Forum menu
The Procedures / rules have triumphed over the Referendum result / the people’s will. 😄
The logic (procedures) does not stack up to the end goal (Referendum
Chewkw, you do realise don’t you - that all the shittest Asian ex colonies are Spanish or Portuguese - where there is little rule of law and corruption is endemic because their colonists were as well. Where as the British and parliamentary concept of the rule of law is partly why places like Singapore are light years ahead of them.
You and every other gammon in this country should be celebrating this as this is historically what had once set us apart from the Southern European democracies.
Precisely. Yes, rules are rules.
But that is also exactly where the problem is.
I disagree, the problem was not actually having rules about a referendum in the first place.
the rules were then broken as to funding...
This is what dogs a new referendum....at the time it was Leave/Remain/Leave with the amazing deal
Plenty of people who voted remain did so because they never believed the deal would be anything like we had already... very few (I know of) said at the time they were voting for a no-deal (though at the time that was my 2nd option after remain)
Even if we have a Leave/Remain/Accept a deal its pre-poisioned by whoever gets the deal.... even amongst the FIRM leavers ... if Boris by some miracle gets a fantastic deal it will be Boris's deal... Corbyn's deal... May's deal with/without something.
Our own lack of rules on having a referendum on what turns out to be impossible to deliver was the start of this.
You lost, get over it
Hope gammons hear that plenty more times
🤔
Plenty of people who voted remain did so because they never believed the deal would be anything like we had already… very few (I know of) said at the time they were voting for a no-deal (though at the time that was my 2nd option after remain)
My father who kept badgering me for years about "the people's vote", voted UKIP, and always whined about the EU whether anyone was listening or not, said a no-deal brexit would never happen when he heard my step-brother (who also voted leave) was worrying about his business with a no-deal brexit. In fact he's now changed his tune and said we need to remain and get more Farage-like MEPs.
Chewkw, you do realise don’t you – that all the shittest Asian ex colonies are Spanish or Portuguese – where there is little rule of law and corruption is endemic because their colonists were as well. Where as the British and parliamentary concept of the rule of law is partly why places like Singapore are light years ahead of them.
Good observation there. Me think apart from the British and Dutch (brutal) who were good at admin, the rest were just there as "cowboys". Yes, rules of law all that ... won't go into that now.
Yes, Singapore might be light years ahead but they don't have land and the people are stressed.
You and every other gammon in this country should be celebrating this as this is historically what had once set us apart from the Southern European democracies.
There are now in EU and they are more of them. 😀
BoardinBob
Subscriber
Leave means leave
Well how else are we going to break free?
Well how else are we going to break free?
I can't believe she stopped him then. He was having such a good time...
He’s just a poor boy...
Kier Starmer on whether labour will vote for a recess for the tory conference: "no, why on earth would we?"
Aaaaahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa
My father who kept badgering me for years about “the people’s vote”, voted UKIP, and always whined about the EU whether anyone was listening or not, said a no-deal brexit would never happen when he heard my step-brother (who also voted leave) was worrying about his business with a no-deal brexit. In fact he’s now changed his tune and said we need to remain and get more Farage-like MEPs.
Fair enough.... most of the ones I know are claiming they were voting for a no-deal all along ... including the ones saying "a no deal will never happen" however I think the real point is very few people voted for a no-deal Brexit and because we didn't ASK ... it's now "the will of the people"
Had to laugh at Cougar's post of the tweet... because the same people telling me 2 weeks ago that prorogation had nothing to do with Brexit are up in arms at the Supreme court's ruling and how it is to stop Brexit.
The whole thing is surreal.... because a lot of them aren't totally thick... AND I believe a lot of them actually believe this DESPITE when it's pointed out what they said.
It's like a whole portion of the country suddenly developed the same self delusional relationship to truth as Boris...
"You wrote/said this at the time"
"No I didn't"
"This is a screenshot"
"I didn't mean that/you photoshoped it/someone hacked my account/aliens stole my homework"
Does anyone think this has changed anyone's mind?
I mean was there a large cohort of reluctant leavers who today now think the BoJo has went too far and they would now back remain?
Or is everyone pretty much of the same position as the were yesterday?
Where as the British and parliamentary concept of the rule of law is partly why places like Singapore are light years ahead of them.
cough cough Afghanistan cough Zimbabwe cough Bahrain cough Brunei cough Egypt cough Iraq cough Kuwait cough Libya cough Myanmar cough United States (joke) (or is it)
Or is everyone pretty much of the same position as the were yesterday?
Pretty sure the Queen is going to vote LibDem now.
Or is everyone pretty much of the same position as the were yesterday?
Pretty much the same from day one for me.
cough cough Afghanistan cough Zimbabwe cough Bahrain cough Brunei cough Egypt cough Iraq cough Kuwait cough Libya cough Myanmar cough United States (joke) (or is it)
Most of those aren't Asian though.
Pretty much the same from day one for me.
Except Boris must ask for an extension if he can't get a deal through Parly, and Parly have explicitly ruled out 'no deal'.
So in reality we'll have an extension until March, or BloJO will be held in contempt over prorouging Parlyand unseated, parhaps via a VONC or a GE.
Theres also another a contempt hearing waiting in the wings on another subject - failure to release the full Yellohammer documents. remeber that? seems like years ago now...
We're gonna need a bigger flow chart!
Does anyone think this has changed anyone’s mind
Visited my folks yesterday, both leavers, they had a copy of the lib dems paper on their table.
I went full gammon about the WTO. My dad doesn't like the WTO now.
My mum will still vote for dumbojo as she is still a **** wit.
biggest threat to a functioning democracy
Forcing a damaging Brexit on the UK, by bypassing Parliament, at a time when the majority of people in the UK don’t want Brexit to happen, all because of a vote three years ago that millions of adults in the UK were not able to take part in… that’s the biggest threat to a functioning democracy.
So in reality we’ll have an extension until March
If the EU can be bothered
In fact he’s now changed his tune and said we need to remain and get more Farage-like MEPs.
Lazy arseholes who cant be arsed turning up to the parliament longer than it takes to claim expenses or give some speech for youtube? Someone who claims to be standing up for fishermen and yet barely bothered attending the fisheries committee.
Wanting to leave makes more sense than that.
Except Boris must ask for an extension if he can’t get a deal through Parly, and Parly have explicitly ruled out ‘no deal’.
He will not get it through Parliament because JC has already got a whiff of the power. It will be silly for JC not to go through with his plan to become the "interim" PM. Once JC is in power he will prolong as long as possible for the next GE. The question is whether Boris will go and this all depends on his mood.
More entertainment to come ... 😀
What I love about today is the leader of the highest court in the land has delivered a verdict about out most senior politician's conduct in relation to both the parliament and the head of the state and church, in front of the world's press, whilst wearing a massive golden tarantula.
while wearing a massive golden tarantula.
Hail Hydra!
frikkin fantastic
Looks like Geoffrey Cox will be the scapegoat as detailed in the “leaked” document
If the EU can be bothered
It's in their interests to keep giving us rope. If we just keep floundering around it makes us look weak and unstable, and as a future competitor that makes the EU look great for future investment. Or, if we eventually revoke or hold a 2nd ref, we end up remaining and that's also good both practically and in terms of image.
There's no angle from which the EU can be considered to lose here, that I can see.
I went full gammon about the WTO.
I'm unsure what this means.
Did you wave a Daily Hail around whist shouting loudly about how the WTO is actually democracy, a dictator and also a bus made out of cardboard at the same time?
I’m unsure what this means.
Ranting (rightfully) about unelected foreign bureaucrats in Geneva forcing us Brits to apply tariffs to our goods even if we don't want them.
Then mentioning that there were no Swiss pilots in the battle of britain etc.
Chewkw, you do realise don’t you...
The killfile. It’s a remarkably effective means of removing nonsensical posts from your forum feed.
There’s no point in engagement, you’ll be dragged into spiralling absurdity and selective poor grammar.
Anyway, back to the subject in hand.
Anyone else notice just *how much* language has changed in three years? No one even bothers to dress up Brexit anymore, people have been told that they want it, without any understanding of what it entails. I’m regularly lectured about “Parliamentary Sovereignty” on Twitter by people who have no idea what that means.
Our own lack of rules on having a referendum on what turns out to be impossible to deliver was the start of this.
That's not right. We have plenty of rules on having a referendum, it's actually very well documented. The problem is that a certain group of people have sought to rewrite / ignore these rules post-referendum depending on whether it suits their agenda or not. They're quite happy for it to be viewed as advisory when it's being scrutinised in court, yet it's the will of the people and absolutely must be obeyed otherwise it's the death of democracy at most other times. Shrodinger's Referendum.
I’m regularly lectured about “Parliamentary Sovereignty” on Twitter by people who have no idea what that means.
They should be overjoyed with today's result, then.
So Johnson is still not ruling out another suspension, which might actually be the plan, since he's referring to 31st October being the legal default leave date.
Can he do that without going to the Queen? I suspect she may take a dim view of being asked again....
Cut off one head, two more will take its place!
Not sure whether that applies to the Gina Miller Brigade or JRM............
Can he do that without going to the Queen? I suspect she may take a dim view of being asked again….
Given the ruling today, I can't see how she could grant a request by him if he made it again, without it also being authorised by parliament.
The first request would have been seen as an abuse of her power had she refused, if he tries again under the same circumstances it would be an abuse to grant the request.
I would find it amusing if the only lasting result of the whole brexit cluster **** was the UK becoming a republic.
I’m regularly lectured about “Parliamentary Sovereignty” on Twitter by people who have no idea what that means.
Just mention SO24 and the Supreme Court, that about covers it.
I'm sure the grown ups will appear any minute now
Does anyone think this has changed anyone’s mind?
I mean was there a large cohort of reluctant leavers who today now think the BoJo has went too far and they would now back remain?
Or is everyone pretty much of the same position as the were yesterday?
Most people think Johnson is wrong
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1176503707741097985
Perfect.
joy
I believe the Queen has summonsed Johnson.
This could get interesting. We need a fly on the wall...
I believe the Queen has summonsed Johnson
Palace or Tower?
Top work by the bloke with the placards behind Huw on BBC 1 news
Palace or Tower?
A ditch near Balmoral
I cannot see a way out for Johnson now. What is his play? Bluff called, flush busted. What can he do.
Anyone?
He's to arrogant to back down
How only option is to go full trump
Also there's this
https://twitter.com/trevorw1953/status/1176595727516090370
What can he do.
Not sure what he can do but as Kimbers says wont back down. So he is going to put down the spade and get some heavy mining equipment in to keep digging.
I believe the Queen has summonsed Johnson
It would be hilarious if she's decided that if he thinks he can drive a coach & horses through accepted constitutional practice, then so can she: Bye Bye Boris
Can we all please make sure the Brexiteers are made aware that what the govt was appealing to the Supreme Court about was the ruling by a Scottish court that the prorogation was illegal.
i.e. The Scots have ruined Brexit
The support we are getting from the Make England Great Again crowd is magnificent, albeit somewhat rude and crude.
We won't need a referendum for independence if they have their way... 🙂
cannot see a way out for Johnson now. What is his play? Bluff called, flush busted. What can he do.
Anyone?
Stick with his plan. No deal. Out on 31st. Anyway, even Al Jolson says Boris is ‘Not going anywhere’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49817921/donald-trump-boris-johnson-is-not-going-anywhere
cough cough Afghanistan cough Zimbabwe cough Bahrain cough Brunei cough Egypt cough Iraq cough Kuwait cough Libya cough Myanmar cough United States (joke) (or is it)
As someone pointed out, only one of those is Asian. Compare ex French, Portuguese and Belgian colonies to the UKs. Which is more ****ed up - the DRC or Zimbabwe? Mali or Kenya?
Note why I said “partly” - local culture had a lot to do with why, certain countries rebounded from colonialism. But what is clear after spending time in an ex Spanish colony, is that the Spaniards and the Catholic Church imparted rampant corruption and a grass roots culture of corruption. If we did not positively influence certain countries, we at least did not encourage quite the same level of corrupt behaviour.
That’s because the British were once a stickler for rules, that’s why the EU listened to the MHRA and why the EMA modelled themselves on the MHRA, that’s why the rest of the world is so shocked by our descent into madness.
Can we all please make sure the Brexiteers are made aware that what the govt was appealing to the Supreme Court about
Aside from it wasnt just the government appealing.
All three cases were appealed to the Supreme court.
distinct tinge of racism there rayban along with a totally false narrative of british exceptionalismand of course its bollox
Not really TJ - as I said, local culture played a part....as well as geography in how these countries rebounded from western colonialism.
But the corruption that was imparted by the Spanish is really quite clear - and it’s effects in places like the Philippines and the mestizo families who are involved are still obvious to this day.
@epicyclo ^^^^
nothing about that in any media; what's your source?
Don't forget that Brenda is also complicit in this.
TJ
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.846.3717&rep=rep1&type=pdf
If you read around the subject using sources from local scholars - for both the British and Spanish empires respectively, you’ll see how their differences in governance and economic or strategic interest imparted different problems on the societies that they oppressed.
Let’s also talk about Belgium, and the mess it left behind as its Empire retracted. Or, perhaps, instead, how about we keep all this out of this thread.
Sorry, it’s just that when Chewkw bangs on about rules - I get wound up because there are people who I know who put their actual lives on the line trying to implement the rule of law. Journalists, civil servants and civilians get murdered in the Philippines because they want a functioning state - by people and families who don’t care for a rule based order. My wife’s good friends with the founders of Rappler ffs - someone who has been repeatedly arrested and threatened for the work she does.
frankconway
nothing about that in any media; what’s your source?
Which bit? Upholding that the Scottish court's ruling that prorogation was unlawful, or the reaction from MEGA?
The latter I cannot post here because the ban-hammer would fall upon me because the MEGA comments are from a very limited vocabulary. Basically I interpret it as what's Scotland doing interfering in England's parliament, and suggestions about going far distances and copulating once they have thrown us out of England (I think they mean the UK).
@epicyclo - your assertion that '....the Queen has summonsed Johnson'.
A source to verify/substantiate please.
Wish I knew what the hell the "MEGA" is?
Please remember we are not all heavy hitters in here.😉
Wish I knew what the hell the “MEGA” is?
"Make England Great Again". Knock off from Trumps MAGA.
Right, cheers....
That means I know enough already. I get where epic is coming from now.👍
I get wound up
Don’t give him that response.
For all our sakes, just him ignore and move on.
As someone pointed out, only one of those is Asian
Er LOLWUT?
Afghanistan, Brunei, Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq and Myanmar are all in Asia. Not really sure why anyone would claim otherwise.
Stick with his plan. No deal. Out on 31st. Anyway, even Al Jolson says Boris is ‘Not going anywhere’
Malvern rider - he is legally bound to go and ask for an extension - if he doesn't he will be straight of to court again and will lose again.
the PM is not above the law as this case has proved.
Thats why I cannot see what his next move is.
Malvern rider – he is legally bound to go and ask for an extension – if he doesn’t he will be straight of to court again and will lose again.
The government is legally bound and they will send someone else to sign it. Boris will then still be able to claim he never signed it so doesn't have to die in a ditch. And in this case he would actually be telling the truth for once.
He can then also blame whoever signed if for ruining his awesome strategy, along with the judges, the EU, the remainers, members of his own party etc,. etc,.
Afghanistan, Brunei, Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq and Myanmar are all in Asia. Not really sure why anyone would claim otherwise
East Asia.
Of which only two of those are.
Kerley - I like it. That does sort of square the circle for him I guess.
Direct quote rayban
As someone pointed out, only one of those is Asian
which as pointed out is utter bobbins
I believe the Queen has summonsed Johnson
Queen sat on sofa .. Boris shown in ... no chairs, just the sound of the queen writing something in fountain pen as it scratches across the paper... the movement to the blotter as she starts a new page.
After an hour and a half in walks an aide with some printed family photo's which she puts into the same envelope, addresses it and puts a squirt of perfume ... and hands it to the aide to be delivered.
She takes another sheet of paper and briefly looks up, "you can go now Mr. Johnson"...
As he makes his way out she continues "and don't come back"
Oh yeah, EAST Asia, how did I miss that?
Chewkw, you do realise don’t you – that all the shittest Asian ex colonies are Spanish or Portuguese – where there is little rule of law and corruption is endemic because their colonists were as well. Where as the British and parliamentary concept of the rule of law is partly why places like Singapore are light years ahead of them.
cough cough Afghanistan cough Zimbabwe cough Bahrain cough Brunei cough Egypt cough Iraq cough Kuwait cough Libya cough Myanmar cough United States (joke) (or is it)
Most of those aren’t Asian though.
As someone pointed out, only one of those is Asian. Compare ex French, Portuguese and Belgian colonies to the UKs.
Oh yeah, that's why, literally nobody was talking about east Asia. Nice try but no dice.
Interesting to see that only one being Asian is now two being east Asian. Its almost like you're just saying any old bollocks that comes into your head.
boardinbob
Loads of people have been cut off as other people became available, but ETP can’t help but get a sly dig at the SNP 😉
Are you feeling OK? On what planet is observing that the BBC showed Joanna Cherry in their coverage and not Jo Maugham "a dig at the SNP"?
(Unless its sooooo sly a dig its like Dominic Cummings secret plan? (spoiler: its a turnip)
PS my reference to cutting Jo Maugham off was not just to one event on the steps of the court, but the way that the BBC have failed to have him on to explain whats going on and have occasionally asked him for interview on various BBC outlets, just for the opportunity to be removed later without explanation, and some other lawyer being asked to explain his work. It's well documented on his twitter feed and has **** all to do with the SNP.
In other news, after these tweets from Laura Kuenssburg,
L1. No 10 source: “We think the Supreme Court is wrong and has made a serious mistake in extending its reach to these political matters."
2. Source goes on... "Further, the Supreme Court has made it clear that its reasons are connected to the Parliamentary disputes over, and timetable for, leaving the European Union. We think this is a further serious mistake. "
3. No 10 - "We think this is a further serious mistake. We will study the judgement carefully to consider how we can best respond in these unique circumstances. As always the government will respect the law and comply with the courts.”
Does anyone else think its time she started naming to the "source in number 10" who clearly has so little idea of what just happened, that they're accusing the judiciary of "extending its reach into political matters" when they've obviously just reinforced the rule of law and buggered off.
I think she should point out that the courts decision should have no effect on this shambles, since the prorogation was apparently nothing to do with Brexit, according to presumably the very same source...
Does anyone else think its time she started naming to the “source in number 10” who clearly has so little idea of what just happened, that they’re accusing the judiciary of “extending its reach into political matters” when they’ve obviously just reinforced the rule of law and buggered off.
Its a journalistic convention " sources say" means someone who actually knows but is speaking " off the record"
the problem with a journalist naming them is that then that "source" will not speak to them again. It would need most journalists to agree to name the source but they won't as they all want the scoop
its pretty clear that one is cummings.