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He really dose love his wartime analogies doesn’t he?
I think we can file his ‘dying in a ditch’ with his ‘lying in front of the bulldozers’ at Heathrow
Like all gobby cowards, when the shit goes down, he’s unlikely to be in the vicinity
First time I’ve seen this guff on facebook
You can stop at the first paragraph really:
I just voted to leave because I thought our sovereignty was being compromised by foreign unelected masters.
It isn't.
That we were compelled to have unlimited uncontrolled immigration
We aren't.
our laws and export agreements dictated by Brussels bureaucrats
It isn't.
The rest of the text is SHOCKING facts which have just about enough loose basis in fact occasionally to give it credence, which is sufficient to distract from the fact that the original premise it's trying to justify is bollocks. It's a very, very clever piece of propaganda, that.
A no deal brexit probably leaves the most people unhappy. A brexit-in-name-only probably the next.
If by "happy" you're referring to being happy with the outcome and quality of life post-brexit then I'd agree. If you mean happy with the result then you couldn't be more wrong IMHO.
This is the dichotomy. You try to protect people from themselves and they'll hate you for it. I think I'm finally understanding what it must be like to be a parent.
The Brussels Strasbourg thing is ridiculous as well.
More or less ridiculous than keeping our Parliament in the SE corner of the country in a rickety old building and spending £4.5bn to stop it falling down?
The only reason mr Cummings is allowed to carry on like a drunk psychopath is because his strength is weaponised propaganda, so they need him to reproduce his results for the referendum campaign for any upcoming election
All the more reason Corbyn mustn’t give in and grant them one before November. They’ll plumb new depths of dishonesty because they just don’t ****ing care.
One of Johnson’s former aids said today - as if we needed it stating - that they think that laws apply to others but not to them
The Cambridge Analytica stuff will pale to insignificance next to the shit they’ll be planning for an election campaign
The Brussels Strasbourg thing is ridiculous as well.
From a disaster recovery point of view it does make sense to have at least 2 geographical locations so you can regroup almost immediately.
Think of data centers or cloud storage for IT companies, if the building catches fire you can switch instantly to the other location with minimal downtime.
With the threat from Russia and the USA, and possibly China, it's good practice to have off site backups lol!
Watching Emily Thornberry try and explain Labours torturously flailing Brexit policy on Question Time is just painful
She doesn’t even appear to know what it is
If.. if.. if.. if.. if...
Not half as concerning as Kwarteng's talking over everyone, mumbling after being bollocked - generally behaving like a gobshite.
What a **ick.
Tice isn't much better.
If this a representative sample of the 'political class' we really have sunk to a new low; what an unappetising bunch of entitled half-wits - ignorant, arrogant and thoroughly unpleasant.
If any of them were on fire I wouldn't piss on them to extinguish it.
So Jeremy Corbyn is scared to have an election because he'll lose
& SNP are scared to have an election because?
FFS
nedrapier
Subscriber
The Brussels Strasbourg thing is ridiculous as well.
More or less ridiculous than keeping our Parliament in the SE corner of the country in a rickety old building and spending £4.5bn to stop it falling down?
Equally ridiculous, I think our parliament should be moved rather than rebuilt
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/houses-of-parliament-4bn-repair-bill/
FFS
Why do you think either are “scared”…? Who suggested that to you?
Could it be that neither want to hand Johnson the means to have a No Deal Brexit while parliament is closed for the election and its immediate aftermath?
^^ Spot on.
It's not about being a "chicken" (my God Boris, are you 9 years old?)
It's about NOT being dumb and pandering to Cummings agenda.
Bojo is just Cummings mouth piece.
Of course I know this Kelvin. I cant get my head round people who don't- ie lots of the QT crowd tonight.
If Labour are scared because they are behind in the polls then the SNP are scared why? because they are ahead in the polls? FFS
Why do you think either are “scared”…? Who suggested that to you?
Could it be that neither want to hand Johnson the means to have a No Deal Brexit while parliament is closed for the election and its immediate aftermath?
This X infinity
Fear of losing an election to these nutjobs who'll employ every dirty trick imaginable is a perfectly valid fear.
The SNP will, by all predictions, gain massively in a GE, but the huge risk is the Tories, either or alone or with the brexit party, gaining enough seats to have their "mandate"
It's not fear, it's common sense
because they are ahead in the polls? FFS
Because as we've seen, Scotland's voice has counted for nothing in these negotiations. More seats won't change that.
Actually, SNP having even more seats after the election (which they will have) could well make them the second most powerful party in the UK parliament, with no UK government possible without their support. It depends on how it all ends up hanging.
Sorry @ctk, I misunderstood your intentions. I should have guessed the “chicken” spin would be bouncing of you… and yes… maddening that so many people could be falling for it.
No worries I was unclear!
Its frustrating when such a disingenuous argument is left relatively unchallenged all over the media. How can you take anyone seriously who makes this argument? ie Kwasi Kwarteng on QT, he's ****ing shameless.
I think we must all retire to our Constituencies and prepare for Government...
We should all take a long look in our own personal crystal ball before deciding...
... it would be a brave man to predict with any certainty what that Government would look like.
Remaining is just so much easier.
Sure there is all the noise, but that would be there anyway.
The Leavers are so noisy.
They won't be less so even if it were this so, that so, or the other so.
They'll always be noisy, they always have been.
But there really aren't that many of them.
Let them make their noise.
And turn it down.
It will give them the lack of purpose that they can get from nowhere else.
Let's give them the conspiracy theory they need.
It matters not a jot how many seats the SNP get - they will be ignored in London as ever. Remember they had 50+ seats an election ago ( and I bet they get 50+ again next election)
( apart from getting the huge majority of scottish westminster seats again gives them a mandate to pursue independence - one of course they already have
A no deal brexit probably leaves the most people unhappy. A brexit-in-name-only probably the next.
Rory Stewart put it well on LBC yesterday. Remain = 50% people furious, Hard leave = 50% people furious, bodged in the middle compromise sort of deal = 100% a bit unhappy
Always better to have everyone a bit unhappy than 50% furious.
Always better to have everyone a bit unhappy than 50% furious.
Thats assuming this "middle compromise" doesnt leave everyone really pissed off. Which it stands a good chance of doing so.
Hard leave = 50% people furious
Probably worth checking that figure.
So Jeremy Corbyn is scared to have an election because he’ll lose
& SNP are scared to have an election because?
Labour are scared of losing for sure, but they're also scared of winning and being to blame for Brexit/Failing to Brexit on the 31st both of which are a vote loser.
SNP aren't scared of losing, but they are scared of being in a position where they have to prop up one of the two main parties like the Lib dems were with similar consequences. This is a great time to be in opposition and a terrible time to be in power.
The opposition parties are doing the right thing for their electoral chances but it's certainly nothing to do with fear of an early hard Brexit. There's no way Boris wants to hold an election in the chaos immediately after a hard Brexit so when he says he wants an election before the 31st he will obviously stick to it. In contrast an early hard Brexit would be good for all the opposition parties. The most difficult of issues would be closed with the Tory's getting 100pc of the blame and they could take over with the most divisive intractable problem behind them.
The opposition parties are doing the right thing for their electoral chances but it’s certainly nothing to do with fear of an early hard Brexit
Nah, if Corbyn agrees an early GE then remainders will punish labour, as will the union members who heavily oppose it
Remaining is just so much easier.
Sure there is all the noise, but that would be there anyway.
That's my take. Revoke Art 50. Remain.
As Thatcher said about another topic anyone who wants to Brexit after that can simply campaign in a GE, win a majority and take responsibility for doing it as a government.
50pc of people are going to be pissed off whatever we do, and a BINO fudge will mean 100pc of people will be pissed off, not 0pc.
SNP aren’t scared of losing, but they are scared of being in a position where they have to prop up one of the two main parties like the Lib dems were with similar consequences. This is a great time to be in opposition and a terrible time to be in power.
Utter nonsense
the SNP will not do any sort of a deal with the tories ever and the tribal hatred from scottish labour to the SNP and the SNPs position (long held) means the only possible labour / SNP deal is supply and confidence and even that is unlikely
The SNP would never get into the position the lib dems did because they are much more astute politically and would never go into coaltion
Finally the SNP want an election - because they will take back a load of seats and quite possibly wipe out the tories in scotland
Nah, if Corbyn agrees an early GE then remainders will punish labour,
Yup, and that's consistent with what I'm saying, this is all about votes and nothing to do with the non existent danger that Boris would wish to have an election in the chaos immediately after he'd "no-deal brexited."
Nah, if Corbyn agrees an early GE then remainders will punish labour,
Why when labour policy is a second referendum under all circumstances?
The SNP would never get into the position the lib dems did because they are much more astute politically and would never go into coaltion
Then they'd be in the impossible position of campaign for seats when they openly don't want power. I agree they don't want power, but it's impossible to openly acknowledge that as the Lib Dems found when fate tapped them on the shoulder.
More importantly their inaction would also be handing some kind of power to one of the two main parties which in effect is the same thing as supporting a party.
They can't leave the state in limbo, and there's no reason another election would produce a different result.
The SNP could be forced into some kind of power just as the liberals were and they'd suffer exactly the same fate. I'd go further, the way the numbers are, it's actually quite likely.
Nonsense - the SNP would be under no pressure to go into power with anyone and its long stated that they will not.
They might agree supply and confidence or simply not to vote down a labour queens speech. SNP will vote down any tory Queens speech Under no circumstances will there aver be a labour / SNP coalition.
Its likely they will hold the balance of power - but that does not oblige them to go into coalition. Minority governments? That what would happen possibly with SNP support but no formal deal above S&C - and they will extract a price for even doing that.
Why when labour policy is a second referendum under all circumstances?
Because many remainers have about the same level of intelligence on this issue as the brexiteers. They vote emotionally, rather than with their brains, and are as easily influenced by the rightwing media as leavers are. It's tragic really.
I must admit I'm refreshing my live news feeds a lot in the hope of a fresh cabinet resignation. Hancock, Morgan, Rudd, buckland come on!! Surely the tobacco/oil/gas/pharmaceutical industries have a few consultancy roles they can offer them. Here's hoping they are the Linda kasabian's of the Brexit cult
I must admit I’m refreshing my live news feeds a lot
I'm not.
It's becoming increasingly difficult to witness a middle aged man struggling to cope with electile dysfunction.
It's humiliating when you can no longer get your poll to perform adequately....
Why when labour policy is a second referendum under all circumstances?
Well, they have to win the election, and while this week's events I would imagine make this more likely than it was, it's still far from a given.
Johnson may have sacked off a bunch of MPs, but I wonder how many of those are in constituencys (sp?) where somone a bit more 'on message' can just be parachuted in and sweep to victory.
For somone who complains about being called names daz, you're not shy of throwing a few slights about yourself, are you?
If moderate tories quit, and there is an election soon, they will by replaced be head bangers.
Now IMO this is the death rattle of the tories, the worry is how much damage will be caused before the final echoes cease. As in the US it will probably take a generation or more for thinking and considered politicians to put right the damage done by the current political hooligans (and that is even if we don't no deal brexit). And lets face it, that depends on getting better quality of politics from here on in.
For somone who complains about being called names daz, you’re not shy of throwing a few slights about yourself, are you?
But it's different when he does it, he is justified and righteous, everyone else is just wrong and mean spirited.
you’re not shy of throwing a few slights about yourself, are you?
What names did I call anyone there?
He didn't claim you were name calling, so your diversionary tactic doesn't work. What you did do is make the statement below, where you make the same sort of sneering broad brush statements you like to complain about when they are directed at you.
Because many remainers have about the same level of intelligence on this issue as the brexiteers. They vote emotionally, rather than with their brains, and are as easily influenced by the rightwing media as leavers are. It’s tragic really.
You do it constantly, far more than most, but then try and claim the high ground of victimhood. I think you might have even fooled a few people with your tactic a long time ago, but everyone is wise to it now and you just embarrass yourself by constantly repeating it.
"Scared"? That's infantile school playground talk. It's simply a case of ensuring you stand the best chance of getting the result you want and I agree with those who say it is better to leave Johnson and the far right to stew in their own mess for a while before taking them on.
where you make the same sort of sneering broad brush statements
Really? When remainers refuse to vote for the only party which has a chance of governing on a 2nd referendum position, then I think that clearly demonstrates they're not thinking very rationally. That's their right of course, and I'm not suggesting for a second they shouldn't, but it's very similar to people voting for brexit even though it's going to massively harm them.
Don't tar us with your big fat extra wide non-rational brush.
I'll likely vote Labour. Their stated manifesto seems like it will be referendum on any Brexit, and absolutely not no-deal, as they seem to be playing it now. It really doesn't matter to me if they want to fiddle a couple of red unicorns into their slightly tweaked version of the May deal. Then worst case, a soggy Brexit, and best case, remain.
You're just plain wrong about the respective intelligence of leavers and remainers. Dazh:
https://www.theweek.co.uk/89378/fact-check-did-uk-s-better-educated-vote-remain
Leavers are less well educatated.
Don't vote for a party offering the (remote) possibility of a referendum when you can vote for a party with remain and revoking Art.50 as policy. That's logical and rational. And as you only have one vote and no parliamentary action has ever been won by one vote logic says you vote for exactly what you want and never tactically for the least bad.
Corbyn wants Brexit as much as ever and will lie and fudge just as much as Johnson to achieve his own vision of Brexit when in power.
Really?
Yes
Really
There is a clear danger that Johnson could manipulate the eec tiuon process to stop parliament blocking no deal and to allow us to fall out on the 31st. this is why its right that the opposition parties should control the timing of this and ensure another election is not until the extension has been requested
Thornberry:
The problem that we have is that the motion that the government has put before, and it looks like will put again, is a motion under the Fixed-term Parliament Act under clauses 2 (7) and 3 of the Fixed-term Parliament Act, if we vote to have a general election, then no matter what it is that Boris Johnson promises, it is up to him to advise the Queen when the general election should be. And given that he has shown himself to be a manifest liar, and someone who has said that he will die in a ditch rather than stop no deal, and indeed his adviser, [Dominic] Cummings, has been swearing and shouting at MPs saying they are leaving on 31 [October] no matter what, our first priority has to be that we must stop no deal and we must make sure that that is going to happen.
this is why its right that the opposition parties should control the timing of this and ensure another election is not until the extension has been requested
Yep. Force Johnson to either fail at Brexit or resign, which will hand a chunk of their support back to the Brexit party and might let Labour in, if not with a majority.
Because many remainers have about the same level of intelligence on this issue as the brexiteers.
How about getting the message to voters, rather than expecting them to sit a test.
The absolute state of this, what has politics become?
https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1169928730652733440
Hardly scientific I know but I'm getting worried that 75%+ of people the BBC News ask respond "just leave now" regardless of how they originally voted. I'm all for Brexit getting settled one way or another sooner rather than later but I despair if a GE or 2nd referendum outcome would be more determined by people being fed up of the whole mess rather than actually caring about the consequences of what they're voting for.
The absolute state of this, what has politics become?
Infantile. How many people will see this and just come to the conclusion that we’d be better off handing power over to the adults, any adults, instead of supporting the Conservatives?
Hardly scientific I know
You could have stopped there.
There is no realistic way forward without a public vote, but don’t worry, it’s not just people in BBC vox pops and shouty Question Time audience members who get to vote.
til, the commentators on that aren't exactly falling over themselves to congratulate the conservatives on a deft visual jibe well delivered.
my particular favourite is "You're about as good at social media as Boris Johnson is at prime ministering."
The absolute state of this, what has politics become?
Well, I just read "Conservative Party considering a vote of no confidence in itself" and I genuinely don't know if it's satire or news.
I've just realised the irony of them tweeting KFC. A company that is well aware of the dangers of disrupting your supply chain.
We’re done. As a country. As a Union. An uninformed and squabbling electorate. A dysfunctional government with no functional alternative. Done. Cooked. Eaten. Regurgitated. Now reduced to arguing over the vomit.
Next step in this globally historical groundhog day is for the ‘traitor’ jibes to begin.
Bargain booze establishments, tabloids and ‘talk radio’ style jocks will do well out of this be doing well out of this. Feeding the hearts and minds. So what next? What to do?
The absolute state of this, what has politics become?
Even more depressing when you realise that it 'works'.
'We' as a society should be insulted (actually we should be furious) that 'we' are considered ripe for such tactics.
Right now is Cummings looking like the tactical genius he’s cracked up to be? Blojos strategy looks to be in tatters 👍👍👍. Perhaps he’ll declare no confidence in himself?
You’re just plain wrong about the respective intelligence of leavers and remainers. Dazh:
Conflation city ... you are citing a 'poll' from yougov about education, not intelligence.
Daz didn't say anything about education.
^^^^
thats not even close to the worst tweet youll see today....
https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/1169850394375098368
The absolute state of this, what has politics become?
Disgraceful and reminded me of:
I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left. -Mrs T
Yep. Force Johnson to either fail at Brexit or resign, which will hand a chunk of their support back to the Brexit party and might let Labour in, if not with a majority.
Yup that's the plan, and a perfectly reasonable one. I just wish they wouldn't insult everyone intelligence with a implausible "We think Boris will change the date to do a hard Brexit at the worst possible time for him" nonsense.
It's not an area I know much about, but the very fact that they're so blatantly screaming "chicken" at Corbyn clearly to goad him into capitulating is all I need to know that he was absolutely right not to agree.
Don’t vote for a party offering the (remote) possibility of a referendum when you can vote for a party with remain and revoking Art.50 as policy.
Because, we've seen this movie before, haven't we. Mass tactical voting in the GE to shut out the Tories involved many people holding their noses and voting for Labour, spun conclusion "80% of people voted for pro-brexit parties."
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. And this is our proud "democracy"?
Now IMO this is the death rattle of the tories
I think that's likely, but they *could* win one more election thanks to momentum which begs the question depending on the polls over the next five years would they change to a PR system, perhaps to keep the Lib dems on board in some arrangement and to scupper Labour in future and also ensure that although they become a minority party in future they don't totally evaporate.
Well, I just read “Conservative Party considering a vote of no confidence in itself” and I genuinely don’t know if it’s satire or news.
Seemed inevitable to me, there's no other way for them to quit and they need to. Deffo the least worst option, if it works.
Blojos strategy looks to be in tatters
Unless he wins an election in which case he'll have 5 years and all his rebels are gone. Problem is at the end of five years he'll have a 'brexit' party which was in power party due votes Brexiteers from other parties who will go straight back to their previous party.
...and that assumes he wins which nobody would bet the ranch on.
Robert Peston
@Peston
Opposition parties will again vote against general election on Monday. The debate between leaders of Labour, SNP, LibDems, Plaid and Greens is whether to vote for election a day or two after Queen’s Speech on Oct 14 or day or three after EU summit on 17-18 October. Either way, it is all about making sure @BorisJohnson either goes to Brussels to beg for a Brexit delay or resigns to allow a temporary government of national unity AND means the general election would be in November (mid to late). How does Johnson escape this trap?
Got him? Has he been outplayed? Maybe thats why his appearance in Aberdeenshire was so shambolic - he has realised he has blown it 🙂
Glass too full?
The morning the result came out I thought there's no way this will ever happen. I still don't, although until this week I've felt less and less confident in thinking that.
Why would any part of the opposition to this right-wing cabal be in any hurry for a GE? This mess is entirely of the Tories' own making, anyone else coming into government would immediately own it. This is very different from resisting a GE because you're happy with the incumbents or afraid you might lose.
Right now the Tory party is tearing itself apart. All they have to focus on is this giant mess they've created. A split between (the term is very relative!) 'moderates' and the rest isn't inconceivable, these people like power after all. That wouldn't be happening were they to find themselves in opposition, there they'd have the opportunity to regroup under a banner they can unite around. The banner currently flying is far more divisive for them than it is for any of the opposition parties. Of those, everyone bar Labour is clear on a single party position; it's entirely understandable to me that Labour isn't - the Labour party is a broader church than the rest of the opposition (I mean that purely quantitatively, I don't vote Labour) so views on Brexit are bound to be more disparate - the difference is, until the Tories brought it up and shoved it in front of everyone, membership of the EU wasn't such a big deal for Labour supporters.
Keep them on the hot seat for a while yet I reckon!
Also, we've heard little detail on the likely end product of the Benn amendment. The government may well be legally compelled to seek a further A50 extension, but how likely are the other EU member states to grant this? And what happens if they don't?
I thought QT was great last night! All the Brexiteers had to offer was mansplaining, empty soundbites and whataboutery. Apart from when he interrupted the radio presenter guy, I thought Ian Blackford did pretty well, he didn't allow himself to be drawn into bickering and said what he needed to say. The remain side of the argument should now be stressing that calling the whole shitshow off and revoking A50 is the quickest way to "make it all stop", which is undoubtedly what a sizeable chunk of the electorate now wants.
Quentin Letts is neither stupid nor ill-informed.
Think about that for a second or two.
Then consider the sheer malevolent cynicism that lay behind that tweet.
Got him? Has he been outplayed?
Whilst it's right to be wary, I get a bit sick of the 'Cummings has a plan, he's gamed it all' view. Looking at the facts, Cummings may well be clever, but he's a loose cannon, prone to tantrums and thinks all you have to do is create chaos to succeed. Johnson has spent an entire career winging it, and falling back on his jocular image to paper over the obvious absence of anything under the surface. The whole edifice is crumbling now in the face of an organised, determined for now united front rallied against them. My bet is that they're not half as clever as people give them credit for, and as long as the opposition parties don't start fighting each other, the tories will soon be history.
And another point, is it at all possible that following the recent detente between labour and the libdems, that maybe Swinson would now accept an interim govt led by Corbyn if it is requried?
Keep them on the hot seat for a while yet I reckon!
I'm strongly coming to this conclusion now too. The next potential split is between the ERG and Johnson when he inevitably starts dampening his enthusiasm for no deal. The longer he's in post the more he will be worn down by the civil service. The aim of the opposition parties should be splinter them into factions who will take votes off each other in an election.
Right now the Tory party is tearing itself apart.
Yes, that is inevitable as they have Europhile amongst them that will not agree with the direction PM BoJo is heading.
Same will go to Labour later, if they get into power which is a big if, as their politicians are rather distance from their voters in the North (Not Scotland), whether this will cause the same split in their party remains to be seen but the likelihood is high.
And another point, is it at all possible that following the recent detente between labour and the libdems, that maybe Swinson would now accept an interim govt led by Corbyn if it is requried?
If she held the balance of power she'd have to in some from for the same reasons that they had to before. However the Lib Dems aren't going to win *that* many seats, my bet is the SNP will be in the spot light with the nightmare of propping up an unpopular Govt (Blue or red) or forcing the UK to hold an endless series of inconclusive elections. (And that would be bad for the SNP as well. Their voters would say "I keep voting for you, and you keep refusing power.")
The next potential split is between the ERG and Johnson when he inevitably starts dampening his enthusiasm for no deal.
Or he loses more of those MPs in his party currently quiet but worried about No Deal. At some point his game of “I want a deal” and simultaneously, “we should leave without a deal” will end, and he’ll have to pick one of those positions if he’s to be the man who takes the UK out of the EU. He can’t take all his MPs who still have the whip with him, whichever he choses… which is why he’s desperate to try and fix it so that when he makes that call MPs are kept out of the decision making/ratifying process.
Out of Breath
All the snp have to do is vote for a corbyn queens speech / agree supply and confidence. Labour runs a minority government so SNP effectively get a veto power. Anytime the tories want to make something a confidence vote they can - assuming labour have not upset the snp too much then the snp will vote with the labour government. Fixed term parliaments. Its not in the SNPs interest to collapse things and on a left / right spectrum there really is not a fag paper between them. The SNP would not have any interest in taking any cabinet seats bar perhaps scottish office but I would be suprised at even that.
Depends to a great extent on how the numbers add up how any SP arrangements with labour would work but if they are the largest party they form a government and challenge the other parties to vote down a queens speech.
Never would the snp vote for a tory government queen speech
All the snp have to do is vote for a corbyn queens speech / agree supply and confidence. Labour runs a minority government so SNP effectively get a veto power. Anytime the tories want to make something a confidence vote they can – assuming labour have not upset the snp too much then the snp will vote with the labour government.
Yes, as I say, they could end up propping up an unpopular government, they don't want to, but when you think it through for the small parties it's sometimes impossible to avoid. Historically the chances were slim. In this day and age where the increase in small parties make decent majorities very difficult for the two big parties it's become a likelihood. It used to be a risk for the Lib Dems, but it could be they end up with so few seats they're no longer in the frame.
There is a growing section of the Scottish independence movement that is increasingly disappointed at the amount of energy the SNP are focusing on Brexit and who would likely think "why are we choosing which colour of government the English get rather than leaving them to get on with it".
why are we choosing which colour of government the English get rather than leaving them to get on with it
Seems a bit of a daft attitude. Why wouldn't you participate, if you can get what you want as part of the bargain? No Westminster party is going to agree to Indyref2 unless Sturgeon has some kind of electoral leverage and actively uses it.
Hence a number of articles/commentators putting out the "trust Nicola she knows what she is doing" message.