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I’m pretty sure the Withdrawl Agreement would get 50% +1 votes in Parliament now… with Labour MPs supporting it… even without the Labour front bench supporting it (some would though) but it’s not in Johnson’s interest to try that now. No Deal unites the Conservative & Brexit Party voter base and gives him five years to try and make Brexit ancient history before his second general election as PM.
Source? I can’t find anything on the google.
Just interviewed on the World at One on Radio 4. Stated repeatedly that they will not support ANY Tory deal, then went into the usual red unicorn bollocks, and demanding a general election
Like yesterday never happened
****ing cloud cuckoo-land, the lot of them squatting in their bunker. As self-serving as the Tory's.
So much for the thin hope that some reality might have entered proceedings and , god forbid, some cross-party co-operation going on?
Hopefully, despite their myopic leadership, a few labour MPs might be a bit more pragmatic
Dear sweet Mary mother of God.
Quick, move them deckchairs around a bit more.
If our economy really does tank post-no-deal-Brexit and the Brexit supporters lose their jobs etc. they’ll easily be ‘persuaded’ that the EU is where they should be directing their anger and not at BoJo.
Maybe I’m wrong
You’re not wrong. Except that they won’t require ‘persuading’. They already were persuaded. Furthermore - tanking economy and disastrous unemployment levels won’t just be blamed on the EU, but yet again on immigrants, descendants of immigrants, ‘lefties’, the sick, those with disabilities, benefit-claimants, etc. History is repeating.
I can't see the existing WA agreement getting passed now, even with some rewording. BoJo has stated many times publicly recently the backstop had to go, if he'd just wanted to get the EU to accept some fudged language over it but fundamentally accepting it needed to remain in the WA he wouldn't have painted himself into a corner in public.
He knows he's finished as PM if he accepts the WA with the Irish backstop and he only cares about himself so there's no chance he will.
Given there's no plan B that allows the backstop to be removed from the WA and if they couldn't figure one out in 3 years with some semi-competent people looking at it our current bunch of idiots have no chance.
I'm guessing BoJo actually sees no deal as the only way he survives, if he can blame it all on the EU an gain populist/Nationalist support as a result (taking it away from the Brexit Party) then it might be enough to actually get re-elected. I can't see what other chance he has apart from surviving a VONC and carrying on with in government with no majority.
won’t just be blamed on the EU, but yet again on immigrants, descendants of immigrants, ‘lefties’, the sick, those with disabilities, benefit-claimants, etc.
Bojo might even include the Scots and the Irish (Remoaners, the lot o'them) in order to 'strengthen the union' through removal of devolved powers and a dash of good old fashioned oppression (i strongly hope this is as far fetched as it appears btw).
Just received a travel Warning from work.
Looks like it's going to kick off from tomorrow.
This alert affects United Kingdom
This alert began 30 Aug 2019 13:35 GMT and is scheduled to expire 31 Aug 2019 23:59 GMT.
Event: Anti-government protests
Location: City centers (map)
Date: Aug. 31
Impact: Heightened security, localized transport disruptions; scuffles possible
Summary
Anti-government activists plan to protest in urban centers across the UK, Aug. 31 against the government's plan to suspend Parliament in the run-up to the Brexit deadline day Oct. 31. Participants will gather in city centers. The following protests are confirmed and likely to cause significant disruption:
Glasgow: George Square, 1400
Leeds: Leeds Town Hall, 1100
Liverpool: St George's Hall, 1200
London: Downing Street, 1200
Manchester: Cathedral Gardens, 1200
Newcastle: Grey's Monument, 1200
Nottingham: Brian Clough Statue, 1100
Sheffield: Sheffield Town Hall, 1100
Additional protests will take place in other cities throughout the country with varying levels of participation. Police will deploy to monitor and facilitate the protests. Large numbers of people and associated crowd-control measures, including road closures and movement restrictions, may lead to localized transport disruptions. Public transport near protest venues are likely to experience heavier than usual congestion, and certain routes may be canceled or delayed. The protests are likely to be peaceful, though isolated scuffles are possible should pro-Brexit counterdemonstrators attend the events.
Background and Analysis
The UK is scheduled to leave the European Union, Oct. 31. The UK Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, has stated his intention to comply with this date whether or not a deal has been reached regarding the future relationship between the UK and the EU. Opponents argue that the government's decision to suspend Parliament Sept. 9-Oct. 14 is undemocratic as it limits Parliament's ability to influence the Brexit process. Further demonstrations are likely in both the run-up to the suspension of Parliament and the scheduled Brexit date.
Advice
Avoid the demonstrations as a routine security precaution and to mitigate associated disruptions. Leave the area at the first sign of a confrontation. Allow extra time for travel in the vicinity of city centers hosting protests Aug. 31. Check public transport schedules for disruptions.
Bojo might even include the Scots and the Irish (Remoaners, the lot o’them) in order to ‘strengthen the union’ through removal of devolved powers and a dash of good old fashioned oppression (i strongly hope this is as far fetched as it appears btw).
Oh I don't know.
I think one thing thats pretty apparent is that Dave was right about one thing - Dominic Cummings really is a psychopath.
Given that after 3 years of what had already felt relatively bad anyway, suddenly everything's changed and is now potentially apocalyptic, and things previously unthinkable are now just par for the course.
So with that lunatic pulling the strings and Boris as his sock puppet and nominally PM, being cheered on by the ERG headbangers, christ only knows where we'll end up
scuffles possible
superb
Anyway, I predict May’s deal with be resurrected and passed at the last minute, and then an election will be held with Boris claiming the middle ground and victory over both remainers and the ERG. The threat of no deal has never been to get the EU to change their minds, but to change the minds of MPs, and it’ll probably work.
Rather reliant on Corbyn not imposing a THIRD 3 line whip....
So, I’ll give that option the square root of FA possibility of coming to pass!
‘Anti-Brexit remoaners resort to rioting after Johnson’s masterstroke’
(In before the headlines)
The slowest car-crash continues. The actual drivers are untouchable, remote, smiling. This crash shall assure their gilded dream-retirement package, another on top of the ones that they already had.
Rather reliant on Corbyn not imposing a THIRD 3 line whip….
So, I’ll give that option the square root of FA possibility of coming to pass!
Already scotched by John McDonnel earlier today. And not just that, ANY Tory deal will be 3 line whipped against.
Its Magic Grandads Fantasy Red Unicorns Brexit or nothing. Even if that means crashing out with no deal (which we all know is what Corbyn really wants anyway)
Anti-government activists plan to protest in urban centers across the UK,
I dont really get this obseesion with city centres- if you actually wnated to cause disruption, clearly the thing to do would be to blockade the motorways... turning Kent into a car park as sugested will happen in case of no-deal would be particularly effective
Basically, The Big Boris Fan Club says they think its a spiffing idea to stick it to the hun smash the opponents of democracy stop the competition from talking about your plan (and possibly, horror, deciding it is a bad one).
Bojo might even include the Scots and the Irish (Remoaners, the lot o’them) in order to ‘strengthen the union’ through removal of devolved powers and a dash of good old fashioned oppression (i strongly hope this is as far fetched as it appears btw).
Populists need enemies they can blame for their country's problems. If Scotland decides to become independent, partly due to the current mess, a vindictive populist like Johnson is guaranteed to paint it as The Enemy That Is Undermining Glorious Britannia. While Scotland and the rUK would already be reeling from the shocks caused by Brexit, Johnson would do his damnedest to ensure that independence is as damaging to Scotland as possible. His supporters would love him for this, despite hating the EU for having in their eyes been so cruel and unfair to the UK during the Brexit talks.
I'm not trying to paint this as a reason not for Scotland to become independent, more to point out that it would not be a way to quickly escape the current insanity.
Already scotched by John McDonnel earlier today.
God I'm confused. You and almost everyone else on here have been moaning for months that Corbyn hasn't been remain enough, now you want him to support leaving with a shit deal? Make your bloody minds up! 🙂
We're crashing out with no deal Daz. Grandad is continuing to do all he can to support the Boris/ERG position, while making the odd vague, half-arsed comment to some other effect to try and make us think that not whats he's doing
We're really not that stupid though
We’re really not that stupid though
Of course not. A genius like yourself sees through all these cunning plans and immediately responds with childish insults and hilarious screenshots.
I was wondering when you would resume normal service as a useful idiot for the hard right by spewing your hatred of Corbyn everywhere whilst the brexiteer elite get on with their pillaging.
In an ideal world he'd have some sort of plan to actually get this extension and a second referendum, or something like that.
Seeing as that seems to have zero chance of happening, I think I'd take 'going for the WA' as a completely crap second best. It's more remainy than no deal.
But, no, it's red unicorns or bust, apparently.
Ergo, bust.
But, no, it’s red unicorns or bust, apparently.
A cursory check shows it isnt but hey ho why let the facts get in the way of things.
I was wondering when you would resume normal service as a useful idiot for the hard right
You've actually just perfectly described your hero
Only there would be no 'resumption needed. When it comes to the EU he's been very consistent and perfectly fulfilled that role for about 40 years.
And he's no sign of stopping now.
Dominic must be absolutely delighted with his little beardy ally
We’re crashing out with no deal Daz.
I don't think we will. Maybe it's blind optimism but I seriously think it won't happen, either because the opposition parties will stop it, or because May's deal will be passed with some minor alterations to the backstop.
Boris can't go with the wa. If he does he is finished.
It is going to be no deal or new extension if opposition can work together.
Grandad is continuing to do all he can to support the Boris/ERG position
When will the penny drop about Corbyn’s strong dislike for the E.U.?
Every single vote since 1975 that’s counted he’s voted AGAINST the E.U...& enforced TWO 3 line whips (since the ref - A50 & WA)...both of which it can only be said has only helped us to where we are now.
Whose really the useful idiot for the right....?
It is going to be no deal or new extension if opposition can work together.
It's going to be no deal or no Brexit. Unfortunately the former is written in law.
So, when this no-confidence vote coming then? Shouldn't the grownups all be having a nice chat, setting aside their usual differences and asking Ken Clarke and Harriet Harman to take over as PM and Deputy?
The slowest car-crash continues. The actual drivers are untouchable
the drivers have ripped off the steering wheel
https://unherd.com/2019/08/dominic-cummings-is-no-chicken/
the method to their madness
enforced TWO 3 line whips (since the ref – A50 & WA)…both of which it can only be said has only helped us to where we are now.
You're assuming that whipping the other way would have made a difference! If you head back to your simulator and try again I think you'll probably find that whatever he did we'd still have been screwed the same way.
The only good thing to come out of any of the is that the papers have started referring to those trying to stop prorogation as 'the rebel alliance'.
I don’t think we will. Maybe it’s blind optimism but I seriously think it won’t happen, either because the opposition parties will stop it, or because May’s deal will be passed with some minor alterations to the backstop.
Well you've been wrong about everything 100 percent of the time so far.
So no deal it is then.
You’re assuming that whipping the other way would have made a difference! If you head back to your simulator and try again I think you’ll probably find that whatever he did we’d still have been screwed the same way.
We will never know for sure will we? But if he was such an ardent Remainer & the ONLY choice (as some claim....) available for reversing Brexit.....why the F did he do it??
They don’t strike me as the actions of a man whose pro-Europe.....rather the opposite in fact.
That guy writing about Cummings.
A genuinely interesting read for those that skipped it. Frankly,a bit scary too.
You’re assuming that whipping the other way would have made a difference!
What would have made a difference is not instructing his MPs to abstain on the the two amendments brought by Joanna Cherry to effectively take no-deal off the table.
They didn’t even do that, they just sought to give Parliament the final say in the final hour to reject no deal if the Government sought to force it on the country. Why Labour didn’t vote to remove such power from a Tory PM, and give it to MPs as a whole, is utterly beyond me.
Anti-government activists
What? You mean "people"?
Just received a travel Warning from work.
Looks like it’s going to kick off from tomorrow.
Woohoo! I have an "excuse to work" from home but more like going to the pub early. 😅
Me anarchist friend will be protesting as he told me in advance and asked me to join, told him no free pints no join.
I need pints on Friday. 😀
Can't help but admire your principles chewy.
There seems to be an awful lot of frothing on here about something that was entirely predictable. All the outrage about subverting democracy rings a little hollow when the remain side of the argument has been trying for 3 years to overturn the result of a referendum which hasn’t yet been enacted.
More stinking bullshit.
We never voted for a type of brexit, that debate was to come after. Instead May and Corbyn enacted A50 and we are to get either Mays or Bojos brexit.
There has been no real democratic debate or accountability since the start of this. It has not been remainers stifling debate, it has been Mays government, the ERG and Corbyn stifling the debate.
You are disingenuous to the point that I suspect you are a brexiteer troll.
Can’t help but admire your principles chewy.
They are me friends but politically we are far apart 😂
I would join them if they pay me in pints but they wouldn't 🤣
As far as I know either way PM BoJo will come out smelling like a rose.
If he got a deal "all" the remainers will support him.
If he got a No Deal then "all" the leavers will support him.
It looks like PM BoJo got us all! 🤪
You are disingenuous to the point that I suspect you are a brexiteer troll.
+1
It has been a good run, though. We have gone from ‘working class lad done good who still has the ear of the common people’ through ‘pragmatic socialist’ and most recently ‘constructive-destructive eco warrior’. The chameleon-like changes have been gradual enough not to attract attention easily. Between threads of argument rather than within them.
We’ve had the occasional provocation too, usually when a reaction hasn’t been forthcoming immediately. Comparing the EU to a dictatorship at one point, claiming the EU won’t actually allow anyone to leave the most recent casting of the hook.
A bit of deflection too (this will all seem like a storm in a teacup compared to climate change). Despite it being bleeding obvious that MORE international cooperation is the only way effective climate change action will come about.
Admirable in some ways.
You are disingenuous to the point that I suspect you are a brexiteer troll.
+1..
Stand back everyone. Jeremy has written a strongly worded statement.
I do love a good statement
Ken Clarke / sky
The former chancellor, who is the longest-serving male MP in the Commons, said he would be prepared to support the Labour leader if it meant stopping Britain leaving the EU without an agreement in place at the end of October
Cue: Magic Grandad, gardening, useless unicorns, blah, blah, Monty Python, waffle, impossible, never going to happen, no deal, mushrooms, blah, hysterics, Rory Stewart, sailing towards no deal again, disaster capitalism, Marxists, Corbyn, Brexit lover..
Ken Clarke’s interviews today have been great… the Channel 4 one had so many cheeky knowing smiles…
What was the rest of your post about?
Oh, I especially appreciated him openly calling the Conservatives now running the government “English Nationalists” again and again… sums up exactly what the wider political battle is now about. And he’s right.
kelvin
Subscriber
Oh, I especially appreciated him openly calling the Conservatives now running the government “English Nationalists” again and again… sums up exactly what the wider political battle is now about. And he’s right.
Absolutely. Since Brexit became a fully fledged religion it's been pretty clear that Scotland and NI...hell the Union in general, is inconsequential to many Leavers. Particularly Tory Leavers.
I think they are indifferent to Wales particularly as we might need to reopen all the coal mines for the new steam powered HS2.
Absolutely. Since Brexit became a fully fledged religion it’s been pretty clear that Scotland and NI…hell the Union in general, is inconsequential to many Leavers. Particularly Tory Leavers.
I think they are indifferent to Wales particularly as we might need to reopen all the coal mines for the new steam powered HS2.
Won’t we need the engineers from Scotland, you know, like in Star Trek?
^^ Possibly but Scotland as a whole doesn't seem to be docile enough these days. Might allow them in on a strict points based system and pledge of allegiance to the Blond Wizard of London.
I suspect you are a brexiteer troll.
i can genuinely guarantee that I’m the very opposite. I’m still as pro-remain now as I was in 2016, Even more so given everything that’s happened.
But of course anyone who refuses to join in with the hysteria and snobbery must be on the other side right?
But of course anyone who refuses to join in with the hysteria and snobbery must be on the other side right?
This is right from the alt-right/far-right playbook, anyone who takes issue with the derangement of democracy is an elitist snob - at the same time anyone who disagrees with you is anti-democratic and opposed to the will of the people.
So you either out of ignorance or naivety, believe in your frankly dangerous world view or you are an alt-right troll.
He's deleted this tweet now from June.
how many people have already re-teeted it?
If nothing else, the guys in charge are red-hot, nothing gets past them.
https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status/1166765868891725825
Given that some of that industry have ensured the flow continues by placing both ends of it within the EU, that's quite some genius on display there.
how many people have already re-teeted it?
where do you look, Titter ?
how many people have already re-teeted it?
where do you look, Titter ?
Bra-vo
Surely the point of being a 'caretaker' PM is that you don't enact any policies?
Or at the most, only a pre-agreed set / agenda.
But of course anyone who refuses to join in with the hysteria and snobbery must be on the other side right?
I'm afraid that we're still in a situation where half the country refuses to listen to the other half. The difference now is that the "wrong" half is in charge, so those used to getting their own way in life don't like it very much. And I say that as a fully paid up middle class remainer.
Or at the most, only a pre-agreed set / agenda.
Watch the Channel 4 news Clarke interview … he made precisely that point … agreeing and setting out that agenda is what really matters.
This lot are at least consistent.
Steve Barclay seems to have the same comprehensive and highly informed knowledge of how international trade functions as Dominic Raab
The difference now is that the “wrong” half is in charge, so those used to getting their own way in life don’t like it very much.
“Half” the country are not “in charge”… a small group around Johnson, Raab, Mogg etc are in charge, and they are quite used to “getting their own way in life”.
the remain side of the argument has been trying for 3 years to overturn the result of a referendum which hasn’t yet been enacted.
If you aren't trolling then why do you persist in these lies?
No-one is trying to overturn anything. The referendum, and I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned before, was mandatory - it was established in court that May triggered A50 of her own volition. If the referendum was declared unlawful tomorrow it would change nothing. There is, literally, nothing to overturn.
There is, literally, nothing to overturn.
Why do you persist with this bollocks? You know perfectly well that the Cameron government was committed to taking us out of the EU in the event of a Leave vote, as were the May and now Johnson governments.
Yes, that is their political choice. With most of their voters being fervently anti-EU… and needing to win back voters currently supporting the Brexit Party, it makes political sense to ride that horse to stay in power. The referendum was advisory… but any Tory PM would be foolhardy to oppose Brexit at this point (and arguably foolhardy to oppose a No Deal Brexit).
Half” the country are not “in charge”…
Probably because they won't fit round the Cabinet table. But you knew what I meant.
Yes, that is their political choice.
To deliver on a clear promise? The bastards.
Exactly … their promise, their choice. Nothing to do with the Referendum being binding as regards any policy, on any government, or any parliament.
No-one is trying to overturn anything.
Is that the new trick in remainer logical acrobatics? That brexit never happened? Of course it didn't, what the hell has all the fuss been about, it was just a figment of May's imagination! And people wonder why the leavers are winning.
Nothing to do with the Referendum being binding as regards any policy, on any government, or any parliament.
Give it up man. The people were invited to vote for a govt which promised a referendum, and they did. The govt promised to enact the result of the referendum whatever it was, and the people made a decision. They now expect that promise to be delivered on. There were no caveats, no side clauses, no loopholes. They asked a question, they got an answer. It's that easy.
Exactly … their promise, their choice. Nothing to do with the Referendum being binding as regards any policy, on any government, or any parliament.
It had everything to do the referendum, because the subsequent actions were made perfectly clear to the electorate, and were confirmed at the last general election Arguing otherwise is pathetic whining from those who didn't get their own way.
There is a different and valid argument that no-one voted for No Deal.
Is that the new trick in remainer logical acrobatics? That brexit never happened? Of course it didn’t, what the hell has all the fuss been about, it was just a figment of May’s imagination! And people wonder why the leavers are winning.
You haven't drunk enough kool aid.
Is that the new trick in remainer logical acrobatics?
Yeah, it's to counter leavers' "fabricating things and presenting it as fact" tactic.
That brexit never happened?
It hasn't.
And people wonder why the leavers are winning.
I think most of us are well aware of why they're winning.
I think most of us are well aware of why they’re winning.
Because they won a referendum by a clear margin. Not what I or many others wanted, but that's the simple reality.
So @Dazh… are you now against Labour policy? Will you still be voting for them? Or are you now fully behind the Tories and their policy to deliver Brexit come what may with no further vote first?
are you now against Labour policy? Will you still be voting for them?
No, and yes. I think I've made my thoughts on a second referendum clear, it's a bad idea that won't solve the problem. But as many have said, it's not contradictory to ask the people to confirm their support for a deal once they know the detail.
Just because remain lost (sorry, they did), doesn't stop people continuing to make the case that it's a mistake. But it has to be done honestly and openly, not with these silly logical gymnastics or fringe manoevres. If people agree then they'll vote in a govt which promises to change things, and will vote in a new referendum to either continue with brexit or stop it. Labour offer that opportunity.
We should be clear though that there is no mandate for no deal, and the people never supported it. Remainers shouldn't confuse that though for not supporting brexit at all.
So… the referendum held in 2016 was advisory, it is not binding on this or future governments and parliaments, and it is now a political choice whether to plow ahead and leave come what may, or pause and have a vote on whether to do so.