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Does anyone else think its time she started naming to the “source in number 10” …
I think the time has come to name no10 sources, or refuse to let them set the agenda. All this throwing of shade and misinformation, followed by plausible deniability from the PM and other no10 sources, shouldn’t be enabled by the BBC, no.
its pretty clear that one is cummings.
That's fairly obvious. There is absolutely nothing coming out of number 10 that hasn't been approved by him. If it's making it into the public domain then its because he wants it out there.
They know the full impact of yesterdays decision, they know there's not much they can do about it, so they're fuelling their 'enemies of the people' narrative
It is a very, very dangerous game to be playing, but unfortunately fairly typical to their casual disregard for all previous conventions and their flippant attitude to the potential consequences
I wonder if kuenssberg's source is de pfedfel himself and it's all pillow talk.
(Yes, yes, we all know it's really Cummings, but think of the drama....)
He'll back in country soon and she can stroke his knee in a sympathetic fashion.
I realise it's a convention to say "source", but "Number 10" is the government. They've just been handed their arse by the judiciary and told that effectively they tried to take power which was not theirs to take from parliament (a "constitutional coup" as some might put it).
Popping up anonymously via the BBC and accusing the court of bias and political interference should have consequences.
EDIT for clarity, As binners said, this is a dangerous game, and they shouldn't be allowed to play it anonymously with the aid of the press while we're paying for it.
PS, probably not the best place to ask, but can JRM (or boris) get the heave-ho from the privy council?
It obviously wouldn't bring an end to all of this but it would blunt the haunted pencil in a very satisfying way.
I see even the man-toad believes the 31st is now unworkable and a GE will be forthcoming during the extension period.
Ms Joanne Cherry isn't saying anything:
"Generally speaking we're not supposed to say specifically in advance what we've lodged an urgent question on," the SNP's justice spokeswoman, Joanna Cherry QC told Sky News.
"But I would be very surprised if there aren't urgent questions about the nature of the legal advice that was given to Boris Johnson about the proroguing of parliament.
"And in addition to questions about Brexit there will also probably be questions about the collapse of Thomas Cook and questions about Liz Truss's unlawful activity in flouting the law against arms sales to Saudi Arabia."
Addendum:
I see that "vox pop" reporting (A.K.A. "triple A reporting" or "Ask Any Asshole") is also getting a kicking this morning on twitter.
Maybe its time to call time on that pish as well.
Exception for the French reporter who got David Allen Green (constitutional law expert) yesterday by accident 🙂
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1176533793194303490
Maybe its time to call time on that pish as well.
Yeah, we must have surely got to the point where every leave voter in Stoke (the constituency with the highest leave vote in the country, which we apparently need re-telling 19 times a day) has been on telly being asked their opinion on Brexit for at least the 900th time
I blame Michael Gove
It gets betterer (just saw this):
Joanna Cherry QC MP and her team have not finished with Johnson yet.
They have a further Court Case coming up - namely if Johnson chooses to ignore the law and refuses to ask for Extension to Article 50 if he comes home on 18 October with No Deal - that the Scottish Courts can sign it on his behalf and present it to the EU as the legal stance of the UK Government!
Bear in mind Scots law applies.
The SNP are trying very hard to encourage Boris to boot Scotland out of the Union IMO.
The illegal has landed....
He looks a bit lonely on those stairs...
So on the back of the high court ruling that the prorogation was illegal and hence null and void, does this cancel the Queens speech?
Yes it does.
Attorney General Geoffrey Cox is on his feet in a parliament defending his legal advice and Johnsons Prorogation.
I've never heard pompous, blustering bullshit like it.
Ta, strange because I’m sure I saw on the BBC a calendar with it still there.
Geoffrey Cox is a symbol of all that is wrong with this country. To quote Little Britain " what he needs is a big b***k cock up his @rse"
I’ve never heard pompous, blustering bullshit like it.
Yes he appeared quite reasonable to start with but then went full on bluster calling the opposition cowards for failing to submit a VONC or agree to a GE, clearly referencing the political game playing of no GE until an Extension is agreed. Seemingly ignoring the government's political gameplay of proroguing parliament to ensure a no-deal exit could occur without further scrutiny. "Sauce for the goose" springs to mind.
Oh he did state definitely that he Benn bill will be complied with. So what's the next Tory move?
Corbyn is now in favour of FOM .
Does that give us access to the single market?
Ta, strange because I’m sure I saw on the BBC a calendar with it still there
Cancelled with immediate effect.
Tory conference is coming up though so maybe that's what you read?
Corbyn is now in favour of FOM.
Where did you hear that? There were attempts to get it agreed to as policy at conference, but it kept going missing.
Does that give us access to the single market?
It’s required yes, and has lots of other (positive) knock on effects as regards replacement EEA type arrangements after we are no longer EU members.
Labour conference was in favour of almost every other SNP policy that they've previously opposed so it wouldn't surprise me if they've adopted that too.
If we have to leave ,as long as we are in the single market and have freedom of movement I can live with that.
Tory conference is coming up though so maybe that’s what you read?
I think I read parliament will have to vote on a recess for the Tory conference. Could get amusing.
.
If we have to leave ,as long as we are in the single market and have freedom of movement I can live with that.
If Labour can move to EEA style Brexit vs Membership as referendum questions… well, that would be lovely.
scotroutes
Member
Labour conference was in favour of almost every other SNP policy that they’ve previously opposed so it wouldn’t surprise me if they’ve adopted that too.
This is hilarious. For so long anything the SNP wanted to do in holyrood was immediately opposed by scottish labour ( the Bain principle) It did give rise to ludicrous situations where SNP and english labour had identical policies but scottish labour opposed them in holyrood.
Now it looks like a bunch more of policies the SNP promote or indeed have enacted become english labour policy. I wonder in scottish labour will still oppose.
The realjoke / irritation in all this is actually as modern social democratic parties there is very little between the SNP and labour on policy matters and philosophy but labour have never forgiven the SNP for taking power and have been obstructionist and hypocritical in holyrood - and the electorate have seen this and punished them for it
Oh yeah, that’s why, literally nobody was talking about east Asia. Nice try but no dice.
Interesting to see that only one being Asian is now two being east Asian. Its almost like you’re just saying any old bollocks that comes into your head
How many countries in the Middle East are considered to be part of the Spanish/Portuguese or French Empires? The answer is none for the first two and only one for the latter. So yes, when we are talking about the influence of Catholic empire on Asia - we are very much talking about east Asia.
Stop playing the man - I’m open to hearing any counter argument of yours.
If Labour can move to EEA style Brexit vs Membership as referendum questions… well, that would be lovely.
Thats been the position for ages. renegotiate without mays red lines then put the outcome to a referendum
Its still stupid mind you IMO but its one position that just might bring the country back together - BINO. Keep the leavers happyish and also the remainers.
Rayban - yo were clearly wrong on both the asian geography and the english exceptionalism - and the discussion has moved on. Learn from my mistakes and drop it
Thats been the position for ages. renegotiate without mays red lines then put the outcome to a referendum
While that may be sort-of true in a typically vague Cobynite fudgy fashion, they always still maintained that ending freedom of movement was one of their red lines that was the same as Mays. It clearly, unambiguously stated it as official policy on their website
Ending freedom of movement was the one aspect of labour Brexit policy (such as it is) that I found the most mystifying. And let's face it, the whole thing has always been a confusing mess, but this one aspect never made any sense
If we have to leave ,as long as we are in the single market and have freedom of movement I can live with that.
I'd agree with that too. I suspect getting that through parliament may be a challenge though.
Thats been the position for ages.
No, it hasn’t. Three line whips against it, and stated policy has been to end freedom of movement. I’m really excited to see how todays vote gets reflected in Labour Brexit policy (and immigration policy more generally). If the Brexit option for a referendum includes FoM and Single Market, not just Customs alignment, then it really could get mainstream support at the upcoming election.
Rayban – yo were clearly wrong on both the asian geography and the english exceptionalism – and the discussion has moved on. Learn from my mistakes and drop it
So you are denying that the Spanish/Catholic system imposed on certain countries produced a different outcome for those subjected to it - in comparison to those that weren’t?
Thats been the position for ages.
That being the case, why the move at conference?
It is still listed on their website as official policy Uncle Jezza
Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union. Britain’s immigration system will change, but Labour will not scapegoat migrants nor blame them for economic failures.
Fairy unambiguous, that
and stated policy has been to end freedom of movement.
NOt by my understanding - the only thing I have seen is " once we leave the EU freedom of movement will end" which is a statement of fact not a negotiating aim.
So can you quote where labour policy has been to ensure freedom of movement ends? all I have seen is renegotiate without mays red lines which is what gets called red unicorns by Binners et al
Scotroutes - clarity?
This has all been done TJ. Go back in the thread and have a look. IIRC it was all in replies to you then.
Anyway, welcome news today from the Labour conference. Good to finish on such a positive note. And not just for Brexit reasons.
which is what gets called red unicorns by Binners et al
We've been over this countless times. The rules and freedoms of EU membership are indivisible. You can't cherrypick. It's that simple
So you can't end freedom of movement - which is stated Labour policy - but retain access to the single market and the customs union
Hence - Red Unicorns
Let's not do this again please, eh?
Let's just agree that if labour policy has changed re: freedom of movement, then Jeremy's policy is looking less unicorn-based and may be starting to address reality, which is certainly progress
which is stated Labour policy
Not for long!
😻
Geoffrey Cox showboating in parliament is funny
but hes looking like a fool
gave bad advice to Johnson
AND voted for the fixed term parliament act, he now hates
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/divisions/pw-2011-01-18-175-commons/mp/11541
I still want to see where it is started labour policy to end freedom of movement rather than an acceptance of fact if we leave the EU - because nowhere at no time have I seen " laboutr policy is to end freedom of movement" The nearest I have seen is ( to paraphrase) we need to control unfettered freedom of movement - which of course is possible while remaining in the SM and CU
But yes - its old ground.
Let's not do it again. The fact that it's open to different interpretations says it all about labours 'constructive ambiguity' policy
Let's hope this is an end to that
TJ - mr evidence man...
Pages 11 and 15 to 16. Protestant countries are less corrupt than catholic countries, Asian ethnorelgions are less corrupt than both (to make this clear - the authors are talking about East Asian religions - not Middle Eastern ones).
ftp://ftp.econ.au.dk/afn/wp/99/wp99_21.pdf
Tribal religions associated with less corruption than Catholicism.
Access to the single market wil have a cost. Try explaining that to the Labour base. I don't see what Norway pays per capita scaled up to the British population being acceptable to JC or his party.
Rayban - give up my man - don't be me part 2 😉
On Cox being a cock today:
https://twitter.com/alison_mcgovern/status/1176828037876396032?s=21
The anti-parliament (and anti-MP) rhetoric will ramp up big time over the next few weeks. Worrying times.
Irony, Boris Bus manufacturer goes into administration, Struggling Wrightbus, whose co-founder Sir William Wright is a prominent Brexit supporter, has been trying to attract a new owner or investment but failed.
That the Tory party stuffed with Eton and Oxbridge multimillionaires is setting itself us as 'The People' against 'The Establishment' is absolutely laughable. They couldn't possibly be more 'establishment'.
So the fact that this is actually cutting through as a narrative shows how far our society has been corroded by Brexit and this toxic English Nationalism it has unleashed.
I fear that as they set about creating 'enemies of the people' by undermining pillars of our society such as the judiciary, the next Jo Cox incident is a case of when, not if
And they don't even care!
That the Tory party ..............................
.....................And they don’t even care
You don't become a member of the tory party and especially not a Tory MP if you care about anything but yourself and your 'kind'
A reminder that Conservative MPs (well people elected as Conservative MPs) are also on the receiving end, both of death threats from dangerous radicalised people, and the “enemy” rhetoric aimed at anyone not blinding following the path set by people working both within and outside the Conservative party towards a “reformed” and “independent” UK.
binners,
Exactly, they are saying one thing in public and briefing another in private, and the BBC is passing on the subversive "judiciary messing with politics" message unvarnished from anonymous "sources".
Its the definition of a forked tongue, and if Cox is acting as reported then they haven't learned anything in the last few days.
In any other country this kind of rhetoric would qualify you for free clown shoes and a red nose at the UN.
To see it in my own is genuinely frightening.
I used to think that 10% of people would fall for anything shouted loudly enough (flat earth, moon landing conspiracy etc)), but when populism and nationalism take the gloves off, it looks more like 30 to 40% of the population will wander blindly down the road to dictatorship to avoid thinking for themselves.
I'm off to buy some gold and a flagpole to use as a disguise.
I find it terrifying that they're prepared to play games like this, so flippantly.
If the whole case of Jo Cox showed anything it's that once you let this kind of sentiment out of the box, or in this case, deliberately stoke it up, it doesn't take much before elements of it become impossible to contain.
Obviously, that doesn't bother them as they're insulated from everything by their wealth and power but this could have very far-reaching and corrosive consequences in all kinds of areas of our national life.
The mood is this country has already been turned toxic by Brexit and the nationalism, racism and intolerance its legitimised, but if they continue don't this road, which they're clearly intent on doing, things could get a lot, lot worse
That the Tory party stuffed with Eton and Oxbridge multimillionaires is setting itself us as ‘The People’ against ‘The Establishment’ is absolutely laughable. They couldn’t possibly be more ‘establishment’.
A bit like voting for a rich from birth white male president being anti-establishment?
Rayban – give up my man – don’t be me part 2 😉
😀 fair enough TJ.
That gave me a good chuckle.
🙂
A bit like voting for a rich from birth white male president being anti-establishment?
Pretty much.
I used to think that 10% of people would fall for anything shouted loudly enough (flat earth, moon landing conspiracy etc)), but when populism and nationalism take the gloves off, it looks more like 30 to 40% of the population will wander blindly down the road to dictatorship to avoid thinking for themselves.
Offer a tribe to join.
Fling in some fear/uncertainty/doubt with respect to the opposing tribe.
Or as some Austrian despot put it, "what luck for leaders that men do not think".
It is depressingly simple, looking at the Leave campaign in hindsight.
And now, it seems to have turned into a kind of death cult affecting a massive part of the population.
It occurs to me that this might be exactly why critical thinking never makes it onto any education syllabus.
If it did the population might start spotting what the twunticles at the top are up to.
Anyway, welcome news today from the Labour conference. Good to finish on such a positive note.
Nice to see but doesn't necessarily mean it will be in the manifesto come the GE.
Don’t harsh my buzz man!
Struggling Wrightbus, whose co-founder Sir William Wright is a prominent Brexit supporter, has been trying to attract a new owner or investment but failed.
And in the meantime the company pissed millions away on a dodgy Religion. Is that the fault of Brexit?
Cox was brilliant. Barking out his put downs in sonorous style. He made the foaming labour chump Sheerman in the horrible suit look as silly as his outfit.
"was there a question in the marshmallow of rhetoric?" No there wasn't.
Well, he made sure he got his key word heard, “COWARDLY!”
Again, and again.
Yeah, we get the game, try and bait the opposition parties to call an election WITHOUT an A50 extension… but perhaps they aren’t (collectively) as stupid as the arrogant no10 team have been banking on.
Cox was brilliant.
No he wasn't, he wasn't brilliant by any intelligent account of his responses to questions. And to suggest otherwise is .............
Cox was brilliant.
👍 😀
Let's have a GE.
Cox was brilliant.
Ahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa!
The Labour MP made himself look a chump too, by rising to the baiting (which is all Cox has got now, his credibility is shot).
A far better response would have been:
“While I respect sir Geoffrey’s opinion, can I please remind the house what tends to happen when the attorney general’s opinion or advice, be it professional or otherwise, is followed..... I think we can safely ignore that”.
Cox is a blustering twunt who has probably been offered some kind of aftercare by Johnson now his professional credibility is in tatters, so long as he goes full gammon, of course. He really has nowhere to go when Poundshop Trump gets the heave ho. Lovely job. Brexit is great for outing prats. Everyone who gets behind it for doctrinal reasons ends up looking stupid, because.......
I’m off to buy ... a flagpole to use as a disguise.
You should send one to the Commons for JRM to hide behind.
Johnson really has absolutely no care for the truth.
I know that isnt a surprise given he was sacked twice for being a lying bastard but even so it would have been nice for him to grow into his suspicion.
I do think Barry Sherman expresses what a lot of us are feeling about a government that thinks it’s above the law and can just do what the hell it likes
Binners, i agree but there is a large % of people that will be in uproar as he is now just an "enemy of the people".
Sad, worrying times mate.
At the risk of invoking Godwin’s Law, if you haven’t already watched it, then it’s worth viewing the recent 3 parter ‘The Rise of the Nazi’s’ on iPlayer
The analysis of how they were approaching stuff and manipulating things in the late 20’s and early 30’s will have a horribly familiar ring to it. The first thing they did was suspend the parliament, then set about undermining the judiciary.
The terminology they used will sound familiar too.
Populist nationalism is always the same. How far its allowed to get differs, but they all use the same playbook, and Trump and now Johnson are just following a well-worn blueprint
I am not sure why he is allowed to keep dribbling out "surrender act" and "betrayal" and people arent allowed to state that he is a liar.
Its beyond dispute that he is so its a simple statement of fact.
Binners my wife and I exactly those thoughts watching that series. Thankfully our courts seem to have a bit more independence than those of 30s Germany.
The appalling language coming out of Boris camp really needs addressing.
Joke of the day “the government prorogued parliament in good faith” - Geoffrey Cox
Erm, a recent Supreme Court ruling suggested otherwise mate 😁
You should send one to the Commons for JRM to hide behind.
Or for Johnson the liar to use for pole dancing. After all his previous one not be available.
Cox was brilliant.
Are you shitting me?
I would love to know what her hourly rate worked out as . 4 figures an hour to 'work' with BJ abroad , as a trade ambassador (to Mr Roché)
If we get a GE what will be the outcome? I cant see any Gammoners backing down , so they will vote the same . Some new voters will jump on the Lib Deb lifeboat . Then surely JC sitting on the fence with no definative policy and splinters in his pants will drop a few seats
This will leave us with another hung Parliment, possibly. UKIP gaining a few , Lib Dems gaining a few , Greens probably drop to zero
290 Tory , 250 Labour, 30 ish Lib Dems , 30ish SNP , few Greens, few U kippers.
Which will mean no way forward
Alot depends on if people can disasociate Brexit from party policy and other matters
I truely beleive that in the past people have 'bottled it' in the last seconds before voting. They intend to vote one way , then go' Actually , do you know what , I'm happy with the status quo ( not In the Army Now , but the rest are great ), I have a job, went abroad for 2 weeks on holiday , I am keeping up with the mtg , my PCP car makes me feel smug whilst sat in traffic jams, so lets not rock that particular boat and my head will be firmly in the sand and i am voting Tory again. Especialy if its sunny.
Can we vote for the judges in the Supreme Court?
Are they elected by the people?
Does the Supreme Court rule over the Parliament? 😄
Why are the Supreme Court intervening in a political process?
If PM BoJo ignores the Supreme Court ruling (let's assume) can he be sent to the tower or is the Supreme Court toothless if the PM refuses to comply? 🤔
What we are seeing now is the UK Parliament at odds with the population. Let's see now long this will last ... the Parliament sovereign or the people who lend them the power.
Let's have a GE.
There is no depth to which he will not sink. Even the Spectator are turning on him...
https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/1176950278807064578?s=19