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But being Scottish, I’m enjoying watching the disintegration of the empire parties.
What do you mean empire parties? You suggesting that the British Empire was an English thing?
Ah, we're clearly in for a little flurry of Cameron 'revelations' then. As if we didn't need more stirring but at least it will a good job of further destroying the Tory party in it's current form
ibDem/Tory pact being considered in Scotland on a “stop the SNP”
That sounds like a good way to ensure that the SNP gains seats, not loses them. If I were a LibDem or Tory voter in Scotland I would be aghast at the idea of a pact like that, and probably stay at home on polling day.
What do you mean empire parties? You suggesting that the British Empire was an English thing?
Steady...lower bayonets he may not be suggesting that 🙂
I always remember that my m8s greatsomething fought at Rorke’s drift(Zulu - Micheal Caine )and his stuffs at the Brecons museum when someone mentions empire.
So if a repolished and hastily renamed Bojo deal surfaces , fudging the NI backstrop by putting NI and Ireland in some regulatory alignment would parliament vote for it as its a deal and they’ve legalised for a deal so not voting for it seems a bit catch 22.
Do the parasitic scumbag traitor hedge funders still get their billions if there is a deal?
Will they actually end up out of pocket?
Please God let at least one of them go bankrupt .( Properly homeless bankrupt not down to their last 10 million.)
molgrips
What do you mean empire parties?
Unionist. UK.
would parliament vote for it
It still won't be Brexit enough for the ERG headbangers, and the opposition have a PM on the ropes so if there's even the tiniest chink of a reason not to support it they'll exploit that to force BoJo to go and ask for an extension. If he doesn't that's bad for him, if he does that's bad in the eyes of his devout followers.
So I reckon there's more chance of me winning the lottery than Boris getting a deal through parliament. And I don't even buy a ticket.
That depends on how many Labour MPs would rather see Freedom of Movement of Workers end, no matter what the cost… even if the price was keeping Labour out of government and giving Johnson the legacy he wants and needs to continue as PM for five years. I don’t think there are enough, but there is no way I’d bet on it.
I think it more likely to come down to, "is there another realistic option" other than a bojo deal or no deal brexit. I suspect that many moderates are now getting a bit twitchy about voting down any more deals and what the consequences of that might entail.
Corbyn’s problem is the Blair years means half his party is Tory-lite.
Well that's a part of the problem, but his biggest problem is that he has been an ineffectual leader, blinded in the glare of scrutiny, hypocritical in his democracy claims, failed to fight either the false claims of anti-semitism or deal with the genuine ones, and mainly on brexit has had to be pushed into what has always been too little too late.
I think it more likely to come down to, “is there another realistic option” other than a bojo deal or no deal brexit.
There is one that jumps immediately to mind...
There are around 70-100 labour brexiteer MPs - Ranging from the deluded Hoey who is an " Out at all costs" outright racist to the lexit deluded idiots like Stringer via the bulk of them too scared of racists in their constituencies and who had any leadership removed under Blair making them followers.
Then there is the 50+ who want a policy of revoke a50 now
Thats the labour issue - not the lies some of you believe about Corbyn.
Talking of deluded Lexiteer idiots, my local Momentum group is presently posting up Lexiteer claptrap like this
Former Brexit secretary and Boris Johnson backer David Davis has said the government may have a “legal strategy” to avoid extending Britain’s EU membership beyond October 31 – before saying he has “no idea what it is”.
Why is the BBC still giving this arsetrumpet airtime? He'd be out of his depth in a paddling pool.
A gentle reminder that whilst hedge fund managers, disaster capitalists and newspaper owners are playing their games, real people's actual lives are in the balance.
Project fear I suppose.
looks like the plan is simply suspend Parliament until November...
Cummings got away with breaking the law repeatedly during the referendum campaign and was then found in contempt of parliament with no censure either.
Looks like him and Boris think that that makes them above the law and they’ll just carry on with that approach
Christ only knows what those pair, backed by the ERG headbangers are cooking up. It’s bound to be a full-on assault on democracy, now it seems that nothing is off-limits in their determination to crash us out with no deal
That French woman could be me if I was still living in the UK.
20 years in the UK
Married to a british woman
3 kids.
Always employed
Home owner
No guarantee to be able to stay in the UK
Should be interesting next time I visit the UK(after 31st of October) , my French passport has got my UK address on it.
But being Scottish, I’m enjoying watching the disintegration of the empire parties.
I'm not convinced the answer to English nationalism is Scottish nationalism.
Even if parliament isn’t suspended, there are lots of tricks the government can use to run down what little parliamentary time there is at the end of October. Some might result in legal action… but even that could then be made to drag out past our exit date. If they want to play dirty, and have no fear of retribution after we have left (why should they), it’s going to be hard to stop them.
Its actually very easy to stop them now that the bill has been passed to make him ask for an extension. If he doesn't he is in contempt of court and goes straight to jail, senior civil servant asks for the extension in Johnsons name. Thats one way. the other is VONC, Johnsons government falls on the 19th. 2 weeks to find another government capable of having the confidence of the house - they ask for the extension
Once the Bill to force an extension was passed adn the election refused Johnson and cummings were left5 with no options that are legally acceptable.
and how long does it take to deal with the illegalities. You are assuming that Johnson and Cummings have any interest in following the law. Even a VONC will take us beyond the end of the month.
that £600,000 has to be earned.
If he is in contempt of court around 5 mins! Courts really do not like that sort of thing. He is legally bound to follow the law, if he doesn't he is arrested, charge adn off he goes.
Once there is a VONC Johnson cannot delay anything - he is out, parliament just needs somone who can pass a vonc
I have absolutely zero confidence that our legal system or constitution is in any way fit for an entire government that doesn’t give a flying **** about either
This is a far right coup.
If the Supreme Court rules that Johnson’s prorogation is legal, then I’d stick your house on him extending it into November
If he doesn’t he is in contempt of court and goes straight to jail
He's already said he'd rather be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. So I reckon he'll be fine about being jailed, revel in it even, a real people's hero. Thousands clamouring for his release outside the jail.
It needs parliament to sidestep Boris and request an extension, because parliament trumps the PM. But for that parliament has to decide to ask for an extension and mandate someone to make the request to the EU if Boris refuses. The EU is obliged to accept the request whether from Boris or parliament but is not obliged to grant the extension which is dependent on the agreement of 27 states.
Daily Fail 28/92019:
Boris freed by Brexit heroes!
charge adn off he goes.
which takes time, innocent until proven guilty, remember that the tories were in contempt of parliament and what happened. What exactly is the crime and the punishment for ignoring the Benn act.
There are c10 days. between breaking the law and Brexit day. in that time you need to find someone to move a VONC, win said motion, install a new PM etc etc etc.
And if he is in danger he could always suspend parliament or maybe make use of the those Henry 8th powers he was granted.
The EU is obliged to accept the request whether from Boris or parliament but is not obliged to grant the extension which is dependent on the agreement of 27 states.
Which I guess comes back to what is the point? Is the UK likely to come up with a plan if given more time.
I reckon he’ll be fine about being jailed, revel in it even, a real people’s hero. Thousands clamouring for his release outside the jail.
Ah yes. "FREE ARE TOMMY!"
mrmo - the plan is second referendum ( made more tricky by Swinson not playing)
Its like Jack with the family cow he's gonna come back with the magic beans on Halloween however meanwhile we have the the EU saying Scotland would get a favourable hearing for rejoining the EU if it went independent.
If it legally went independent. Details. Also just a committee.
It seems the brexiters are going after the RNLI now as they spend 2% of their budget teaching brown children how to swim.
Huff post
In response to the @MailOnline
& @thetimes
:we are proud of our international work. Its saves (mostly kids') lives. And we haven't kept it secret - it's in our annual report, on our website and in the media. We spend just 2% of our expenditure on this work
Makes you proud to British...[/sarcasm]
Bunch of racist ****ers.
that really is a wow article. Thankfully their twitter feed linked to above seems to be full of more sensible commentators. It's getting a little scary when that is the level reached.
squirrelking
If it legally went independent...
All it has to do is dissolve the Treaty of Union.
That's a unilateral action and one available to a govt with a majority of independence parties. (Which there is)
It is also unlikely that it will happen that way.
Scotland does not need permission to leave, but the whole point of getting an agreement for a referendum is so that Westminster agrees to respect the result instead of reacting. Tanks on the street and all that...
Thankfully their twitter feed linked to above seems to be full of more sensible commentators
There are plenty of howling soulless ****s that were dogpiling it earlier today. ****s. Just ****s.
Their social media team has done well to engage the sensible people commenting on that tweet.
One benefit of Brexit is the opportunities it provides for cartoonists 🙂
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All it has to do is dissolve the Treaty of Union.
That’s a unilateral action and one available to a govt with a majority of independence parties. (Which there is)
Actually no, Von Rumpoy explicitly said any independence would have to be gained by a referendum legally granted by Westminster.
Just been on Twitter which I try to avoid like the plague to look at the RNLI getting abuse.
I'm **** sickened. I've now spent over an hour(politely) replying to some of the * heads on there. An utter waste of time of course, it's not even really about the RNLI.
The morally corrupt, touting the Union flag and slamming the RNLI for saving lives from drowning simply because the last molecule that fills their lungs came from another ocean.
Utter c****.
I wonder if the excuse that they are the Royal NATIONAL Lifeboat Institute sticks when they consider the likes of the BRITISH Red Cross?
That Mail article really is plumbing new depths.
Holy crap that Daily mail article is gutter stuff even by their standards.
Brexiteer 1: We want a more international outlook, focusing on high growth economies around the world and to reinvigorate commonwealth ties.
Brexiteer 2: Discrace that their hard erned money is goin to abrod. Britain first eggnog said. Sham on you RNLI.
Cripes, wait till they find out who operates lifeboats around the coast of Ireland.
squirrelking
...Von Rumpoy explicitly said any independence would have to be gained by a referendum legally granted by Westminster
Who's Von Rumpoy? 🙂
It's generally accepted that treaties between countries can be revoked, so I'd like more detail.
Anyone hear Raab on R4 this morning, stating that it goes without saying that the government will comply with the law, whilst avoiding the very simple question as to whether they will comply with the legislation requiring an extension to avoid no deal.
"the implications are unclear", apparently...
I’d like to pretend to be surprised by that DM article and the spite filled frothing of those disgusted by British money saving the wrong people’s lives.
But I’m not. I wonder how much further we can sink as a society.
I wonder how much further we can sink as a society.
Given that the last 3 years has seen the agenda constantly shifted further and further to the far-right, and that the kind of policies now being advocated by government ministers were, not too long ago, the exclusive preserve of the likes of Tommy Robinson and the BNP, I don't hold out much hope of it getting any better
It’s generally accepted that treaties between countries can be revoked, so I’d like more detail.
Perhaps on the Scottish independence thread?
My view - the biggest obstacle now to stopping "no deal" is Swinson and the lib dems. By refusing to work with corbyn and now the new policy of revoke without a referendum she has driven a wedge between the anti no deal groups and makes no deal more likely
She really is tory lite - there are now more ex tory mps in her party than liberals!
All you folk saying you will vote lib dem not labour ( unless tactical anti tory) you lib dem vote will make brexit / no deal more likely and a tory government more likely.
A lot of people who voted remain are looking to the lib dems due to their complete exasperation at the hopeless, ineffective performance of the labour party and its continued non-commital, half rice/half chips fence-sitting.
We know that isn't your take on it, but you must appreciate that its an entirely valid and understandable point of view
The country doesn’t want Corbyn and doesn’t want Brexit. If Swinson is looking to try and win votes off the back of the intersection of those two truths… who can blame her.
[ I’m voting Labour not LibDem when the inevitable general election comes - are you @TJagain ? ]
By taking away a Tory majority by offering a new home to Tory-lite remainers Swinson has made no deal a lot less likely. Check out the voting in the votes Boris lost that have made no deal less likely, TJ. It's the rise of the center that's blocking Brexit not the lexiters or ERG.
A Tory-lite, Labour-lite Liberal democratic party is fine by me. It's Corbyn and Boris that want blue or red shades of Brexit that need ousting.
Swinson would get my vote if I still had one.
She really is tory lite
Falling back on archaic party descriptions that are no longer of any relevance is half the problem. traditional assumptions about party positions are just no longer applicable in this mad, Brexit-deranged country
Given that the Tory party has now morphed almost completely into UKIP/Brexit party and is busy purging all its 'one nation' MPs, and that Labour under Corbyn is becoming the Socialist Workers Party, Tory-lite* as you scathingly describe it, looks like a pretty smart place to position yourself to me
Did you miss the EU and local election results?
*Tory-lite, Blairite, Centrist - whatever this week's favoured term of abusive is being spat by both the left and the right
By refusing to work with corbyn
Where is this stated? They worked together to pass the legislation to ( hopefully ) prevent a no deal exit, didn't they?
They worked together to pass the legislation
I think that was mostly John McDonnell & Nick Brown … although Corbyn played his role perfectly while all that was playing out … I presume TJ is talking about Swinson saying she doesn’t want to make Corbyn PM.
She has stated it several times and by adopting the revoke without referendum position she has split the anti no deal side. simple as
Voting lib dem now will make a tory government more likely and a no deal brexit more likely. If she was serious about stopping brexit and stopping a tory government then she would be working closely with labour. But she refuses to do so.
Its clear what she is trying to do ( attract tory remainers) but her political naivety shows thru as her actions will have the opposite effect.
vote lib dem get tory and no deal brexit - thats the reality
As for my voting preferences - it really makes no difference from a brexit point of view as the likely winners in my coinstituency are all anti brexit. No pro brexit candidate has a chance
Are you voting Labour? Or just preaching down to others?
and that Labour under Corbyn is becoming the Socialist Workers Party,
yes. yes of course.
‘Tory-lite’ as you describe, it looks like a pretty smart place to position yourself
She is pretty right wing by any sensible standards. Its a reflection of triumph of the hardright that they have managed to portray what was extremist economical views as mainstream in less than 30 years.
I would say at least she remains socially liberal but given her willingness to accept some former tories who are anything but got to question that as well.
Okay, let’s say she an anti-Brexit liberal yellow Tory… just to make the tribalists happy. Lots of people will vote for that right now … hopefully loads in seats where Conservative Brexit Party MPs can be beaten.
Not just not making him PM but completely refusing to work with him at all - as can be seen by her splitting the anti brexit side with the stupid policy of revoke without referendum and from multiple statements she ha s made each time getting more and more strident.
Mark my words - she is after a ministerial car in a tory government. My bet is she will lose her seat tho - good riddence. I am so angry about her behaviour. She is now the biggest obstacle in stopping brexit
The anti-no deal legislation shows that Swinson is happy to work with Corbyn
Labour still have not figured out that ambiguity over Brexit (& their position still unclear) Swinson is putting pressure on Corbyn to back remain & she has leverage to do it.
Without the LibDems (and all the people voting for them and the Greens earlier this year)… Labour Brexit policy would still be stuck in 2017.
She is not socially liberal - look at her voting record! she has consistently voted against liberal positions.
Swinson has positioned herself where the tories were 20 years ago
vote lib dem get tory and no deal brexit – thats the reality
That's just far too simplistic.
Depends where you are, surely?
In my ultra-marginal northern constituency, I'd have to be mental to vote Lib Dem. I might as well just torch my voting slip! I have to vote labour.
But more affluent, metropolitan, liberal-thinking southern seats are chock full of remain-minded voters who are clearly absolutely appalled by what the (Faragist) Tory party has become. I'd imagine the same applies in reverse. A vote for labour here would be a total waste of your vote.
Add in the 'true believers' who will go to Farage, I reckon the Lib Dems will take a lot of seats off the Tories in southern remain constituencies
If you look at the seats Boris is targetting, they're all northern and midlands leave-voting ones, so he must think so too
The anti-no deal legislation shows that Swinson is happy to work with Corbyn
Nope - that was not between Corbyn and her and look what she has done since and look at her statemnts - getting ever more anti corbyn She has no idea that the only way to beat brexit is to have a united anti brexit opposition.
Binners - I did say unless tactical anti tory
Lib dems will lose seats not gain them. I bet after the next election they have less MPs than now - ans Swinson will be one of the ones lost
History will judge her badly. She has the opportunity and power to block brexit but has thrown it away because she does not like corbyn
The country overwhelmingly does not like Corbyn, and wants Brexit stopped… especially in seats where Conservative MPs can be unseated. Her plan is sound. She’s not after your vote or mine TJ. The LibDems have to win over people who previously voted Conservative, in seats where hardly anyone voted Labour in recent elections. Just chasing 2017 Labour voters will not get her party many more seats (nor lose the Conservative party many of their seats).
Stopping Brexit requires either the opposition parties to change tack, and move to a referendum first, general election second, position… or for the LibDems to steal seats at a general election from the Conservatives, and Labour to do at least as well as in 2017 with their seat count. At the moment, none of that looks likely (sadly)… but all of this conference season political manoeuvring needs to be watched with this in mind.
Lib dems will lose seats not gain them.
I'll take that bet, Uncle Jezza. Usual pasty-related goodies? 😀
I understand that - but by doing what she is doing she is making a tory government and a no deal brexit more likely.
She was able to go into coalition with Cameron and Osbourne and instigate austerity that harmed so many for no reason but she will not even support Corbyn to stop no deal?
Swinson dismissed the possibility of supporting Corbyn along the lines of the Democratic Unionist party’s confidence-and-supply arrangement with the Conservatives. “I don’t know how I can be clearer – I do not think he is fit to be prime minister. He is trying to take our country into Brexit. He has failed to tackle antisemitism in his own party.”
BOth complete lies
She refused point blank to state which labour policies she objects to - its all about personalities with her.
Certainly Binners. I enjoyed my Gregs last time 🙂
…its all about personalities with her.
Yes, and it’s a vote winner. In her target seats people do not like or trust Corbyn. These seats can not be won if she can be painted as being a proxy for a Corbyn led government.
We're at a strange point in time now where we've been lambasting Corbyn for three years for sitting on the fence and now we're giving Swinson a kicking for not doing so. It's no wonder the headbangers haven't been ousted yet.
She really is tory lite
Apart from the repeal A50 bit.
Swinson says Lib Dems open to pro-remain electoral pacts, but not with Labour
Jo Swinson, the Lib Dem leaders, has also said that her party is in talks with other parties about standing aside in certain seats at the next general election to ensure that pro-remain candidates are elected. But Labour would not be included in such an arrangement, she told BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland programmeAs the Press Association reports, Swinson said that such an agreement had worked well previously, including in the Brecon and Radnorshire by-election last month where Jane Dodds was elected as a new MP for the party. She went on:
There was obviously success for that kind of arrangement in the Brecon and Radnorshire by-election. Plaid Cymru and the Green party stood aside, stood shoulder to shoulder if you like, with the Liberal Democrats and Jane Dodds was elected to be a very unequivocal voice in parliament for remain. So, that happened already and it’s successful.
Asked whether the party would stand aside for Labour candidates, the Lib Dem leader said:
That’s a different question because Labour are not a remain party, Labour are trying to deliver a Labour Brexit. But where we agree with others on stopping Brexit, we are in those discussions.
From the Grauniad - outright l;ies about the labour position. stupidly backing herself into a corner and those tactics make a tory government and a no deal brexit morte likely as all she is doing is splitting the anti brexit vorte.
A non agression pact with labour where each stood down in 50 seats would mean no brexit and no tory government
She is not going to get any deal with the SNP - they will be targetting her seat hard. She is no liberal! Look at her voting record!
but not with
LabourCorbyn
He is a vote loser. The party I will be voting for are stuck with him. Why the hell would another party tie themselves to him?
That’s a different question because Labour are not a remain party
Is she not just quoting Barry Gardiner there? What is the lie TJ?