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Done under the cover of upholding democracy in response to remainers attempting to overturn the original referendum. You can’t have it both ways.
Again, Daz - how many times does it have to be explained to you.
The referendum was not binding around a single type of brexit - and in a representative democracy, the oppositions has a right to carry on representing it's base - it is up to the right or pro-brexit wing to respect that. Our conventions that should be respected are those which I have just stated, which you are choosing to ignore.
It is not the fault of remain that democracy is being eroded, it is a result of a combination of right wing ideology and right wing opportunism that is eroding democracy. As has happened in the past.
You are conflating populism and mob rule with democracy, you are wrong again, you keep being wrong, I suggest that you take some time to consider how wrong you have been repeatedly now.
I highly suggest you read James Kirchicks "End of Europe" before you start banging on about the erosion of democracy again.
I do struggle to see why dazh is getting such a hard time here.
The referendum (stupidly) was leave or remain. The country (not including myself) voted for leave.
Simply remaining because the original minority doesn't agree with leaving stinks.
Now, things have changed, the complexity of what leaving actually means and the fact that a decent deal is impossible, and the only real option is no deal should lead to another referendum on no deal vs remain.
I can't see how any legal wrangling to get out of no deal will fly with the general population.
I do struggle to see why dazh is getting such a hard time here.
A mixture of classic herd-mentality groupthink and touch of anonymity driven internet bullying I'd suggest. Social media just can't handle people who don't completely conform to the majority view, and we all know what that is on here on this subject.
Hang around for a bit, they may get round to calling you a nazi in a few pages time. 🙂
I do struggle to see why dazh is getting such a hard time here.
The referendum (stupidly) was leave or remain. The country (not including myself) voted for leave.
Simply remaining because the original minority doesn’t agree with leaving stinks.
Now, things have changed, the complexity of what leaving actually means and the fact that a decent deal is impossible, and the only real option is no deal should lead to another referendum on no deal vs remain.
I can’t see how any legal wrangling to get out of no deal will fly with the general population.
We are not simply remaining because of "remoaners", that is a right wring lie. It wasn't a binary vote, it was never sold as no deal vs remain - which is why, as you point out there needs to be a second referendum.
Real democracy requires that.
Hang around for a bit, they may get round to calling you a nazi in a few pages time.
You have an appetite for pushing alt-right propaganda, which you are never able to defend. And then wonder why people think that you are either a right-wing troll or a useful idiot.
But yes Daz, you're right - you'd be free from supposedly being victimized by centrist "neo-liberalism" and wouldn't have to live under a "humbling" Tory Reich if those nasty metropolitan elite remoaners voted Corbyn and stopped holding up our glorious exit from the European Union.
We are not simply remaining because of “remoaners”, that is a right wring lie. It wasn’t a binary vote, it was never sold as no deal vs remain – which is why, as you point out there needs to be a second referendum.
Real democracy requires that.;
Please be aware I am 100% remain. I can only see myself losing out from any leave deal. I am deeply opposed to leaving on an individual, local and national level.
It wasn’t a binary vote,
It WAS a binary vote. That's the issue. It was madness to simplify it to that. But it absolutely was a binary vote. There was no option to decide what kind of leave people wanted.
People voted for leave, which can only be taken as "anything but remain" until there is another referendum to explicitly what leave means.
Sadly, this seems highly unlikely to happen, so now we must start working towards making sure this Tory government is outed come the next GE and start to rebuild.
t WAS a binary vote. That’s the issue. It was madness to simplify it to that. But it absolutely was a binary vote. There was no option to decide what kind of leave people wanted.
People voted for leave, which can only be taken as “anything but remain” until there is another referendum to explicitly what leave means.
The vote itself was binary, the debate around it was not and it was never assumed or made clear by those that created and lead the referendum that this would ever be a binary choice of no deal vs remain.
The anything but remain idea is not valid, people who voted to leave did so often under the impression that there would be a deal. Not to mention that if no deal was being discussed as something that was possible, as opposed to something that was brushed off by vote leave, then more swing voters would have been galvanized into voting remain.
It's absolutely a failure in democracy, but the responsibility lies with the Tories and vote leave.
The vote itself was binary, the debate around it was not and it was never assumed or made clear by those that created and lead the referendum that this would ever be a binary choice of no deal vs remain.
Totally agree.
I can't help but feel that weaseling out of things with a legal battle will just make things worse.
Extending another 6 months won't move the conversation forward at all.
I really feel it needs a new referendum on no deal, May's deal or Remain.
Social media just can’t handle people who don’t completely conform to the majority view
Yours unfortunately is a mainstream even majority view, Daz. Resignation and demission rather than fighting something you don't agree with.
Willful submission. Roll over and be shat on by all those that manipulated the vote.
You have an appetite for pushing alt-right propaganda
There you go again. Your obsessive mission to paint me as a far right sympathiser is pretty amusing as I'm 100% comfortable and confident with the fact that I'm the very opposite, and if you spoke to anyone who knows me they'd confirm this.
Obviously though, anyone who disagrees with your towering intellect must automatically be a nazi (stop using the alt-right bollox btw, we all know what you're talking about), or an idiot. And you wonder why I don't reply?
rather than fighting something you don’t agree with.
I see little of that on here TBH. I see lots of calling people idiots, morons, nazis, racists, gammons or whatever, along with people celebrating job losses in industrial areas and anticipating the coming economic crash with a certain amount of glee at the effect it will have on those at the bottom. If that's what 'fighting something you disagree with' looks like then yeah, I'm having no part in it.
Still no answer as to why it is remain that is the enemy of democracy Daz.
nazi
You don't have to be a nazi to ascribe to national populism.
Dazh has tied himself up in knots… just leave him in peace.
Still no answer as to why it is remain that is the enemy of democracy Daz.
Because people voted for anything but remain.
This is the madness of asking people "head or tails" over something that is deeply complicated with many shades of grey.
People can't be blamed for voting on the only options they had though.
As I've posted above, "the anything but remain" idea is not valid, people who voted to leave did so often under the impression that there would be a deal. Not to mention that if no deal was being discussed as something that was possible, as opposed to something that was brushed off by vote leave, then more swing voters would have been galvanized into voting remain.
The "anything but remain" is an idea that might prove popular with a lot of leave voters, but the democratic thing to do is not to cave into that - and instead make the case for why democracy requires another vote.
The issue though, for a lot of the leave voters that DazH talks about and the reason they are opposed to a second referendum or parliamentary debate - is not that they are reacting to a democratic deficit, it's that they have had too much of it. People don't like democracy, it's too fuzzy, with too many compromises to be made. What a lot of people want is strong, charismatic leadership, from someone who they think cares about their needs. They have a want and a need to abdicate the responsibility for their lives to a higher power, whether it is a charismatic leader or god. Remember, universal suffrage isn't even 100 years old, peoples attraction to authoritarian rule is 1000s of years old.
Done under the cover of upholding democracy in response to remainers attempting to overturn the original referendum. You can’t have it both ways.
As has been said before we have a PARLIAMENTARY Democracy. It's one thing leaving the EU being in the Tory manifesto, it's another getting a manifesto pledge through parliament - but that's how it's supposed to work.
Now M. gove won’t rule out ignoring the law and boris is saying he might refuse to step down if he fails a VONC?
Forget brexit, if this is allowed to fly we’re living in a text book dictatorship
TBH I think they’re playing to their new base (Brexit party)who they need to come back, I’ve heard people full of respect fo Boris as he is getting stuff done.
(When in reality he’s doing nothing but preparing for an election and getting the blame lined up to everyone but the Tories)
I think Doms gave em an election play sheet and they’re sticking to it.
You only have to see the money being promised to everything, they’re playing the people for the oncoming election.
This lot said months ago that suspending parliament was bad now they’re all for it, anything for a ministerial car.
Led by the man promising to lie in front of the bulldozers.
Do you honestly believe anything they say ?
A mixture of classic herd-mentality groupthink and touch of anonymity driven internet bullying I’d suggest. Social media just can’t handle people who don’t completely conform to the majority view, and we all know what that is on here on this subject.
Hang around for a bit, they may get round to calling you a nazi in a few pages time. 🙂
Do get over yourself. You get a hard time because you're just plain wrong. HTH. (-:
The “anything but remain” is an idea that might prove popular with a lot of leave voters, but the democratic thing to do is not to cave into that – and instead make the case for why democracy requires another vote.
I agree. Another vote is the only option I feel. Blocking no deal via legislation whilst I agree with the outcome will only lead to more issues down the line.
This is all irrelevant though I feel now. No deal is happening, we must prepare the to turn things around after.
This is all irrelevant though I feel now. No deal is happening, we must prepare the to turn things around after.
I think the only thing we’ve learnt about Brexit is that nothing is predictable about it.
It's funny that remoaners are still getting the blame
The reason we haven't left yet is because the brexiteers had no plan
The backstop was an inevitable consequence of their idiotic red lines.
Now on top of the fraud & illegality of the ref itself Johnson has shut down parliament & Gove says they'll ignore the law.
Appeasing angry leavers by crashing out without a deal is pointless, when we leave & things get even worse they'll only demand a harder shift to the right, first it was Brexit-even farage was promising Norway, now that not enough it's got to be hard Brexit or bust... what comes next- rounding up EU citizens?
Blocking no deal via legislation whilst I agree with the outcome will only lead to more issues down the line.
No, it will be preveting more damage & a harder shift to the right
If Brexit has failed it's because the brexiteers had no actual plan for what follows (johnson still doesn't have one) if they did we'd be well on the way to sunlit uplands by now.
We need to make sure they get the blame
Making scapegoats of the EU, remainers, enemies of the people etc is taking the country down a dark path. We need to stand up to it.
Reading this thread and other debates online suggests that the Brexit debate is becoming increasingly polarised.
People who want to remain being called traitorous remoaners and people who want to leave being called morons. Objectivity appears to have gone out of the window.
I have to say that I agree with a lot of what dazh is saying and I think he’s getting a fair bit of unfair stick to be honest. I think it’s hard to have a sensible debate with so much at stake and the understandable high emotions that come with this.
While I would be very happy for a second referendum I’m not convinced the result will change, even if it’s a choice between no deal and remain. There’s so much misinformation about it’s becoming increasingly difficult for your average Joe to get their heads around what’s what.
In my view Maybot’s deal is the best solution and Labour should back this. It’s far from perfect but there is no perfect solution to this mess. It does, however, respect the result of the ref without sending us off a cliff.
PS
I am not Teresa May 😀
Objectivity appears to have gone out of the window.
I don't think it ever existed in the whole debate. If it did, there would be no question of leaving.
I don’t think it ever existed in the whole debate. If it did, there would be no question of leaving.
Not necessarily. Some would still be in favour since they would be able to profit.
Some whilst thinking they are objective would be misinformed and so in favour.
Many (I suspect) would accept they arent completely objective and informed but not realise how badly misinformed they are and also be in a position where they are so badly screwed they decide its worth a gamble anyway.
In the recent years a lot of people have lost out and are deciding sod it its worth a roll of the dice.
It does, however, respect the result of the ref without sending us off a cliff.
Apart from it doesnt. All it does is punt the issue a couple of years down the road. All the actual hard negotiations still have to made. Thats the bit which is often ignored.
Maybots deals was just an interim solution and gives pretty much total control to the government without them having to use interesting legal tactics like johnson the tosser is doing.
Shame Theresa didn't do this to Boris and the ERG nut jobs.
I wonder if Boris even knows the meaning of 'hypocritical bastard'...
Oh well time for some tories to stand up and be counted - interesting times.
We are only where we are because we have a minority government without the votes needed to win a vote in the commons for its path. If May hadn’t needed DUP votes, the backstop would have stayed an all Ireland one, rather than an all British Isles one, and the Withdrawl Agreement could probably have been backed by her MPs eager to deregulate and diverge England from the rest of Europe. Now Boris also finds he doesn’t have the numbers to get what he wants through Parliament. There should be only two courses of action here… and both require going to the public for a vote… there should be no third option of shutting down parliament. Imaging what would be said if Corbyn was PM and tried such a move.
I think/hope No10 efforts to threatened MPs who are against No Deal may backfire…
https://twitter.com/rorystewartuk/status/1168266343793221632?s=21
I think/hope No10 efforts to threatened [Conservative] MPs who are against No Deal may backfire…
Backfire? I get the feeling there is strategy unpinning all of this. All of the reactions to the Government's actions have so far been entirely predictable. BoJo is just working through a game plan...
I get the feeling there is strategy unpinning all of this.
Of course there bloody well is. There always was.
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I think/hope No10 efforts to threatened MPs who are against No Deal may backfire…
He’s got a majority of 1 and he’s threatening to throw at least 3+ away.
Get your pens ready.
He’s got a majority of 1 and he’s threatening to throw at least 3+ away.
Get your pens ready.
That's his plan, I suspect. He'll rely on Remainers' refusal to compromise which will split the Labour vote, return with an increased majority, and push through whatever he wants.
Remainers’ refusal to compromise
What is this compromise? The Tory rebels have made it clear they will accept any Withdrawl Agreement that is put before them. It is just a No Deal Brexit that they wish to avoid. What is the compromise that they are refusing to accept?
Alternative arrangements…
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/02/irish-border-after-brexit-all-ideas-beset-by-issues
What is this compromise?
It was obvious from my post that I was talking about voters in a general election. If you and many other posters in this thread are typical of the mindset of Remain voters, then we can look forward to a Johnson government with an increased majority.
What is the compromise that they are refusing to accept?
Voting for a Labour party led by Jeremy Corbyn and getting a "jobs first Brexit" at a guess.
Loving this quote from that Guardian article:
the report said: “DExEU [the Department for Exiting the European Union] has been considering whether a paper consolidating the findings from all of the advisory groups should be published in late September/early October.
“However, we and other departments have cautioned against this given the potential negative impacts on the renegotiation with the EU and we understand No 10 are in agreement …”
Lies lies lies.
It was obvious from my post that I was talking about voters in a general election.
So what is the compromise that voters are refusing to accept?
I live in Mid Worcestershire. Even I was prepared to vote Labour it won't help as the Tory majority increased 8.3% in 2017. We are Gammon central.
you and many other posters in this thread are typical of the mindset of Remain voters, then we can look forward to a Johnson government with an increased majority.
A very good point, it's sad to say, but Corbyns failure to understand that Brexit has changed the political dynamic and very likely let Johnson in
I think the “typical of the mindset of Remain voters” barb was aimed at me. I’m voting Labour in my seat, when the inevitable general election happens. But I still think Corbyn completely dropped the ball by not calling for a VONC before the summer, and before we fell into this pre-exit period where the Johnson government holds all the cards as regards the parliamentary timetable and the timing of any election.
But I still think Corbyn completely dropped the ball by not calling for a VONC before the summer
I think too many Tory MPs were on the fence that Boris was going to capitulate at the last minute that they would of sided with him. Even now a successful VONC is hardly guaranteed.
What's striking is that Johnson has a clear policy regards Brexit*
Labours policy still requires a flow chart to figure it out
*Brexit being the deciding issue in the forthcoming election
Even now a successful VONC is hardly guaranteed.
It is far less likely to be successful now… because back then it could be supported and result in a general election before we leave. Supporting it now could well result in a post No Deal Brexit election… so Tory MPs would be asked to commit harikari without it even stopping No Deal. So VONC is now incredibly risky ‘till A50 is extended or cancelled… neither of which the current government is willing to do. Legislation is the only way forward now… and it is, sadly, quite easily neutered by a government willing to do anything.
But I still think Corbyn completely dropped the ball by not calling for a VONC before the summer,
The chances of tory MPs supporting it then was minimal. Might be one or two exceptions but most wanted to go through all the other options first before going nuclear.
As such it would have helped Boris. Plenty Labour can be criticised for but not going for the VONC early isnt one of them.
because back then it could be supported and result in a general election before we leave
But that would have relied on Tory MPs voting against their own government when it wasn't almost certain (as it is now) that we'll end up with a no deal Brexit. No chance they would have done that before. But yeah a VONC is pretty much pointless now, in terms of avoiding a no deal Brexit anyway.
harikari
Harakiri.
But that would have relied on Tory MPs voting against their own government
Tory MPs resigned from government and one of those resigning ministers asked the speaker for a vote, back then. Seizing that moment and stopping the Johnson government from taking control was the last good chance to stop No Deal. Yes, it may well have failed. The same can be said of any attempt made to stop No Deal now.
What’s striking is that Johnson has a clear policy regards Brexit
Kill the poor
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1168434092611911681
Tory MPs resigned from government and one of those resigning ministers asked the speaker for a vote, back then.
and plenty of others didnt. So it would have been ****ing stupid to do so.
Grieve was about the only one said he would go for it but even then last resort.
Ken Clarke stepped back from even saying it was a last resort option in July.
It only has the support it has now since Johnson removed the chance for other options and even now the support it has is unclear since it is unclear how many will put their jobs and party first.
Grieve was about the only one said he would go for it but even then last resort.
Grieve was directly quoted saying he would never facilitate a labour government led by Corbyn. Avoiding no deal is not the most important thing for him.
It should be up to the voters who forms the government. A vote before the summer recess could have resulted in a general election before we are due to leave. The ball would then have been in our court, as voters. Tory MPs would not have had to put Corbyn in power… expecting them to do so on our behalf now is odd.
A vote before the summer recess could have resulted in a general election before we are due to leave.
You can't have an election if you don't win a VONC, and the likes of Grieve said repeatedly that they wouldn't support one. I have no idea why you keep clinging on to this when it's a matter of recorded history that it never would have passed.
It is not a “matter of recorded history”, because the vote wasn’t called. Too late now. All options left have a far lower chance of preventing No Deal now that the Johnson government has full control of the mechanisms of power in a time limited environment.
Going back a couple of pages to where I was talking about government acting in the country's best interests rather than blindly giving people what they think they want, I've just tripped over this:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmmodern/337/33706.htm
"The first duty of a member of Parliament is to do what he thinks in his faithful and disinterested judgement is right and necessary for the honour and safety of Great Britain. His second duty is to his constituents, of whom he is the representative but not the delegate. Burke's famous declaration on this subject is well known. It is only in the third place that his duty to party organization or programme takes rank. All these three loyalties should be observed, but there in no doubt of the order in which they stand under any healthy manifestation of democracy."
Seems Winston Churchill agrees with me.
page 1782 Cougar … quoted by a Conservative MP
A quote from Paul Mason…
“As I've said before: if Farage and Johnson form a pact, then the progressive parties have to form a pact. If we lose, this is the last free and fair election in Britain - Johnson's faction of the Tories will use voter ID, delegitimisation, boundary rigging etc to ensure that.”
…at first I laughed it off as a bit of election build up hyperbole… and then, half an hour later… I thought about that Mary Beard tweet yesterday about erosions of democracy being sold to “feel” quite ordinary… and Mason may well be right, and we are probably ripe for either falling for it, not noticing it slowly unfold over the difficult five years to come, or being totally unable to stop it.
At the very least, the referendum showed that it doesn’t matter how you win, as long as you win… people will then say the result should be accepted and not challenged.
What’s striking is that Johnson has a clear policy regards Brexit*
Labours policy still requires a flow chart to figure it out
*Brexit being the deciding issue in the forthcoming election
I no Corbyn fan, but given just how complex the whole Brexit shit-storm has proven to be, maybe an algorithmic solution is called for.
My problem isn't his complex ifs and buts solution, it's trusting him as a life-long Euroskeptic to at least offer a deal which ensures FOM and SM membership, or ideally remain.
Why do you have to trust what form of Brexit he will chase if elected, as long as he puts it to a public vote against keeping membership? If he does arrange something with the EU that most voters prefer to membership… that seems entirely democratic… if perhaps unlikely.
He needs to be getting out there and explaining that Labour propose a referendum with a Remain option… now… the election campaign is underway… and people still don’t know where Labour stand. And he needs to be joining in with what other opposition parties are discussing, in terms of preparing to not put candidates up for election where other parties have a better chance of heading off the Conservative Brexit Party threat (as per Mason’s quote above).
That Rees-Moggs call "Well you didn’t write very good plans if you hadn’t worked out how to mitigate, had you?" Can we get him to jump out a plane without a parachute and then come up with a good plan to mitigate what happens next.
Who is that muppet of a presenter who basically acted as a cheerleader for the smug ****er.
At the very least, the referendum showed that it doesn’t matter how you win, as long as you win… people will then say the result should be accepted and not challenged.
It's a question of confidence. Before 2016, even with our very imperfect system the general population had confidence that the results of elections (and referenda) would be upheld. Now they don't. Who knows where this will lead but the likes of Farage and Aaron Banks are waiting in the wings to take advantage. Those on here fantasing about the people being protected from themselves may yet get what they want.
and people still don’t know where Labour stand.
Speech today in Salford. It was on the telly and the radio, and covered live by newspapers. We're you not watching?
Now they don’t. Who knows where this will lead but the likes of Farage and Aaron Banks are waiting in the wings to take advantage.
waiting in the wings?
the referendum was them taking advantage
fortunately some of us are trying to oppose the fascists
We’re you not watching?
Yes. I was (well, I was listening). Speeches and letters aren’t enough. That should be obvious by now. The strategy needs to be far wider and aimed at people who don’t read or listen to this stuff.
If so many people have no idea what Labour policy is, pointing that out and hoping for better communication from the leader from here on is an entirely valid comment that doesn’t require a sarcastic response.
is an entirely valid comment that doesn’t require a sarcastic empty response.
On this thread!? You are joking aren't you?
Anyway, if televised speeches aren't enough what else should he be doing? Love Island? Strictly? Speaker's Corner? Just be patient. The election is nearly upon us, then when news editors are required by law to be balanced, you'll see a sudden ramping up of coverage of labour policy.
Rumours doing the rounds (from the same leaks about them suspending parliament) is that the self-serving mop plans to call a general election tomorrow, which he’ll get, as grandad will 3 line whip in support of it
The unelectable versus the unelectable
What fun!
There is a whole other thread where communication strategy has been spelled out by many, including those that have worked in the media, just for you @dazh. Go back and read it. The routes to prime time coverage are clear… there is no media bias keeping the leader of the opposition out of the limelight. He could be on just about any programme, any time… he just has to be happy to answer a few questions, and have his proclamations challenged.
there is no media bias keeping the leader of the opposition out of the limelight.
Newsnight have complained several times that both Corbyn & Johnson refuse to appear and be interviewed
The leader of the opposition? The potential next PM? There’s a picture of him in today’s Guardian, on his bike in Salford.
I can’t find it online to post it up (you’ll probably be seeing it once the Tory press office gets hold of it) but he looks like some homeless weirdo who lives in a tent under a railway arch and spends his days drinking cider and shouting at buses
It was used in an article about Len McClusky reaffirming the Labour parties commitment to Brexit and stressing they are not a remain party
Electoral gold-dust, right there
On the media front, Johnson refuses to engage with channel 4 news, due to some perceived slight, Corbyn simply refuses to engage with any news organisation.
The BBC Today programme have been regularly asking him for interviews for nearly 3 years since his last one. They are always told he isn’t available.
Takes up a lot of time, that allotment
yeah saw this
reminded me why voting for labour at the next GE will be foolish
That has to be the first time that McCluskey and @Binners have sought the exact same outcome*. They look to be perfectly aligned now. Strange days.
[ *that is Labour MPs now supporting the/a Tory Withdrawal Agreement ]
[ *Kinnock Jr on Radio4 also backing this now ]
Takes up a lot of time, that allotment
You spend more time mentioning it than he spends at it.
And you spend more time mentioning me mentioning it, so I reckon we’re about straight
Have to admit that I’m quite surprised that Len McClusky is looking at a realistic way out of this shit. But it looks like the least worst option now.
Doesn’t sound like what’s coming from the Corbyn bunker though (for what we know from their usual radio silence) who still seem to be wrapped up in their red unicorns fantasy, fighting the battles of 6 months ago, as well as those of the 1970’s
The Labour Party needs to wake up, sort it’s shit out fast and think on its feet this week, as that’s what Cummings will be doing.
Unfortunately Corbyn thinks and makes decisions at a glacial pace, with endless fence-sitting procrastination and then invariably gets it wrong
He’s simply the wrong man to be in this position.
An over-promoted local council shop steward
Great to hear Johnson’s press conference being drowned out by chants of ‘Stop the Coup!’
He looked really uncomfortable
Thankfully it looks like the opposition to be deal has crystallised its message into 3 words. That’s the kind of thing Cummings and his satanic ilk have been outstanding at (Take Back Control) while the opposition to it has lacked focus
Before 2016, even with our very imperfect system the general population had confidence that the results of elections (and referenda) would be upheld. Now they don’t.
Before 2016, seemingly the electorate didn't know the difference between an election and a referendum. They've had three years now to work it out, but they don't appear to be listening.
We've spent decades drip-feeding the populace with lies and mistruths, the tabloids leap on any excuse to go "see that Polish bloke next door, he's the reason your son can't get a job, it's nothing to do with his lack of talent, education, skills, experience or ambition. It can't possibly be US at fault, it has to be THEM." Then the same narrative moved into politics, which is somewhere between shameful and criminal. This entire catastrophe from beginning to end is wholly based on propaganda.
So, now we can bow down to populism and go "yeah, well, we had a vote to set fire to the country so we'd better do that because something something democracy something" or we can start being honest with people. Holding the media to account for what they print would be a good start, individuals can be interviewed by police for making a stupid flippant remark on Twitter yet the national press can publish whatever shit they happen to make up that day with impunity. The whole system is fundamentally broken and people are being denied the tools they need to make sense of it all.
#stopthecoup impromptu protest outside mk station has 100 people tonight, twice as much as last week 😁
Anyone else reckon that BoJo rehoming a cute rescue puppy just days before (probably) announcing a snap election is about as cynical as it gets? Maybe that is the kind of tactic the opposition should be pursuing 🙂
Well the media long ago gave up being about news and became about clicks, likes, sharing, commenting - the more outrageous a story the better and any bad news you can kind of hide in amongst some heart-warming viral story of a cute kitten being saved from a drain or a bit of salacious gossip about some D-list celebrity's girlfriend.
Much like how No.10 has suddenly acquired a cute little doggy. Distraction.
The thick plotens...
https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1168580895437205506
Johnson will take results of tomorrow's bill as a vote of confidence and will call a GE soon after if he loses.
Assuming this comes to pass, can we count on labour not to play ball and give him his 2/3's for his GE?
Have to admit that I’m quite surprised that Len McClusky is looking at a realistic way out of this shit. But it looks like the least worst option now.
WTF?
Dare I remind anyone that I've had every insult from nazi/alt-right appeaser to closet brexiteer thrown at me in past few months for daring to suggest the same. What's up? The culture war not looking so appealing now we're staring into the abyss?