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No chance of a Labour LibDem electoral pact.
The pacts will happen post election. I think for the remain ( or 2nd ref ) parties the order is:
Labour plus SNP, then green/PC, then LibDems. But I wouldn't see any unity beyond a 2nd ref. So 2nd ref, win or lose we would be rapidly in GE territory again
Thanks for contributing @davidbelstein, please do so again. Ignore the troll comments.
+1
AFAIC davidbelstein's comments are as welcome as everyone else's. I see no reason to try to silence people with different views to mine, quite the opposite alternative views should be welcome.
A 2nd ref would have to include how we want to leave or we're in the same mess
Mays deal, EEA/Norway (I'm sure farage would agree😉) /No deal/Remain*
Otherwise the last 3 years are repeated for a decade as we work out our future rekationship- which is the tricky part, withdrawal agreement was the easy bit !
* I know that splits the leave vote, but it's the honest conversation the brexiteers deliberately chose not to have with the electorate, & it's why they won, but it's also why what followed was chaos
re GE prospects
I've had a quick look at marginal seats: so if Labour take all marginals (1000 votes behind at 2017 GE) from torys they gain say 20, LD take their marginals (1000 seats) and gain 4 off torys
and assume SNP take over Scotland then the composition is Labour - 267, LB - 19 (=286) and tories are on 250, SNP on 50. A lab/LD/SNP coaltion is mixing oil and water but would have a decent working majority.
This is obviously a quick look so shoot me down by all means, Lib Dems are on course for a lot more seats but Im surprised that they don't have that more knife edge marginals - but i spose thats the balance of power in 2017 when they were up shit creek
Ive discounted the deselected 21 tories and all independents, and Brexit party will of course be a GE force and this doesn't take into account tactical voting on both sides of Brexit.
The pacts will happen post election.
Well… if the opposition parties (south of the border) think that they can treat this as just another election, and sort out the niceties of trying to form an alternative to a Conservative Brexit government AFTER the FPTP magic has denied them the numbers, then we are screwed.
It’s a bizarre electoral system currently. The FTP Act means a minority powerless government can’t even throw in the towel and call an election without the permission of the opposition, who might be inclined to keep them in place to own their mess as long as it wants.
Yes, in hindsight a badly thought out piece of legislation, although the current situation is a bit of an edge case.
Needs to be repealed as soon as the next government take over. (Although the new administration probably won't do so if they have a slim majority as they likely will have.)
... there are Lab marginals in very leave seats that may well go Tory - east mids/ s Yorks in particular.
The flip side is the metropolitan Tory seats may go LibDem
But stuff will change a lot through the campaign period
A lab/LD/SNP coaltion is mixing oil and water but would have a decent working majority.
If they wanted to do that they could do so today without an election at all and be in power for the next 3 years.
In spite of the seriousness of the situation they don't want to step up to the plate.
The one thing that it’s been good to see over the past couple of days in Parliament is some genuine outrage and real passion at what Johnson and Cummings are up too, from both sides of the house.
Best exemplified, as always, by Jess Phillips
https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1169337961420337154?s=21
fingerbang I do not expect the lib dems to gain many if any seats. I expect a hung parliament
I do wish folk will stop talking about a SNP / labour deal - very unlikely given the tribal hatred for the SNP from scottish labour and also given the SNPs position. Supply and confidence in return for second scottish ref maybe. Nothing more than that. Certainly no coalition or SNP ministers
If a snap election is called around mid October, I'm a registered voter but will be out the country with work, how will I vote? I can't seem to find anything on line and it would seem I'm too late to register for a postal vote.
Unless you have a suggestion for just ‘getting it done’ that no one has yet thought of
Educator had a good list for starters.
You mean the list of stuff in his most recent post? It's not a list of solutions, it's a list of bad things that will seriously damage the economy. And before you shrug your shoulders and say 'who cares?' the economy is what employs everyone in the UK including presumably you, and it's also where our goverment's money comes from. So there'll be fewer jobs AND things will become more expensive, which will mean millions more people in poverty, the poor, vulnerable, the simply sick and even those with the audacity to be young and requiring an education will get an even shittier deal than they already have.
These are bad things. You do not want them to happen. I sure as hell don't want them to happen because of YOUR ideology.
Labours election campaign video
Good point there, just because you don't want no deal, doesn't mean you don't want Brexit.
As to how the boisterous negotiations are going:
https://twitter.com/PascalDePolla/status/1169377479510974464
… there are Lab marginals in very leave seats that may well go Tory – east mids/ s Yorks in particular.
The flip side is the metropolitan Tory seats may go LibDem
But stuff will change a lot through the campaign period
Anything could happen.
I think it will come down to Brexit, of course, but it will be won by the side who can get their shit together. Boris has become so Brexity that UKIP / Brexit Party cease to matter, so they might not even bother campaigning in certain areas to help them out to campaign in more Labour areas to try to steal votes away from labour.
The libs are going to come out fighting hard, not since 2010 have they had such momentum, but it's FPTP- wouldn't it be a shame if dozens of areas end up 30% lib 30% labour and 40% Tory.
Anyone who thinks the decision on an early election is easy or thinks hanging on to watch Boris suffer a death of a thousand cuts is a good idea should read the following which has just been posted on the Guardian live blog. It's not simple, and there is an extreme risk that the longer Boris plays the people vs parliament tune the stronger he will get. Look at it this way, he's got the labour party talking about nothing other than brexit, while he talks about the stuff labour is stronger on.
"[A senior government minister] also predicted the opposition parties are playing straight into [Dominic] Cummings’ hands — and that the Tories are now on course to win a snap election. “I’ve seen the numbers from CCHQ, it really is black and white,” they said. “People want it done. They love it when we talk about schools, hospitals and police; they love it when we talk about broadband; they hate it when we talk about Brexit — and these people have just voted to talk more about Brexit. Nobody wants to spend three, six months rowing about Brexit.” To repeat, this may well prove to be the case."
Boris has become so Brexity that UKIP / Brexit Party cease to matter
If you want to be certain of remain: vote Lib Dem, Plaid, SNP
If you want to be certain of Brexit: vote Brexit party
If you want years more of uncertainty and fudges: vote Labour or Conservative.
I'm watching from afar and if I've understood that I'm sure UK voters have. The Brexit party is not to be underestimated.
And if we think Blustering Bus Bollocks Blond Brexit Boris was bad.
Just try and imagine the Farage Farce that could be.
If you want 10 more years of Brexit negotiations and talking about them, support Brexit (deal or no deal).
If you want to stop talking about Brexit, support revoke (reform will always happen).
👇 See Kelvin’s post below 👇
…and these people have just voted to talk more about Brexit. Nobody wants to spend three, six months rowing about Brexit.
Then it is up to all decent people to make it clear that there is no “get it done and out of the way” option at all. It does not exit. It is a lie. A No Deal Brexit means a decade of hard politics dominated by our changing relationship with Europe and the world, and an ever changing chaotic regime for people and businesses.
If you want years more of uncertainty and fudges: vote Labour or Conservative.
Apart from Labour are offering the most sensible solution currently. Hold a referendum on remain vs another option.
The libdem revoke option is crap. It would fuel the anger of people claiming not to be represented and give johnson and his other burn the uk down group ammo.
With the referendum we get a choice between the two with no confusion around other policies.
Admittedly getting the brexiteers to come up with a sensible alternative option will be an arse.
Then it is up to all decent people to make it clear that there is no “get it done and out of the way” option at all
Since the brexiteers like Churchill perhaps should start trying his "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning" line on them and see if it sinks in.
Apart from Labour are offering the most sensible solution currently.
It’s a fudge still. I’m voting for it though. The non-Conservatives must be stopped, and the people must be given the chance to cancel Brexit, bin this boondoggle and free the UK from its damaging clutches.
Jo Johnson, Fallon, the rebels, theres a lot of 'safe' tory seats up for grabs
farage must be twitching in anticipation
farage must be twitching in anticipation
The Russian troll farms and dark money advertisers certainly are.
Educator had a good list for starters
Just to be 100% clear, you think this list is the best way to 'get it done?
Setting up frontier checks including NI one way or another, more paperwork at borders and delays.
The need for a passport for Europeans, tourism from the EU takes a hit
The city loses its banking passport, Uk banks lose the majority of their internatinal business
Uk manufacturing becomes unatractive except for the domestic market
The pound crashes properly, interst rates are raised to prop up the pound and the housing market crashes
Economically active EU citizens in the UK realise they’re not earning enough to qualify for residence, their wages are worth less and they’re not wanted. They leave and can’t be replaced as UK citizens don’t have the skills or work attitude.
As for this..
Tpbiker – your comments are not helping a calm, reasoned debate. Name calling, condescending responses don’t engage anyone, people just get their preconceptions of “arrogant know it all remoaners” reinforced and the argument becomes even more polarised. Also this place becomes even more of an echo chamber if every dissenting view is bullied away – at least chewy is thick skinned enough to keep coming back, even if he doesn’t always offer the most reasoned comments.
You can't have a reasoned debate with people who think that the list above is the way to go. I'll call them stupid because that's what they are. I have no inclination to pander to fools who are prepared to screw myself and future generations over for a no deal.
I'm not saying all leavers are stupid, the benefits of a negotiated exit can be argued, albeit I don't agree with them . But saying 'just get it' done shows no understanding of the issues at hand..and if you can't understand even the basic issues after 3 years of non stop arguing, then you are, in my book, stupid.
And people think the EU is good??
Ah, the "why do you love the EU so much?" straw man.
The thing is, whether the EU is "good" or not doesn't really matter. If the EU is "bad" then that may be a reason to want to leave, but the crux is that even if it were the most evil organisation in the world "just leaving" is not a great idea.
Everything else aside, we have spent 40 years integrating (voluntarily) with the EU, offloading admin so we don't have to do it, replacing UK deals (trade and otherwise) with EU ones (which are better than the ones we had) and so forth. If we "just leave" then all that ends, overnight. And as I've said before, sure, we could probably replace all that, but that would involve negotations, or "deals" if you like, and would take years.
If you like analogies: having a tumor is bad, but cutting it out yourself with a rusty breadknife would be worse, almost certainly fatal. If it must be removed then you need surgeons in place, anaesthesiologists, nurses, beds, operating tools, sterile areas...
AFAIC davidbelstein’s comments are as welcome as everyone else’s. I see no reason to try to silence people with different views to mine, quite the opposite alternative views should be welcome.
Agreed. Living in an echo chamber isn't desireable. Play nicely, people.
Sticking your head round the door of an echo chamber and going "JFDI!!!!" isn't offering an alternative view.
If you like analogies:
Oooh! Love an analogy.
The referendum was like a choice between two platters of food.
The first one contained a sandwich, filled with ingredients from all over Europe. It's taken us 40 years to refine the recipe for making this sandwich but it's undoubtedly nutritious and we've all been eating the same sandwich for decades.
Some people don't like some of the ingredients, some are bored of eating the same sandwich, some just hate sandwiches on general principle.
The other platter is covered by a huge, ornate polished, silver cloche. It's never actually been lifted but we've been assured that whatever is underneath is delicious and there's enough for everyone and it smells heavenly.
Lots of people voted to see what was underneath but, it turns out, nobody is able to lift it without help from the European sandwich makers.
Three years later, we're still wondering but the cloche is now dented and tarnished and there's a distinct whiff of shite emanating from underneath it. That doesn't deter those who still believe in their heart of hearts that it's still a roast beef dinner.
I don't think it is.
I'd just like a sandwich.
Are you going to answer my question on how the current situation tallies with your original assertation that you wanted a Norway style deal?
I’ll call them stupid because that’s what they are.
Don't. It is worse than useless. It hardens their position. You cannot get through to someone by insulting them. Even if you think it, don't say it, otherwise you are part of the problem we have which is one of tribalism and irreconciliation.
Oooh! Love an analogy.
The referendum was like a choice between two platters of food.
The first one contained a sandwich, filled with ingredients from all over Europe. It’s taken us 40 years to refine the recipe for making this sandwich but it’s undoubtedly nutritious and we’ve all been eating the same sandwich for decades.
Some people don’t like some of the ingredients, some are bored of eating the same sandwich, some just hate sandwiches on general principle.
The other platter is covered by a huge, ornate polished, silver cloche. It’s never actually been lifted but we’ve been assured that whatever is underneath is delicious and there’s enough for everyone and it smells heavenly.
Lots of people voted to see what was underneath but, it turns out, nobody is able to lift it without help from the European sandwich makers.
Three years later, we’re still wondering but the cloche is now dented and tarnished and there’s a distinct whiff of shite emanating from underneath it. That doesn’t deter those who still believe in their heart of hearts that it’s still a roast beef dinner.
I don’t think it is.
I’d just like a sandwich.
Or, as the angry old man's favourite mouthpiece (Clarkson) said it, voting Leave was like voting for a 16" Penis.
Dave is a manager at a branch of Tesco. He's been there a while, and managed to make it onto the board of directors.
One day, Dave decides he's had enough of Tesco telling him what to do (despite having been on the board and making executive decisions for them for the last 40 years) and decides he wants to go it alone. After all, he used to run a corner shop and he did OK.
So he rings up the CEO, tells him to **** off, and rebrands as Dave's Mini-Mart.
Then suddenly he realises, he doesn't have a distributor. Tesco used to do all the ordering. So he rings round a few, gets a couple of offers but finds that, as a sole trader, the rates he's getting are much higher than they were for an International chain. "Oh well," he thinks, "it's a price worth paying to be able to deal with who I like."
Month end comes around, he has to file his taxes and.. wait, he doesn't have an accountant. Tesco used to do all the paperwork, and he doesn't understand any of this himself. What to do?
Dave decides to specialise in local produce, buying food in from a local farm, and whilst some of the locals are keen on this they still want to buy lots of other things too. Eventually though, most of his old customers have decided that they still want to shop at Tesco. The prices are much cheaper and they've got a better selection, and besides, that's where they've always shopped, they've got Clubcards and everything. It seems Dave's home-made jam is popular but not enough to keep the business afloat.
Despondent and broke, Dave rings up his old mates at Tesco head office. "Sure, we'd love to have you back," they say, "you were a good worker and a great guy. We've got an opening for a shop assistant, how does minimum wage sound?"
Sticking your head round the door of an echo chamber and going “JFDI!!!!” isn’t offering an alternative view.
Of course it is. For better or worse the politicians got us into this mess and it’s not unreasonable to expect them to get us out of it, however difficult it is or whatever their excuses are. The impatience of the people who shout “get on with it” is driven from this simple fact.
Ultimately I can't see any GE result returning anything other than the large majority of seats being Tory and Labour. I think that FPTP and hardening Brexit position in Tories will mean next to no seats for Brexit Party
Clearly SNP will own Scotland. LibDems will make gains, but I'd be really surprised to see them getting anything more than 20 seats nationally
The real battles are Tory versus Labour and a big impact of LibDems and Brexit Party gaining support will be how many votes they take off the main two parties in blue/red marginals
According to the ft via h&l website the EU has enough.
Sounds like on yer bike time - auf deinem Fahrrad - sur votre vélo
https://www.hl.co.uk/news/2019/9/5/how-europe-views-the-brexit-endgame
I think that FPTP and hardening Brexit position in Tories will mean next to no seats for Brexit Party
That is where the timing is key. After October 31st the "just get on with it" Brexiters will have had enough of Johnson as he missed the date and vote for the Brexit Party who due to their skills and experience with international politics will get it all sorted out in 10 minutes.
If a snap election is called around mid October, I’m a registered voter but will be out the country with work, how will I vote? I can’t seem to find anything on line and it would seem I’m too late to register for a postal vote.
Register for a Postal vote now. If you are around you can drop it in to a polling station, if not you can post it. You're local polling officer might be happy to just receive an emailed scan of your signed application to vote by post - mine was. Do nothing and you'll definitely not get a vote.
According to the ft via h&l website the EU has enough.
Sounds like on yer bike time – auf deinem Fahrrad – sur votre vélo
https://www.hl.co.uk/news/2019/9/5/how-europe-views-the-brexit-endgame/blockquote >Well, that's just about the most depressing thing I've read in months.
It hardens their position
so what? It won't make their food/medicine shortages any more easy to bear will it? How ill those people who voted leave show up on the unemployment statistics? The same, they'll show up the same.
If a snap election is called around mid October, I’m a registered voter but will be out the country with work, how will I vote? I can’t seem to find anything on line and it would seem I’m too late to register for a postal vote.
Register for a proxy vote. Your local council will have info on their website for this
Well, that’s just about the most depressing thing I’ve read in months.
I've long been wondering when the EU would get to that stage... 🙁
Well, that’s just about the most depressing thing I’ve read in months.
Not great is it.
A lot of it is unsurprising. The EU doesn't depend on us. They won't be hit particularly hard. They're already ready for Britain to GTFO, in fact they're already operating as if we had done.
The bit that is really bad is that most of the EU now doesn't even want us to remain. We're a poisonous wart that they'd like removed.
I've gotten lost with all the twists and turns over the last few days. What's the thinking behind not calling a VONC and forming a new government now? Surely they have the numbers.
It seems insane to me that, with the opposition parties united in their claimed desire to avert no deal, they don't call a VONC and form a government with the sole purpose of blocking no deal and then calling an election.
If we accept freedom of movement do all the problems go away?
All dumbojo needs to do is say that he's wangled a deal where we can kick out eu nationals that can't support themselves after 60 days and he would be carried aloft like the messiah.
The impatience of the people who shout “get on with it” is driven from this simple fact.
They are trying to though, the fact it's not moving or even going well isn't reason to blame the politicans though, and especially not for simply not bothering, it's because it's frigging impossible to do without totally screwing up the country.
It seems insane to me that, with the opposition parties united in their claimed desire to avert no deal, they don’t call a VONC and form a government with the sole purpose of blocking no deal and then calling an election.
In fairness, they've only been back in Westminster for 48 hours, thanks to Bojos planed suspension of parliament they had 4 days to pass something through the Commons for 2 readings and the Lords.
I'd bet there have been many calls and meetings between the Rebel Alliance about VONC, but priority No1 is stopping no-deal.
I’d bet there have been many calls and meetings between the Rebel Alliance about VONC, but priority No1 is stopping no-deal.
But they have the numbers to form a government now that could easily pass whatever legislation it needs to block no deal, doesn't it?
Magic, innit?
Mind you, the red top comic books' MO has always been to take the p*ss out of whatever target will sell the most rags.
But they have the numbers to form a government now that could easily pass whatever legislation it needs to block no deal, doesn’t it?
They didn't need to be in government to do that.
As an aside, weren’t Dave’s memoirs due to be published this month?
The publisher probably told him he’s best leaving that for a bit. Maybe a decade or so.
Mr Rees-Mogg said: "We all have in our families disagreement over an issue that is of fundamental importance to us all.
"That is why it is right to put it back to a general election so they can decide."
So, the people need to decide in a General Election (that conveniently the Tories might win) but not in a second referendum?
****'s sake Mogg.
So, the people need to decide in a General Election (that conveniently the Tories might win) but not in a second referendum?
****’s sake Mogg.
Of course, referendums are non-binding and advisory innit.
As an aside, weren’t Dave’s memoirs due to be published this month?
On the 19th. So be careful going near bookstores on that day to avoid getting crushed in the rush.
So, the people need to decide in a General Election (that conveniently the Tories might win) but not in a second referendum?
Yes, because that is right and proper. And a referendum isn't. Oh, er, hang on.
Have you noticed how much he uses the words right and proper?
Makes it sound like everything is being done according to some ancient royally ensconced system. Like the Queen's own laws, or something.
And in the background, he's earned £7mil from shorting the pound in advance knowledge of political events. Nothing to see there.
Are you going to answer my question on how the current situation tallies with your original assertation that you wanted a Norway style deal?
I’d like to know this as well @DavidBelstein. Which is more like a Norway style deal (or even what surveys showed that most Leave voters wanted at the time of the referendum… part of the common/single market but not involved in ever increasing political unification of the EU)…?
a) No Deal… with no imminent trade deal in the pipeline and no transition period that keeps us in the Single Market while we seek a trade deal.
b) Our current deal with the EU that lets us set the rules of the Single Market, and stay out of the Euro, out of Schengen, out of closer union, allowing us to have separate UK+Ireland arrangements, exemption from EU fiscal rules … etc etc
Yes, because that is right and proper. And a referendum isn’t. Oh, er, hang on.
We've had the referendum and it delivered a result. The GE would be to provide the government with a mandate to carry on as they are. Or not if they lost, then someone else gets to have a go. That's how democracy works isn't it ?
And if we end up with more MPs who support us having a referendum than those that don’t? That’s how democracy works isn’t it?
- A50 extension ‘till January.
- Election during the extension.
- Next government can act as it sees fit as regards Brexit, if the majority of MPs support it.
- That could include seeking further updated advice from the public in another referendum.
The GE would be to provide the government with a mandate to carry on as they are.
This. Just like in 2015 when people voted for Referendum v.1, if there is to be a v.2 then they people need to vote for it via a GE if it's to have any legitimacy. There will be a clear choice, no deal under the tory nutters, or a referendum under labour and whoever supports them. Then we'll find out how 3 years of old people dying and young people turning 18 will have changed the numbers.
Just call for a GE to let the people decide.
All political parties can then come up with their manifesto/slogan/whatever to let the people decide after all the politicians have failed in their "1st" attempt (can't remember how many attempts now but just called 1st attempt since it is related to the referendum). 🤔
I live in a blue/red marginal with Lib-Dems distant 3rd (20,000 votes distant). Labour will simply not win if Labour people switch to LibDem.
I'm a LibDem voter but if my constituency was a blue/red marginal I would definitely be voting Labour as the best way of reducing conservative seats.
Corbyn needs to be very careful accepting a GE too soon- will blow up in his face
his best bet will be after the 31st
at the moment he is in the driving seat, but johnson still leads in the polls, even if he is a wretched PM
Corbyn needs to be very careful accepting a GE too soon- will blow up in his face
Agreed.
https://giphy.com/gifs/starwars-movie-star-wars-3ornka9rAaKRA2Rkac
Brexit party will of course be a GE force
I hope so. That way the Tory/Brexit vote will be diluted (assuming no pact but I can't see the Torys ever agreeing to such a thing) resulting in fewer seats for either.
Can but hope.
At least, that's about all I can do at a GE, my local borough was 60% Bluekip in 2017. I couldn't tactically vote even if I want to. The first past the post system is truly tosh.
Even the flipping last local council election was essentially a choice between UKIP and Tory. AARGHH!
First time I've seen this guff on facebook
COPY & PASTE & let the world know the truth.
I have realised that the Remainers have been right all along when they say I did not know all the true facts before voting to leave, and it's true! We WERE lied to apparently - so I decided to do a little research.
I just voted to leave because I thought our sovereignty was being compromised by foreign unelected masters. That we were compelled to have unlimited uncontrolled immigration, our laws and export agreements dictated by Brussels bureaucrats - and had to pay eye-watering amounts for the privilege
However...
I DID NOT KNOW more than 10,000 EU officials get paid more than our Prime Minister.
I DID NOT KNOW that, unlike the UK, 18 countries get more back from the EU than they put in.
I DID NOT KNOW that the EU occupies over 45 buildings - 2 of which were purpose built monuments of grandeur and are the largest buildings in Europe.
I DID NOT KNOW that the EU Parliament spends 150 million euros a year moving to Strasbourg every month for 4 days committee meetings - and any attempt to stop this madness is vetoed by France.
I DID NOT KNOW that the EU has had a huge luxury shopping Mall built in Brussels for exclusive use of EU employees.
I DID NOT KNOW that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars, with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.
I DID NOT KNOW that many of them (like the Kinnocks) end up as millionaires as a reward for looking the other way!
I DID NOT KNOW that Clegg was lying when he mocked Nigel Farage for saying that an EU army was being planned - and Brussels said all along that it would NEVER happen.
I DID NOT KNOW that the EU had been financing the mass movement of industries from UK to mainland Europe.
I DID NOT KNOW that every member of the EU Council has to swear an Oath of Allegiance to the EU - so they are not a country's representative to the EU. They are the EU's representative to the country!
I could go on and on but suffice it to say that I have never for a moment doubted the correctness of my decision but I am now more sure than ever.
I am so glad that the Remainers prompted me to look deeper into the bureaucratic absurdity of being in the EU.
Apart from all that, everything's fine and anything Boris does to upset the silly and biased little Speaker and other pant-wetters in Parliament gets my full backing! This was written by Paul Jonathon, and he wants it spread. I am happy to do so it's brilliant.
Oh god theres definitely an election coming if those spam posts are doing the rounds again
farage been spending all those dodgy foreign donations on his bot army
I DID NOT KNOW that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars, with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.
That's the Brexit Party for you.
I DID NOT KNOW that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars, with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.
Sounds like my local dole office come signing on day, but substitute Limo's for Uber cabs 😁😁
Actually. I'm not sure that is all entirely guff. There is no doubt the EU needs to be reformed: If you look at this thread there are a lot of Remainers on here who were expressing indifference/distinct lack of enthusiasm towards the EU before the referendum took place. I suggest that is one reason why Remain lost. It took the realisation of what we were actually losing for a lot of people to turn so ardently pro-EU.
I don't think those people were anit-EU as such, just clever enough to know that for all it's issues cutting our own nose off was not the solution to the problem.
I DID NOT KNOW that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars, with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.
Well if anyone should know the facts on this it would be the likes of Farage.
andy4d
Subscriber
But as the country is so split 50% will be unhappy what ever the outcome is. How do you rebuild from this?
I missed this at the time but actually, 50% unhappy is the absolute best case scenario, if we remain. It's the same thing as I mentioned earlier, there's no brexit that satisfies all brexiteers. A no deal brexit probably leaves the most people unhappy. A brexit-in-name-only probably the next. But for the same reason that every brexit would be the will of the minority, and of a smaller minority than remaining, every brexit also leaves more people unhappy than no brexit at all.
More irony, the only thing that can unite brexiteers and keep them as a minority is remaining, every possible brexit divides them and leads to the satisfied brexiteers being a minority. There's absolutely no possible outcome that has majority support.
Absolutely the worst thing about the EU is our Brexit Party MEPs.
The Brussels Strasbourg thing is ridiculous as well.
If you look at this thread there are a lot of Remainers on here who were expressing indifference/distinct lack of enthusiasm towards the EU before the referendum took place
I still have indifference to the EU and would not vote to join if we were not in it. For pretty much the same reason as I would not vote to leave when we are in it - it is unnecessary disruption for no particular gain, i.e. not worth the effort.
The Brussels Strasbourg thing is ridiculous as well.
I used to think exactly this… and the fact that it’s down to French probably made me even more against it… but then several things happened (in Brussels & London) that made me think that having more than one site has plenty of advantages… so even that doesn’t bother me much anymore.
Meanwhile in a ditch somewhere Wakefield and London...