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Think there's only a couple where they tried slipstreaming in Quali. Monza was clearly one of them. Baku another where there's an enormous "straight" where a tow is worth something and a double tow is worth more.
The only dilemma to deal with is penalising those who hold up others when on outlaps as well as flying laps. If you go so slow someone behind gets the chequered flag, and don't let them past, then you get all your times deleted. Something like that might make them think twice.
Red Bull are 'bullish' about their chances in Singapore. I'd like to see a level playing field, no penalties, full bore battle between the new boy (Albon) and the chosen one (Max V)
Max has wound his neck in a bit this year. His (at times) immature approach has been curbed this year and it's made him a little slower and safer. Albon is fighting for his F1 life
Without interference from the pit wall, it'll be interesting.
Agreed, nicely explained Bez.
I'm sure that that the issue of team mates giving one another a tow during qualifying is not just a recent phenomenon, I guess that it's inevitable if two cars from the same team (or same family of teams) are on track at the same time. I can't see that much can be realistically done to fix it.
Track blocking shenanigans have been severely punished in the past (remember Schumacher "parking" his car at Rascasse causing Alonso to abort his flying lap at Monaco?). In short, I have no idea how we prevent drivers from going slowly to stymie a qualifying lap for someone else, given that the stewards were unable to determine whether Hulkenberg fell off the track on purpose...
....then the post-race discussion ceases to be about the stewarding decisions and instead becomes about whether the move was marginal or not…
Stewarding decisions are based on 2 things; The Offence, what did the driver do/what decision did he make . and 2 The Consequences of that decision/ his actions, and will/should penalise accordingly. It tries to mitigate the "marginal" element
Drivers are briefed accordingly, and have for the last couple of seasons, along with teams, tracks, stewards and marshalls taken a "it's a race, lets race" attitude. Drivers who pull moves like Leclercs will always plead "It's racing, and drivers who move like that will always cry foul...
Wasn't the Q3 farce due to Raikkanen binning it, the session being stopped and restarted with a minute or so left, but and everyone reluctant to lead the pack out?
A one off occurrence surely?
Wasn’t the Q3 farce due to Raikkanen binning it, the session being stopped and restarted with a minute or so left, but and everyone reluctant to lead the pack out?
A one off occurrence surely?
Nope, it was purely as no one wanted to be first in the queue. Hence Mercs stopping at end of pit lane, then Hulk cutting the chicance hoping Stroll and Carlos would come by...but Stroll pretty much slowed to a stop to ensure Hulk rejoined at the front the queue and that backed everyone up. Then they all went slowly trying to maintain their position and not be a the front.
How does quality work for Indycars? They must have some rules for ovals where slipstreaming is even more important. Could something similar be applied in F1 or isn't it necessary?
Ovals are one car on track at a time - please dont let us go back to that!
A superpole shootout at a couple of tracks could be interesting, everyone in the final qualifying session gets just one hot lap, no room for mistakes. Also assuming it is better to go later, the top teams would be having to do hot laps in q2, therefore limiting there race strategy tire choices.
At the moment though, as farcical as it was this has only happened once, the tow issue never registered with me in the past couple of years, even though I assume it was there. Maybe with evolving aerodynamics and strategies it just became more obvious to the teams that they need to make use of it this year to stand any chance. Now it has become so obvious though, I can't see anything changing until the aero rules change again.
Meh.... how about this for slipstreaming?!
Mark Hughes continues with his wishful thinking:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/mph-could-ban-vettel-pave-way-alonsos-formula-1-return
Alonso has burnt his bridges, the top 3 don't need or want him so he has no chance of getting in a race winning car. No doubt he knows that too but he has always liked to make a bit of mischief.
Of all the places Alonso would be welcome, Ferrari would be bottom of the list.
Amoebic Dysentery would be better received
Of all the places Alonso would be welcome, Ferrari would be bottom of the list.
Not quite. Red Bull (Honda) are bottom of the list.
Mercedes would be below Ferrari, too.
Ferrari might not even view him that dimly either, seeing as his successor hasn’t fared better, albeit for slightly opposing reasons: Alonso didn’t seem to help them build a winning car, but he came close to winning championships with an inferior one; Vettel has helped build a more competitive car, but then has failed to do much with it.
Will Buxton on the black and white flag:
"The ‘conduct’ flag is not a replacement for penalties. It’s not even issued by the same office. It’s not making legal what was illegal. It’s not changing the rules. And it certainly isn’t giving carte blanche to racers to run into each other which, while we’re at it, has to be one of the silliest fears I’ve yet seen."
Taxi for Mr Palmer… 🙂
“The ‘conduct’ flag is not a replacement for penalties. It’s not even issued by the same office. It’s not making legal what was illegal. It’s not changing the rules. And it certainly isn’t giving carte blanche to racers to run into each other which, while we’re at it, has to be one of the silliest fears I’ve yet seen.”
Taxi for Mr Palmer… 🙂
Well that's intredasting, because last week the race director himself said it was the stewards decision whether the flag or a penalty was issued:
“It’s ultimately the stewards’ decision if somebody gets penalised or the bad sportsmanship flag, but if the stewards feel there was more to it then we absolutely have the capability of issuing a penalty and that’s exactly where it sits. I think it was hard. The black-and-white was issued for the reason it was there. It’s quite simple for me and a carbon copy of what Pierre [Gasly] did last weekend in Spa. It achieved its purpose.”
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.fia-explain-use-of-f1s-yellow-card-for-leclerc-at-monza.43RcYITisZtxgpPhXn1Gye.html
Blimey, RG gets another go.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/19/grosjean-secures-new-haas-deal-for-2020/
Blimey indeed. Guess the sponsors must get a good return from all the shots of his car crashing.
Looks like Hulkenberg might end up out of F1 next year. Apparently he was asking for a lot of money from Haas so they turned him down.
I honestly can't believe the decision to keep those two together!
Obviously Haas know the availabilty on the driver market and what financial deals can be done, but surely there is a better option than Laurel and Hardy driving in to each other at the back of the mdifield?
Grosjean must have some compromising photos of Gene Haas to get another year in the car.
Perhaps Netflix are funding his drive to ensure guaranteed comedy gold scenes! 🙂
And he has got 10 podium finishes compared to Hulks big fat zero.
But then they've had different cars. Grosjean got nearly all of his when he was lucky enough to have a highly competitive Lotus in 2012-13, but both years he was inconsistent and was beaten soundly by Raikkonen who also managed to get race wins in both years.
Hulkenberg on the other hand has never been in a race-winning car, and only one of his team-mates has ever put the same car on the podium: Perez managed four third places at Force India. But, Perez aside, he's mostly consistently beaten his team-mates.
But Grosjean gets on ok with Magnussen…
Very surprised at the RG announcement. He seems to have gone back to being a liability these past couple of seasons and keeping him and KM together really doesn't make sense. I would have thought Hulk would be worth a shot there as he is generally a good driver and a bit unlucky to lose his place at Renault. Or Racing Point - but then daddy's not going to sacrifice his son for a decent driver and they've just signed Perez for another couple of years
Shame about Kubica - we know the car is rubbish, but he's been hugely outclassed by a Rookie.
who's in line for the Williams drive now? (if anyone actually wants it!)
Do know if Williams have anyone lined up? One of those occasions where a combination of a bit of talent and a lot of money would be handy
Nicholas Latifi - his father has bucketfulls of cash!!
Currently 2nd in F2 championship, so not a complete dobin.
Hopefully hulk to Williams then... A shame he's never had a decent car to drive.
Hulk to Alfa, Giovinazzi's had his shot and been outclassed by the grids senior citizen...
They'd have to pay Hulk though!! 🙂
Defo Lafiti to Williams. He's been doing the Friday tests at a couple of GPs and hasn't been completely out of his depth.
Hulk to Alfa isnt a bad shout - possibility of a Ferrari retainer if they need him when Vettel decides he's had enough.
Might be very interesting this weekend if the air quality doesn't improve and they have to shift the race to Monday. Bernie wouldn't have stood for such petulance from the weather!
Might be very interesting this weekend if the air quality doesn’t improve and they have to shift the race to Monday. Bernie wouldn’t have stood for such petulance from the weather!
Went to the bbc website to see if there was anything about this, saw a section header “Poor air quality plan...” and found it consists of:
... warning people to "reduce prolonged or strenuous outdoor physical exertion".
"Race organisers have taken measures to reduce the impact of the haze for the race weekend," an F1 spokesperson said.
"They have put in place a number of measures, including public information at the circuit."
Sounds like Bernie is still pulling the strings.
Yeah I thought Hulkenberg was a shoe-in at Haas. But, then again, money!
It's an odd choice to have an inexperienced driver team up with a rookie but I guess, well, Williams innit
Amazed to see Haas duo staying together. I’d take Hulk over Grosjean any day. Not surprised to see Kubica go, though I wish it had happened earlier, he clearly wasn’t on the pace
Leclerc on pole again, but in Singapore, who'd have thought it?
Eh, where’s the qualifying? Sky f1 appear not to have shown it?
You must of blinked and missed it, it definitely was on when i watched it
Ferrari was a surprise! they have bought some aero upgrades to Singapore
LeClerc is just whipping Vettel at the moment, every time he finds that little bit extra! Fantastic to watch, he really is lining up to be something very special indeed.
Something went wrong with Sky, it never recorded qualy (but did record all the pre grid stuff etc.) and couldn't find it on catchup, so watched highlights on c4.
Great to see dc and wibber again but they padded fpr qn hour with only about 10 mins of cars! Hope the gp records fine on sky tomorrow...
Impressive stuff from Leclerc, he's really hit his stride since the summer break. Bottas on the other hand seems to be suffering his traditional late-season decline.
Plenty of potential for fun and games tomorrow. I'm expecting Verstappen to be back in the hunt once things are underway, but the start should be interesting and if anything kicks off on the first lap (fiver on a Vettel howler?) then the McLarens should be there to mop up some positions.
Good session. Hamilton has taken some stick for overtaking Bottas but why was Bottas going so slowly? He was a good 5s back from whoever was in front and driving like a snail.
stevemuzzy
Great to see dc and wibber again but they padded fpr qn hour with only about 10 mins of cars! Hope the gp records fine on sky tomorrow…
Blame Sky for that one. Not content with throwing every fat ex-driver they can find at it, stealing the theme music and having Sky adverts on C4 during the race, they have to try and make the C4 show itself more boring. Dicks.
Re. Sky, for whatever reason my box has never series linked the F1 live race or qualifying.. which is annoying as it seems fine to series link P1, 2 & 3. It even series links the F2 races FFS but not F1 so I have to remember to manually set it to record for the weekend.. this is not just today mind but for as long as I can remember.. anyone else get this? Qually was at at normal time today tho.
LeClercs lap was absolutely superb. Really interesting mix at the pointy end of the grid tomorrow for the race. Canny wait to watch it all unfold and see if the 100% safety car record is upheld. 😬
Great to see dc and wibber again but they padded fpr qn hour with only about 10 mins of cars! Hope the gp records fine on sky tomorrow…
Blame Sky for that one.
Yep, the deal for the highlights essentially limits them to any show (qualy or race) only having a maximum of 50% track action. And that's 50% of the screen time so doesn't count ad breaks! So a 2hr qualy show only has 45 mins of action, a race show around 50 mins. I think the Sky F1 ads and a mention at the end of the qualy show are in there too. My brother-in-law occasionally works with an ex C4 Sport techie and he told me the details, it's why a lot of the analysis stuff is done away from the trackside as Sky try and make that count!
That was the most exciting qualy in ages! It's such a good season, I'm really enjoying it.
Channel 4 commentary pointed out that Leclerc now has more poles this season than any other driver, including Hamilton!!
Lets see if Verstappen and Vettel both make it through the first turn in one piece.
Lets see if Verstappen and Vettel both make it through the first turn in one piece.
Quite!
Although my enjoyment in watching Vettel struggle has finally dried up and I'm feeling a bit awkward for him now. It would be good to see him claw back some dignity over the next few races
need to can this race, rubbish circuit with rubbish racing. 3 safety cars is ridiculous
it also sounds like the ferrari have remote control over leclercs car! surely they don't randomly change the modes on the steering wheel so the driver doesn't use them!!!
it also sounds like the ferrari have remote control over leclercs car! surely they don’t randomly change the modes on the steering wheel so the driver doesn’t use them!!!
Just finished watching the Channel 4 coverage, no mention if inaccessible engine modes. What happened?
some of his radio chatter he was asking for "more" engine modes, though he was asking for permission it sounded like the he was being denied remotely.
Ok
I agree, that was a frustrating race!
It would be nice to know how much closer to Hamilton Leclerc is in terms of drivers championship points if Ferrari hadn't been holding him back this season
Vettel vs Leclerc carries on, thought Vettel would be #2 driver next season.
I think Vettel got lucky personally, the undercut worked out perfect but the multiple safety cars helped save his tyres for the end of the race, if there was no safety car moments then i think Charles would of been right on his gearbox in the last 10 or so laps, maybe getting past or Vettel under pressure would make a mistake
Will be interesting to see if Vettel is truly back on form or just got lucky in how the race panned out
Will be interesting to see if Vettel is truly back on form or just got lucky in how the race panned out
Bit of both maybe, but there's no getting away from the fact that Leclerc out qualified Vettel at one of Vettel's favourite circuits
Biniotto seems to have pulled together a superteam of late. The SF90 has suddenly become an unlikely all-rounder. Seeing Vettel so pleased with his result was a nice touch, Leclerc has been awesome since the otherwise horrible weekend at Spa.
Handling Vettel and Leclerc isn't always going to be easy, I expect fireworks there before the season is out. Both drivers have much to prove, one may be more motivated than the other.
shermer75
Member
Will be interesting to see if Vettel is truly back on form or just got lucky in how the race panned out
Bit of both maybe, but there’s no getting away from the fact that Leclerc out qualified Vettel at one of Vettel’s favourite circuits
I was listening to Missed Apex last night, I didn't realise that Ferrari didn't tell Charl Eclair that Vettel was stopping, so he carried on plodding round 2 seconds off the pace.
I mean I get why Ferrari did it (1-3 into a 1-2 plus a huge confidence boost for Seb) but it was pretty unfair. Not sure how much longer Charles will carry on playing the team game if they keep it up. Surely he could go to any top team now if a seat becomes available.
I mean I get why Ferrari did it (1-3 into a 1-2 plus a huge confidence boost for Seb) but it was pretty unfair. Not sure how much longer Charles will carry on playing the team game if they keep it up. Surely he could go to any top team now if a seat becomes available.
1. Ferrari say they just miscalculated and didn't realize how big the undercut would be. They expected Vettel would come out behind Lecluck. Instead, he came out 0.4 seconds ahead. That sounds plausible to me.
2. Red Bull generally promote from within. Even if they were interested in Leclerk, why would he want to go to a team that currently has a slower car than the one he has now, plus a very young, very fast driver who will be harder to beat than Vettel. Mercedes do not have any seats available, plus they have a lead driver who has a credible claim to The Greatest of All Time, and their engine seems to be a bit behind Ferrari. Ferrari seem to have figured out their aero problem, so it's a 50-50 bet on who will be fastest next year between them and Merc. Renault and McLaren are still years away from producing a title challenging car, if ever. There is no better seat available for Leclerk, and he knows it.
That sounds plausible to me.
I mean it's possible but I'm still not sure I buy that. The radio transcripts are up on racefans, they didn't once say he was going to be racing against or even vaguely close to Vettel, or even that Vettel was pitting until after Leclerc had pitted.
why would he want to go to a team that currently has a slower car than the one he has now
I meant 2021. Bottas is signed only until 2020, and the new regs will almost certainly reshuffle the team pecking order.
Verstappen will try everything to be in a Ferrari or Merc before long - there are reports he's already shit-stiring about Newey not spending enough time on the F1 side of his workload.
Podiums and the odd win here and there are not what he wants.
Oh man that was frustrating.
Ferrari totally screwed over CLC
Ferrari say they just miscalculated and didn’t realize how big the undercut would be.
Yeah... I do not buy this. They have the lap times and gaps on their screens... they can see in real time the gap closing.
Verstappen to Merc in 2021 seems plausible. Leclerk leaving Ferrari, less so.
Sooner or later we'll see Russell promoted, his way to Racing Point is blocked by Sergio Perez's three year contract and of course Lance Stroll isn't going anywhere. My best guess is that he'll leapfrog into the second Merc for 2021, either alongside Hamilton if he renews, or alongside Verstappen.
My best guess is that he’ll leapfrog into the second Merc for 2021, either alongside Hamilton if he renews, or alongside Verstappen.
Merc are also very interested in Esteban Ocon, so I guess it may be between those two
Merc are also very interested in Esteban Ocon, so I guess it may be between those two
Ocon is contracted to Renault until the end of 2021
Ocon is contracted to Renault until the end of 2021
Interesting!
Bloody hell, why do I find Jolyon Palmer such a dick?
Surely the BBC could have found a less irritating failed F1 driver to waste money on?
+1. He was a proper nob in the post italy podcast.
Merc are also very interested in Esteban Ocon
Merc have now released Ocon from his contract in order for him to qualify for the Renault seat. However, I believe that Ocon is managed by Merc/Toto Wolff?
What puzzles me about Ocon, is if he is that good then why not put him in the Merc for next season?
It hasnt done Leclerc or Verstappen any harm
What puzzles me about Ocon, is if he is that good then why not put him in the Merc for next season?
Because they currently have Hamilton and Bottas. Ocon is unlikely to be better all-round than Hamilton, especially in his first year, but may destabilize things. Bottas is a solid support driver and gets on well with Hamilton. Keeping Bottas was a safe choice. Hamilton will retire sometime, so they will be thinking about a replacement. Verstappen has shown he is very fast and has calmed down a lot, plus the Red Bull/Honda is still a step behind, so signing him in 2021 is starting to look like a possibility. Hamilton may not be happy about that, but Verstappen is good enough that Merc can tell Hamilton to take it or leave it. Ocon might turn out to be one of the greats, but he hasn't proven that yet and Merc won't want to risk upsetting Hamilton over an unproven young driver.
Surely the BBC could have found a less irritating failed F1 driver to waste money on?
What baffles me is that he seems to have landed a column on the official F1 site as well.
And +1 on Ocon: why upset the Hamilton applecart? He's brought home the bacon for four of the last five years and they can already smell the next plate of rashers. Ferrari, on the other hand, only had a Vettel applecart which basically kept dropping apples. And on the basis of his unprecedented and meteoric rise into F1, Red Bull simply felt that a Verstappen applecart was going to be a full-on toffee apple disco bus with bells and neon lights (or at least fireworks and smoke from the Renault PU).