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People tend to ask “by what”… and the answer to that question tends to tell you if the concern is born of racism, or xenophobia, or something else.
You can keep talking about “culture”, but at some point @stevextc you have to get down to specifics. Only then can you work out the motivations.
It may well not be racism, but it's the very definition of xenophobia - a fear or dislike of something "other," something strange or foreign.
I think perhaps the stumbling block here is inferring that xenophobia is inherently Bad. It certainly has the potential to be, but wanting to spend time with people whom you have something in common with is a fairly natural human reaction. I mean, most folk would choose to go to the pub with their mates rather than a bunch of strangers, wouldn't they?
I think that's what Steve is trying to say? But going from here to racism is rather a fine line, isn't it.
which country would refuse it though?
Turkey.
turkey not in the commission
but I can see how they would want the deal NI has got
DD, I thought they were out of the running, what with not being in Europe?
I mean, I could see Hungary or Spain doing it for one reason or another (Gibraltar, Johnson pressure, etc) but not a non-member of Europe.
DD, I thought they were out of the running, what with not being in Europe?
Get outta here. They’ve not joined yet? 😲
You miss my point @Cougar… it may not be xenophobia at all… they might just dislike young people, noisy people, church bells, joggers, shell suits… I dunno… “culture” is such a wide term that more specifics are required. Many people currently hide behind the term when they’re really just racist… so when someone votes because of a fear of being isolated within a culture they don’t like… questions have to be asked. Find out what they mean. Don’t assume they’re racist… but if they aren’t, they need to articulate what they don’t like, not just keep saying “culture”.
Looking at the chart kimbers put up its going to go through isn’t it , maybe not by much but it only takes a few labour rebels .
Almost more depressing is if it does go through Boris is all of a sudden a Brexit hero for the 52% and would surely win a general election all because of a few labour rebel’s , what a mess Corbyn has made of all this .
What times kick off on Saturday?
In going to be glued to the box all day. A defining moment one way or another.
It is a worse deal than mays, yet the ERG are falling in line. Which just goes to show, they wanted their man in power for what comes afterwards. If it does go through life in Britain is going to get very messy.
Pleeeeaaase someone reassure me this shitty ‘deal’ isn’t going to make it through parliament. Please.
This is going to destroy our economy, result in the NHS being sold off to Trump and his mates and screw over normal people and their working conditions.
Corbyn is also a ****ing disgrace. He is going to sit on his hands whilst we are sold down the river.
Cougar...
It may well not be racism, but it’s the very definition of xenophobia – a fear or dislike of something “other,” something strange or foreign.
I think perhaps the stumbling block here is inferring that xenophobia is inherently Bad. It certainly has the potential to be, but wanting to spend time with people whom you have something in common with is a fairly natural human reaction. I mean, most folk would choose to go to the pub with their mates rather than a bunch of strangers, wouldn’t they?
I think that’s what Steve is trying to say? But going from here to racism is rather a fine line, isn’t it.
More or less....
I think xenophobia is quite natural... and a huge big grey area. At some point it can side up with racism/other-ism... and more importantly I think/believe it can be used as a lever to create racism/otherism.
This grey area is not just about race or religion (in the strict sense perhaps*).. for example I'm xenophobic about going in a Wetherspoons full of Brexiters (* hence perhaps).
I'm just uncomfortable having to listen to their crap.... and their expectation I go along...
So whether its some bloke in Abergevenny saying "I don't want a huge influx of English" or the same bloke saying he doesn't want a huge influx of Somali's it's the same thing... or for that matter some Spanish bloke saying "we don't want more English buying property here with their English pubs and English Cafe's"
I think it's perfectly acceptable... in the same way I feel I should be able to say I don't want to go to a Wetherspoons of Brexiters...
What I think is important is how that fine line can be pushed... if you refuse to let people have their opinion shouting them down (so to speak) with racist/homophobic/misogynist etc. and you tell them that enough then sooner or later many will actually start to behave that way when they are accepted elsewhere.
It's like telling a child they are crap every day of their life..
My point of saying this is because I believe their are many leave protest voters who actually fall into this category, indeed Leave has spent a long time grooming them.
I have one friend who is spouting racist crap...along with other Brexit crap for example... I can practically see the analytics and sentiment analysis that has identified him as "vulnerable" and targetted him ...based on his posts and views... or another devout catholic one.. again based on the crap he's posting I can practically design the analytics and how to segregate...in his case it was probably something to do with gay marriage or women priests...
The money behind leave is from a fairly nasty set of people... and they have pulled off a master coup... against all facts they have managed to get a whole load of turkey's voting for XMAS....
I find what they are doing way more sickening than some bloke saying I don't want my estate overwhelmed by <<insert here>>
Corbyn is also a **** disgrace. He is going to sit on his hands whilst we are sold down the river.
The way he's be talking suggests he'll whip against the deal?
There might be a few labour rebels, but more volitile are the indie MPs..
Anyone know the composition of them currently? I know a few are exiled Tories who might be looking to weasel thier way back under the tory whip..
You're a bit late, but welcome to the thread.
Looks about 50/50 that it'll fly.
Almost more depressing is if it does go through Boris is all of a sudden a Brexit hero for the 52% and would surely win a general election all because of a few labour rebel’s , what a mess Corbyn has made of all this .
Oh so very much this. Deal through on Sat and we have 5 more years of this shitshow in #10.
OTOH, if it doesn't he is toast.
Corbyn, yes, has been intently paddling his canoe upstream away from what looks like the biggest open goal going, which would also be coincident with saving the country from being screwed over.
kelvin
You miss my point @Cougar… it may not be xenophobia at all… they might just dislike young people, noisy people, church bells, joggers, shell suits… I dunno… “culture” is such a wide term that more specifics are required. Many people currently hide behind the term when they’re really just racist… so when someone votes because of a fear of being isolated within a culture they don’t like… questions have to be asked. Find out what they mean. Don’t assume they’re racist… but if they aren’t, they need to articulate what they don’t like, not just keep saying “culture”.
it may not be xenophobia at all… they might just dislike young people, noisy people, church bells, joggers, shell suits…
That is "culture" and "fear or dislike of it" is xenophobia.
Don’t assume they’re racist… but if they aren’t, they need to articulate what they don’t like, not just keep saying “culture”.
You are making it very difficult.... re-read what you wrote.
"Don't assume but it's up to them to prove otherwise." (paraphrased) it seems to me like an assumption of guilt but then to extend the court analogy, in the meantime everytime they try and articulate they are being heckled with "racist", "mysogenist"... and to get a bit historical it seems a lot like a literal "witch hunt"
Corbyn is also a **** disgrace. He is going to sit on his hands whilst we are sold down the river.
And how exactly is he sitting on his hands? He's already declared his opposition and he'll whip his MPs to vote against it. What else do you want him to do?
moonsaballoon
Almost more depressing is if it does go through Boris is all of a sudden a Brexit hero for the 52% and would surely win a general election all because of a few labour rebel’s , what a mess Corbyn has made of all this .
Frankly that typifies WHY....
I'll take Boris or Corbyn for however long because it's reversible.
Other than leaving there is little Boris can do that can't be undone... it might be crap but the world will go on and things will be repaired for our children.
dazh
And how exactly is he sitting on his hands?
He's been sat on his hands since 2015... trying his best to use this to get elected.
which country would refuse it though?
It would be "countries" plural showing solidarity or a country that Boris managed to get on side.
Apparently a deal is done according to BBC.
If the Parliament agrees to the deal then the surrender treaty is signed.
Looks like Tories will be doomed in the next GE.
All these political elites need hammering ...
If the Parliament agrees to the deal
... if.
At this juncture, honestly whoTF knows. They kicked out May's "done deal" multiple times, but with a fortnight to B-day they might agree to this out of sheer desperation. I wouldn't like to bet good money either way, I expect it'll be close. Assuming it's not found to be illegal in the next two days, anyway.
What was that popular phrase a year or two back? Tick. Tock.
Analysis of the deal from CNN Business, worth reading. From same site,a break down of main differences from May's deal. Almost all are "not good" in my opinion...
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Warning, you won't sleep better on Saturday night if this goes through...
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/17/business/uk-economy-brexit-deal/index.html
Summary: More damaging than May's deal, huge increase in bureaucracy and we are going to be a much, much diminished county 10.years from now.
its going to fail,
it wont get approved,
EU wont give an extension so we will end up barrelling towards a no-deal.
Last minute revoke of article 50 will save the day.
In of not approved by parliament I'm hedging towards an extension and either a GE or referendum.
The EU have indicated an extension would be granted.... But who really knows? Chaos.
And how exactly is he sitting on his hands? He’s already declared his opposition and he’ll whip his MPs to vote against it. What else do you want him to do?
Do? Now? Oh, nothing, darling. What is the point after three years?
But, I mean, one really does want one’s ‘opposition’ to oppose, particularly when it is a Labour ‘opposition’ that is, in fact, delivering the working people of this country into the hands of a bunch of free-market, profiteering, short-termist spivs. Presumably in the vain hope that the lumpen proletariat will wake up after five years and deliver a socialist utopia via the ballot box, or somesuch shit that the Momentum six formers have imagined for themselves.
But carry on as you are. Deny that Kinnock and his clique are just running scared of their racist constituents. Deny that Corbyn wants the Brexit shock nearly as much as the disaster capitalists, only he is too doctrinally fixated and thick to realise that ‘his’ electorate have already been brainwashed by the Daily Mail and the Sun. Deny that Hoey and Field are just as xenophobic and racist as the Home Counties Himmlers, they just say ‘grass’ rather than ‘grarse’.
^^ Sadly, you do make a very good point.
Deny that Kinnock and his clique are just running scared of their racist constituents. Deny that Corbyn wants the Brexit shock nearly as much as the disaster capitalists, only he is too doctrinally fixated and thick to realise that ‘his’ electorate have already been brainwashed by the Daily Mail and the Sun.
I'll deny those things, you're talking bobbins.
The end result of Corbyns Disaster Socialism will feel exactly the same as Johnson’s Disaster Capitalism for the vast majority of us.
The only difference is that he hasn’t even got the excuse that him and his rich mates will make a fortune out of it.
It’s just down to plain old ideological, 70’s, retro, Bennite, 6th form level, placard-waving, anti-EU stupidity
I’ll deny those things, you’re talking bobbins.
So Momentum are a forward-looking, outward-looking and progressive clique are they?
Corbyn is not sentimental towards what he sees as the working class and believes they all have a heart of gold and have just been temporarily misled?
Labour MPs weren’t caught on the hop by the red-toothed racism/xenophobia that their constituents displayed at the first opportunity? They didn’t then decide to sacrifice (to a greater or lesser extent) their inclusive core principles to pander to those people?
Bollocks. They’ve tried to walk both sides of the street for so long now they wouldn’t know what a coherent policy was if it slapped them in the face. And if they did, they would dismiss it as an up to date version of ‘The Durham Miners will never wear it’ to hark back to a previous bout of Labour Insular vs Open cowardice when it comes to Europe.
I’ll take Boris or Corbyn for however long because it’s reversible.
Other than leaving there is little Boris can do that can’t be undone… it might be crap but the world will go on and things will be repaired for our children.
Yep stevextc I would go along with that , a friend of mine lives in the US and i always point out to him his nightmare will end at worst in 5 years , hopefully sooner . I feel like were being dragged of a cliff with no way back.
I’ll deny those things, you’re talking bobbins.
It's all down to Kinnock & co
Johnson's deal abandons legal commitment to workers rights & standards, supposedly a red line for Kinnock, not to mention he was elected in a manifesto that promised a Norway deal
If they vote for Johnson's deal they're full of shit
From the Guardian live news link a page or two back:
Here’s the full text of the prime minister’s speech:
This has been a very productive day for the UK in the sense that the European Council has approved the deal that has been negotiated over the last couple of months and I thank them very much again for their work.
I particularly thank Michel Barnier and his team, I thank Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the commission, for all the personal effort that he has put into getting this deal done.
I want to stress that this is a great deal for our country, for the UK. I also believe it’s a very good deal for our friends in the EU.
And what it means is that we in the UK can come out of the EU as one United Kingdom – England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, together. And it means we can decide our future together. We can take back control, as the phrase goes, of our money, our borders, our laws, together. And we will be able to do free trade agreements around the world.
And we can also build now, after three and a half years, on our relations with our friends and partners in the EU and it will be a very exciting period now, as it were, to get to the positive side of that project; the extraction having been done, the building now begins.
I am very confident that, when my colleagues in Parliament study this agreement, that they will want to vote for it on Saturday and then in succeeding days.
This is our chance in the UK as democrats to get Brexit done and come out on 31 October.
This is our chance to focus on our priorities, the people’s priorities: the NHS; putting 20,000 police on the streets; lifting up funding of education across the country; the biggest expansion of the living wage.
Those are the things I think the people of our country want us to be focusing on, in addition to Brexit.
We’ve been at this now, as I say, for three and a half years. It hasn’t always been an easy experience for the UK. It’s been long, it’s been painful, it’s been divisive. And now is the moment for us, as a country, to come together. Now is the moment for our parliamentarians to come together and get this thing done.
And, as I say, to begin building a new and progressive partnership with our EU friends, with whom of course we share so many priorities.
So yay, post-Brexit we'll be able to do all of those things that we could have done all along anyway. **** my old boots.
Dannyh, you and I want the same things.
I however appreciate that you can't expect the opposition to just jump to whatever you want. It's not just a case of 'Well I don't want that, so everyone else who doesn't want it must want what I want'.
Do you watch football matches and shout 'Shoot! SHOOT!' every time your team has the ball within 20 yards off goal because you like great goals?
Quick question as I'm lost in the noise...
If deal voted through and we did leave end of month.... Still a transition period till 2022??
14 month transition if (when) we can't nail.down all.the details before then possible extension
Random question, I'm not fully versed..
Is momentum in labour the same thing as the ERG in the tories, basically an extreme splinter faction?
Question Time is on. Let’s all try not to laugh while whatever Corbynite nodding dog gets the joy of trying to explain what Labours position is in less than ten minutes
BBC reporting that Labour MPs voting for the deal will not lose the whip - looks as if Corbyn wants Brexit out of the way.
Is momentum in labour the same thing as the ERG in the tories, basically an extreme splinter faction?
Nowhere near.
ERG are Tory MPs with a single focus (and separate funding I believe.)
Momentum are not MPs but are members of the Labour party. The EU is not their focus.
Why these to get conflated often I don't know.
Ronnie Campbell on Newsnight says he’s swapped to backing Johnson’s deal. Thinks lots of other Labour MPs will do so as well. When asked why, you could visibly see his brain cell twitching. Something about it getting the Europe issue out of the way 🤷🏻♂️.
Looks as if Corbyn wants Brexit out of the way
Always has. Since the day after the referendum when he did full-Corbyn-10-second-YouTube-clip that article 50 should be triggered immediately
No surprises there then?
He wanted it then, he wants it now and he’s done everything in his power to facilitate it in between
The 6th formers will no don’t be along shortly to tell us all how brilliant he is though
The greatest fraud in British political history? Or the most gullible party members in British political history?
Maybe plenty of both
Meanwhile Scotland is feeling the love...
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There's enough of this sort of stuff circulating that surely even the most loyal Scots Unionists are beginning to realise our real position in this "family" of nations.
But at least some southerners support our independence movement. 🙂
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Question Time is on. Let’s all try not to laugh while whatever Corbynite nodding dog gets the joy of trying to explain what Labours position is in less than ten minutes
I would hope things should take time to convey, simplicity is why we got here.
Kelvin - Ronnie Campbell was on radio 4 before. Just like Corbyn ... beamed straight in from the 1970’s
I have a horrible feeling him and his dinosaur Labour ilk will vote Boris’s deal through. If grandad hadn’t accidentally found himself as ‘leader’ (oh my aching sides) he’d have been voting with them, absolutely guaranteed
The greatest fraud in British political history? Or the most gullible party members in British political history?
I'm sure I read something like that on Guido Fawkes.
It’s both, isn’t it?
There’s enough of this sort of stuff circulating that surely even the most loyal Scots Unionists are beginning to realise our real position in this “family” of nations.
But at least some southerners support our independence movement
Please don't talk like that. As a Welsh who's lived in England since he was 3yo, I value the union, I want to preserve it. I've lived approximately 20 years in southern England and the same in Yorkshire.
We are all family, in the UK and the wider EU.
Let's look at this for what it is, a power grab by a bunch of rich toffs who have no ethics or morals.
I'd hate to see the UK break up, and I'd hate to see us leave the EU just to make a few rich people even more rich.
Bang on! If you want to declare a form of independence that will actually change anything then declare the south east of England an independent state. The rest of us have been and continue to be ****ed over by the privileged clique there.
Rid of them, and as part of the EU, I think the rest of us would do quite well out of policies that would benefit anyone else other than them. Which has been the overwhelming priority of government, which they’ve run, for ever. The rest of us barely fegister
Let’s look at this for what it is, a power grab by a bunch of rich toffs who have no ethics or morals.
Aye, one which the English electorate have been happy to support. Scotland, Scotland, don't go and leave us to govern ourselves. Please save us at the cost of your own economy, jobs and wellbeing.
**** that.
The rest of us have been and continue to be ****ed over by the privileged clique there.
I hope that London declares its independence from the rest of the Country so I don't have to put up with all those sour a**holes from other parts of the country such as yourself.
I hoped I've made a point about sweeping statements.
Please save us at the cost of your own economy, jobs and wellbeing.
Sunny Highlands...
binners
Subscriber
Bang on! If you want to declare a form of independence that will actually change anything then declare the south east of England an independent state. The rest of us have been and continue to be *ed over by the privileged clique there.
I live in the SE, in the Medway Towns. Many parts of the area around here are shall we say "under privileged" yet time after time Tory councillors and MP's are elected. I've come to the conclusion that the people who could possibly most benefit from getting rid of the Tories are so disenfranchised that they just don't vote.
It's by and large a Leave area too. I don't discuss my Remain views around here in public.
So, im about 20 something miles from London but I might as well be hundreds of miles away.
The South East isn't as simple as just London. Just as generalising everything north of Watford as "up north".
For what it's worth Binners, the clique you refer to * me off just as much as you believe me.
Not ranting at you mate, just want you to know that many of us down here feel just as alienated by the total ***** you refer to as you do.
The rest of us have been and continue to be *ed over by the privileged clique there.
What are you talking about, most of the rest voted for this right wing shit show! You’ll continue to get *ed over because you voted for it.
Bang on! If you want to declare a form of independence that will actually change anything then declare the south east of England an independent state.
London, which bankrolls your lifestyle, is predominantly Labour and Remain.
Apoligies for the sweeping generalisation. I'm know that there are plenty of deprived areas in the south east. But up here we were effectively cut adrift in the 80's with deindustrialisation and apart from Blair applying a sticking plaster with PFI-funded infrastructure investment, the government have never given us a second thought ever since.
Its a sign of how desperate and angry people are that they'll vote for 'anything', including Brexit in the misguided belief that 'well.... it can't get any worse'
Well its about too. A lot lot worse.
Whast beyond belief is when you listen to 70's throwback laboutr MP's like that half-wit from the North East who was interviewed on Newsnight who was saying he'll vote for Boris's deal as 'we just need to get Brexit done!'
WTF does he think a Tory government is going to do once released from the 'shackles of the EU'? Once the EU funding is gone?
Absolute idiots!!
London, which bankrolls your lifestyle, is predominantly Labour and Remain.
Maybe we should just doff our caps to our superiors for 'bankrolling our lifestyle' and shut up then, eh?
All the northern cities are labour and remain too. So what? The labour leadership that are meant to represent their views are more aligned with our 'just get on with it' friend in the North East. Red unicorns.
Its a sign of how desperate and angry people are that they’ll vote for ‘anything’, including Brexit in the misguided belief that ‘well…. it can’t get any worse’
It is more a sign of low intelligence and inability to think for themselves or doing even 10 minutes of research and thinking into why they are in the position they are in.
I don't blame them, not everyone is clever enough to work it out. The fault lies with the Tory party convincing them that voting Tory is right or nowadays that voting Brexit is right (helped along by propaganda from the media)
Maybe we should just doff our caps to our superiors for ‘bankrolling our lifestyle’ and shut up then, eh?
Nope, but the north of England leaving the South is not one of your better ideas. And you thought the impact of Brexit was bad...
I wasn’t entirely serious about that 😉
This country badly needs its economy re-balancing, though.
And that’s whats going to happen post-Brexit. The inequality we see now is about to be turbo-charged.
And the Labour Party in its present shambolic state is so effing useless it can’t even point out this glaringly obvious fact.
I am English but have lived in Glasgow for 20 years now , I voted no last time for similar reasons to voting to remain in the eu . I still think the reasons for independence are more emotional than logical but I do feel like what I thought England / uk was has kind of left me behind and if the option to vote again came up while boris is in power with a proper majority and the likelihood of a torie government for the foreseeable i would definitely be tempted to think what have we got to lose .
But up here we were effectively cut adrift in the 80’s with deindustrialisation
Just point of note, de-industrialisation in the UK has been happening since around 1870*, what with global changes to all sorts of everything. For the North that was never going to end well.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deindustrialisation_by_country#United_Kingdom
This country badly needs its economy re-balancing, though.
And yet you dismiss the people promising to do exactly this as sixth formers transported from the 70s?
binners idea of re-balancing the economy may differ slightly from Grampy Jezza's.
Maybe we should just doff our caps to our superiors for ‘bankrolling our lifestyle’ and shut up then, eh?
Or you could carry on advocating a course of action that would make the things you claim to care about far worse. Akin to voting Lib Dem in a Lab/ Con marginal I suppose, so you have form.
The UK . . . 🙁
Just listening to another 70’s throwback Labour MP on the today programme saying ‘let’s get it done’ in respect to the deal.
He actually said - and this is a direct quote - “on workers rights, I don’t trust the EU any more than I trust the Tory’s”
Seriously? WTF?
Looks like, now the message has gone out from the ‘leadership’ that there will be no serious repercussions to doing so, a lot of the dinosaur Corbynite wing of the Labour Party will be voting with the government tomorrow
Or you could carry on advocating a course of action that would make the things you claim to care about far worse. Akin to voting Lib Dem in a Lab/ Con marginal I suppose, so you have form.
I've said repeatedly on this thread that at a general election I would vote labour, as I live in an ultra-marginal seat and my (non-corbynite/Blairite scum) Labour MP is a thoroughly decent bloke and a great constituency MP, and I ****ing loath the Tory's
I voted Lib Dem (for the first time, after a lifetime voting labour) at the EU elections because it is a PR electoral system and I couldn't vote for a Brexit supporting party
Carry on ignoring that if you like, as part of the Corbynite charm offensive that's winning over so many voters 😉
There's certainly a few labour MPs saying they'll probably back Johnson's deal
Even though, it specifically removes legal guarantee on workers rights, standards & environmental protections
And is the rights wet dream of a hard Brexit that would hurt manufacturing industries the hardest, short of no deal.
While polling shows that Johnson getting this deal through would give him a huge boost in the GE, possible landslide territory.
I can't believe that Corbyn wouldn't expell any MP that helped gift that to Johnson and the hard right
There’s certainly a few labour MPs saying they’ll probably back Johnson’s deal
Hardly a surprise. They've never hidden the fact they want out, or that the labour voters in their constituencies want out.
I can’t believe that Corbyn wouldn’t expell any MP that helped gift that to Johnson and the hard right
Corbyn's primary motivation is to hold his party together. Expelling 20-30 MPs doesn't help him or the party. Labour were always going to allow a de-facto free vote on brexit as the alternative is splitting the party. It's obviously bad if you're a remainer, but these have always been the cold facts. It's not a surprise that many in labour want brexit out of the way so they can start to rebuild.
It’s obviously bad if you’re a remainer, but these have always been the cold facts. It’s not a surprise that many in labour want brexit out of the way so they can start to rebuild.
It's also bad if you're a labour supporter
Clinging onto 20-30 labour MPs whilst losing 50+ in a GE is daft.
It gifts Johnson a majority and 5 more years in power while committing us to a decade of divisive negotiations over the future relationship while Johnson gets free reign to lock us in to a free markerteers wet dream of a trade deal with USA.
If labour MPs are naive enough to think this is good for them they are deluded
There’s enough of this sort of stuff circulating that surely even the most loyal Scots Unionists are beginning to realise our real position in this “family” of nations.
But at least some southerners support our independence movement. 🙂
You have found some idiots on the internet. It's not difficult to mine them!
It would be a mistake to take their opinion as the opinion of the rest of the UK or the England.
It may help Stoke devision and therefore help your personal aim but please don't premote things that some idiots said as the opinion of an entire country. It's this kind of misinformation and minipulation that caused this Brexit mess in The first place.
John Mann will. My MP but good riddance as he's standing down anyway.
Probably will lose to Brexit P.
Yeah rebalancing the economy Binners ... Is exactly what Labour would do.
You won't get that with Rory Stewart or Swindleson.
I voted Lib Dem (for the first time, after a lifetime voting labour) at the EU elections because it is a PR electoral system and I couldn’t vote for a Brexit supporting party
No, you voted for a party who can say anything it likes because it won't get into power.
I can’t believe that Corbyn wouldn’t expell any MP that helped gift that to Johnson and the hard right
But equally Bojo was given a hard time when he did the same for his pro-EUers.
And some of them will be gone anyway - such as John Mann.
It’s not a surprise that many in labour want brexit out of the way so they can start to rebuild
How are they going to rebuild anything when they won't see power again for a decade at least? And when they are under a Tory government of a bankrupt country?
It’s not a surprise that many in labour want brexit out of the way so they can start to rebuild.
“Out of the way” !!!!!!!
No, you voted for a party who can say anything it likes because it won’t get into power.
I thought he voted Lib-Dem, not Labour....
I can’t believe that Corbyn wouldn’t expell any MP that helped gift that to Johnson and the hard right
After all, he'd be voting with them if he hadn't accidentally become leader
Anyway, here's the FT analysis of the vote tomorrow. Too close to call...
