negotiations when it suited them, and denied all knowledge when they were (often) caught out by the same drivers/engineers/designers after the event, and tried to stiff everybody at every opportunity regardless.
Heh! No, that's not what I was alluding to... 🙂 I don't think many succesful F1 teams have been run by shy and retiring types, but Williams kind of felt like the last team where the top brass were hands-on with every aspect they could, rather than delegating - just slow to move with the times, I guess. I'm not sure if either were particularly nice men, but that wasn't their job, and they were a long way from being the only team owners with an unpleasant streak.
The most baffling thing was losing Adrian Newey.
Yes, utterly bonkers and unnecessary. On a scale of bad decisions it makes things like Honda’s withdrawal in 2008 and Szafnauer’s bungling of the Piastri contract look like works of tactical genius.
Heh! No, that’s not what I was alluding to…
It’s pretty much bang on what I was alluding to 🙂
I love that!! Hilarious and spot on!
I only discovered the channel a couple of weeks ago (after Austria).
Williams & Mansell: Red 5 is on BBC2.
Williams & Mansell: Red 5 is on BBC2.
When is/was it on? Can't see it on iPlayer.
My apologies, it was on a Sky channel. Its now available on Now TV / Sky replays. Good program emotional in places.
A good watch, a reminder of a golden period for the sport
Stefano Domenicali presents "Another Shit Idea"
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-considering-grand-slam-idea-for-sprint-races-in-2024/10495641/
thepurist
Full MemberPerhaps more appropriately
😁
If they are "minor breaches" and the penalty is harsher than Red Bull's, the fallout is going to be spectacular.
Do you want to reduce time?
Add money
Has anyone seen anything about the Silverstone fender test that was supposed to happen a week or so ago? Expected a few photos to emerge but not seen or heard anything at all…?
Nope - nothing, not even spy shots on twitter.
I know it's wet at Silverstone(!) but wouldn't Paul Ricard be a better place to test this? They can soak the track as much as they want and test for varying degrees of wetness.
Nowt, I will ask on F1t. I did read that it was Mick Schumacher that would be testing them for Merc, but heard nothing else.
It'll be interesting to see if anyone asks Max this weekend about his hissy-fit during the e-sports 3 hour endurance race he was doing last week where he threw his toys out of the pram, cut the course & rammed someone off the track 🙂
I've not seen anything about those mudguard tests, either.
I prattle on about how 2023 F1 cars aren't as appealing as their early 90s counterparts, but in part that's because I'm an old biffer. The cars are damn near a metre and a half too long, they weigh the same as a 1970s Volkswagen Polo and the aural drama is sorely lacking (IMHO - opinions vary).
The sport has this impossible job of needing to be relevant to mass manufacturers R&D and the expectations of their audience. I'd love to hear a V10 or V12 race again, but sustainable ICE fuel will be meaningless to the people who'll be shopping for cars in 2028.
But.
PJM1974
Free MemberI prattle on about how 2023 F1 cars aren’t as appealing as their early 90s counterparts, but in part that’s because I’m an old biffer. The cars are damn near a metre and a half too long, they weigh the same as a 1970s Volkswagen Polo and the aural drama is sorely lacking (IMHO – opinions vary).
The sport has this impossible job of needing to be relevant to mass manufacturers R&D and the expectations of their audience. I’d love to hear a V10 or V12 race again, but sustainable ICE fuel will be meaningless to the people who’ll be shopping for cars in 2028.
But.
Interesting to see what effect having only 6 gears would have, more of a changing tone rather than a steady drone I guess. But end of the day, it's rare to have a decent sounding turbo engine. Sustainable fuel + normally aspirated V8/V10/V12 would be lovely.
Heads are starting to roll at Renault
Hungarian Grand Prix: Laurent Rossi replaced as Alpine CEO by Philippe Krief - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66262365
The cars are damn near a metre and a half too long, they weigh the same as a 1970s Volkswagen Polo
But they aren't killing their drivers, so there's that.
nickc
But they aren’t killing their drivers, so there’s that.
Okay but these things aren't mutually exclusive: take the safety changes out such as the halo and anti-intrusion system, and take out the driver ballast increase, there's still 150KG unaccounted for since the refuelling ban, most of which is in the hybrid powertrain and wider tyres.
Oh and regarding the mudguard test, no pics but here's a bit from AMuS:
The MCL60 was on the road without a fender to make a comparison. The result: The rain test with the covers was a failure. There was still too much spray. And according to observers, the aesthetics of the fenders are said to have left to be desired. The world association FIA has not published pictures of the test so far.
The rulekeepers are in the dilemma. They experimented with fenders in Silverstone, which did not cover all the rear tyres. These could not really contain the water and distributed it in different directions.
None of the variations brought satisfactory results. "We are not where we want to be yet," says FIA circles. On the other hand, it was only the first test run. With the experience gained, better solutions could be created in the future.
there’s still 150KG unaccounted for since the refuelling ban, most of which is in the hybrid powertrain and wider tyres.
I'd imagine most of that extra 150kg is the bigger fuel tank, (2008 Massa ripping the hose off the refuelling rig as he exited the pits with it still attached) all the powertrain bits and bobs and the generally larger structure you need in order to accommodate and support all the safety features and larger tyres - which in turn need larger suspension and so on, longer noses that protect drivers feet are bigger - You only need to watch Kubica's 2007 crash once when the front got ripped off and you can see his feet dangling in the air, to make you queasy
I mean I know what you mean, it's hard to watch Vettel screaming up the FoS course in Senna's MP4 and not feel the pang of nostalgia, but at least this grid line up of F1 drivers get to retire.
Sustainable fuel + normally aspirated V8/V10/V12 would be lovely.
I think that ship has sailed now. New regs are leaning to more hybrid so that will be the regs until early 2030's.
They're not going to scrap the new engine formula - manufacturers have been attracted to F1 based on them.
nickc
Full MemberI’d imagine most of that extra 150kg is the bigger fuel tank, (2008 Massa ripping the hose off the refuelling rig as he exited the pits with it still attached) all the powertrain bits and bobs and the generally larger structure you need in order to accommodate and support all the safety features and larger tyres – which in turn need larger suspension and so on, longer noses that protect drivers feet are bigger – You only need to watch Kubica’s 2007 crash once when the front got ripped off and you can see his feet dangling in the air, to make you queasy
I mean I know what you mean, it’s hard to watch Vettel screaming up the FoS course in Senna’s MP4 and not feel the pang of nostalgia, but at least this grid line up of F1 drivers get to retire.
i was comparing to a year after the refuelling ban.
Anyway, you seem to be thinking I want the safety features removed, I don't. I want the cars to be made as light as possible though simplifying the powertrain, and being physically smaller.
The FIA appear to be thinking the same way, having cut the wheelbase by a foot and removing the MGUH from the engine.
the-muffin-man
I think that ship has sailed now. New regs are leaning to more hybrid so that will be the regs until early 2030’s.
They’re not going to scrap the new engine formula – manufacturers have been attracted to F1 based on them.
Posted 10 minutes ago
Oh, for sure, it's just wistful ramblings. We're stuck with the dysons for now.
I think Hybrid is increasingly losing manufacturer relevance though, and IIRC Formula E has exclusive rights to an electric only powertrain until 2040 ish (with the obvious caveat that money talks).
Perez in the barrier within the first 5 minutes of practice. Wheel on grass, car a bit broken. Oops.
Anyway, you seem to be thinking I want the safety features removed, I don’t.
No, I don't think that anyone thinks the safety features should be removed do they? I was just talking about where I think the weight's stacking up from
want the cars to be made as light as possible though simplifying the powertrain, and being physically smaller.
So do all the teams. The only limit on the size is width 200cm height 95cm and must not exceed length of 5m, if they teams could build a smaller car they would, but it would still have to meet the weight limit - must weight more than 800kg with the driver - which was introduced to stop larger drivers starving themselves, and all the safety, fuel cell and drivetrain elements. I reckon these cars are probably about as small as its possible to get them under the current formula
Edited to make sense
that'll polish out 🤣
What happened d'you know?
What happened d’you know?
Clumsily put 2 wheels on the grass, spun into the barriers.
Ouch, That's not going help his chances of keeping his seat! I'll bet Horner's got a face on him right now!
multi21Free Member
Oh and regarding the mudguard test, no pics but here’s a bit from AMuS:
Good find, thanks for that! Shame there's no pics but hopefully something will appear after the next time they test them. Would be interesting to see the aesthetics.
skip to 00:52 for the replay
https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1682353893441675266
Hamilton fastest in FP3, Norris looking really fast too. Feels like Red Bull haven't really shown their hand yet tho
The interesting thing at the moment is McLaren. The Silverstone performance was always tempered with “ah, but it was the slower tracks that were really hurting them anyway”. So far looking like they’ve really turned it all around
Feels like Red Bull haven’t really shown their hand yet tho
The gap from verstappen to perez is suspiciously small...
Wonder if ricciardo can keep that gap to yuki in quali
The Race has put up an article on the fender test, including some illustrations of what they looked like..
https://the-race.com/formula-1/first-look-at-prototype-f1-car-spray-guards-after-initial-test/
Going to be a bit of a mixed up grid. Russell out in Q1, Sainz out in Q2.
GET IN THERE LEWIS!!! 😀
