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jambs saying we'd never pay...
I don’t think I did. I said we need not pay and we should not pay. Sadly I am not PM 😐
If the EU don’t want a deal on fisheries we’ll keep all 100% of the catch quota
Is that what we're going to use that new aircraft carrier for Jammers? A new cod war? This time with fighter jets!!!* 😀
* if/when they arrive
@igm you don’t need a deal on WTO
Maybe, maybe not, opinions vary on this and I don’t have one.
Which is why I was careful about what of your rambling piece I quoted and how I responded to it.
I think my point stands (even if you missed it).
PS the just keep our quota idea won’t work. Most of our catch we sell. Most of what we eat we buy. Blinking trade, keeps getting in the way of blind nationalism.
Gov't defeat in HOC. 😀
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/13/tory-brexit-rebels-inflict-major-defeat-on-theresa-may?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other ]GAME ON!![/url]. 🙂
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perditus - Member
Gov't defeat in HOC.
Is that good? 🙄
P/s: So many British Governments, so many PMs, so many leaders, the country is absolutely divided ... turn it around it will be the same. 😛
If they don’t want a deal on flights then...
...there will be no flights across European air space.
Seems a tad unlikely.
Is that good?
It's probably worth another 6 months of arguing on here.
Is that good?
Yes.
Is that good?
Not if you are called theresa.
Dont worry it is all part of the plan . The grown ups know what they are doing .
I suspect it means we’ll have to put March 2019 in as the deadline to conclude negotiators, then plead with the eu to let us stay in current terms until HOP can debate what’s just been agreed.
Sounds fun.
Symbolic defeat, possibly an important symbol I don’t know.
A take it or leave it, ie defeat means WTO vote is meangingful.
Perhaps the Govt should schedule the vote for June 23, 2018. That way if the deal is defeated business has 9 months to prepare for WTO and Govt has time to negotiate flighst etc. Also that gives the EU a deadline to agree a deal with us. Personally I think the EU vote date of Oct 2018 is too fine to prepare for WTO.
Meanwhile the French in particular are worried about fiscal and social dumping. If 12.5% corporate tax rates are good enough for Ireland (well except where privately negotiated rates of 0.8% are better) then Indon’t see why they aren’t good enough for us,
This is France’s problem Edukator and Chris (for non French speakers it shows a company paying €150 to an employee results in €110 in taxes going to the State). Also bankers who go to France are almost advertising the fact that they are low level employees far below the €1m / 66% threshold.
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I think the point here isn’t really about Brexit at all. It’s about denying a load of right wing nut jobs the right to use medieval powers to bypass parliament, which is what they actually had in mind with ‘Taking Back Control’
Nice to see some Tory’s put the concept of democracy before party interests in the face of all this ‘Enemies of the People’ anti-democratic bullying, and nasty, small-minded, backward-looking nationalism
Hopefully this sends a sign to the nutters that they can’t just ignore the opinions of 48% of the electorate. May had this coming!
that article is nothing new , and nothing to do with corporate tax ;
I agree with binners.
I wonder what we’ll end up paying for access to the SM etc?
The same as Japan, Canada, South Korea and the other 60 odd free trade countries do. ZERO.
Now I have absoluteoy no doubt the EU will try and extract something as they have a budget black hole to fill.
This is all part of why I said just go WTO and let the EU negotiate sensibly as and when they are ready, ideally after a few years of us collecting £5-10bn pa in tariffs. Lets say 5 years so we are £60bn - £89bn better off. Pays for a lot that.
We need tariff free deals with US, South Korea and Japan for cars in order to take away the EU’s price advantage. That plus some new laws and taxes massively favouring electric and hybrid.
I know Chris, I wasn’t talking about corporate tax specifically more a general point that France’s problems are primarily domesticaly self inflicted. Yours Corporation tax is sky high too although Macron is reducing it as well as reversing most of the wealth taxes.
This is all part of why I said just go WTO and let the EU negotiate sensibly as and when they are ready, ideally after a few years of us collecting £5-10bn pa in tariffs.
Why do you think they'd just cough up the tariffs, rather than simply shop elsewhere?
To pay 30% on income you'd have to be comfortably off. It would be better to tax companbies on profits but that is difficult as the bigger ones pay in countires with fiscal dumping. One of the EU reforms I'd like to see as exposed in my very first posts on this thread. Don't destroy the eu, make it fairer which is best doen from within.
On the plus side the net salery goes a long way when there's no need for private health insurance, your kids get a free education (with a grant if you earn little enough), transport is cheap... . I see more poverty in Britain where taxes on both saleries and corporate taxes are low, go figure, Jamba... . And where do you plan to retire again? France or Portugal you said mot long ago. The countires you spend all your time on this thread slagging off are where you'd most like to live.
us collecting £5-10bn pa in tariffs
You mean us paying, while the government collects...
tariff free deals with US, South Korea and Japan for cars
“Japanese” cars made here.
US cars not very good (don’t get me started on fragile Teslas)
Korean? Maybe
We need tariff free deals with US, South Korea and Japan for cars in order to take away the EU’s price advantage.
Nobody can really be so far removed from reality, can they?
The same as Japan, Canada, South Korea and the other 60 odd free trade countries do. ZERO.
Norway on the other hand pay more than we do per capita. With less control.
Does it come down to how much access for services (a significant export for us) we want?
Nobody can really be so far removed from reality, can they?
I think if the whole Brexit fiasco has shown us anything, it's that about 37% of the population were/are completely removed from reality. Or as they preferred to call it, Project Fear.
Being in the EU was the main reason we had so much Japanese investment for manufacturing cars here.
We were even labelled as being a “Japanese aircraft carrier”.
It's a great result for 2 reasons
Parliamentary sovereignty upheld, which is what brexiters want, take back control and all that.
Possibly the beginning of the end for Brexit.
And it’s only recently that you can get rhd American cars although as part of the Uk-Us trade deal we can probably harmonise with them an change to driving on the other side.
Just another misjudgement by May and her team of crack brexiter crackpots !
Extra humiliating for May (& the UK) as she goes to Brussels tomorrow looking just as divided & weak as ever.
Still will of the people and all that jazz
Haha Farage has tweeted that 'his contempt for career politicians knows no bounds'.
Gobshite should be rejoicing - OUR great parliament has spoken.
@jamba.
Any response to my question regarding you stating you'd likely retire to an EU country?
Is there a list of how the MPs voted?
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Chuckling at the express quoting the Rand corp study
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How many fantasy tarrifs do we have to collect under WTO to cancel out the loss to GDP ,again?
So what do we reckon on the swivel-eyed tabloids front pages tomorrow
Im guessing splash of 12 Tory rebels labeled '[b]The Dirty Dozen[/b]' stab true patriots in the back in attempt to stop Brexit !
Or some such hate filled brexiganda
Haha Farage has tweeted that 'his contempt for career politicians knows no bounds'.
Does that mean he won't be taking his huge MEP pension for not doing his job as an MEP? 😳
So MPs vote on deal or no deal that they were getting anyway.... and the news is?
.... that Theresa doesn't have an automatic majority any longer?
And FFS THM, in the light of the last week's 'we have a deal' 'we don't have a deal' 'we might have an agreement in principle but I'm not guaranteeing it, I might change my mind when back in the UK' by this shambles of a government, your promises on getting a 'vote on deal or no deal that they were getting anyway' are worthless.
If they were [u]guaranteeing[/u] that vote why couldn't the government accept the amendment without the need to debate and vote on it.
Once again, quack quack
🙂
When will May give up? She looks tortured. She has zero chance of keeping everyone on side. The news is worse each day. Davies and co are making huge enemies in the EU and squandering goodwill
Jamba - how can you believe so many things ill happen that have been categorically rules out?
The EU have made it clear its meet the 3 main points, agree to pay up then we can talk about a trade deal. No pay. NO trade deal. Pay - then we can start talks on a trde deal
WTO we cannot have "most favoured nation status. Ruled out by significant players in WTO as well as the EU
Its alice in wonderland again
teamhurtmore - Member
So MPs vote on deal or no deal that they were getting anyway ...and the news is?
And the new is probably; Theresa can't persuade her party MPs to toe her line, Tory MPs elect to vote for a deal,they were getting anyway, Tory infighting, one or some of those probs 😉
[quote=teamhurtmore ]So MPs vote on deal or no deal that they were getting anyway.... and the news is?
Like you I am utterly clueless as to why they are calling it a defeat, or why the govt opposed this, seeing as nothing has changed and its not news.
Is there a list of how the MPs voted?
Hopefully one will emerge but I've not seen one.
Labour MPs must have actually voted on something for a change, that is a new precident.
I'd be very interested to see how the ten DUP voted.
Why the FFS ToJ?
We have progress on a deal. Nothing is legally blinding yet. The gov and the oppo are both torn asunder. The HoC gets a vote it knew is was having. We move on to trade next year. Nothing has changed - other than the politicians and those who report their behaviour look a little bit sillier. Oh, we do know that the EU is also desperate to avoid a HB.
May is made of surprisingly strong stuff. She isnt going to give up in a hurry. She wants to see this through so that she can flicks the vs at her many, many detractors