Only one non-Ferrai.
Gasley wins
My assumption is that they will compare the factory Ferraris with the customer engines because the customer engines may not be identical. If the Ferrari (or Honda) fuel system is found to be illegal, then all cars fitted with that system will be penalized. The non-Ferrari might only be included as a reference of how a legitimate system works.
If it's a new loophole then the result will likely stand and a technical clarification will be issued before Abu Dhabi to make it illegal. Sorry George.
I'm colossally late to the party, but I've just caught the highlights of the Brazilian GP. Utterly nuts! I was absolutely delighted to see Gasly - not too long ago turfed out of his wayward Red Bull and unceremoniously demoted back to Toro Rosso - fight Lewis right to the finish line and claim a second place, his first podium and at Interlagos! Cocking marvelous.
And then it was rendered almost moot by Hamilton getting a 5 sec penalty. Gasly would still have claimed second regardless of whether he'd fought for position.
But that's not all...Hamilton is penalised and Carlos Sainz, in a McLaren that started from P20 had climbed up the grid, avoiding contact right up until a hard fought P4 got him within five seconds of Hamilton. The McLaren podium that I'd hoped to see all season finally happened.
Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
It was so amazing!! The saddest thing is this may well be one of the last grand prix to be raced here 🙁
Latifi cofirmed at Williams - hope they have a better car out of the box next year as they don't have much experience to lead the development.
That was my first thought too, but looking at what GR's done (won F4,F3,F2, did 2 test days for Force India, 2 for Merc) and obviously a year at Williams with RK who's known for being good at giving feedback, I would hope he knows what he needs to do! God help Williams if they're not closer next year...
I'm already expecting a "we're focusing on the 2021 car" statement anytime soon
So.... Ferrari and Honda engines deemed to have been examined and a "technical clarification requiring an additional fuel sensor in 2020" added.
XXX International Assistance at work again, because in reality they and Honda cheated recently and should have their (at least Brasil) results struck off, but to do so would:
a) Piss off Ferrari
b) interfered with Honda's decision to commit to F1
How do we know they cheated rather than stretched the rules?
Got a link Kryton? Can't find it anywhere.
Unproven then with 3 new derictives in to ensure it doesn't happen in future? Sounds fairly standard F1 "Mercedes' James Allison observed. "So it’s an interesting thing, but not anything you could draw any solid conclusions from.""
EDIT: or a conspiracy of course
The top engineers are paid to find and exploit the loopholes in the rules. All the greats have done it: Newey, Brawn, Murray… that’s why they’re the greats. This is business as usual and means Ferrari and Honda have played it smart: they secured a technical advantage without getting into trouble. Unless you have some smoking-gun information to hand, it’s neither cheating nor a conspiracy.
Thanks for the links hols & kryton
they secured a technical advantage without getting into trouble
I wonder if there's a list of these sorts of things anywhere? Seens a couple of videos of innovations that got banned, but i bet there are loads that have been forgotten about (that are considerably more exciting than finding ways to add a tiny bit more fuel)
Haven't seen a complete list anywhere, but the F1 YT channel had a vid on that subject a month or two back
Blimey, Bottas has dropped his marriage for the sake of his career. Häkkinen and someone else close to him, I forget who, were saying he had something special up his sleeve in terms of planning to hit 2020 hard; looks like whatever his plan is, he's taking no prisoners.
https://twitter.com/ValtteriBottas/status/1199999133773369348
Didn't Senna divorce his wife so he would be able to concentrate on racing?
I see Seb’s lost the back end again and put it in the wall.
Are Ferrari fast or slow again after that latest technical clarification? 😀
Don't know how representatives the times are, but they both ended the session about 2 seconds off the front and split by a Haas…
Didn’t Senna divorce his wife so he would be able to concentrate on racing?
It's quite understandable, I mean, it's pretty distracting trying to follow the commentary when someone's hoovering right round you.
Great result for Lewis in what must’ve been a dispiriting session for Bottas. Brand new engine, MGUH and MGUK and still Lewis beats him by 0.3seconds.
Embarrassing for Ferrari, again. They've had a shocker this season.
I had myself a little chuckle at the start of Q1.
As soon as Albon said over the radio "the track's pretty slippery" I thought, ha, Vettel's going to lose the back end somewhere.
Maybe sixty seconds later, there he was on the screen, rolling backwards over the finish line 🤣
And yeah, Ferrari, the eternal shambles. Piss-ups and breweries spring to mind.
For all of their shambolic showing at times, that Ferrari isn't a dog. At times this season it's been quicker than the Merc - although as Bez has pointed out this may or may not have been aided by some clever interpretations of rules that appear to have been closed in Brazil and Abu Dhabi.
Ferrari have a great car, just as they have done for the last two seasons as well, what's holding them back are all the bungling errors in strategy, team management and on track (90% of which seem to be Vettel's)
Good chance they just ruined Leclercs race before the start. Fuel discrepancies
Boring now that the drs is working again.
Boring now that the drs is working again.
But amusing when they messed up Vettel's pit stop.
Bottas on a quali powered run at Leclerc!
I'm calling it, he's a cyborg and doesn't blink !!
can't see Mattia Binotto being in charge of ferrari next season, wasn't even very close 15-3 in wins is a trouncing especially when you have the "faster" car :/
30 lap old hard tyres and sets the fastest lap of the race to end the season with a grand slam!
They’ve been nowhere near since the FIA clarified the fuel flow/monitoring rules. Hmmmmmmmmm.
I’ve officially fallen back in love with McLaren this season, the vibe within the team and drivers is fantastic.
Did anyone else hear Lando and his engineer?
McLaren has been the story of the season for me, Sainz and young Norris have done an outstanding job.
The second big story of the year has been Gasly - from a torrid time at Red Bull to a fully deserved P2 in Brazil in his Toro Rosso, he’s got his head down and is proving potential.
McLaren have been outstanding this season. After the early testing predictions of having them been the 8th fastest team and glory runs in testing they have been a revelation. Soundly beating the factory engine supplier. They have a youthful energy in the team and I hope it continues. Going forward they could be in demand in 2021.
Did anyone else hear Lando and his engineer?
/blockquote>
Amazing!!
Why was Verstappen so much quicker in a straight line near the end than Leclerc when it was the other way round at the start?
Different tyres cause different performance, cars work different at different weights with fuel loss contributing, Verstappen had some system issues he may have been stuck / forced to be in a certain mode, Ferrari couldn't use that extra fuel they were carrying cause the "technical boost" would be too obvious so they ended up heavier.... etc
Not F1, but just came across this poignant anime short about the 1955 Le Mans disaster. It's well worth a watch.
Any ideas what was with the Ferrari fuel weight thing? I can't see how it gives a benefit, so why would they do it deliberately (especially seeing as they were guaranteed to be caught), but I also can't see how they could mess up something as simple as that.
I’ll have a wild stab in the dark that the previous technical innovation based on fuel flow which allowed them to go faster used more fuel than when then are not using it - hence the straight line speed boost. Hence, someone put too much fuel in the car based on prior best practice yet Ferrari declared an amount of fuel akin to running the car without said system.
purely a guess on my part but I don’t thinks it’s unreasonable?
someone put too much fuel in the car based on prior best practice yet Ferrari declared an amount of fuel akin to running the car without said system.
Pretty much guaranteed to be caught, surely. If you remember the Honda fuel tank thing from 10 or 15 years back (which was a blatant attempt at cheating), the scrutineers will surely be checking fuel tank capacity, how much fuel is put in, how much is left, and what the fuel-flow sensors report as being burned. Even a discrepancy of 100 grams or so would set alarm bells ringing, so I don't see how Ferrari would think they could get away with several kilos.
I also can’t see how they could mess up something as simple as that.
Sorry, we’re talking about Ferrari, yeah?
Quite a bit of talk about Lewis and Ferrari again, Lewis not denying he met with Ferrari's chairman this year
Even Toto has weighed in and said saying he's 75% sure Lewis will stay with Merc for 2021 but don't rule out the lure of Ferrari so there is a 25% chance he may switch, he left a winning team (Mclaren) to join Mercedes
I'm going to go out on a limb and there's prob 99% chance of this not ever happening but for 2021 Ferrari sign Lewis, Toto becomes Ferrari's team principal plus Bono and Angela Cullen goes with them too!!!
Ferrari F1 needs sorting from the top down, i reckon Toto could be the man to do it
I know it will prob never happen but you never know!!!!!!
I had Vettel to quit end of 2020, Ricciardo to take his seat (but there will be a queue of several other drivers and managers getting cosy with Ferrari management... with Sainz, Ocon, Gasly, perhaps Max or Albon too, all wanting to be in scarlet, possibly the Hulk trying to get a seat back, and wouldn't rule out Alonso either).
Lewis+Toto (and their top engineers) to Ferrari... that's definitely an option that needs to be in Chainbear and co's F1 predictor bingo card for 2020 or 2021.
IMO Ricciardo will never be in a top seat again. Unless Renault come good he's destined to end his career as a mid-season journeyman. Should have stuck with Red Bull and fought it out against Max.
With vettel having another kid and his performance being not great, I half wondered if he might quit now. It would be an amazing seat to open up and although Hulk would be in pole position for the seat I reckon ferarri would pay out someones contract if they wanted them that badly.
Wolff wouldn't go to Ferrari, the more likely scenario is he goes to a role working for F1 itself, maybe to replace Sean Bratches. I can't see him going to Ferrari, I think everyone has seen what a tainted chalice that job is!
If the above pans out, I can see a bigger chance of Lewis heading to Ferrari, if Toto stays at Mercedes, Lewis will stay too.
The only potential bombshell is whether Mercedes decide it's done enough as a works team and instead pulls out the works team and partners back up with Mclaren. Too much long term success could do more harm than good, so maybe they'll think it would be better to keep Brixworth running the engine side but with Mclaren as works partner. They'll have to cut the staff for 2021 anyway so could just run it down further and dissolve the team (with most personal heading to Mclaren and other teams) or sell up the chassis side of the team.
the-muffin-man
Member
IMO Ricciardo will never be in a top seat again. Unless Renault come good he’s destined to end his career as a mid-season journeyman. Should have stuck with Red Bull and fought it out against Max.
After the treatment after the Baku thing it and Helmut's comments to the media it was obvious Max had golden balls status at RB, and it was always going to be a big ask for anyone else to have a fair shot at a WDC in the other seat.
On the other hand I think Renault was a reasonable gamble for Renault to produce a competitive car in 2021.
I had Vettel to quit end of 2020, Ricciardo to take his seat (but there will be a queue of several other drivers and managers getting cosy with Ferrari management… with Sainz, Ocon, Gasly, perhaps Max or Albon too, all wanting to be in scarlet, possibly the Hulk trying to get a seat back, and wouldn’t rule out Alonso either).
If he quits over the winter then what, how solid are those contracts? Is Giovenazi good enough to be brought in or would they need Kimi back for a year?
1. Vettel has no intention of quitting over the winter. He will be driving a Ferrari next year. 100%. 2021 is a different matter though. Will Ferrari want to pay his enormous salary if he can't do a lot better than this year?
2. Slim chance that Hamilton will move to Ferrari. Not impossible, but he's comfortable where he is and Ferrari have a lot of work to do before they look like title contenders.
3. Ricciardo at Ferrari would make sense. He seems very level headed and doesn't get into sulky grudges with teammates and knows how to overtake. If Ferrari are ever going to win the constructor's title again, they will need someone like him to partner LeClerk.
4. Mercedes have no intention of quitting, selling up, going back to just being engine suppliers, or whatever. They are in the sport to win championships, it's worth billions in publicity for them so they aren't going anywhere.
Hmmm...
1) Vettel is 32. He's shown that given competition the hunger is there to chase for wins. The difficulty will be balancing Vettel with his team mate, who most certainly isn't doing the loyal junior team mate thing. As hols2 says, Ferrari will want a return on their premium, I don't see them tolerating Vettel trailing his team mate in the points for long.
2) Imagine Hamilton is 7x WDC in November 2020 and thinks "what next?". Would be fitting to see him at Ferrari, but I can't see it working out with a hard-charging Leclerc already having played second fiddle to Vettel.
3) Ricciardo WOULD be a great fit at Ferrari. But he needs to build his Renault team around him effectively in 2020 to be a shoe in for 2021, unless a disgruntled Ferrari no 1/2 throws in the towel. Ricciardo is also of Italian descent, something which the Italian press seem to like.
4) Hmmm...motorsport is changing - I watched a few Formula E races last weekend. You can drive off the racing line to pick up an extra one time only overtaking boost, that sort of thing. Apart from the utterly ridiculous-I-am-going-to-write-to-the-Daily-Mail-/-My-MP travesty that is no champagne spraying on the podium, I can't find much to dislike. Audi and BMW are there - VW now having announced an end to it's participation in fossil fueled motorsport. I can't see Mercedes staying there forever, even Honda and Renault have periodically thrown in the towel and retired to making small and practical hatchbacks for a while. Right now, Formula E cars look a little like Batmobiles and have much more power than grip. But they last an entire race, a couple of years back a driver had to pit for a fully charged racing car halfway through.
My impression was that Ferrari have made overtures towards Lewis because, well, they would do better if he replaced Vettel, and Lewis isn't denying the rumours because it gives him leverage for his contract negotiations next year
The thing I'm looking schadenfreude to the most is Vettel trying to find a seat that suits a 4x world champ if Ferrari do boot him out at the end of next season!
I wonder what the German word for schadenfreude is.
Formula E - I can’t find much to dislike
For some reason I just can't get excitied about Formula E. I've tried watching it a few times but the spark just isn't there.
The only thing I can put my finger on is their insistance on using street circuits. There's so much high safety barrier needed around the whole track that it's like running the whole race in a trench and it's irrelevant what city it's in - could be suburban [insert random town here] and make no difference. The chances of overtaking are reduced as the track is so narrow and everytime someone touches a wall they need a safety car to recover bits of debris and cars. It's all so stop-start that there's no flow to the race.
I'd like to see them race on some proper circuits so they can stretch their legs and have a proper race.
pocpoc
I’d like to see them race on some proper circuits so they can stretch their legs and have a proper race.
I assume they're avoiding that because it would show up how relativity slow the cars are.
They weigh 60KG more than an F1 car, power is less than a third of an F1 car's (270 BHP in race trim), and they run all weather tyres.
Even compared to a GP2 car they are heavier and have less than half the power.
Aside from Fanboost I've enjoyed all the racing I've seen though.
I assume they’re avoiding that because it would show up how relativity slow the cars are.
Which is why I've never bothered to follow it.
The one recent Formula E race I watched was nothing more than some cars following each other around a narrow street circuit, with the sound on mute, and every so often a car would pretend they're in Mario Kart and drive over a powerup, and then not do anything successful with it (unless they save it for later). Didn't see any attempt at overtake or anything, but the finishing order was different when I channel hopped back around to that channel so something must have happened in the mean time. Nothing like touring car where they're practically in the boot of the car in front forcing a mistake. That's where close racing action can be found.
George Russell fastest today, Leclerc second.
Russell has talent. It’s wasted in that donkey of a car
If Merc sign MV, Lewis will be off to Ferrari the same minute. Vettel will be out, he’s old news.
It’d be interesting
Why would Merc sign MV? They’d be better off replacing VB with Heidfeld.
They’d be better off replacing VB with Heidfeld.
Why would they sign a 42 year old who hasn't raced in F1 since 2011?
Re Formula E - the cars seem to have more power than grip, the pace of development seems to be quite rapid. I don't believe that it'll be a niche formulae for very long, it may even prove to be more relevant for motor manufacturers than F1 when you consider that within twenty years, new cars won't be powered by internal combustion.
Anyway, George Russell straps himself into a Merc, puts on the softest rubber and goes fastest, a full six point six seconds faster than Roy Nissany in the Williams. Granted, that Williams was driven by Roy Nissany, son of "There's too much grip" Chanoch Nissany which might explain why the second Williams driven by Latifi was three point seven seconds per lap faster.
Imagine being so broke that you have to rent out a seat for tyre testing knowing full well that driver feedback will be next to useless.
Anyway, apparently no-one likes the 2020 Pirelli tyres.
Formula E, the spark just isn’t there.
*Applauds*
Why would Merc sign MV?
He looks to be the fastest racer out there. Lacks LH's experience and maturity, but devastatingly fast. LH might go another five years, but he'll start to lose his edge sometime so MV would be the logical replacement. Having them as teammates for a year or two would really be something - the undisputed champ versus the young contender.
Just looked up Roy Nissany. Williams is so depressing right now 🙁
slackalice
Subscriber
Why would Merc sign MV? They’d be better off replacing VB with Heidfeld.
Do you mean Hulkenberg?
That makes more sense!!
Lawrence Stroll is looking to buy a large share in Aston Martin
Could we see Racing Point rebranded in the future and what implications could it have for Redbull as they have AM as a title sponsor with possibility of being their engine supplier in 2021 if the rules suit them
Red Bull would race even without Aston Martin (if it suited them) - they could buy Aston Martin with loose change from the back of their hospitality suite sofas! 🙂
And Honda are confirmed as their engine suppliers for 2021.
Ahhh! Yes! Hulkenberg... not Heidfeld! It was early!
I agree Hulkenberg would make more sense if Lewis Hamilton was planning to stay longer term. Having two drivers as good as Max or Lewis in the same team usually ends in tears lol
This should be a 2020 thread now.
There's one lurking around already, however it was started a bit early (with two races to go lol) so it's dropped off the front page
what implications could it have for Redbull as they have AM as a title sponsor with possibility of being their engine supplier in 2021 if the rules suit them
That alternative engine supply stuff was never a real thing, it was just Mclaren and Red Bull looking around in case of the worst-case scenario and realizing that they could share a privately funded Cosworth engine and rebrand it to suit. Both teams have locked down engine supplies now so there is absolutely zero chance of Cosworth or AM producing an engine.
This should be a 2020 thread now.
The season's over, so I'm calling this one in!