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Horner's bleating really does him few favours. He wouldn't be the first team principal to be guilty of that (Ron Dennis), he should also remember that the only other seven time world champ twice nerfed opponents off the track.
Absolutely this – he made two sharp turns of his steering wheel when he knew Hamilton was there and paid the price.
You've got to remember the time delta here though. At the first turn in MV was going for the racing line, he didn't know where LH was. When he noticed the Merc alongside, he backed off the steering. The second, what people are seeing as aggressive turn-in, is at least in part due to the fact that they're substantially further into the corner and MV now needs more lock to get around the corner without going off line and loosing too much speed. Lewis by this point is too fast and at too shallow an angle to carry as much speed into the corner and so has to brake earlier. MV turns across the nose of LH, just as LH starts to get his understeer under control. MV accelerates around the front of LHs car, but LH isn't turning as much as MV as he's again fighting understeer. MV overlaps LH front wheel and it's contact and a spin.
Just a racing incident. Once again, the kerbs and the near useless gravel traps make for a big accident whereas the funny sandpaper at Paul Ricard woul'd likely have slowed MV much more.
Always we see cars launched by a kerb and then skipping like a stone on water over the gravel.
What it *does* prove, and it’s far from the first incident to do so, is that if you’re going to buy a ticket for Silverstone, you should buy one for Copse 😀
For CH to say well this is different because it’s Copse and one simply doesn’t drive up the inside at Copse is bollocks. Max would have made exactly the same move as LH and had there been contact Red Bull would be saying LH turned in on him.
However it’s clear that CH wasn’t doing that, he will just defend his drivers no matter how much he has to exaggerate and forget what has happened at previous races
It's the same in any sport when there's foul play. Coaches and managers have to put on a public display of supporting their team even when they know that their side is guilty as sin. Nobody takes what they say seriously.
You write much that makes lots of sense apart from
he didn’t know where LH was
He knew exactly where Hamilton was – just before the corner they were almost alongside each other but Verstappen chose to turn in anyway, hoping that Hamilton would pull out of the move (like he did in the sprint race on Saturday in very similar circumstances).
he will just defend his drivers no matter
Good, that's what you want in the fight for the Championship, a boss (that in public at least) fights like a bulldog in your corner. Nowt wrong with that.
There is no doubt about MV's speed but he's still making clumsy mistakes. He could have avoided that and he probably had the speed to win over the race but chose to try and force Lewis into backing out, except lewis was basically too committed. It even looks as if Lewis is trying to back out but then isn't given room.
Max has previously said something about 'if you don't concede we'll collide' type thing. I'm sure other drivers have made the same comments. Ultimately he lost 25 points.
Lando and Leclerc managed to not crash despite being passed in the same corner, so you can pass there. Horner was being a jerk saying you cant pass there. I get he's frustrated but some professionalism now and again may help.
also agree with C4 Red Bull bias. Great team but know who their paymasters are!
Max had much more downforce adn thus a much higher apex speed. Hamilton took too much speed in and understeered into max
When the hit max had given him a car and a half width - lewis missed the apex thats why lewis got the small penalty
Just another way of seeing it.
Good, that’s what you want in the fight for the Championship, a boss (that in public at least) fights like a bulldog in your corner.
There is robustly defending your driver and then there is accusing other drivers of stuff that didn't actually happen. Toto defended Lewis but didn't say Max was a mass murderer and had just made the worst, most dangerous move even seen in F1.
Lando and Leclerc managed to not crash despite being passed in the same corner, so you can pass there.
Yes =- and the man on the inside hit the apex and didn't run wide with understeer.
He knew exactly where Hamilton was
But he didn't really. He would've expected Hamilton to be heading towards the apex, he wouldn't have had a clue that he was understeering and following an odd path as a result (hence the FIA explanation)
dannybgoode
Full Member
There is robustly defending your driver and then there is accusing other drivers of stuff that didn’t actually happen. Toto defended Lewis but didn’t say Max was a mass murderer and had just made the worst, most dangerous move even seen in F1.
No, he was busy attempting to send info to Masi via a private means. Doubt he'd CC'd anyone at Red Bull and didn't hear that he visited the stewards with his evidence as Masi suggested
No, he was busy attempting to send info to Masi via a private means. Doubt he’d CC’d anyone at Red Bull and didn’t hear that he visited the stewards with his evidence as Masi suggested
I am on about about the interviews afterwards. CH was way way over the top of his criticism of Lewis. Toto kept a much cooler head
Of course he did, he'd just won the race. He's not going to bring more attention to the event when he can't possibly benefit any more.
Basically, they are all sneaky ****ers and would sell their Grannies if they thought it would get them the upper hand
Good, that’s what you want in the fight for the Championship, a boss (that in public at least) fights like a bulldog in your corner. Nowt wrong with that.
The way MV and CH have reacted here is not the way champions go about their business - it smacks of fear and an inferiority complex.
Surprised nobody had posted this yet. Crowd reaction seems pretty normal, they all know it’s a biggie
The way MV and CH have reacted here is not the way champions go about their business – it smacks of fear and an inferiority complex.
Yep.
https://twitter.com/DExpress_Sport/status/1417049109794545667
Surprised nobody had posted this yet. Crowd reaction seems pretty normal, they all know it’s a biggie
That's the only exciting moment of the entire F1 day out.
^^^ OOft, shit just got real
I don't see what's odd about that crowd reaction.
Edit: not sure if you were meaning it was somehow odd or not. But it seems normal enough, like when someone drops a tray in a canteen some folks go way-hey.
Max Verstappen unfollows Lewis Hamilton on Instagram after British Grand Prix crash
I’m sure Lewis will cry himself to sleep tonight over that revelation. 🤣
^^^ OOft, shit just got real
Ha, ha, unfollowing someone on social media must be the modern equivalent of getting your mate to tell your other mate that you're not talking to them any more.....
The problem with the Daily Express is that it's mainly written by cynics for the benefit of the lobotomised so I'd treat anything they publish or tweet as fiction until it's verified elsewhere first.
The view of the crash from the stand is quite terrifying, Max hardly slowed before thumping the tyre barrier. Regardless of what we might think of Max, it was a nasty impact.
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pipm1
Free MemberI don’t see what’s odd about that crowd reaction.
Edit: not sure if you were meaning it was somehow odd or not. But it seems normal enough, like when someone drops a tray in a canteen some folks go way-hey
There were earlier comment(s) saying the crowd cheered when Verstappen went off. Think the video shows the crowd in a good light; excited then muted
I’ve got five quid on “Christian Horner replies to Mercedes tweet with poo emoji” 👍
The noise the crowd made was *exactly* the noise any crowd at any motor racing event I've ever been to have made when there's been a big crash - nothing partisan about it.
Yep, there was an "oof!" when Max hit the tyre wall and some stood and clapped as the marshals went to help him from the car.
I don’t see what’s odd about that crowd reaction.
There's been a lot of fuss about the English/Hamilton fans supposedly cheering the crash, but it's pretty overblown from the videos I've seen. There's a kind of gasp as he goes off, then (on the video my mate who was there sent me) lots of booing presumably from Verstappen fans, followed by cheers and applause from everyone when he gets out seemingly unscathed.
There were earlier comment(s) saying the crowd cheered when Verstappen went off. Think the video shows the crowd in a good light; excited then muted
From where I was sat at Village (watching on the big screens at that point) there was an initial big cheer as he was coming up alongside and it looked like the moved was on followed by shouts of astonishment when it all went off. From what I could see on the big screen was a lot of dust and an onboard of Max's rear view that cut out and went static before the impact so no-one could really see just how hard it was. There was some sounds of relief when it was seen that Hamilton was still running then it all very much quietened down until it was clear from the commentary and screens that he was moving and able to get out. Big applause and cheers as he got out of the car.
Obviously a very different experience from being right next to the barrier where the impact was as it simply wasn't clear just how bad it had been, especially once they had pulled the car out and you could see the damage.
From my opinion it was a racing incident. Max could have left more space, backed out or gone over the tarmac run off if needed. Lewis was being optimistic but could have made it stick if Max had played a bit nicer. Both championship contenders refusing to back down. It was always going to happen at some point this season.
Red Bull doing a Priti here or am I being too harsh?
Really stretching things to say that Red Bull have anything at all to do with racist ****s abusing Hamilton. They might be annoyed with him (or its part of the act) but I'm not aware of race ever having anything to do with any of it. What a dumb post.
Really stretching things to say that Red Bull have anything at all to do with racist **** abusing Hamilton
Because of the way they basically accused him of attempted murder? Gave the trolls extra ammunition and they did nothing at all to try and diffuse the situation?
I think when the other drivers are saying it's a 50/50 incident what they really mean is "Max had it coming".
The reason he's had less crashes in the last couple of seasons isn't because he's got better as a driver, Its because other drivers have learned to stay well out of his way.
Far from being cowed by all the crap being thrown his way, Hamilton looks more energised and determined than ever and I swear Toto Wolf looked about 6 inches taller than usual in the post race interviews. Men and boys.
Though there's a rumour that CH is pissed because LH still owes him money... rent for all the time Lewis spends living in Horners head.
Because of the way they basically accused him of attempted murder? Gave the trolls extra ammunition and they did nothing at all to try and diffuse the situation?
Where does race come into that?
Because of the way they basically accused him of attempted murder?
1. I didn’t hear anything along those lines. Did they actually “basically accuse him” of that, or is that just people on social media blowing things out of proportion?
2. You do realise you can criticise, even hyperbolically, the actions of a person of another race whilst still abhorring racism, right?
In answer to your original question of “am I being too harsh?” Yes, you are. Stop trying to create some sort of ugly narrative that just isn’t there.
I'm no aficionado, but do watch racing when it's on and I'm passingly aware of the 'personalities'
Having read a few more articles this weekend and followed on here, this sounds a bit to me like school bully pushes everyone around and because no-one stands up to them keeps getting away with it. Until one day someone does and now they're whinging to teacher and moaning like a cry baby.
I though LH caused it, both could have avoided it, but the side by side videos do clearly show MV turning right. As he did two corners previously. Just this time LH thought sod it, I'm not getting pushed around forever.
"What a dumb post"
If Red Bull hadn't come out with all the bull in the first place then they wouldn't have to be tweeting out their disgust now. So the Pritti Patel analogy would be correct.
Not saying CH is being deliberately racist, just that he's a complete moron. You're either part of the problem or part of the solution.
I'm sure his sponsor is 'proud' of him.
As I said earlier, Red Bull gives you whinge.
Not saying CH is being deliberately racist
By qualifying that statement you seem to be rather implying that he’s being unintentionally racist.
What are you basing that on?
I broadly agreed with the BBC's take here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57882992
I'm not sure that Hamilton had as much choice as people make out - at some point he was going to have to 'not yield' to Verstappen else MV will be continuing to drive this aggressively. He picked the right moment it seems!
So the profit Patel analogy would be correct.
Apart from Patel works very much in the race business, RB do not.
If LH had deliberately shunted him off would RB not therefore be allowed to claim because of a racism issue they do not appear to be part of?
Stop trying to create some sort of ugly narrative that just isn’t there.
I am not saying that Red Bull were being even unintentionally racist but, as a global team they should think carefully about the kinds of comments and statements they put out there and how those may be used as ammunition by distasteful factions in society.
CH on no less than 3 occasions very publicly made some pretty wild accusations about LH's character and driving as did Max as did Marko - all of which helped fuel the abhorrent abuse that followed.
As I said in an earlier comment, robustly defending your employees (in this case driver) is one thing, chucking out hyperbolic rants about another team's driver - particularly in such a charged atmosphere - is unwise. Especially so when they are quite clearly bollocks.
CH on no less than 3 occasions very publicly made some pretty wild accusations about LH’s character and driving as did Max as did Marko – all of which helped fuel the abhorrent abuse that followed.
That’s what I was (genuinely) asking about, though: what actually are those three or more statements that you think directly feed racists?
It’s not like racists need anything to latch onto anyway. They’re racists: they just hate for no good reason, they need no reason. We can’t all stop saying things just in case a racist retweets it.
Lots of rules for drivers, maybe some rules needed for mud slinging team principles.
That’s what I was (genuinely) asking about, though: what actually are those three or more statements that you think directly feed racists?
They were very inflammatory and unfounded comments that were repeated and then reinforced on numerous occasions and yes, I think the whole Red Bull team were very unwise in the way they handled the matter and yes, when such comments were so explicitly aimed at a Black driver I can see it being fuel thrown on the fire.
These teams are meant to be media savvy enough to understand their words may be attached to more unpleasant comments later on and I feel, if you read the Red Bull statement, they have rowed back significantly from where they were yesterday saying it was hard racing etc and they have dropped the whole 'Lewis was trying to kill Max' narrative hence my comments.
Maybe I am being overly harsh - I am happy to accept that could be the case however I just feel they have handled the aftermath very poorly and put Lewis, unfairly, up as a target.
I used to quite like Horner for his honesty, but he has got whingier and whingier over the last few seasons.
He was really annoying me by his repeated use of the phrase ‘chucking a wheel up the inside’, implying that Hamilton out raked himself into the corner when in fact he had been much further up the inside and was essentially backing out/braking when Max turned in. And to keep going on about the consequences making a 10 sec penalty unjust is ridiculous - there have been hundreds of incidents that ended one driver’s race penalised with a 5 or 10 sec penalty previously. I’m sure Max has caused more than a few himself.
I’m sure a lot of the drivers are not too upset that finally someone stood up to Max, who has long been someone known for giving no quarter. Quite incredible that Hamilton drove away with virtually no damage.
Great that Max is ok, and should make the rest of the season even more interesting.