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Am I right in thinking that MPs have voted to make BJ ask for an extension and he is refusing to do so?
So Perfefle is saying he won’t send the letter. What about the court case a couple of weeks ago? The one where the government gave an undertaking to follow the benn act - and therefore the judge saw no reason to continue with the case...... isn’t that pretty bad? Contempt of court?
Am I right in thinking that MPs have voted to make BJ ask for an extension and he is refusing to do so?
Yes, PM BoJo will refuse as he said in the Commons.
Nothing they can do about it. 😄
I think if you're prepared to lie to the Queen then you're prepared to lie to anyone.
Maybe Barbara will have a chat with him between now and then.
Hmm Don’t forget that Suspended Court of Sessions case.
He’s playing games for the upcoming election.
So Perfefle is saying he won’t send the letter. What about the court case a couple of weeks ago? The one where the government gave an undertaking to follow the benn act – and therefore the judge saw no reason to continue with the case…… isn’t that pretty bad? Contempt of court?
Yep but it was suspended and the Judge is right to see if he complies with his undertaking
Just as well I'm not running one of the the EU 27, my attitude would be to refuse an extension, let the UK crash out and then start negotiating from a position of strength. Impose a complete package of measures to suit Ireland and the rest of the EU and sit on WTO conditions with no concessions until Britain signs up to the total package.
...my attitude would be to refuse an extension, let the UK crash out and then start negotiating from a position of strength.
Yes, that is much more logical instead of current impasse.
But before they start negotiation there should be a GE in the UK.
😄
Just as well I’m not running one of the the EU 27, my attitude would be to refuse an extension, let the UK crash out and then start negotiating from a position of strength. Impose
He got the deal as it was in their favour - sorts out his NI mess.
They’re already in a position of strength.
I'm also a bit confused. I'm of the understanding Boris would have to send the letter had the vote on the deal been passed. Am I right in thinking because they didn't vote, that's his get out clause, and why he sees no obligation of sending it?
But even if this is the case, and they vote early next week, and it passes, he still must send the letter?
Or am I way off the mark?
True, dude, but the balance shifts dramitcally in the event of no deal. Once the possibility of withrawing Art. 50 goes then it's no longer negotiation, it's begging with zero leverage. The worst Britain can threaten at the moment is withdrawing Art. 50, if Britian has left with no deal what leverage is left - nothing.
... if Britian has left with no deal what leverage is left – nothing.
Try it.
They might just have underestimated UK.
It's not possible to underestimate the UK, that's what the EU has learned from the last three years. What you gonna do? Nuke us? 😉
They might just have underestimated UK.
Three-and-a-half years, two extensions, seven defections, 21 deselections, three prime ministers, countless amendments, two prorogations, one Supreme Court judgement, and we’re still at square one.
And you think the UK has been "underestimated"?!
Is this the moment when the UK finally jumps up, throws off it's cloak of utter and complete incompetence and goes "haha, we fooled you all along!"
No, I don't think so either.
Nothing they can do about it.
On the contrary, he can be banged up for being in contempt, but you carry on in your anarchist fantasy.
It’s not possible to underestimate the UK, that’s what the EU has learned from the last three years. What you gonna do? Nuke us? 😉
True, true.
Or send in the EU army ... 😄
On the contrary, he can be banged up for being in contempt, but you carry on in your anarchist fantasy.
PM BoJo said it in the Commons just now straight to the face of the oppositions saying he would not ask for extension.
Three-and-a-half years, two extensions, seven defections, 21 deselections, three prime ministers, countless amendments, two prorogations, one Supreme Court judgement, and we’re still at square one.
And you think the UK has been “underestimated”?!
Is this the moment when the UK finally jumps up, throws off it’s cloak of utter and complete incompetence and goes “haha, we fooled you all along!”No, I don’t think so either.
Bravo!
Get a bloody dictionary man
😆
Laura Pidcock on C4 news. FFS.
SNP - let’s vote this week to have a referendum.
LibDem - let’s vote this week to have a referendum.
Labour - …
PM BoJo said it in the Commons just now straight to the face of the oppositions saying he would not ask for extension
Fabulous, of course what's said in parliament can't be prosecuted, however as the law stands if he doesn't write the letter he can be held in contempt and sent to jail. That would be truly glorious.
Laura Pidcock on C4 news. FFS.
Labour – …
She was "answering" the question in a very very long winded way ... what's the question again? 😆
Fabulous, of course what’s said in parliament can’t be prosecuted, however as the law stands if he doesn’t write the letter he can be held in contempt and sent to jail. That would be truly glorious.
Both sides should try it because PM BoJo was very confident in saying NO law against that ...
He hasn't said he won't send the letter
PM BoJo said it in the Commons just now straight to the face of the oppositions saying he would not ask for extension.
Yes Boris Johnson would never lie to anyone's face
'there's no press here'
https://twitter.com/MarkMyWordsJCPM/status/1174329084152832000?s=19
He hasn’t said he won’t send the letter
In that case the letter he might just say "ask for extension" then with two fingers emoji added, or he could send a letter saying that he wants more! It is still a letter 😆
This is not a war, it is a policy decision on trade and international working rights.
One that is going to result in a >6% contraction in GDP. That level of economic downturn will affect EVERYTHING. Policing, education, health, infrastructure, military, EVERY GODDAMN THING.
Dazh, excuse the personal question, but do you have any kids? The main reason I am so incandescent about Brexit is that it is their future that is being sacrificed on the altar of petty nationalism. If I was childless I probably wouldn’t be so angry, I could adapt.
Public services in this country are on their knees. I wish I earned enough to send my kids to private school because some of the ‘savings initiatives’ I have seen schools launch are, frankly, pathetic. There are basically no police visible any more. A large proportion of people are openly committing dangerous criminal offenses (I am thinking most about rabbiting on the phone, hand held, whilst driving, but there are others) and they know they stand next to no chance of being caught. On the large business park that my office is on, there is a crappy carvery pub. Twice, at lunchtime on a week day, I have seen people openly dealing drugs in the car park of the pub. The pub is less than half a mile from the HQ of the County police force.
A 6% contraction in GDP is going to send this country off of the rails. It is about everything.
if he doesn’t write the letter he can be held in contempt and sent to jail. That would be truly glorious.
But we'd still be out with no deal. Not so glorious.
Dunno if it was mentioned, apologies if so, I've been out all day. But Letwin Amendment passed, 322-306.
He didn't say he wouldn't send a letter, he said he wouldn't negotiate an extension. I thought it was an odd way for him to say it but perhaps he intends to demand an unreasonably short extension which the EU won't like, hence they don't accept. Maybe.
The quote I heard was that he refused to negotiate an extension, I didn't hear him say he wouldn't send the letter. I may have misunderstood
I would love it if Juncker did the parent ear-tugging thing when BloHard grudgingly dumps the letter on his desk.
“Now, that won’t do, will it, you naughty boy? Now, what’s the magic word? Come on, you know the magic word, don’t you? You say I would like an extension......p-l-e-a-s-e......”
Make the bastard get down on his knees and beg.
The quote I heard was that he refused to negotiate an extension, I didn’t hear him say he wouldn’t send the letter. I may have misunderstood
So the letter is just going to say?
Dear Sir.
Regards
Boris.
The form of the letter is prescribed in the Act, it is sent to Tusk who doesn't have a vote - it is up to the leaders who essentially have a common interest with Boris to get the deal done therefore likely to be helpful to his cause.
The wording of the letter is set out in the bill. He’s sure as hell making it clear to the EU in advance that he doesn’t want the extension though.
Wasn’t the content of the letter also defined in the benn act?
Edit - too slow, as above
So the letter is just going to say?
Dear Sir.
Regards
Boris.
Don’t put it past him.
Saying something along the lines of “we hate you, you are a bunch of bumboys*, grant us an extension or we will will give you a good British style thrashing” would play rather well with the kind of dickhead that wants Brexit.
There is nothing that cockwomble Johnson won’t sink to.
*To quote Alexander Boris Picaninnies Watermelon Bumboys de Pfeffel Johnson. Man of the people himself.
it is up to the leaders who essentially have a common interest with Boris to get the deal done
Or not as the case may be.
Or not as the case may be.
Which is just as helpful to Johnson
But haven't the EU27 said they'd allow an extension for a GE or ref2?
Which will Westminster choose next week?
Which is just as helpful to Johnson
Both would assume that the EU leaders now consider Brexit the best option. So despite the economic impact on the EU member states (admittedly somewhat less than on the UK) relations with the UK are so poor that the UK is no longer considered a positive force for Europe and EU leaders would rather see the UK leave one way or another.
That's how much damage has been done in the last three years.
But still the odds are an extension will be granted and that will ultimately lead to referendum and remain. I still haven't pulled the final plug on my UK investments, it came very close yesterday but today's events have vindicated yesterday's decision.
I think the odds against that are increasing all the time Ed, but it’s still not impossible.
From Twitter is this legit
Oh crap, I've just realised what Johnson's plan is
He's gonna get Chris Grayling to deliver it!
Probably cost taxpayer a few £million, he'll end up hand delivering it to Donald Trump in a secure briefcase permanently handcuffed to his wrist, having lost the key
Bravo
It's from Have I got news for you twitter.
Johnson fanzine confirms it
Almost speechless.
I'm a teacher. This is the kind of petulant behaviour and trying to squirm out of stuff I see from 12 year olds when they've done something wrong but can't admit it to themselves or others...
Don’t see why the EU can’t still give him a delay?
Sweet mother of God. This has just turned surreal.
thegreatape
Don’t see why the EU can’t still give him a delay?
I guess they could, but then that gives BJ an even bigger 'I didn't sign the letter - faceless unelected EU goons making decisions that override our precious sovereignty' card to play.
That bottom story on the telegraph about the public not standing meekly by.
So where are the pro-brexit marches? Has anyone seen one?
I don't think it was possible to hate someone as much as I hate BoJo
A despicable creature. An absolute embarrassment to us all.
Sadly his deluded lap dogs will lap these antics up.
The courts will tear him to shreds over this.
spekkie
Sweet mother of God. This has just turned surreal.
"just"?
Johnson's antics playing to his Sun-reader fanbase.
ITV news is speculating that the EU will "help" Johnson by not being in a hurry to agree anything basically.
You can see where they are coming from I suppose. I wish it wasn't the case but I can see why they will do this. This country is probably more damaging to them within the UK than out now. What a mess and deeply saddening to see.
I think BJ will get the nod from the mp's next week for the bill to go through and will never be held in contempt of court. More to the point, will never suffer and repercussions from doing so. His type never do.
Horrifying to say but we are one our way out with a Hard Brexit and then desperate pain and conflict for many years to come. Hell we still might crash out in 14 months anyway as the trade deals are always going to be the hard part after the "easy" withdrawal deal.
I hope the people that think getting this deal through remember how utterly dumb they were for thinking this finished the whole Brexit mess! What a joke, this is just the start!
squadra
Member
Johnson’s antics playing to his Sun-reader fanbase.
This
Right now I am so angry I could perfectly happily take one for the 'team' and repeatedly punch BoJo in the face until either he gets the message or my arms snap off.
He's just running the clock down, nothing more. By the time any legal challenges have happened he'll have done what he wants and we'll be the ones paying the price.
jam bo
So where are the pro-brexit marches? Has anyone seen one?
Manchester is holding one I think. They are expecting dozens to attend.
Yeah I know, I almost added "well more than normal anyway"
its just that now, all pretence has gone out the window.
For all his time, the pro Brxit crew have been banging on about "giving the people what the people want", but now that the MP's, who speak for "the people", want something contrary to Brexit, what the people want suddenly doesn't count for anything. Now there's a surprise . . . .
I think BJ will get the nod from the mp’s next week for the bill to go through
I don't. His antics tonight will not go down well. Coupled with the fact this is an ERG wet dream brexit he's cooked up. They'll take him down now. He simply cannot be allowed to succeed via this type of behaviour.
Benn act is now law and has been acted upon. DAG stating lack of signature is irrelevant.
If EU grant an extension, then VONC followed by GE
If they don't grant an extension, then it's VONC and revoke in all likelihood, followed by a GE
The EU will grant an extension. No way are they going to be the the fall guys in this almighty mess.
It feels grimly appropriate if Boris Johnson writes a letter to the EU asking for an extension then another one saying the opposite as him writing two opposite pieces is exactly where this whole catastro**** began.
— David Schneider (@davidschneider) October 19, 2019
It looks like PM BoJo has something up his sleeve 😀
The EU will grant an extension. No way are they going to be the the fall guys in this almighty mess.
Not if he has worded the letter differently to the UK advantage. 😄
Is this what our green and pleasant land has become? Led by a prime minister who disregards the law, will lie and weasel his way around the rules and regulations that are supposed to guide and protect us?
It’s what many voters want. And he knows it. It is definitely what Dominic Cummings wants… he spent years telling us.
Is this what our green and pleasant land has become? Led by a prime minister who disregards the law, will lie and weasel his way around the rules and regulations that are supposed to guide and protect us?
The law just says send a letter requesting extension.
He has followed the law but perhaps adding extra or ignore certain details. 😄
He can even write the letter by saying "Requesting for an extension and if they agree then they will formally install him as emperor of EU". 🤣
He's caved in and sent the letter, he's just a serial bullshitter.
PSA - the killfile is an extremely effective way of removing moronic posts, non-sequiturs and blatant trolling attempts from spoiling your forum experience.
Have just returned from Parliament Square where I was protesting along with others. Aside from a large drunk Leave guy who wanted a fight at Victoria Station, everything went very well.
The large drunk guy had nothing beyond "I voted to leave". He had no facts, no argument. He tried the "I'm working class innit" angle, turns out he's got more higher ed qualifications than me. He made a point of asking my friend whether he was born here, when shown evidence and talked through what's happening he had nothing to give. We shook hands.
I also wound up drinking with a bunch of young Conservatives for Europe. It's a crazy world when Michael Hezeltine is a hero to both Tories and non-Tories like myself.
shinton
Member
The EU will grant an extension. No way are they going to be the the fall guys in this almighty mess.
They absolutely would eventually. However as the bill might be passed by next Tuesday and they would have to pull all the stops out to agree to it before then, it makes sense for them to take a little while. Hoping the pressure will get the bill passed.
Again, you can see where they are going from. Basically and deeply ironically, rather than them "bullying us to stay in. BS" etc etc... We are being, politely, handed our hat and coat.
The UK is now the sick man of Europe again and they rightly want us out. Unless by a miracle we changed our minds.
Does anyone believe that Brexiteers could muster a peaceful demonstration in the hundreds or even tens of thousands?
Led by a prime minister who disregards the law,
Has he in this case ? The courts will decide whether he has or not.
All the criticism of BJ on here forgets that he was given the PM job with the single caveat of delivering brexit. He's going to at least try to do that one way or another.
He’s caved in and sent the letter, he’s just a serial bullshitter.
What else could he do, break the law ???
Does anyone believe that Brexiteers could muster a peaceful demonstration in the hundreds or even tens of thousands?
Why?
Demonstrate for what?
We can always demonstrate via the comfort of the ballot paper. 😀
We just don't vote for politicians or parties we don't like.
^^ I'm pretty sure that no-one on here gave him that job.
Does anyone believe that Brexiteers could muster a peaceful demonstration in the hundreds or even tens of thousands?
No.
Last time round there was football field jeering and some nut job with a bullhorn who kept going on about how the EU protects "peados".
The problem is that those who voted to Leave did so for so many different and conflicting reasons. There is no unifying coherent argument. Just look at our trolling non-sequitur posting friend for an example of this.
Does anyone believe that Brexiteers could muster a peaceful demonstration in the hundreds or even tens of thousands?
Again what would they protest about ? The referendum delivered a leave result. The process of leaving is still on going.
Has he in this case ? The courts will decide whether he has or not.
The Supreme Court has already stuck that label on him.
I'm in nough said 😉
JeZ