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Steady now Binners thats a threat and just more fear - the other approach to facts Jamby uses on this "debate".
And tonight my polling card turned up.
Even got my name on it.
According to the Treasury we are facing an 18% drop in house prices. Haha. Gideon is such a tosser.
Dave really should get him to STFU
Given I am an avid 'out voter', I would rather give him a bigger shovel.Dave really should get him to STFU
Brexiteers display a paradoxical inferiority/superiority complex. (Aside from all the other negative characteristics which are all too clear to see.)
On one hand it's all "Look how we get bullied all over the EU. They won't let us play with their ball. They get all the nice looking girlfriends and boyfriends. They outvote us whenever we try to change the club password." But whoa there, as soon as we leave, and we get our "sovereignty" (LOLz) back were suddenly going to be so awesome, the big boys are all going to be queuing up to play with us...even though they've mostly said they'd normally play with other clubs and not lone wolves.
This does show Tory ineptitude. We kept hearing that Cameron and presumably Osborne would keep an open mind about a view on Brexit prior to gaining a deal for the UK on membership. So which part of Camerons "peace in our time" agreement from months ago with the EU deals with stopping house prices dropping 18%?
He should have always stated he was pro EU and told back benchers to put up or shut up.
I would rather give him a bigger shovel.
Play fair him v Jamby in a televised debate 😉
He should have always stated he was pro EU and told back benchers to put up or shut up.
He always did
TBH I think he did it for two reasons
1. To stop UKIP killing his party/ get more votes in the election.
2. he thought it would be a coalition and he would not actually have to do it.
I was sure JY he said he would advocate leaving if he did not get a good deal for Britain. To be honest, I was voting to stay whatever deal he got. The deal was tepid at best, and now he is saying that leaving the EU would be bad for peace in the EU, bad for business and house prices would lose a fifth of their value. I am not sure which part of temporary benefits limits stops WWIII or keeps house prices up.
I was sure JY he said he would advocate leaving if he did not get a good deal for Britain
Yes he said that once he was negotiating but it was never really in any doubt that he would accept what he got and argue for it. He lied basically; its what all politicians do
They are massively over egging the pudding and they seem wedded to increasingly bad forecasts
Its like both sides are competing to see who can say the most bat shit mental thing. I guess this is what happens when it blue on blue
Have a look at the company you're keeping, and have a word with yourself
He's not part of Vote Leave and in fact they"ve been publically critical of him descdibing him as a liability. The fact his campaigning doesn't appeal to you is of no relevance - you are not the target demographic as you are firmly Remain. As for company you're in there snug as a bug with Cameron, Osbourne, May amd of coure M. Junker he of the great tax dodge. Plus of course Corbyn the man of principal who voted against his own government 500 times but who now is in charge has deleted all his blog posts critical of the EU and reversed a lifetime of opposition. Remember it was Laboir who fought an election with a manifesto pledge to Leave.
Junker - it just shows how he's lost the plot. No favours as we don't need any, we are in the driving seat. All he has is political influence in the club as he's the unelected Commision head and we can be out voted. Once you take that power away from him he's nothing, look at the refugee crises, Austria, Hungary, Slovakia etc they've simply ignored him and Merkel and done what they want. He's powerless. We should do the same. Junker is desperate to try and change the record from the migrant crises and euro debacle so any headline will do.
I must have said a dozen times TV debates are worthless showboating, the search for the ultimate sound bite. Having seen more than enough in the US decades ago my mind is made up. I won't be watching these and I certainly wouldn't take part in one.
Cameron's negotiation was doomed to fail as the EU knew he could not admit defeat politically, so they could offer little/nothing and he'd still accept and try and claim victory - I posted this before
[img] http://jeffreyhill.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341d417153ef01b7c817f5b9970b-800wi [/img]
😀junkyard
I guess this is what happens when it blue on blue
Migration crises dogs breakfast. Greek coirt rukes Greece cannot deport Syrians back to Turkey - contradicting a key element if the EU "solution" to the crises.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/20/syrian-refugee-wins-appeal-against-forced-return-to-turkey ]Guardian[/url]
Cameron's negotiation was doomed to fail as the EU knew he could not admit defeat politically, so they could offer little/nothing and he'd still accept and try and claim victory - I posted this before
Of course they were it was done to appease the euro skeptics in his party and to give them something to cheer about. The cartoon is interesting, replace Cameron with Borris and you have the future or the UK out of the EU, just a sad little nation clinging to the belief that it matters.
@mike you've posted one of Leave's key messages, Remainers just want to do Britain down and have no confidence in our nation. We are one of rhe richest and most innovative countries in the world. Within the EU we are an economic powerhouse second only to Germany, far more successful and influential than Spain and Italy, France too imo. The EU needs us badly, they have quite rightly negotiated from a position of strength with regard to reform as we have backed ourselves into a corner with successive Treaties/agreements and Junker decided he could afford to bet on a Remain vote.
You are posting from a nation of 25m people which does quite nicely thanks. Independent, democratic with controlled immigration and without the beaurocratic ties of a lidicrous polital organisation holding it back
I'm posting from a nation that is looking to build closer ties with it's neighbours.
I'm not trying to put the UK down but point out that as part of a bigger group the UK stands taller.
The EU may need the UK, but it can live without it. I've still not see enough of a convincing argument that the UK can be better without the EU. Forgive me for coming back to this time and time again but most of the arguments you have posted have been proven to be wrong, made up or exaggerated.
Cameron's negotiation was doomed to fail as the EU knew he could not admit defeat politically, so they could offer little/nothing and he'd still accept and try and claim victory - I posted this before
Still doesn't make it true.
Cameron talked a lot of tosh about a reformed Europe hence there were absurd expectations re the negotiations. They were never going to produce reforms of Europe. They were about clarifying the UK's position with Europe especially re €, Schengen, borders, legislation and then the trivialities that Brexiteers like to pretend are important - money sent home (yes those squillions). He secured most of what any sensible person would want - although the eh exiting squillions remain gazillions - and (overselling apart, OK massive overselling apart) largely did a good job.
Does the summary need to be published for a fourth time?
The thing that has disappointed me most in this is that out camp haven't really explained what our post exit trading arrangements will look like. They knew a year ago that we were going to have this poll and I think if you campaigning for change you need to spell out what your plan B is as you are saying "plan A is not working."
We all know that the EU is not perfect. its a group of 28 countries so I reckon its certain that no one will like all aspects of the EU all the time. But I'd to think that the people campaigning for out can at least explain why it would be better.
Even some basics would help. We are clearly going to have to negotiate with a pissed off EU, so it would be worth knowing what we would expect to give way on and what we know the EU would have to concede.
I thought Gove's intervention regarding the NHS presented a very compelling argument...
Especially with yesterday's NHS deficit figures and analysis of the causes
Surprised it hasn't been picked up on here!
Gove - Best "Remain" speech of the week 😯
you've posted one of Leave's key messages, Remainers just want to do Britain down and have no confidence in our nation
I have no confidence in my ability to win a world Downhill event I am not doing myself down I am accurately describing reality. You ought to try this one day rather than wrap yourself in the jingoistic flag of patriotic hope.....in Paris.
Does the summary need to be published for a fourth time?
I have yet to find the number of times that jamby needs to be shown a fact to accept it. Generally he tells you what one of his friends thinks
Endured Gove on the radio and his "absolute" confidence in his made up data. Don't they feel embarrassed?
Forgive me for coming back to this time and time again but most of the arguments you have posted have been proven to be wrong, made up or exaggerated.
Thats just bollix @mike. You are starting to reguritate the nonsense of others. If we Remain we'll be dragged into the mire of a sovereign debt crisis which is going to make 2008 onwards look like an afternoon tea party. Add that on top of the economic stagnation in europe today and you have the future of Remain. Talk me through Australia's new trading arrangements - they accept freedom of movement, a court and un-democratic law making body superior to their own, they make a big net payment in return for exporting less than they import. They will NEVER sign such an agreement. Australia's controlled immigration doesn't even let you live where you want in the country if accepted - Perth yes, Sydney no.
@tmh not a single sentence of Cameron's agreement is legally binding, its a memo of understanding as it where. Its a fantasy.
@arnieb - the US and China have no trade agreements with the EU, if we don't neogtiate one which [b]suits us[/b] we don't have to bother. You don't need a trade agreement to trade and thencurrent EU setup doesn't suit us. The the flip side the EU needs our trade flows so its my view they'll be keen to secure one. Combine that with the economic disaster above and you have our negotiating position. The politicains at the EU commision are already pissed off at us as we didn't join the euro (fiasco).
Remind me of the U.K. Contribution to the European Stability Fund?
So do you think that the UK is going to part of the Euro, that Schengen doesn't apply to us etc.....?
Gove is an odious little toad
But his comments yesterday were fascinating - essentially 5M EU "economic migrants" will sink the NHS.
Sorry, that's a classic case of logic fail....
Let's put migrants to one side, for one moment. The UKs "cradle to grave" welfare system, including the NHS either works or doesn't.
The system is designed to be taxpayer funded. The deal is:
- you're born
- the state provides an education
- you work, paying tax & NI to fund the system
- the state provides healthcare and pension support
- you die
Yesterday's NHS deficit figures were clear. The funding crises has two clear causes
1. Reduced budget provision (Govt austerity)
2. Increased demand
BUT. the increased unfunded demand is from pensioners with multiple complex problems. That is where the model breaks. Funding over 30-40 years of working and paying taxes does not match the draw on the kitty made by people who are now living 30-40 years in retirement.
What we NEED are MORE working age taxpayers
In that respect, 5M additional taxpayer will only help the NHs
Paris at the moment indeed Junky. We (Mrs B and I) where talking about the future over dinner last night with a friend and ex-colleague of mine who's just relocated to Tel Aviv, sees little opportunity here and didn't feel safe enough to come back to Europe from Asia either. I think with a Remain vote we'll look at California if we can get in which will be difficult given my age, 2-3 year project probably to make it happen. Backup plan is Switzerland for part of the year at least. Having lived in Asia its quite stark how they see Europe as having the history and character but its not seen as a place of economic vitality, yes Chinese multi-millionaires buy in London as a bolt hole in case China closes down but economically the opportunity is in the East.
I've laid out my future for fhe EU, the euro debacle could happen as soon as July but probably 2017. Our bailout contribution (loan/gift) - £30bn, £40bn, £50bn who knows ? Europe sliding downwards economically and falling further behind the rest of the world. Let's see how it maps out, then we can come back and take stock here.
rkk01 - Member
What we NEED are MORE working age taxpayers
In that respect, 5M additional taxpayer will only help the NHs
Also worth reiterating, in that context, that EU migrants provide a NET BENEFIT to the UK.
What we NEED are MORE working age taxpayers
You're right, but there's a lag. There's a period between immigrants turning up and infrastructure being scaled to support them, and given the basic incompetence we have with doing anything in this country that is going to be a big if not indefinite lag.
So he's right too. Catch 22.
What we NEED are MORE working age taxpayersIn that respect, 5M additional taxpayer will only help the NHs
That only makes sense if you assume these people will leave the UK on retirement. We don't pay enough tax/ni to cover pensions and future nhs bills and so many of the new immigrants are in low paid work paying very little in taxes.
Staying in the EU will be devastating for ordinary working people. We already get pages and pages of complaints about income inequality, what will another 100m low paid new EU citizens with freedommof movement do to wages in the UK ?
@tmh Osbourne managed to weasel out of the request last time as Junker agreed a contribution would be very negative wrt the Referedum. You can remind me of our contribution after the Greek default/debacle etc
Cameron on Turkey and the EU. Off to fettle bike and go for a ride, see you all later
They definitely don't have immigrants working low paid jobs in California
You are starting to reguritate the nonsense of others
Others meaning everyone on the forum
No one defends your version of facts in any thread ever- see thm I told you it was loads
It like his argument...nothing at all.Remind me of the U.K. Contribution to the European Stability Fund?
@tmh not a single sentence of Cameron's agreement is legally binding, its a memo of understanding as it where. Its a fantasy.
Full fact say you are being inaccurate with the truth again- basically its all legally binding some under international law and some under EU law.
You are pedalling porkies again or as mike said
most of the arguments you have posted have been proven to be wrong, made up or exaggerated.
You just did again whilst refuting this point.
https://fullfact.org/europe/explaining-eu-deal-it-legally-binding/
SO that is how you are interpreting Junkers "bullying" that "proved your point". He has said they wont do this and everyone knows they wont. they will punish us to discourage others from following, its not in the EU interest for us to secure a good trade deal or to flourish as it will encourage others to leave, they want the UK to fail when we go and we still need them more than we need them as we harm them where as they cripple us. Amusingly you cannot even do the maths 🙄The the flip side the EU needs our trade flows so its my view they'll be keen to secure one.
I know you will claim this is bullying but is just "business" .
Your argument is contradictory, incoherent, illogical and utterly false in every possible way imaginable.
I suggest you get it chiseled as a pledge on a massive stone and carry it around with you 😉
I think with a Remain vote we'll look at California
I will get that chiselled in stone and use that as my campaigning slogan 😛
[i]BUT. the increased unfunded demand is from pensioners with multiple complex problems. That is where the model breaks. Funding over 30-40 years of working and paying taxes does not match the draw on the kitty made by people who are now living 30-40 years in retirement.[/i]
+1
My folks retired at 60 (now 80); Dad reckons he's got more out of the system in the last 20 years than he put in for the previous 40 years (decent earner too).
He's pretty much using the NHS every week including at least 4 weeks in hospital last year, and many many days/weeks before (due to long-term illness). He also has 4 carer visits per day and Mum gets £80 carers allowance on top of all the other allowances/pensions etc.
Mum is healthy, but still has the usual ailments that require too many visits.
Yes I agree on the immigration thing, and if we vote out then immigration will still occur and we will have far more options and flexibility to take in more non-EU migrants with a completely different skill set and background - maybe more doctors, nurses, computer scientists, research scientists, instead of plumbers and strawberry pickers. And keep out Europe's fleeing murderers and rapists - we have enough of our own murders and rapists to deal with.
rkk01 - logic fail on your part i'm afraid in blaming pensioners who've paid into the system all their lives rather than immigrants who haven't contributed at all. Most of those pensioners you talk about have paid into the system all their lives and have been significant net contributors to the system. Millions of EU migrants suddenly 'flooding' the country, alot coming with significant and expensive health problems some of which had been eradicated from the UK, have not contributed anything. The NHS is not a charity, nor is it a bottomless pit of money and there is more money going into the NHS now than ever before and the NHS budget is protected by successive governments so has not been cut. Not sure how you think it is logical that if you flood any system with limited funding with significant increase in demand that it won't come under severe stress or even break at some point. The NHS is funded by people, taxpayers, not 'The Government' so each individual pays into it and from time to time uses the system. The NHS relies on the fact that generally most people pay more into it that they take out of it over their lifetime, but now with people living longer that model is already being tested and strained, so a sudden massive increase in demand would break it.
I have no idea if the scare stories of millions of immigrants flooding our country is true to not, but if true it is clear that the NHS will come under even more strain than it is currently under as most migrants seem to want to come to either the UK or Germany.
rkk01 - logic fail on your part i'm afraid in blaming pensioners who've paid into the system all their lives
That's not how it works. It's a ponzi scheme. You pay for the current beneficiaries with the hope that in future somebody will pay for you.
Most of those pensioners you talk about have paid into the system all their lives and have been significant net contributors to the system
LOL
Straw man the claim was
he increased unfunded demand is from pensioners with multiple complex problems. That is where the model breaks. Funding over 30-40 years of working and paying taxes does not match the draw on the kitty made by people who are now living 30-40 years in retirement.
Its highly unlikely they were net contributors as over 50% of households are not net contributors to tax
If you want to lecture folk on logic then dont do it with a fallacy/ straw man
[b]Definitely dont do it with a straw man that is not even true[/b]
Some days I love STW 😆
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/20/british-deserters-will-face-the-consequences-warns-eus-juncker/ ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/20/british-deserters-will-face-the-consequences-warns-eus-juncker/[/url]
Threats from a desperate EU Commissioner. Show me where I tick 'out'!
@tmh Osbourne managed to weasel out of the request last time as Junker agreed a contribution would be very negative wrt the Referedum. You can remind me of our contribution after the Greek default/debacle etc
That is not answering the question. You are making a big point of this so
1. How is the ESF funded and by whom?
2. What is our role?
3. What did we contribute in the past?
4 What will we contribute in the future?
5. As an out country, will we stil be exposed via IMF etc?
I have no idea if the scare stories of millions of immigrants flooding our country is true to not, but if true it is clear that the NHS will come under even more strain than it is currently under as most migrants seem to want to come to either the UK or Germany.
If only there was somewhere that published the figures so you could check.
I assume by migrants you mean the refugees? as convenient as it is to shoo them away there is a humanitarian crisis going on that Greece isn't big enough to cope with.
As for EU migration it's not that big, those that come pay tax and contribute as opposed to those born here who take out for a good 18 years before contributing anything.
The solution to NHS capacity isn't putting a full sign up it's about working out how to fund it properly.
I spent yesterday morning in the local hospital. If you'd emptied out all except the white British people (patients and staff), I'd have been on my own.
Good or bad is another question.
Threats from a desperate EU Commissioner.
we did that yesterday he said that if we leave the EU wont help us
Why is stating the blindingly obvious truth a threat?
If i divorce my wife she wont do my washing or iron my shirts- Binners sexism not mine 😉
Its not a threat its just true.
Anyway brexit says we will be able to negotiate ace terms and when they say no the argument is look we must leave as they are bullies
Essentially either option "proved" your view. Hence why debate is so difficult.
Out
Reasons why:
Non elected officials with immense legislative power; operating under a practically autonomous remit.
Non auditable budget in which they spend my taxes
No control over borders. This isn't a xenophobic attitude, I'm proud of this countries historical immigration record, we are essentially a country of immigrants. However I believe we should have the right to control over who we left in and who we chose to expel.
We are the 5th richest nation in the world, we will have access to European and worlds markets. People state we will lose our bargaining power by going alone, we will increase our bargaining power. As stated we are the 5th richest nation, we will go into negations in our own right without the burden or a predominately failed Europe. You take Germany and to a lesser extend France out of our European economic bargaining power and you effectively have more dead weight than anything that gives Europe additional bargaining power. We are propping up what are effectively failed states, states that have failed due to massively mismanaged tax regimes and corruption.
I have no idea if the scare stories of millions of immigrants flooding our country is true to not, but if true it is clear that the NHS will come under even more strain than it is currently under as most migrants seem to want to come to either the UK or Germany.
I work in the NHS as agency, as such I get to experience multiple sites
There are many areas in the country where my daily work list is predominately foreign nationals, these are also in the main not people that will be having a net positive financial contribution to the UK.
[img] 
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On Any Answers on Radio 4 at the moment, the calm and measured Outers are quoting Goebells desire to create a European superstate. They''ve not graduated onto accusing Junkers of being a genocidal mass murderer yet, but I'm sure they're just getting warmed up.
Nut jobs!
deadlydarcy - Member
Excellent!
We have another supporter from [b]deadlydarcy to Vote OUT[/b].
I went to a pub yesterday with work colleagues so they started the topic on IN or OUT and they asked me who I would vote for. I just told them I would Vote OUT. I think both of them are Voting IN but very reluctantly ...
Anyhoo, they changed the subject after hearing my rational. Cut long story short I told them I would vote against extremely large bureaucratic system (that's what you lot are heading for if you Vote IN). I think they did agree with me but somehow are still unsure of the future of IN or OUT. 😆
Non elected officials with immense legislative power; operating under a practically autonomous remit.
you have confused a DM headline with what actually happens.
Briefly, National govts appoint commissioners, the president gives them a role, the parliament approves the entire cabinet, they can then propose laws which parliament must pass. For unelected you need to look at the House of lords in this country and our head of state
Non auditable budget in which they spend my taxes
Just a lie. Please see fact check
No control over borders.
Overstating the actual issue on so many levels and just not true.
we will have access to European and worlds markets.
We already do and clearly we will lose free access to the former. Are you claiming we will get better access to the EU or the world by leaving? If so why?
People state we will lose our bargaining power by going alone, we will increase our bargaining power.
In what sense is a smaller economic power more powerful than a more powerful one? What did obama say again on this point?
One day we will get a rational Brexiter able to state facts...its not today though.
Junkyard - lazarus
What did obama say again on this point?
I bet he was seen playing golf with the One Billion US$ Dollar PM from the far east (a certain PM that seem to have One Billion Dollar fund suddenly appearing in his personal account - not proven to be his because he said the fund was donated by the Saudi). Yes, One Billion US$! How much are all the Presidents and PM earn in a year combine by comparison? One Billion US$? Can you beat that?
Way to go President Obama I bet your Post Presidential income will now be secured for generations to come.
Junkyard - lazarusJust a lie. Please see fact check
Fact checkits payments have been consistently found subject to significant error for the past 18 years.
It's ok kids, the accounts can be audited. 😀
That the figures don't add up to the tune of billions I'm sure isn't the salient point here. 💡
What did Obama say again on this point?
That we'd be back of the queue for TTIP.
Result! 😀
sbob - Member
What did Obama say again on this point?
That we'd be back of the queue for TTIP.
Result!
Let's play golf and tell me how to make more money?
tell me how to make more money?
Sue a government. 😉
In what sense is a smaller economic power more powerful than a more powerful one? What did obama say again on this point?One day we will get a rational Brexiter able to state facts...its not today though.
In what way have you quoted the [b]facts?[/b]
You have countered my augments with nothing but flawed opinion
FWIW Ive already stated how our "smaller" economic power is in a stronger place to negotiate trade deals
😯You have countered my augments with nothing but flawed opinion
[b]One day we will get a rational Brexiter able to state facts...its not today though.[/b]
Random,
[b]facts[/b], you can't handle the facts.
FWIW Ive already [i]stated [/i]how our "smaller" economic power is in a stronger place to negotiate trade deals
Simply stating something doesn't make it true, something both sides seem to have a problem with although from my perspective the bullshitometer tends to go way higher with the outers pronouncements
Simply stating something doesn't make it true, something both sides seem to have a problem with although from my perspective the bullshitometer tends to go way higher with the outers pronouncements
The other chap is the one that brought up the issue of "facts"
Ive stated my opinion and not claimed it to be anything other than that
The vast majority of whats been posted here is opinion, ive seen no disclosures stating such so far.
FWIW both sides are arguing predominantly unknowns
In my opinion the Brexit side of the argument seems more aspirational versus Bremain who's biggest argument seems to be the terrifying aspect of going against apathy.
the other chap is the one that brought up the issue of "facts"
You say that like it is a bad thing that I pointed out your claims were factually incorrect 😕
Why "facts" what you said was just untrue.
If i say Boris is not an MP , not a Politician and has green hair, its not really an opinion its just untrue. Your claims about the EU were that unfounded
Yours
the other chap
FWIW both sides are arguing predominantly unknowns
They're mostly talking bullocks.
You say that like it is a bad thing that I pointed out your claims were factually incorrect
It seemed as if you were stating you're assertions were facts when they are your opinion (and largely wrong). I'll concede the argument on the audit in so far I was keeping it brief.
I should have stated they've been audited but refuse to sign off on it due to it highlights gross mismanagement of tax payers money
It then becomes a technicality as to the merits/value of the audit...in essence it may as well not exist
According to the annual report of the European Court of Auditors, seen by The Telegraph, £5.5 billion of the EU budget last year was misspent because of controls on spending that were deemed to be only “partially effective” by experts.The audit, published this morning, found that £109 billion out of a total of £117 billion spent by the EU in 2013 was "affected by material error”.
It means that the Brussels accounts have not been given the all clear for 19 years running
That's a huge amount of tax payers money (I'm not just on about the £117 Billion for 2013) that hasn't been correctly accounted for
It seemed as if you were stating you're assertions were facts when they are your opinion (and largely wrong). I'll concede the argument on the audit .
So we both accept they were audited and that your point was incorrect and your "opinion" on facts was wrong. I have rarely seen an admission of such a basic error so shittly or ungraciously handled.
Perhaps we can move on the bureaucrats now and you can insult me some more about you getting some other basic facts wrong ?
🙄
So we both accept they were audited and that your point was incorrect and your "opinion" on facts was wrong. I have rarely seen an admission of such a basic error so shittly or ungraciously handled.Perhaps we can move on the bureaucrats now and you can insult me some more about you getting some other basic facts wrong ?
I made a "bullet point" statement that whilst in the realm of semantics is correct
You seem to have taken a couple of forum post massively out of context (with regards me insulting you lol) and got uber defensive.
I'm going to move on cheers, enjoy the rest of your rational discussion
I made a "bullet point" statement that whilst in the realm of semantics is arguably correct
. I'll concede the argument on the audit .
Bye
I'll concede the argument on the audit in so far I was keeping it brief.
At least have the integrity to correctly quote someone
MEPs are allowed £45k per anum of expenses without needing to provide a receipt 8O. Thats how corrupt the place is.
@tmh we will be told to make a very large contribution when Greece blows up. The IMF want out - they demand a debt write off but they won't be part of it. Somwe won't be exposed via the IMF (we rae currently) as the IMF debt will be repaid prior to the write off.
Interesting poll data on Economists site. Remain ahead but what really caught my eye was the big lead Leave have with low-skilled, un-skilled and the unemployed 49 vs 36
Good point Jamby why can they not have such bastions of expenses probity that are the UK MP's
I'm going to move on cheers, enjoy the rest of your rational discussion
Do you ever stop contradicting yourself with the very next post?
Oh and I guess that will be you not insulting me for you being wrong again 😕
jambalaya - Member
Remain ahead but what really caught my eye was the big lead Leave have with low-skilled, un-skilled and the unemployed 49 vs 36
No surprise there to me because that is exactly how the system works.
This mega bureaucratic EU system exist as a form to maintain those elites in their positions by ensuring those with low-skilled, un-skilled and etc remain in theirs. No difference from other Politburo.
Leaked Government memo prepared earlier his year shows UK is missing out on a potential £2.5bn pa benefit of a trade deal with Latin America as other EU countries such as France are blocking it to protect their farmers
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/21/trade-wars-memo-shows-eu-is-costing-uk-billions/ ]Linky[/url]
Good point Jamby why can they not have such bastions of expenses probity that are the UK MP's
By comparison they are, even the SNP look whiter than white by comparison
Never mind that! According to our calm, measured and honest Sunday papers, there are approximately 12 million Turkish and Albanian rapists who will be moving in next door to you if we remain in the EU!
I'm voting in, mainly on the ground that the majority of people who tell me they are voting leave seem angry or thick, and sometimes a combination of the two. I don't think either side has campaign a particularly compelling or believable argument. But looking at the pulsing viens on your average red faced leave advocate, it just makes me think if we do vote leave it's all going to go a bit 'lord of the flies' here.
Never mind that! According to our calm, measured and honest Sunday papers, there are approximately 12 million Turkish and Albanian rapists who will be moving in next door to you if we remain in the EU!
They won't be moving in next to you. They'll be immediately occupying NHS beds. Do get your facts straight.
They'll be immediately occupying NHS beds. Do get your facts straight.
While taking your job!
Simultaneously claiming benefits.
And sending them all home to mum.
who gets the child benefit payments
I bet their sending all their criminals here 😉
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British criminals hiding in Spain are being targeted by police who are displaying their photos on screens in popular expat areas.
A 13ft (4m) digital screen is touring areas such as Benidorm, Malaga and Puerto Banus as part of Operation Captura.
So far, 68 out of 86 people have been apprehended.
The images include people wanted in connection with crimes such as murder and drug trafficking.
Trivialising and mocking those concerned about immigration is why UKIP are making such gains in Labour constituencies. Immigrants from Turkey or Eastern Europe don't impact my employment terms but they do theirs. The lack of a coherant policy on immigration as well as Corbyn's "redefining capitalism" economics could do to Labour in England what the SNP have achieved in Scotland.
DrJ don't worry there are large numbers of spare hospital beds and school places and Drac EU immigrants claim a higher proportion of in-work benefits than do native Brits, the average claim (of those making a claim) is around £6k
@mike Spain has always been a popular hide out for British "gangsters" - I wonder why that is ? How much effort do you think Spanish Police make in tracking down British criminals ? But hey ho with the super efficient Spanish security services on our side we are mich safer remember.