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Woah! I didn’t actually read the filthy rag. But to demonstrate a point that it didn’t take much to find evidence of Corbyn’s activism, it did the job...
I’d be impressed if Corbyn supported a general election and then stood down as leader the moment it was passed in parliament.
Corbyn isn’t dithering, he’s managing a complex and nuanced situation to get the best outcome. However as we’ve seen, people don’t understand that and see it as dithering. Shame really. We want thoughtful and careful politicians but when we get one we just attack him anyway. This is why we’re in a mess and why we’re doomed.
He isn't thoughtful and careful, and he isn't managing the situation, it is just happening around him while he is stood frozen in the middle having no effect.
I’d be impressed if Corbyn supported a general election and then stood down as leader the moment it was passed in parliament
And realistically that is now the best thing he could do for the country, whether you believe he is a tactical genius or a dithering fool, no one actually sees him winning a majority, if he wants the best for the country and especially the poorest and most vulnerable then he should stand down and allow someone who can win take up the challenge of defeating the right wing extremists before it is too late.
if he wants the best for the country and especially the poorest and most vulnerable then he should stand down and allow someone who can win take up the challenge of defeating the right wing extremists before it is too late.
And herein lies the problem. Even if he did step down, the party would be paralysed whilst a drawn out election for a new leader is undertaken, giving a hostile media weeks of free runs on how divided the party appears whilst the candidates duke it out
For a man who, so we are told, has spent his life campaigning and protesting, he seems to have spent the last 3 years being remarkably sanguine about what essentially amounts to a far right coup. I haven’t seen the slightest hint of any protesting or campaigning.
That is because he has never been a europhile until recently when pressured by certain people. He is just pretending to be one for the moment but wait until he gets into power. He would probably drain the swap much faster than Tories. Bear in mind, those defectors to Lib dem etc are the first round of Magic Grandpa (still make me laugh this term) draining the swap without even "tarnishing" his own image.
On the other hand, many of the Tories are just "secret" europhile but just pretending to be not. 😄
Both sides are draining the swap but the media just portray them differently to increase their ratings.
It’s like having David Icke’s inner monologue beamed directly onto the internet 😃
someone who can win
Like all the brilliant Labour statespeople who are just hanging around doing nothing currently?
Here you go. Sitting around doing nothing, Jess Phillips style...
https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1169337961420337154?s=21
The Labour Party would walk a general election with her in charge. She’s everything that Corbyn, and indeed Johnson, isn’t
It’s about time Labour had a female leader, and she’d make a brilliant PM
Whoa
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1170373770487500800?s=19
Would leave Tories 21 short of a majority (electoral calculus)
Why even contemplate an election which runs the risk of returning a Tory government of any sort?
The obvious thing to do, now that no-deal is written into law, is to have a vote of no confidence and install a new government of national unity. The numbers are now there to oust Bojo, and, providing a suitable interim PM can be found that keeps a majority of MPs happy, then this is surely the best option:
Seek an extension, have cross party talks on a compromise brexit strategy and accptable deal (FoM, Single market access etc), see if EU will accept, and if so then referendum ... deal or remain. As soon as done and dusted a new GE can be run.
Maybe use the opportunity to introduce PR while we have the chance (maybe pushing it)
The polls also show that the Tory lead evaporates in the event of an extension to EU membership. Presumably because Leavers return to the Brexit party.
install a new government of national unity
There is no unity. Labour still want pink unicorns, the LibDems have, under Swinson, lurched further right than much of the Tory party and the SNP will demand a Section 30 - which the other two won't offer.
The polls also show that the Tory lead evaporates in the event of an extension to EU membership. Presumably because Leavers return to the Brexit party.
A Tory-Brexit alliance will will under both circumstances then?
Why even contemplate an election which runs the risk of returning a Tory government of any sort?
Indeed. The stakes are very high. I think the opposite parties are playing a good game at the moment. No need to do anything precipitous. Leave Johnson contemplating that ditch for a while.
Looks like my MP John Mann is off in a cloud of anti-semitism anger ... To work for the Tories. (Probably before he gets deselected.)
Good riddance. Vile piece of work.
However being in Brexitopia Bassetlaw I wonder what will happen next.
A Tory-Brexit alliance will will under both circumstances then?
Yeah not looking good.
Then Drop out of any extension assuming we get one.
Don’t think this is going to play out well and I think people are dissing the Dom when he’s probably been doing market research on how to win at any cost.
It’s about time Labour had a female leader, and she’d make a brilliant PM
That was the most overrated speech I've ever seen in the commons. It's funny how she can't aim anything in support of her own party.
Voice wobbling phoney.
Was funny that there was hardly anyone on the Government's bench.
There was a better speech that day but you didn't flag that did you?
She's terrible and hopefully will bugger off at some point.
The Labour Party would walk a general election with her in charge. She’s everything that Corbyn, and indeed Johnson, isn’t
Yes, a self-serving Tory-lite narcissist.
She wouldn't walk an election. At all.
She will be lucky to hang on to her constituency next time. But she will almost certainly end up with a TV career.
The obvious thing to do, now that no-deal is written into law, is to have a vote of no confidence and install a new government of national unity. The numbers are now there to oust Bojo, and, providing a suitable interim PM can be found that keeps a majority of MPs happy, then this is surely the best option:
Seek an extension, have cross party talks on a compromise brexit strategy and accptable deal (FoM, Single market access etc), see if EU will accept, and if so then referendum … deal or remain. As soon as done and dusted a new GE can be run.
I think your spot on this And play it off with “Brexit - its done” which would neutralise Boris an the Brexit party as Brexit to a large number of people would be over and done.
Yes, a Tory-lite narcissist
She’s terrible and hopefully will bugger off at some point
And there, in a nutshell, is why the Labour Party under Corbyn is completely unelectable
And there, in a nutshell, is why the Labour Party under Corbyn is unelectable
We endure all of your anti-Corbyn rhetoric and nauseous insults for months and you think you have the superior angle here...
Okay.
(IIRC you had similar affinity for Chuka and Rory Stewart.)
Good news - we might be able to get rid of another bothersome woman! Probably another tory-lite narcissist!
This will ABSOLUTELY help get rid of the tories.
Both parties are now run by (Unelected) extremist zealots who will tolerate no dissent from their terminally narrow world view
All talent, ability, free-thinking and intellect is being forced out for insufficient loyalty to the glorious leaders
Look at both front benches. Barely two brain cells to rub together between the lot of them. They’ve never had an original or abstract thought in their heads
Two rows of intellectually bankrupt nodding dogs
the LibDems have, under Swinson, lurched further right than much of the Tory party
Really?
They've housed a handful of Tory moderates (well by Tory standards) for the sake of stopping the hard rights Brexit
Good news – we might be able to get rid of another bothersome woman! Probably another tory-lite narcissist!
This will ABSOLUTELY help get rid of the tories.
Even more self harm on the way
https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1170406731773616133?s=19
All talent, ability, free-thinking and intellect is being forced out for insufficient loyalty to the glorious leaders
So on the one hand we have:
Tories under Johnson whose office has directly suspended the whip for those who dare vote against him making them ineligible for reelection.
Labour under Corbyn whose office hasnt done such a thing but instead whose individual constituency parties are given the choice of saying that they want someone to reapply.
Comparing the two is either stupidity or deliberate misconflation. Which is it?
They’ve housed a handful of Tory moderates
You are ignoring her own pretty right wing policies although the use of "tory moderates" is debatable. They have had several people quit the party including their LGBT chair since they dont really want to be in the same party as Phillip Lee.
Amber Rudd just quit
Also a 3rd poll out today...
Tories have 14pt lead !
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1170427559517048834?s=19
Even more self harm on the way
Not really. Context, as ever, is important.
Momentum seem to have a policy that they do want the opportunity to (re)select the MP each year.
Since they want it as routine process it therefore doesnt really mean much without knowing more about that momentum group.
Generally with regards to this reselect process it doesnt really seem a unreasonable request.
The tory party, for example, require this to happen although for reelection its just the committee voting rather than everyone.
Considering its the local party who go out campaigning it seems fair that they should get a say in who should represent them. I can see why some MPs parachuted in and who then try to have sod all to do with the locals might not be overly keen but then that gets into the question about what the parties are all about and who has the power. Should it be the central party able to drop people in at will or should it be ground up? Both I think have advantages and disadvantages.
Just because Corbyn is conducting his purge in a less dramatic manner than Johnson doesn’t make it any less sinister or insidious.
Both the intention and the end result are the same
The quashing of dissent
And, as a country, we can already see how much worse off we all are for that
So 4 polls from the last day
Averaging them out that gives the Tories a 50 seat majority
The only poll that shows a post 31st election flips it the other way , Tories 50 seats short
Just because Corbyn is conducting his purge in a less dramatic manner than Johnson doesn’t make it any less sinister or insidious
One with stealth the other one with "glory" but both achieve the same result.
Both the intention and the end result are the same
The quashing of dissent
Ahh ... you just edited while I was posting.
Yes, agree.
And, as a country, we can already see how much worse off we all are for that
Yeap! All the politicians retire with their fat pension at the end of the day.
The comments on Rudd's resignation tweet make this place look like a bastion of sensible debate...
Just because Corbyn is conducting his purge in a less dramatic manner than Johnson doesn’t make it any less sinister or insidious.
I would ask you to explain your knowledge of how Corbyn passes these secret orders down the chain especially when it comes to whether it will work for any strong pro EU MPs given momentums position but lets face it you are making stuff up arent you? You have no better idea than me.
A far better comparison for Johnson would have been Blair and, to a less extent, Cameron both of whom were rather keen on parachuting candidates in from central office to ensure loyalty. More of a long term plan but its fascinating you dont decry that.
Johnson's 'death by a thousand cuts' continues.
How many more sensible, reasonable senior tories need to walk before the realisation dawns on the rest that they're dying on their feet?
Kimbers - don't get hung up polls; there'll be another one soon to contradict the previous one and will continue ad nauseam.
Would the tories seriously consider any sort of agreement with the brexit 'party?
That would surely end them as a credible political party.
Your Blair analogy falls down when you consider that he had on his backbenches the most serially disloyal MP in the parties history. Or any party. By a country mile!
No moves were ever made to deselect him, make him stand for compulsory annual reelection of gag him in any way
What was his name again? I forget...
Scruffy bloke with the beard...
John Mann just quit labour to become the Tories anti-Semitism tsar
Labour hard Lefties cheering on twitter, but it's a PR coup for the Tories, just when they need one 🤪
Your Blair analogy falls down when you consider that he had on his backbenches the most serially disloyal MP in the parties history
As you yourself managed to notice, although incorrectly, there are less dramatic ways to pack the party with loyalists. Blair used those to the extreme.
As for those disloyal votes. Its rather educational to see on how few of those occasions he was voting the same way as the tories.
Labour hard Lefties cheering on twitter, but it’s a PR coup for the Tories, just when they need one
Wonder how soon he will go.
On the one hand it is definitely a propaganda coup on the other, although I suspect rather strongly related, it would mean one less hard brexiteer voting with Johnson (think it was only him and Hoey who went against the votes this week from the opposition).
I'll bet Cummings is fuming
He's famously tight with the the mail, sun, telegraph etc
I'm sure he had a big reset planned for next week in tomorrow's papers
Now Rudd's blown that up!
I think what danny is saying is that it’s not fair that decent, respectable and upstanding middle class people like him are not having it all their own way any more or being paid the attention they deserve.
Would sir like curry sauce or gravy with his shoulder-mounted chips?
Must be quite a weight to carry around, maybe that’s the reason behind the inferiority complex? I can’t help you with that, so sorry.
All the people I referred to voted Remain and were aghast at the result. All would probably vote for a vaguely credible Labour leader.
He was being disloyal to the leadership. Which he was tolerated in doing, year after year
That gets you deselected under his party leadership now
That seem right to you?
I’m seeing the word....
Hypocrisy
Wonder how soon he will go.
Not sure, once he's said he's joining the Tories can't imagine he could stick around !
Tbf the Rudd news will eclipse it so shouldn't be too bad !
Will the news of Mann joining the Tories get rid of that strop-on face Boris has in that photo used on the BBC today? 😆
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49618242
The best news he has had this week!
Mann to Tories, Rudd leaving.
Maybe it’s time for MPs to reshuffle to better suit the new division lines?
Honestly though, some Labour voters drive me mad, anyone who’s not a hysterical socialist is the enemy, there’s no consideration, no tolerance it’s us verses them and everyone else is a varying degree of ‘Tory’. change the record. You’re your parties worst enemy.
If you want to change the U.K. you need to represent the views of the majority, not try to impose what you think it best on everyone, it doesn’t work like that.
That gets you deselected under his party leadership now
Bless. Do you really think he would have been deselected by his local party given that the majority of the times he was rebelling he was voting in line with traditional labour values. I assume you have managed to get beyond the simple soundbites and looked at those issues he rebelled on. If that is too hard for you just look at the top level figure of:
votes against government but with tories.
votes against government and against tories.
Again, you’re analogy breaks down when you consider the difference in the super-rapid way Alastair Campbell was dealt with, yet Kate Hoeys serially voting with the Tory’s raises no censure at all, because she’s a Brexiteer ‘fellow traveller’.
You believe if he wasn’t the accidental leader that he wouldn’t be voting the same way as her?
Of course he would
Please don’t try and maintain this is anything other than a (selective) purge
It’s quite obvious what it is
He’s doing exactly the same as Johnson. Let’s not pretend otherwise
#onelesstory
🤩
Has Angela Smith gone to the LDs now as well?
Sorry guys just a quick question?
The Labour MP that's just quit, it's moved to the Tories??
Was going to edit, but I'll leave the "it". Lol
Momentum Camden meeting on Monday to discuss trigger ballots against Keir Starmer and Tulip Siddiq
Momentum seem to have a policy that they do want the opportunity to (re)select the MP each year.
If Starmer gets deselected before the general election, the Labour vote will go into freefall.
Yes, a Tory-lite narcissist
Most of the country are “Tory-lite”, in the eyes of some people.
If Starmer gets deselected before the general election, the Labour vote will go into freefall.
100% agree
We had local labour canvassing us today, had kids in the car and bikes on the back , they kept saying how they were for the future
I told them i liked many of their their policies but Brexit was a big factor
My wife was a bit grumpier
Definitely a great idea, at this particular juncture, to deselect the only member of the Labour front bench who looks even vaguely competent
Most of the country are “Tory-lite”
Given election results over the years, it’s sadly a pretty safe conclusion. I was born under Thatcher and I’ve not seen a left wing government yet
...oh, and that Momentum vs Starmer thing? Seems questionable as 1) that tweet seems to have disappeared, 2) the only mention I can find via google is a random reddit thread, and 3) no mention on Momentum Camden’s Facebook page
Fake news?
If Starmer gets deselected
Starmer isn’t going to get deselected. Calm down FFS. If it happens I will join you in condemning the local party but it won’t happen.
It’s quite obvious what it is
Yes of course it. Not that just possibly your raging hatred of Corbyn makes you effectively unable to think. Just look at the long list of times you pronounced with absolute certainty Corbyn would do x,y, or z and then looked an absolute idiot when it didnt happen.
I wouldnt give a toss apart from the danger of saying it is the same as what Johnson is doing. By doing that you are playing right into the hard rights playbook.
Ruddy hell it gets worse, like rats from sinking ships
Given election results over the years, it’s sadly a pretty safe conclusion
Or, more accurately, the FPTP system makes a small number of constituencies and people within them overly important.
The problem with chasing those voters is whether or not you assume the core constituents are always going to remain with you. No point gaining the few if the rest end up demoralised and giving up on politics or voting leave in a referendum just because they feel so badly failed by government.
The Starmer thing really is entertaining. Paying cursory attention to the political pages, outside of brexit, would give an idea of what is going on. Although admittedly there is a load of guff there with binners level of outrage and unthinking frothing.
Tory requires the MP to be reselected by the committee
Libdems require the MP to be reselected by a vote of the local party
SNP requires the MP to be reselected by a vote of the local party.
Labour didnt until now where it is an option.
Since it is now an option the mere listing of it on the form really doesnt mean anything. It doesnt mean they want to kick someone out it just means they are exercising the right, as used in other parties, to decide whether they want a candidate to remain.
Just to reiterate. Near enough every other party if you look at their meeting minutes would have this appearing every few years and, just to take Starmer, given how pro EU momentum are do you really think they would go after him at this stage in the game?
Of course I could be wrong but I doubt it.
Whereas, on the flipside, I suspect if Hoey hadnt already said she was going I suspect her party would be booking rather more time for it. In fact she is a good example of why people pushed to be moved in line with the other parties. Parachuted in by central Labour against the wishes of the local party who has gone on consistently to fail to represent them but they couldnt do much about it without deserting the party.
It doesnt mean they want to kick someone out it just means they are exercising the right, as used in other parties, to decide whether they want a candidate to remain.
Nice doublethink!
The people I work with are sensible, reasonably engaged about Brexit and know that the Conservatives caused all this. There are four of us who are fairly good friends.
In past times, when the world was halfway sane, we would all have been described as moderate conservatives. Two of them now say ‘Boris Johnson is a total stroker and shouldn’t be anywhere near power, but I CANNOT vote for Jeremy Bloody Corbyn – terrorist sympathizer and clueless dithering twunt’.
Well, your sensible friends seem a bit dim if that’s their take.
Nice doublethink!
ermm how? Remember I addressing the credulous frothing that automatically assumes that just because its on the list means they are voting for reselection.
It is amazing this is being turned into such a big deal for Labour when it is ****ing routine for most other parties. Its either people being wilfully ignorant considering how little effort it takes to have a clue or deliberately distorting information.
It is rather the manner in which it is being used and to what ends. As you well know.
It is rather the manner in which it is being used and to what ends
Okay. So how is it being used and to what ends. Lets get past the conspiracy theories and the binners level delusions.
Are you trying to claim that they will be deselecting Starmer and co?
What makes Labour so bad and evil compared to all the other parties.
Getting back to Brexit, it’s always good to get the Irish viewpoint, and Fintan O’Toole in the Irish Times has been one of the most interesting commentators.
Apparently Boris goes to Dublin tomorrow. I can’t see his travails getting any easier there.
The vices that led Johnson to the top are useless when it comes to wielding power
It doesnt mean they want to kick someone out it just means they are exercising the right, as used in other parties, to decide whether they want a candidate to remain.
I’ve read this three times, and would love someone to explain it to me. So the process isn’t automatic (as it is in other parties) and must be triggered… but those triggering it don’t want to change the candidate, just have the chance to vote not to change the candidate? Is that the logic?
Okay. So how is it being used and to what ends. Lets get past the conspiracy theories and the binners level delusion
So, why exactly would they want to do it at this particular time? (If the story is true) It's a bit like the Boris line of: "It's perfectly normal to prorogue Parliament. This has nothing to do with Brexit"
The more I think about it… the more the Cherry amendment (or a bill based on a similar idea) is essential (that is giving MPs a vote at the final hour to revoke if it is the only way to stop a No Deal Brexit at the time), and without it Johnson can find a way to default us into a No Deal Brexit… if only by finding ways to make an extension unpalatable to other EU countries.
Very very sweary
Regardless of whether leave or remain voter it's just bizarre that we've reached a point where the polls suggest the UK pops feels a load of Old Etonian millionaires are the best people to represent them and have their interests at heart.
In years to come suspect will be seen as the biggest con job ever.
@Kelvin, very much so, MPs need to accept that they are two options, neither very appealing, they either revoke or they move for a referendum and send the decision back to voters. Both are risky and being honest I don't believe that another referendum is a sensible move without major work being done about prosecuting those involved in illegal activity in the 2016 ref and working to ensure a free and fair vote.
a load of Old Etonian millionaires are the best people to represent them and have their interests at heart.
In years to come suspect will be seen as the biggest con job ever.
Exactly what has happened every time the Conservative's win an election. Their job is to fool the public into thinking they are the best people to represent them and they largely carry it off.
Having a media that could only report facts and not political opinion would be a good start to reversing that.
Lawyer on r4 the other day said that if Johnson refuses to do as directed an injunction can be sought to force him, if he ignores that he can be held in contempt of court and banged up.
As I stated earlier, it was also reported that the EU would consider the passing of the no deal legislation as if the letter had been sent, irrespective of if bojo does his homework.
So it seems to me that if he didn't write the letter it would be an empty gesture with jail time at the end of it. Perfect!
I look forward to the DUPs faces when there is a hard border with Eire and another with an independent Scotland.
So it seems to me that if he didn’t write the letter
I saw Javid on Marr this morning, adamant that BoJo wouldn't be asking for an extension and that we'd be leaving on 31st,but strangely he wouldn't answer any questions on how this is supposed to happen. My first thoughts were that Cummings had spotted a loophole in the law, but then if its been through both houses you'd hope that any scope for interpretation had already been noted and challenged. So then I figured this was just blatent electioneering as admitting any sort of weakness now will start the stampede from tories to bxp, and once they've gone it's going to be doubly hard for team Boris to win them back.
Nick Cohen made a good point in the Observer today. If Boris got banged up for contempt of court, he’d likely end up, given his profile, on the nonces wing in Belmarsh
I’m sure his ‘I’d rather be dead in a ditch’ protestations will go the same way as him lying down in front of the bulldozers at Heathrow
It still absolutely baffles me that there are sentient beings who haven’t seen through his totally insincere, blustering bullshit years ago
If you want to change the U.K. you need to represent the views of the majority, not try to impose what you think it best on everyone, it doesn’t work like that
No you don't. You set out a plan and then you sell it to your electorate.
You're not imposing anything - you don't have to vote for the political party that doesn't best fit your world view.
Binners raves on about Corbyn but he could just support another party. That's the bit I don't get. His views are served by other parties (To the best of my last limited forum knowledge.)
I come from a similar background to him (from what I can gather) but I have more in common with traditional Labour values than he does. Corbyn reflects those values. That'll do for me.
All leaders of all parties are completely entangled with Brexit, there is no one politician who has got the answer. And no one Labour leader that wouldn't have the same battle on their hands.
If only it was that simple … FPTP
it was also reported that the EU would consider the passing of the no deal legislation as if the letter had been sent, irrespective of if bojo does his homework
But does he have to accept the extension if the EU offer it, or can he just say, unilaterally, we're leaving? I have no idea.
Not if no deal legislation is passed or no other deal agreed. Stalemate? Then what?
I believe Macron was also considering vetoing the extention.
I believe Macron was also considering vetoing the extention.
There was a great spectator article suggesting Boris has done a deal with Macron. A deal for fishing and wine in exchange for a veto.
Comedy genius if he pulled that off.