Forum menu
The impact had similarities to Hakkinen’s Adelaide shunt so I would imagine it resonated especially with him…
But, again, another driver calling it a racing incident:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.palmer-the-hamilton-verstappen-clash-polarised-opinion-but-i-believe-it-was.4YywgtRgaAvT9WUvXiKGCg.html
I’ve yet to see anyone other than Red Bull employees and social media gobshites saying otherwise, I think.
Redbull employees and the torygraph:
Not the fighter he was,” Bernie Ecclestone declared last week of Lewis Hamilton. That theory, at least, has been emphatically scotched by the seven-time world champion’s eighth Silverstone triumph, as dramatic and consequential as any in his vast canon of victories. But the question that will linger long after the champagne dries is whether this extraordinary twist in the 2021 world championship was fairly earned. For while the victor was cavorting with 140,000 fans, Max Verstappen, his vanquished title rival, was being checked over in a Northamptonshire hospital after a first-lap collision where stewards laid the blame squarely at the Mercedes driver’s door.
It was Christian Horner, Red Bull’s team principal, who levelled the claim that would rankle most deeply with Hamilton: “Dirty driving.” For 14½ seasons in Formula One, Hamilton has escaped almost any accusations of sharp practice, a distinction that works in his favour in the constant comparisons with Michael Schumacher, a competitor notorious for aggressive driving tactics. But his actions in the clash at Copse corner, which sent Verstappen spinning into a wall at 180mph and were deemed worthy by officials of a 10-second penalty, must surely count as a blot on his copybook.
The intensity of Verstappen’s impact, Horner disclosed, was measured at 51G, roughly five times the gravitational force to which fighter pilots are subject when they are performing loop-the-loops. Little wonder that he was described as “massively winded” in the aftermath, or that he had to be sent for further investigations. “I hope Lewis is happy with himself,” Horner said, acidly, dismissing a golden day for Hamilton as a “hollow victory”.
Hamilton, naturally, regarded it as anything but. He waved the Union flag, he communed with his ecstatic supporters in the Silverstone sunshine, he choked back tears as he spoke of his pride in the record-extending achievement at his home circuit. But while the high-fives were exchanged at Mercedes, a cold fury was building at Red Bull. “Dangerous” and “desperate”: that was Horner’s verdict on an accident from which Verstappen was fortunate to escape without more serious injury. It is a rare sight when Horner has to walk away from a TV interview, lest his rage lead him to say anything else he might regret.
To be sure, Hamilton’s was a move unworthy of a driver of his experience and reputation for fairness. His defence in the moment simply did not stack up. “I was ahead going in there, man”, he told his race engineer of his conduct at Copse, among the fastest corners anywhere in F1. Except frame-by-frame replays provided evidence to the contrary. His car was not ahead of Verstappen’s at any stage, while the nature of the contact – his front-left tyre to the Dutchman’s right-rear – suggested that he had been fighting a losing battle. The impression was that he was frustrated by his failure to execute the overtake earlier in the lap and that he tried to make amends at the most perilous point on the circuit.
Hamilton has seldom faced a duel of this ferocity in his career. Be in no doubt, this represents the stage at which the hostilities bubble over. Not only will it accentuate tensions with Verstappen, it will, as Horner’s body language makes abundantly clear, aggravate hostilities between Mercedes and Red Bull. After this agony, the challengers will be doubly intent on deposing the champions from their perch.
“The empire strikes back,” grinned Toto Wolff, after Hamilton had grasped an unexpected pole position for Silverstone’s maiden sprint race. Except he could hardly have guessed how quickly, in this most tempestuous British Grand Prix, his star driver would lurch across to the dark side.
So on one side we have erring on it being a racing incident:
Alonso
Hakkinen
Palmer
Leclerc
Karun Chandhok
Damon Hill
In the middle saying possibly Hamilton's fault we have
Ricciardo
Button
And on the other, saying it was attempted murder a clear penalty:
Christian Horner
Helmut Marko
Perez
TJ 😉
Redbull employees and the torygraph:
Oh, I don’t regard the rent-a-spin words of columnists in national rags as worthy of any merit at all, they’d write that it was Marcus Ericsson’s fault if someone paid them to.
Redbull employees and the torygraph:
"Noted black woke liberal elite remainer Lewis Hamilton's support for BLM proved to be a distraction when Hamilton deliberately drove into Max Verstappen (who isn't black) at the weekend... blah, blah, Extinction Rebellion, blah, blah, nurse, Hitler did lots of good things, blah, blah...a large whisky aged to perfection, blah, blah... Snaaaaake!"
retro - you forgot the stewards put the blame mainly on Hamilton with a bit on Max ( sorry i keep calling one by first names and one by surnames - it only means i cannot spell Maxs surname )
Ie Max could have avoided it but the main blame was Hamilton because he missed the apex cos he went in too hot.
Asking the Telegraph to write a fair and balanced piece about Lewis Hamilton is like asking them to take the knee.
Ie Max could have avoided it but the main blame was Hamilton because he missed the apex cos he went in too hot.
To be fair, he made the corner.
"Ie Max could have avoided it but the main blame was Hamilton because he missed the apex cos he went in too hot."
So you're saying Lewis couldn't avoid the collision and Max had the choice not to steer into him at 180 miles an hour but did anyhow?
It's a bit like being on your bike and a car coming at you out of control on the wrong side of the road and you dont take avoiding action because technically it's your right of way.
You're also likely to end up in hospital just like Maxy boy, (only you'll likely be in there for a little longer than a check up) but I'm sure the driver will get points on their licence so that's ok.
There's no rule that says you must take the apex of every corner. You can place your car anywhere as long as you leave a car's width.
Max needs to sort his head out or he'll never win a championship.
The one thing that this whole episode does demonstrate is that almost exactly 100% of people who post comments on sports social media posts are weapons grade ****s who at best can bring themselves to say “well, I suppose racism is bad, but…” and more frequently just seem to deny that racism is even a thing. And these days I only look at Instagram, I dread to think what the others are like. If there’s a god then I hope she’s got a back door into Facebook’s servers and is scraping a big ****ing list of souls to throw into some sort of pit when they finally rock up at the gates.
Premier Icon
the-muffin-man
Full MemberThere’s no rule that says you must take the apex of every corner. You can place your car anywhere as long as you leave a car’s width.
It wasn’t an intentional move to miss the apex. Hence the FIAs comments too, and I feel they called it right. Was a racing incident but slightly weighted towards the guy who couldn’t hold his line. 10s penalty, makes no difference in the end anyway
If there’s a god then I hope she’s got a back door into Facebook’s servers and is scraping a big **** list of souls to throw into some sort of pit when they finally rock up at the gates.
There's a great deal I like about that sentence.
There’s no rule that says you must take the apex of every corner. You can place your car anywhere as long as you leave a car’s width.
Max left one and a half cars width. Hamilton oversteered wide and hit him as he missed the apex Max left enough room but Hamilton needed more because he went in too hot
To be fair, he made the corner.
ONly becauwe he hit max
So you’re saying Lewis couldn’t avoid the collision and Max had the choice not to steer into him at 180 miles an hour but did anyhow?
No I am saying the opposite. Max altered his line to go wider ( hence turn in, open the steering to take a wider line then turn in again) and left Hamilton a car and a halfs width Hamilton didn't back out so hit Max as hamilton ran wide.
He definitely backed out - they were nigh-on dead level, you can see Hamilton's front wing on Verstappen's in-car. And as highlighted on the Sky video, Max made two adjustments to turn in, the second stronger than the first. Lewis would have made the corner whether Max was there or not.
Hamilton has just done the rest of the grid a favour. Max has been intimidating the other drivers and squeezing them all this season and last. To the point where most of them have been backing out to avoid a collision. Not this time. It’s about time Hamilton got his elbows out. It’s called racing. You can clearly see Max turn in on Hamilton, maybe he’ll think twice next time. F1 has certainly got a bit more interesting if nothing else.
Is this discussion still going on?
I use this thread to catch up on any interesting inside info but the last three screens seem to be the same thing with neither view being willing to change.
1) They were racing
2) They are both very good racers
3) They turned a corner
4) There was contact
5) Either could have backed out
6) Neither did
7) Hamilton was lightly penalised because on balance it was slightly more his fault
8) It wasn't a deliberate ramming, professional foul or murder attempt
9) Move on
Please get back to the juicy gossip we don't get on R4 or ITV etc
World class assessment WorldClassAccidet, would expect nothing less from you with a user name like that.
1) They were racing
2) They are both very good racers
3) They turned a corner
4) There was contact
5) Either could have backed out
6) Neither did
7) Hamilton was lightly penalised because on balance it was slightly more his fault
8) It wasn’t a deliberate ramming, professional foul or murder attempt
9) Move on
10) Jos Verstappen is a ****
Bez,
If, as The Man in Black once said: "There's a man...goimg round...taking names", than I hope the first name on the list is Christian Horner.
I think it was said earlier that CH can't be blamed for the racist abuse because his comments weren't specifically racist. Well, we have seen across all media a veritable tsunami of egative comments towards LH from those who obviously never watched the race or have the first idea about F1. For their amunition they are using all the eronious points raised by Horner.
There's a limit to how many times the trolls can whinge about LH not paying taxes, or only winning because of the car. It's a tough job when the lad keeps on winning, and winning,....and winning. They need an uber troll like CH to throw a bit of fuel on the fire every now and again to motivate the base and get those keyboards a tapping.
Max altered his line to go wider ( hence turn in, open the steering to take a wider line then turn in again) and left Hamilton a car and a halfs width Hamilton didn’t back out so hit Max as hamilton ran wide.
I don't see that.
Max was going for the apex even though Hamilton's car was there. Yes maybe Hamilton did go in a bit hot but Max could very easily have avoided it. Fair result all round.
watching that gif, MV's turn in was going to take him closer to the apex than LH, if they hadn't touched he was going to leave less that a car and a half. Clearly saying back off and LH didn't.
LH caused the situation but MV had the chance to avoid it, I'm coming round to LH created the scenario but MV created the collision.
For those like me who watched on sky, the c4 intro is worth a quick watch
ONly becauwe he hit max
This is outright nonsense, if he'd have outbreaked himself there'd have been wheels locking everywhere and the collision would have taken both out. He'd have been condemned by his peers and then damned by his data. Literally nobody is saying he did this, not even Helmut Marko!
@retro83 hadnt seen that. Appreciated! Love top gun but the multi 21 comment cracked me up.
Was on holiday so missed the race but saw all the chat, so managed to focus on other things.
Things that seem to be missed/not duscussed, poor mclaren pit stop (rare thing) cost Lando another podium here. Vettel doing a vettel and spinning whilst under a little pressure and Cheko being sacrificed to take a point off lewis when he could easily have got 8th just shows red bull is all max!
And don't forget Mazespin beat M. Schumacher! (again)
10) Jos Verstappen is a *
11) Christian Horner is a *
12) Helmut Marko is a bigger ****
poor mclaren pit stop (rare thing)
Seems to happen quite often IIRC. Especially last season. They're doing better this season but it's still their achilles heel.
Cheko being sacrificed to take a point off lewis when he could easily have got 8th just shows red bull is all max!
Red Bull is all Max, of course—all their talk last year was openly about needing someone to be close to Max to haul in the points that Mercedes were hoovering up, not about having anyone to rival him—but in this case it just makes sense for any team: there are only two title contenders. Bottas is fully in a second-driver role as well.
And don’t forget Mazespin beat M. Schumacher! (again)
Second time this season - first time was in Monaco when Schumacher had engine problems and let him past.
It was interesting watching it at Silverstone and the ever increasing gap between the 2 Hass' (closely matched) and the rest of the back-of-the-pack. That car just simply doesn't have the pace of the rest. Clearly given up quite early in the season when they realised it was uncompetitive and focussing on next year.
The wheels on that Porsche are beautiful.
pocpoc
It was interesting watching it at Silverstone and the ever increasing gap between the 2 Hass’ (closely matched) and the rest of the back-of-the-pack. That car just simply doesn’t have the pace of the rest. Clearly given up quite early in the season when they realised it was uncompetitive and focussing on next year.
Yeah it's an absolute dog, looks a right handful to drive. Aside from the obviously poor aero, I remember Kevin or Grosjean saying it had problems with the suspension overheating, leading to really inconsistent handling.
eta:
link
The intensity of Verstappen’s impact, Horner disclosed, was measured at 51G, roughly five times the gravitational force to which fighter pilots are subject when they are performing loop-the-loops.
Telegraph writers are clearly as well informed on aeronautics as they are on F1.
I think Horner's hyperbolic haranguing of Hamilton will ultimately prove to be counter productive. Very few people in F1 believe that Hamilton is a dirty driver, quite the opposite. So doubling down on the criticism means that any 50/50 calls in the future will probably go against Red Bull.
It was interesting watching it at Silverstone and the ever increasing gap between the 2 Hass’ (closely matched) and the rest of the back-of-the-pack. That car just simply doesn’t have the pace of the rest. Clearly given up quite early in the season when they realised it was uncompetitive and focussing on next year.
They'd given up on this season before it even started! The only work they really did was the floor to comply with the new regs.
They even said this year was always going to be written off for them so they could chuck all their budget at the 2022 car.
Clearly given up quite early in the season when they realised it was uncompetitive and focussing on next year.
They made that decision last year. The made the absolute minimum of changes to the car to meet the rule changes for this year to save money to develop next year's car. There was never any intention of doing any development work for this year.
Edit. Beaten by 22 seconds by the MM.
Helmut now talking about getting lawyers involved! What a dick. He wants to change the rules because his pet project didn't win. Masi has stated that the stewards only look at the incident itself and not the consequences of it. In which case Perez's 2x 5 seconds penalties in Austria should have set a precendent for Hamilton surely? The hypocrisy is strong with this one (from Marko, no the stewards).
Blimey - that's all a bit strong. Particularly from an owner of a team with the most aggressive driver on the grid - he should be careful what he wishes for. Can't see it going anywhere but reinforces my opinion of HM 🙂
I can’t believe they are taking it this far. They really don’t have any perspective about the incident at all so they? To an outsider not knowing what started it all and had no idea about F1 you’d think that Lewis tried to murder Crashtappen (don’t ever forget that was his nickname no so long ago) and his whole family.
They would do well the remember the disgusting way MV has conducted himself on and off the track since he joined F1. FFS he went and physically assaulted someone in the pits!!!!
So doubling down on the criticism means that any 50/50 calls in the future will probably go against Red Bull.
As much as the penalty system as far from perfect, that’s an incredibly low view to take.
That legal action stuff is mental. Maybe looking for some concession for the impact to their budget (slight increase in cost cap if your car gets absolutely ruined), but the stuff in that article is bonkers
Helmut now talking about getting lawyers involved!
That really is pathetic.
I don't drink energy drinks but they are no longer my first choice of fizzy drink to not buy. I'd now rather not buy pretty much any other brand of fizzy drink than not buy theirs.
TBF I probably won't buy a Mercedes either, but that's more because I'm skint.
The hypocrisy is strong with this one
Indeed, you can't go along with all the "hard charging, take no prisoners" approach of your No.1 driver, and then complain bitterly about it when the same tactic is used against him.
(slight increase in cost cap if your car gets absolutely ruined)
I think I read somewhere that Red Bull retiring Perez from the sprint on Saturday gives them a $100,000 increase in the cost cap?
Anyone got any more info on this? Surely if that were the case then everyone running outside the top 10 would retire with 2 laps to go in every race? I'm sure they could all come up with a "valid reason" to retre if they needed. Perez said they retired because of the vibrations from flat spots and safety concerns. So, everyone locks up and retires with flat spots = budget cap increases for all?
Anyone got any more info on this? Surely if that were the case then everyone running outside the top 10 would retire with 2 laps to go in every race?
AFAIK, it only applies to the sprint races. The idea is that teams didn't budget for accident damage in the sprint races so it's reasonable to expand the cost cap to cover that. I think the 100K isn't a rigid limit - it can be increased if a car suffers major damage.