Stanhope nails it as always
"A national day of prayer"? Does that scare the spine out of anyone? Especially when you consider that it's all those dog-shit religions that start these wars to begin with. Ninety percent of every war that's ever been fought is because of some made-up, mind control, completely fictional religion.You never hear in the news, "200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the north".
No, it's because you got a silly, placebo religion cuz you don't want to admit that you don't know
As pointed out though, this has very little to do with actual religion. And everything to do with power and control through fear. Any religious element is purely incidental
These people are all deeply religious on both sides. What I don't get is why Allah doesn't step in and let everyone get along.
Oh wait....
Coyote - Member
Advocating [b][u]nuclear strikes[/u][/b] and torture of the perpetrators will achieve absolutely nothing.
Yes, a nuclear strike will achieve something. (but you [u]cannot [/u]use it now because there is no such thing as Talib country where they congregate in one area)
Do you want to live in Chernobyl? See the place is regenerating itself again slowly. Animal roaming the place again without a single human being in sight. Perhaps several hundred / thousand years later human will go back there again but in the meantime. The place is at peace.
Sometimes you just have to eradicate the core. No if or but. The apple is rotten and it must be used as fertiliser.
🙄
The last few paragraphs in this piece provide some informed speculation on the politics of the region
Edit: [url= http://www.dw.de/****stan-border-attack-shows-islamists-strength/a-18036747 ]DW article[/url]
I would remind Chewkw that ****stan has nuclear weapons.
Sometimes you just have to eradicate the core. No if or but. The apple is rotten and it must be used as fertiliser.
In the process wiping out innocent civilians and radicalising the next wave.
Again, as long as one man thinks he has a [b][u]right[/b][/u] to kill another then nothing will change.
Drone strikes and torture certainly don't help the West's cause. The report on the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques is a real eye opener. Some of those GITMO detainees are never getting out, as they've seen too much. Shaker Aamer will probably have a tragic accident.
Edukator - TrollI would remind Chewkw that ****stan has nuclear weapons.
Not ****stan, the Talib.
The Talib is in ****stan so you cannot nuke them/****stan (you can but they are not the target) but rather let the ****stani people wake up to their own reality.
Coyote - MemberIn the process wiping out innocent civilians and radicalising the next wave.
Again, as long as one man thinks he has a right to kill another then nothing will change.
No one left to radicalise because they/we are all dead. 🙄
Of course things will never change much because that is human nature to dominate. 🙄
Drone strikes and torture certainly don't help the West's cause.
Indeed. Its hard to take the moral high ground when you're kidnapping people, imprisoning them without trial, pulling their toe-nails out, electrocuting, then waterboarding them.
At least, due to the way their political system functions, the Americans now know what the government was doing in their name. Which might stop any repeat performances. I suspect we'll never find out what was being done in ours. Still.... Merry Christmas eh?
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The apple is rotten and it must be used as fertiliser.
A cynic might say the only reason we don't take that approach in the Middle East is because we need to maintain access to the oil.
the Americans now know what the government was doing in their name
and they're probably quite content with that.
We've done worse, many times. This is awful for sure but I'm not going to wring my hands about it.
Still it's selling adverts, so that's a plus.
Just one observation. The Taliban themselves say they are doing this out of pure faith, why doesn't anyone actually accept this is true? No one seems happy to accept this is religiously driven action even though the people doing it swear blind it is.
To be fair this was a long time coming, seeing as the ****stanis and ISI have been playing a treacherous double game with us and the Taliban for the past decade. Maybe this will make the idiots wake up and smell the coffee.
Still awful though.
Just one observation. The Taliban themselves say they are doing this out of pure faith, why doesn't anyone actually accept this is true? No one seems happy to accept this is religiously driven action even though the people doing it swear blind it is.
Its on page one of the Totalitarian's Guide:
The thing is... if you indulge in psychotic barbarity, to assert your own personal power through fear, then you're just a nutter. Saying you're doing it some divine mission from God, and you're a prophet/visionary/martyr
See also: Tony Balir
No one left to radicalise because they/we are all dead.
Neighbouring country? Allies? Families abroad? As long as we think we ave a right to kill we will continue to do so.
But you're going to have a difficult day because of it? Really, it affects you to that extent?
Do you have an imagination?
slowoldman - Member
The apple is rotten and it must be used as fertiliser.
A cynic might say the only reason we don't take that approach in the Middle East is because we need to maintain access to the oil.
Yes. Perhaps also their cash.
The world has no choice because we need their oil to move our vehicles.
Tom_W1987 - MemberTo be fair this was a long time coming, seeing as the ****stanis and ISI have been playing a treacherous double game with us and the Taliban for the past decade. Maybe this will make the idiots wake up and smell the coffee.
The demon/satan/devil has now started to consume their children and if the beasts are not stopped now one day they will get hold of the nuke facility and that will be the end of their nation.
Yes, all the nuke weapons in the world will aim at them. How many nuke do they have I hear? How many others have?
😯
Do you have an imagination?
Some people just know what to expect from humans/the universe in general and aren't surprised by it/hardened to it.
Humour is a good antidote when you get to that stage.
finding humour in tragedy is often seen as a good old British coping mechanism, but perhaps if we did less of this, the stark reality of theses situations might make us stop and think about it rather than taking an ignorant or apathetic stance.
We've done worse, many times.
Well personally I've never been into a school, shot some kids and burnt somebody alive, just to teach somebody else a lesson.
This is a act of terrorism in the purest sense - in that is object is to spread terror.
I'm shocked at the number of people on this thread that seem to condone terrorism.
I'm at best ambivalent about this. I've seen thousands of people die in other countries over the last 35 years on the news and in the papers. I've seen and read about millions more dying through war, famine, disaster and I don't know what else. I'm fed images and stories daily that would make a sane person puke and they don't even register. I don't know these children and although it saddens me when I hear things like this I'm more confused about why these children dying are more newsworthy than the thousands who starved to death somewhere else today.
It's all bollocks, just propaganda to make me hate people I don't know for reasons I can't understand but probably to do with money. It's a sorry state of affairs that's for bloody sure.
And although I may not have personally done murder, I've had it done in my name and I did nothing about it, wringing my hands now about some atrocity seems a bit mawkish.
somewhatslightlydazed - Member
I'm shocked at the number of people on this thread that seem to condone terrorism.
I don't condone terrorism but merely a logical steps to deal with the immediate problem. You think too much.
However, I do want to become an absolute dictator of the world with absolute power that is unquestionable. If I am one the world will be at peace. 😯
Still not regretting my decision to not introduce more life onto this foul planet.
Argue all you want people, see if it escalates and you all end up threatening each others kids.
[i]Do you have an imagination? [/i]
Yes but I've got other stuff to do rather than sitting wringing my hands and struggling to get through the day because of a terrorist atrocity.
Yep its appalling but I'm still able to function normally. Maybe its just me but I really don't think many people on this thread will struggle to get through the day after reading the news story on this.
Oh.
toby its a wonderful planet. Unfortunately there will always be a complete spectrum of good all the way to evil on it. The greatest pleasures I've experienced so far (apart from doing the do 😉 ) have been introducing my offspring to all the amazing things that life can offer.
You adhere to values in the new testament rather than the old testament then, tpbiker. Turning the other cheek isn't for everyone. Sow the wind and reap the whirlwind. Eye for an eye... It's all in the good books of the main religions of all involved.
So what wind did the 80 dead children sow to deserve this then?
I adhere to the values of not being a total twunt and butchering kids for no other reason than revenge. I don't need a book to tell me that.
I'm frankly astonished you appear to be trying to justifying it.
Now if you were the husband/father of a mother and her children killed by a rocket launched from a drone in NW ****stan what would you do?
Dunno, hopefully wouldn't machine gun a school though
So what wind did the 80 dead children sow to deserve this then?I adhere to the values of not being a total twunt and butchering kids for no other reason than revenge. I don't need a book to tell me that.
I'm frankly astonished you appear to be trying to justifying it.
Sorry but that's a bullshit point of view, formed from your cosy safe brick house, in your peaceful street, surrounded by luxury and with the biggest danger in your life perhaps your daily commute..
If you'd faced years and years of brutality and barbarism, watching generations of your friends and family blown to smithereens, reduced to steaming lumps of meat and gristle by your neighbouring tribe, or the next country, or an occupying force from a land thousands of miles away, or by bloody hell fire raining down from above, I'm sure your view on right and wrong might be slightly less warm milk and radio 4 afternoon play
I dunno if I'm trying to justify what happened, but I am a bit sickened that we can sit here in our safe little cotton wool wrapped lives passing judgement on people who have endured decades no, centuries of violent military persecution
Not sure if that is justification from seeing it from their point of view though.
****ed up is ****ed up is ****ed up.
This has gone way beyond religion. It's ideology.
Its beyond ideology. And terrorism. Its fascism. Pure and simple.
The root is religion. They're all forms of societal conditioning.
I am a bit sickened that we can sit here in our safe little cotton wool wrapped lives passing judgement on people who have endured decades no, centuries of violent military persecution
you've got a point, but we're helpless to do anything about what has gone on in the past and what goes on "in our name" as someone else put it.
what seems different here and elsewhere is that these are individual acts of barbarism incited by religious leaders in the name of an invented deity, as opposed to the responsive acts of nations led by those who have the interests of the people at their core, admittedly with prosperity being another obvious interest.
@yunki most people know how lucky they are and can probably imagine given different circumstances what they could/would do if threatened, but I don't think you can compare bombing of cites in war to the specific targeting and cruel killing of kids in a school, that's the act of an evil ideology not someone trying to protect themselves.
the root isn't religion
the root is evil - some people are evil
Some people are evil sometimes, some people are evil often.
If there were no 'religion', people would still commit terrible acts towards fellow humans.
If there were no 'religion', people would still commit acts of kindness towards fellow humans
it's in each of us to decide which path to take in every step we take. Sometimes we do right, sometimes we do wrong. Sometimes we do wrong to such an extent that there is no turning back.
If that happens I honestly believe there is justification for killing. The people who committed this act should be put down for the good of humanity.
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The problem is people. Not religion.
Religion is merely amongst the vehicles they used to en mass support.
What kind of world do we live in when this kind of thing happens?
The same world we have always lived in unfortunately. One where we invest unimaginable resources into the development and manufacture of machines with the sole purpose of killing as many of us as efficiently as we can.
We all subside this industry, and we all profit from the sale of these machines to groups of people who then use them on others. The only surprise to me is that this kind of thing doesn't happen more often.
Maybe if hits our doorstep we will do something about it, if it's not too late by then. In the meantime we can keep our heads firmly buried in the sand.
but I don't think you can compare bombing of cites in war to the specific targeting and cruel killing of kids in a school
Unless you've been carrying an AK47 since you were strong enough to pick it up, and until you've maybe seen your family members butchered in front of you, and until you've seen nothing but war and death and fear and dreamt of nothing but war and death and fear, then I think you're probably like an ant trying to compare a bowl of sugar and the mathematical principals of quantum physics
your sensationalist posts are all very thought-provoking yunki, genuinely, but do you have any actions/ solutions? or do we all just sit here in a fog of despair and futility?
is it sensationalist though brakes?
really!?
Of course I don't have a solution.. jeez
And yes we just sit here and contemplate the futility.. we go to work tomorrow, enjoy Christmas and will have forgotten all about any of this by NYE..
What are [i]you[/i] planning to do about it?
I suppose you're heading out there on the first available flight to tell them they're all very naughty boys
what a silly post 😆
EDIT: sorry.. that was a bit uncalled for.. I really don't have a clue what to do about it.. I will give it some thought this evening though
The root is religion. They're all forms of societal conditioning.
Disagree, way I see it is it's way more fundamental than just 'religion'. The root is a dogmatic in-group/out-group psycho-social dynamic.
Dogmatic/organised religion is just one (albeit enormously powerful) vehicle for this. When you build a family around religious doctrine, and then a village, and a town and a city...
Apostates are political dissidents are fifth columnists are 'filthy foreigners'
A cynic might say the only reason we don't take that approach in the Middle East is because we need to maintain access to the oil.
Although it's a global market and what happens in one place will affect another. Almost all Middle East oil goes East to China, not Europe or the USA. We could fall out with them to our hearts content, they could ban shipments to the west and there'd be little impact.
Hard as it seems for conspiracy theorists to accept, western intervention in the area may well be intended* for the good of the people living there and/or preventing terrorism.
*that's not the same as the result though.
what a silly post
not really, I am genuinely at a loss as to what we, as individuals, can do about this and whether I would be prepared to do anything selfless if I was asked.
I know... hence my apology
sorry
They're all forms of societal conditioning.
Like "Reality TV".
