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scotroutes
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And to think there’s a by-election in Shetland coming up with this as the Tory campaign leaflet
The SNP were already pretty confident they'd take the seat, not sure if this helps or not..
Either way GE now a huge gamble for Johnson how many other moderate Tories has Johnson alienated today ?
The SNP were already pretty confident they’d take the seat, not sure if this helps or not..
The incumbent was Tavish Scott, LibDem, so I'm not sure it'll have much impact. Jo Swinson hasn't put in an appearance during the campaign. It would be a pretty whopping turn-around for an SNP win though. I can't calculate swings but he took the seat with 67% of the vote last time, SNP on 23%.
Anyone else curiously excited by all this?
No. We’re in a no win situation now where all possible outcomes will be detrimental to the UK, and the people I know and love that live in it (and some that don’t). It’s all about limiting the damage now… and I don’t understand those that find the damage exciting (except for those that think they can gain personally from the damage of course… their motives at least can be understood).
29 or 27.5?
One of each.
Maybe not that confident then☺️ but sturgeon visited 3 times hopeful!
how many other moderate Tories
Are there many of those left?
I don’t understand those that find the damage exciting
I think I covered that on the previous page.
You listed some labels that could be applied to some of these people… that doesn’t really help me understand them… except for those who think they can make gains off the back of the damage… those excited with nothing really to gain… they just look hollow to me.
Anyone missing Theresa yet?
Re Shetland, every seat in Scotland is in play for the SNP, 2015 proved that. I don't think they'll win it, not this time anyway but they'll fight it. (because, frankly, they've spent the last 20 years battling in seats they'll never win, then winning them)
"Anyone else curiously excited by all this?"
Aye, but then crashing my car was exciting.
With Davidson quitting, SNP are going to win lots more seats.
Re Shetland, every seat in Scotland is in play for the SNP, 2015 proved that.
That SNP surge was off the back of the lib dem tory coalition though..
Tories always get a tiny vote share there..
If you look at the history, apart from that one time, it's very much a Liberal democrat area.
That SNP surge was off the back of the lib dem tory coalition though..
Not so sure about that Mattyfez. I think it was because the unionist vote split and the independentist vote didn't.
Three ways this could all turn out ok(ish):
1. Donald Tusk and his mates think that Boris is indeed mental enough to go ahead with no deal, and decide to capitulate on the WA in some way. Utterly unlikely to happen, they seem to have stronger principles than we do.
2. On October 29th, Boris addresses parliament, points out that whatever deal is now on the table is absolutely unarguably the best deal there will ever be, having pushed everything to the furthest brink imaginable, and then puts some options to parliament, possibly including no deal, the existing WA, withdrawing A50 or a binding public referendum. Ideally, he points out just what a nutjob you would actually need to be to want no deal, which coming from him might calm the riots a little. He then calls Farage a silly clot, and then implements the choice of parliament.
3. Someone, somewhere, negotiates an option to rejoin the EU at a later date. We have a few years of apocalypse, then come crawling back and serve as the warning to other members whose right-wing elements get twitchy.
Donald Tusk and his mates ... decide to capitulate on the WA in some way.
They've agreed to everything we've put in front of them so far, it's our lot that can't agree with itself. I'm not sure what capacity there is for capitulation there.
What a day!
Nothing says "take back our democracy" like shutting down an elected parliament, by an unelected leadership.
Bloddy hell.. I have an Irish grandparent, so I'm seriously looking at getting a proper passport, it's not a cheap procedure though, and I can lll afford it, but I'm viewing it as an investment.
I’m one generation too late to get my Irish passport. I’d wanted my kids to have them too. My mum and dad have got theirs, so they don’t have to endure whatever shit a blue passport will now bring at customs
Has the Queen sign the death warrant for royalty?
We need to get rid of this whole obnoxious structure of privilege from the Queen to the House of Lords.
And imprison any politician who takes money from a foreign country or source.
it's hardly the queen or the HOL that appear to be the problem right now, is it?
Even after the last farcical three years, today feels like a line has been crossed. Well and truly.
I think what’s about to come will now be very very different from what’s gone before.
Unfortunately, the change of mood means it’s got the potential to get a lot more violent. And not just in Ireland.
I know the term ‘Poundland Trump’ has been derided, but I think it’s pretty accurate. Everything he’s doing is straight out of the Bannon playbook
We now seem to have a Prime Minister who is acting like a dictator, is clearly unencumbered by any morals or principles, is happy to pander to far right extremists and seems to revel in sowing division
I’ve not felt this much anger since the height of Thatcherism. And I know i’m Not alone in that. This is not going to end well
Del
it’s hardly the queen or the HOL that appear to be the problem right now, is it?
All part of the democratic deficit in this country.
But the main problem is politicians bribed to act against the interests of this country.
The UK has been sold out by a 'parcel of rogues'.
Most Scots will recognise the irony in that.
To echo something said above, I've not felt this angry and helpless since I was a kid in the 80s.
Whatever happens next (barring some bizarre and frankly unlikely legislative rescue) we're fubared.
Prorogue stands and we crash out. Fubared. Economy knackered. Civil unrest. Return of The Troubles. Totally divided nation. End of the Union.
Really feels like today is a turning point in our politics and history.
Really feels like those who have suggested that true democracy was a 20th Century blip and we're now resetting to a more dictatorial, extremist norm night be right...
Dad is a Scot, hoping that's my way out (or my way in I guess) in a couple of years, but not sure where my wife stands in that event?
Sadly, I suspect as a nation we're too apathetic to do anything about it. We should be on the streets right now?
We aren't there yet.
And let's not forget that the anger is on both sides. That's the real horror.
Leavers that see any attempt to block Boris and No Deal as virtual treason. Remainers that see today as the death of even a remote dream of ending Brexit.
I still don't think there will be real civil unrest till tangible effects are felt though.
Medicines running out.
Food.
Fuel.
Any two of the above happen in November all bets are off and it will get violent.
You know a remainer in your road? A Leaver? Need to exact some vengeance merited or not?
Of course the ones that genuinely merit "vengeance" will be insulated by money and power. Not to mention,oh the irony, distance. Ferreted away to foreign lands.
EDIT: Those that remember the 80's certainly remember the miners strike. This government is far more malignant than Thatcher's. It won't be cops putting down strikes, it will the army putting down city wide unrest. Initially in London then beyond.
Anyone thinking this government will flinch from ordering live fire to be used let only look back at the Troubles.... There lies yet another flashpoint.
Holy shit. It's frightening and I hope to God I'm wrong.
I can't help wondering if November 5th will have special significance this year? Probably be around the right timescale for any shortages to be noticed
If anyone’s wondering when the civil unrest and violence might start, the Tory Party conference in a couple of weeks is in...
Manchester
Specifically, GMEX, the site of Peterloo
Specifically, GMEX, the site of Peterloo
Well now we know where all that much advertised spending on the police is going to be going.
odds on the withdrawal agreement reappearing in the last week before 31st october. Giving MPs the choice of no deal or May's agreement and no time for anything else?
Giving MPs the choice of no deal or May’s agreement and no time for anything else?
I am not sure. Remember most of Johnsons backers want a hard brexit since thats where the profit will really be made.
Assuming BoJo and his cronies manage to shutdown/filibuster any anti-no-deal-Brexit legislation in the time available, which would presumably trigger a VONC, I wonder if there's an option for the EU to announce something like a cooling off period where post-October 31st we could rejoin immediately on a temporary basis until a 2nd referendum was held following a GE?
I guess I'm clutching at straws but I'd love to see the EU out-manoeuvre BoJo and the current government's legacy being a couple of weeks of Brexit chaos followed by the Tories being unelectable for a generation.
With Davidson quitting, SNP are going to win lots more seats.
The SNP were going to take back most of those Tory seats anyway. Davidson had pitched herself firmly on a bit of political ground, unionist, centerist, control of the fishing and Johnson has just swept that from under her.
I doubt the snp will take Shetland
I've never been so angry at politics. Today I'm joining the SNP and will do whatever I can to help Scotland break away from those arseholes in Westminster.
I guess I’m clutching at straws but I’d love to see the EU out-manoeuvre BoJo and the current government’s legacy being a couple of weeks of Brexit chaos followed by the Tories being unelectable for a generation.
That assumes they want to go to the effort to try to keep us. I wouldn’t, would you? All through this I have only really been vexed on one issue. Would I prefer the EU to demean itself to ‘help’ us or do I want the EU to stand firm (rightly), so this nonsense is exposed for what it is.
The EU’s stance with ‘our’ ‘government’ all along has been that the real answers and solutions have to come from the country that is causing those issues.
Much as I would love to see Boris get his comeuppance, it won’t come from the EU. In keeping, it is going to be up to us to get rid of this bunch of crooks. I wouldn’t necessarily rule out methods other than the ballot box.
I am not sure. Remember most of Johnsons backers want a hard brexit since thats where the profit will really be made.
and once out what is to stop the extremists ripping up the agreement.
and once out what is to stop the extremists ripping up the agreement.
That was always the major flaw of the agreement anyway. In this case though, why would they bother pretending?
That was always the major flaw of the agreement anyway. In this case though, why would they bother pretending?
Because MPs are gullible enough to believe that the executive wouldn't do it. Didn't Mogg go for the deal last time?
Didn’t Mogg go for the deal last time?
I thought Johnson voted for it too?
Tbh I don't think this changes much, no deal still happen, all thats happened is that remained MPs have less parliamentary time to argue over what to do next.
What it does do is make the referendum look even more illegitimate, the likes of Cummings admitting lying helping them win, the dodgy payments, pretending no deal was the plan all along-when really they sold it as the easiest deal in history.... it gives the remoaners ammo to keep attacking Brexit
If Johnson forces it through this way, it will just fuel that discontent more, and far from moving on from brexit, we'll be even more divided than ever.
It's also seriously damaged him in Scotland with the loss of Davidson & alienating more moderate Tories
Brexit & it's creators are toxic to the country
so this nonsense is exposed for what it is.
Sadly I think this is wishful thinking. We live in a society that can be manipulated by some Facebook ads and lies painted on the side of buses. BoJo & cronies are spending far more time laying the groundwork for blaming no deal on the EU than actually trying to work out a deal - the thing that angers me is chances are they're going to be successful in blaming this shit show on the EU.
If our economy really does tank post-no-deal-Brexit and the Brexit supporters lose their jobs etc. they'll easily be 'persuaded' that the EU is where they should be directing their anger and not at BoJo.
Maybe I'm wrong and this will all end up with BoJo having to seek asylum in the US, Trump agreeing and then both of them fleeing to NK once Trump is ousted there.
Dad is a Scot, hoping that’s my way out (or my way in I guess) in a couple of years
I'll be honest, this viewpoint is beginning to piss me off. If you see the good ship Scotland as some sort of life raft to escape the horrors of what's happening on this sinking island then you should be in it, helping to row away from the shore, not running after it once it has sailed, waving your hands in despair. It'll never be easier to relocate than it is now.
scotroute>
I’ll be honest, this viewpoint is beginning to piss me off. If you see the good ship Scotland as some sort of life raft to escape the horrors of what’s happening on this sinking island then you should be in it, helping to row away from the shore, not running after it once it has sailed, waving your hands in despair. It’ll never be easier to relocate than it is now.
I totally get that, and would love to but the practicalities aren't always that straightforward. If I could have dual citizenship (or even sole Scottish citizenship) regardless of Brexit I would anyway for personal reasons.
TBH, it's clutching at straws time.
I suspect we'll see aspects of the Civil Contingencies Act that were much mooted when it was enacted invoked by the Home Sec to quell widespread unrest if it begins. Anger doesn't begin to describe how I feel about the whole mess. It should never have come to this.
TBH, it’s clutching at straws time.
Forgot to add, it would also be another way of openly expressing my feelings about the EU and my place in it. Quite a good symbol of opposition to the current situation.
Boris may well get to use his water cannons after all
I’d love to see the EU out-manoeuvre BoJo and the current government’s legacy being a couple of weeks of Brexit chaos followed by the Tories being unelectable for a generation.
There's nothing for the EU to out-manoeuvre He's gone through the motions, pretended to discuss things with Merkel and Macron, but is anyone seriously negotiating with the EU or proposing backstop alternatives on our behalf?
So now we're pretty much locked on course. Once MPs sit again they'll have two weeks, during which I'm sure BoJo, Moggy and their cohorts will do their best to stuff the agenda with fluff and slow any debates or votes on legislation against no-deal Brexit.
The only ones being out-manoeuvred are the British people by an aligned and organised Alt-right/Far-right, disaster capitalist coalition that have already seized power and once the formality of Brexit is out of the way we'll get to see how they carve the UK up...
What it does do is make the referendum look even more illegitimate, the likes of Cummings admitting lying helping them win, the dodgy payments, pretending no deal was the plan all along-when really they sold it as the easiest deal in history…. it gives the remoaners ammo to keep attacking Brexit
Unfortunately after Halloween that's all we'll be "Remoaners" regardless of how much "ammo" they give us the thing we most feared (not just Brexit but a No-deal Brexit) will have happened. continued complaint will be fruitless at that point.
I think the whole thing is over, sewn up with no more deals to be done and very little point in BoJo and Co. bothering to tell many more lies. the bastards have basically won...
Boris may well get to use his water cannons after all
They got sold at a massive loss to the taxpayer. I believe they have already been scrapped. If not I guess he could go to the tories magic money forest and buy them back at a nice markup.
I think the whole thing is over, sewn up with no more deals to be done and very little point in BoJo and Co. bothering to tell many more lies. the bastards have basically won…
Someone gets it. Trump is rubbing his little hands together so fast that we’ll soon be covered in his glee.
We live in a1930s German society that can be manipulated bysome Facebook adsradio and TV and lies painted onthe side of busesnewspaper.BoJoAdolph & cronies are spending far more time laying the groundwork for blamingno dealeverything on theEUforeigners than actually trying towork out a dealfix anything
I assume we've already mentioned Hitler and all that stuff.
little point in BoJo and Co. bothering to tell many more lies
The lies will increase not decrease… there is a post Brexit election to win… and (re)uniting the Conservative and Brexit Party votes can only be achieved by doubling down.
I know that Rees Mogg lives in an alternative universe, in some stationary orbit around the planet 1873, but he's surpassed himself with the utter claptrap he's been spouting this morning.
Apparently a no deal Brexit will massively strengthen the union
Yes, of course it will, you haunted ****ing pencil. The Irish and Scottish will be massively more predisposed towards Westminster once the government has driven their respective economies off a cliff.
The terrifying thing is, these lunatics aren't just trolling us all, you can see that they actually believe this shite. They really are that detached from reality
Someone gets it. Trump is rubbing his little hands together so fast that we’ll soon be covered in his glee.
Bojo and Trump's mates at the helm of Haliburton and Academi and Pfizer and whatnot are the real glee spoogers. They'll soon be enjoying the benefits of a Singapore style zero-transparency zero-tax zero-hours zero-rights corporate environment to house their company operations in.
The other thing that galls, is the irony of people like Rees Mogg (remind me, son of a newspaper owner, co-founder of Somerset investment fund, earned 7 million from that since the referendum?) being painted up as men of the people, heroes who are sticking it to the man, by the Brexit lot, is just unreal. These guys have all been born with a silver spoon literally shoved so far up the arse it has fallen out their mouth, and they have never expressed a genuine syllable of care for the country, its future or its people.
I despair at the populace of the UK being taken in by it all.
The terrifying thing is, these lunatics aren’t just trolling us all, you can see that they actually believe this shite. They really are that detached from reality
The really terrifying thing is that they've made huge swathes of the ordinary, largely ignorant, punters believe it too.
I watched the news last night and it was full of man-in the street vox pops of pensioners saying ......"Good on ya Boris! Give us what we want!"
The new Brexit World Order:
Take back control... by shutting down parliament
Respect the will of the people... by avoiding any future referendums
Control our borders... by having no plan about our only land border with the EU
Increase free trade... by leaving the worlds largest free trade area
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength
The terrifying thing is, these lunatics aren’t just trolling us all, you can see that they actually believe this shite. They really are that detached from reality
Some do, some dont. Where Rees-Mogg lies I am not sure. He has certainly shown himself completely capable of putting aside any principles to make some cash.
In breaking news well done to Lord Young for displaying some principles and resigning. Time to see if any others follow.
Rudd has already been busy dodging when asked about her quotes against prorogation.
Bojo and Trump’s mates at the helm of Haliburton and Academi and Pfizer and whatnot are the real glee spoogers. They’ll soon be enjoying the benefits of a Singapore style zero-transparency zero-tax zero-hours zero-rights corporate environment to house their company operations in.
And in another demonstration of how far through the looking glass we've come in the last 3 years, one of the main cheerleaders of the Brexit that will enable this corporatist, tax-dodging, workers-rights-shredding, neoliberal playground has been the leader of the countries biggest trade union, Len McClusky. Surely now the dictionary definition of the term 'useful idiot'
Apparently a no deal Brexit will massively strengthen the union
Yes, of course it will, you haunted ****ing pencil. The Irish and Scottish will be massively more predisposed towards Westminster once the government has driven their respective economies off a cliff.
Expect Devolution to reverse. Powers will be transferred back to Westminster. Other Governments/Assemblies will be suspended.
Exactly… there is more than one definition of “strengthen the union”. Taking powers from the devolved bodies, destroying all Ireland cooperation, stopping votes on independence… all could be seen as moves to strengthen the union, even if very unpopular outside England.
Bojo and Trump’s mates
Putin is also laughing his tits off at this point (in between firing up the troll army to pour shit into peoples heads via Facebook/Twitter).
Dad is a Scot, hoping that’s my way out (or my way in I guess) in a couple of years
It shows what a sorry state of affairs we have when we're clinging onto some utopian belief that Scotland would become the poster child of the EU and prosper. Have you read the GERS detailed analysis and actually ignored the spout of bo-lax from the SNP who have run the country down ? See if you live here, you can see the split between rich and poor even more evidently than ever. Independence is an answer to a different question, what Boris and his marey bunch of publicly educated, rich cronies are doing is self serving nonsense. But, that sadly is what we voted for in the majority-maybe.
There seems to be an awful lot of frothing on here about something that was entirely predictable. All the outrage about subverting democracy rings a little hollow when the remain side of the argument has been trying for 3 years to overturn the result of a referendum which hasn't yet been enacted. This was the inevitable result of the failure to reach a compromise, and if we do leave with no deal (which I still don't think will happen), then the continued efforts of the remain side to stop brexit will share as much responsibility as the rightwing nutters. This is what happens when you decide to go for all or nothing.
Anyway, I predict May's deal with be resurrected and passed at the last minute, and then an election will be held with Boris claiming the middle ground and victory over both remainers and the ERG. The threat of no deal has never been to get the EU to change their minds, but to change the minds of MPs, and it'll probably work.
All the outrage about subverting democracy rings a little hollow when the remain side of the argument has been trying for 3 years to overturn the result of a purely advisory referendum which was short on facts and scrutiny.
FTFY HTH
Anyway, I predict May’s deal with be resurrected and passed at the last minute, and then an election will be held with Boris claiming the middle ground and victory over both remainers and the ERG. The threat of no deal has never been to get the EU to change their minds, but to change the minds of MPs, and it’ll probably work.
Agree
From abroad it seems the reaction to BJ antics is a lot stronger than anticipated??
Not so hopeful of a miracle deal from BoJo here. As soon as he offers MPs a vote on anything he knows it will be amended, and that carries the risk of his plan being derailed. Though it's true that starting a new parliamentary session overcomes Bercow's objections to bringing forward the WA again, so this could be part of a cunning plan.
I've never felt so utterly devoid of any voice in how my country is run. And that's from someone who lives in a seat that's so safe you could pin a blue rosette on a traffic cone and it'd win with a landslide.
FTFY HTH
Still banging the 'it was only advisory' drum? Pointless straw-clutching I'm afraid, and that argument was lost a long time ago.
Johnson wants (needs) to win over Brexit Party voters so he can call an election and give himself at least five years as PM… what kind of Brexit gives him those votes? That’s all you need to be looking at now… the fig leaf of looking for a Deal is essential to keep his MPs on side… (and arguably to defuse any legal action) …a deal that is opposed by the ERG frothers and Farage is not going to happen though… it might get through Parliament, but it would mean Johnson’s premiership is short lived… he’s planning on staying around longer than that.
that argument was lost a long time ago
No, we are still in the EU because the referendum was advisory, and it is down to government and MPs to take us out of the EU, if and when it happens. The referendum advised them to take us out… it had no actual effect other than to inform politicians what the public wanted. All Brexit legislation relies on government and MPs to interpret and act based on the result of the referendum… it enacted not a single thing directly.
This is the first thing I have ever written down on this and I’m planning on it being the last.
I was and am a remainer, even though I know the EU has its problems I believe we are stronger in that out and I was very pissed when we lost, but I came to the conclusion that even though some people seemed to based their leave vote on lies and half truths, we still lost and therefor we do have to leave.
The list of people I blame for the result is very long and there are many ifs and buts, but the vote was democratic and that’s that. That said, I will say say I said to everyone who would listen, that Northern Ireland was going to be the sticking point in any negotiations. I’m old enough to remember the “troubles” and have no wish to see them return and just for that reason alone I believe we should have never voted to leave.
We have negotiated poorly, it should have been a cross party team, with agreed goals. This would have given us some sort of strength at the table. But everyone, on all sides has only been interested in petty politics and point scoring and doesn’t give a shite about the rest of the country. The EU can clearly see the devisions and it would seem they have always know we couldn’t get any deal or a no deal through parliament, so they have held all the cards from day one, well played by them I say.
If I’m being honest my hope was we could get a good deal, although I never for a minute believed it would be “the easiest deal in history”. I secretly hoped a case could be made where we could have a vote on it, but even that feels a bit of cheat.
I’m forever an optimist so I’m going to try and look on the bright side. Although not remotely a fan of Bj, I think what he’s done is pure genius (im not sure if it’s by design or he has just stumbled on it), he has scared the hell out of everyone and I mean everyone that a no deal can now happen and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it... other than work together and find that solution before we leave. I’m hoping it focuses the hell out of some minds.
If (and it a big if) we do leave with no deal it will be a bumpy ride (a really bumpy one), but do we really think there will be civil unrest, mass food and medicine shortages. Please note I have a very poorly son who has 4 medicines that he relies on to control his seizure, so as they say “I have skin in the game”, I can’t see it. His mum works in pharmaceuticals and she’s not worried either.
I am worried about some things that could happen, yes, but as in life the stuff you worry about very long rarely happens, it’s the stuff you never saw coming that hits you full in the face at 3am. So it’s not worth worrying about.
If it goes south and the politicians really screw it up, there are millions of real people with jobs and businesses who will be looking for real solutions on day one and in them I have complete confidence in.
It shows what a sorry state of affairs we have when we’re clinging onto some utopian belief that Scotland would become the poster child of the EU and prosper. Have you read the GERS detailed analysis and actually ignored the spout of bo-lax from the SNP who have run the country down ? See if you live here, you can see the split between rich and poor even more evidently than ever.
So much toss in one post. It's difficult to know where to start.
Not so hopeful of a miracle deal from BoJo here.
It won't be a miracle deal, it'll be the one already agreed, and it will be passed with support from Labour. No doubt there'll be an tsunami of Corbyn-the-brexiteer hysteria on here afterwards, even despite the fact everyone's been calling for him to do whatever it takes to prevent no deal.
Why would Johnson, Raab, Mogg etc push through the existing Withdrawl Deal now?
do we really think there will be civil unrest, mass food and medicine shortages.
"do we really think" there will be medicine shortages?
There already are.
Why would Johnson, Raab, Mogg etc push through the existing Withdrawl Deal now?
Raab and Mogg won't, but Johnson will. At this point in time he relies on the ERG for support, that will not be required if he can pass the WA and claim to have done his job in taking us out as promised. He'll cast himself as the sensible one who did what was necessary to get it done, he'll have broad popular support in both his party and the country, and he'll be able to go into an election against the defeated remainers, safe in the knowledge that the ERG will support him over the prospect of a Corbyn govt.
It won’t be a miracle deal, it’ll be the one already agreed, and it will be passed with support from Labour.
Oh Christ! I agree with Daz on something again. I'll be going veggie next! 😉
I suspect (and hope) that this is all a ploy for Johnson to bring Mays deal at the eleventh hour, with some flowery words from the EU about the backstop and it'll sail through.
Where we disagree is that I can still see Grandad trying to whip his MPs to vote against it, as he really is that stupid, and ... you know... red unicorns when he's PM and all that.
But I can also see enough of his MPs telling him to stick it and vote with the government to overcome the Lexiteer/ERG alliance
This is what I'm hoping anyway, as this looks infinitely preferable to any of the other options out there. And surely even Boris must know that a no deal Brexit will see the Torys out of power for a generation
EDIT: John McDonnel has just stated that the Labour party will not support any Tory Brexit deal. Not just that they won't support 'No Deal'. They won't support ANY tory deal.
So much toss in one post. It’s difficult to know where to start.
Go on, indulge yourself.
If Johnson now accepts the Withdrawl Agreement, and gets it through Parliament… and we then have a General Election during the transition period… the Brexit Party are here to stay, and Johnson’s premiership is over.
Where we disagree is that I can still see Grandad trying to whip his MPs to vote against it
I don't think he'll whip, it'll be a free vote, and he himself will probably abstain in order to hold together the two sides of the party.
the Brexit Party are here to stay, and Johnson’s premiership is over.
Doubt it. They'll say it's done and dusted, the majority will breathe a sigh of relief and the brexit party will be sidelined just like UKIP were with their fringe no deal obsession.
the vote was democratic and that’s that
I disagree. Democracy is not a guarantee of the best outcomes.
there are millions of real people with jobs and businesses who will be looking for real solutions on day one and in them I have complete confidence in.
Most small businesses are run by people who are just good at the thing they do (e.g. raising sheep). Most big ones can just move out. If it goes south the government will have to step in in a huge way, but that will take shit loads of money (that we will be less and less able to find), a will to take control of things (which Tories don't want to do), and competence (which is in severe shortage currently).
I don't see it going well.
but do we really think there will be civil unrest, mass food and medicine shortages
The government's own assessments say there will be.
there are millions of real people with jobs and businesses who will be looking for real solutions on day one and in them I have complete confidence in.
Lovely sentiment. However real people and real jobs have to comply with the laws and regulations of the country or countries they deal with. This is a good example:
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1164870815764140032
EDIT: John McDonnel has just stated that the Labour party will not support any Tory Brexit deal. Not just that they won’t support ‘No Deal’. They won’t support ANY tory deal.
Source? I can't find anything on the google.
Source: it was on the radio… World at One… Radio4… not on iPlayer yet.