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Given the bunch of clowns that are nominally in charge, that Yellowhammer report of complete chaos is looking like a best-case scenario.
We’re planning on doing what we did for the original March Brexit deadline and shoving the bikes and walking boots in the car and heading off to the middle of nowhere for the week, so we don’t have to be anywhere or doing anything in particular
Anyone else doing the same?
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1163034562978603009?s=19
You know what's gonna happen it'll be a shitshow, the chaos will hit those at the bottom hardest
And the usual suspects will find a way of blaming Meghan markel & Greta thurnberg
Who we have in charge at the moment aren’t really a government, in the real meaning of the word, it’s a junta
amusing & accurate article
https://www.ft.com/content/eaae31b2-c004-11e9-9381-78bab8a70848
This unstable combination of whingeing victimhood twinned with pompous self-regard has characterised much of Britain’s negotiations thus far.
What's depressing are the xenophobic & vitriolic comments from the leavers underneath!
Personally, ill be stocking up on fuel for Halloween, tinned foods and ready meals etc. It'll all get used if things turn out ok anyway but if they don't it can only be handy.
Stuffed with prescription meds though. Not worried about my own but my mother is on meds for glaucoma and vascular dementia which is really worrying if hit with supply issues.
All utterly unnecessary and all for something I DID NOT ******* FOR FOR.
Looks like corbyn is realising the parliamentary arithmetic.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-caretaker-pm-stop-no-deal-brexit-a9064616.html
That's good, but, is there time for a VONC, then presumably a commons vote for him to lead the interim government, and if he doesn't get the numbers, a second vote for someone else?
I suppose if they line up a second choice during the cross party talks, in preparation, a second vote could be held immediately after if corbyn doesn't get the numbers?
Personally I just want no deal stopped, if that's with corbyn or harman or Clarke, I really don't care.
We know the commons has already voted to rule out no deal, it's simply a question of getting the most paletable candidate to get a majority.
I just can believe any government, even a Tory one led by BJ, would put the country through this and expect for their party to ever be in power again
All they need is right-wing media collusion, a big spend on social media 'advertising' and they'll convince enough people it was the EU's or Remainers fault we couldn't get a great deal + £350m a week for the NHS.
Once the economic downturn hits and people lose their jobs then Nationalism will rise and the Tories are really the only electable Nationalist party so I think they're counting on Brexit chaos rather than worried about it (at least the far right element, there's a few moderate MPs left - for now).
Given the bunch of clowns that are nominally in charge, that Yellowhammer report of complete chaos is looking like a best-case scenario.
To be fair, they have taken a significant step towards mitigating the worst-case scenario by sacking Chris Grayling.
I suppose if they line up a second choice during the cross party talks, in preparation, a second vote could be held immediately after if corbyn doesn’t get the numbers?
Having a second choice pretty much ensures that Jeremy won't get the numbers. If he's going to step aside after discharging his duty to call VONC, then he should give someone else a go from the off.
I see everyone’s favourite asshole and all round shit bloke Aaron Banks has been trolling Greta Thunberg about ‘freak yachting accidents’. And to make it worse he has gone with the ‘oh, it is only banter, have a sense of humour’ defence.
I miss the days where even assholes had a bit of shame (or felt the need to fake it when they got called out), but now it seems that being as big an asshole as it is possible to be is a winning strategy.
Still, she must be doing something right to get this reaction. I imagine the likes of Banks et al tried their usual trawl through social media etc trying to find something to latch on to, but they can’t find anything.
End of FOM confirmed by nb 10.
That is going to be fun in November.
End of FOM confirmed by nb 10.
That is going to be fun in November.
They’ll lose the support of the likes of Wolfson over this, his ilk want (especially near Christmas) downward pressure on wages from foreign temp labour.
Just heard in the news that EU citizens won't be welcome to stay after the 31st.
I'm guessing that the same will be true for Brits in the EU.
****ity **** ****.
That's me then.
And to top it, the German GF and I were planning on being in the UK at the end of October for my old man's birthday.
Now having doubts whether we should travel or not.
I’m guessing that the same will be true for Brits in the EU.
My guess is you'll be fine in the EU. Why would France, Germany or any of the 27 want to deprive their economies of economically active Brits? Only Britain is stupid enough to shoot itself in the foot by ousting people with skills it needs.
I'm intrigued to see the formalities I'll have to go through to cross the channel with my French passport, I assume that the UK will still want my tourist Euros. Maybe they'll accept a very old black passport with the corner cut off.
This is just childish, bullying behaviour from the Poundland Trump. Will the arrogant man-baby ever accept that his tactics are the ones that will destroy the UK?
It's interesting that you lot take this all seriously - as I've said before, none of this stuff is actually going to happen.
Anyone remember all the people on here who were convinced that the withdrawal agreement was going to be voted through/we'd exit with a no deal months ago, despite all the signs to the contrary?
JP
as I’ve said before, none of this stuff is actually going to happen.
That's my only hope. That BoJo and his cronies are simply posturing as hard as possible knowing their promises will never happen, but if they appear committed then they can blame us remoaners when their evil plans collapse
End of FOM confirmed by nb 10.
That is going to be fun in November.
That’ll be fun trying to convince Northern Ireland....
Johnson will take us out with no deal if he can. Remember he is pandering to the tory right to stay pm.
I’m guessing that the same will be true for Brits in the EU.
The latest in Denmark seems to be if we're working and fully registered here we can stay. Denmark has a brexit plan, which seems to be a lot more than Britain has managed. Your government should have some kind of info on their website, though it's hard for countries to know what to do when we're making such a complete mess of it.
I’m guessing that the same will be true for Brits in the EU.
Nah. rEU (especially Germany) will want to take the moral high ground, plus they won't want to lose a fair few skilled workers all at once. It'd be terrible press too. The worse the UK gets, the more the rEU doesn't want to be like us.
And the worse Boris gets, the more likely we are to have our own Joseph Welch moment.
They’ll lose the support of the likes of Wolfson over this
Is he not dead?
Johnson will take us out with no deal if he can.
Absolutely he will… many of his supporters want the most damage as possible for the UK… they intend to make lots of money from the aftermath, and reshape the UK at speed to better fit their own aims. They won’t give a shit how it effects people already struggling to make ends meet, or living across borders without the means to brush away new bureaucracy and costs.
as I’ve said before, none of this stuff is actually going to happen.
Depends what you mean by stuff, do you mean a no deal Brexit itself or some of the things that have been touted as happening if we do have a no deal Brexit?
If the former then I admire your confidence, mine's long since evaporated. I just can't see how there can be a deal anymore (at least not without the EU shafting Ireland and going back on their own red lines). So with no deal that can be negotiated the only other hope is postponement but that would take a successful VONC and it seems JC being interim PM means that's unlikely.
If you mean much of the doom and gloom is over-stated and things will carry on as they are with maybe just a few delays at the borders then whilst we might not be facing an economic apocalypse on Nov 1st I think it's naive to think that the EU will just stay "yeah, ignore all our rules and regulations, we trust you - carry on as you were".
Forget about rules the EU sets… it’s international rules, such as WTO rules of origin, that make the whole idea of a business as usual No Deal exit just a blatant and obvious con, albeit from conmen with a very successful track record of getting away with it… …they are not being held to account for the lies of 2016, and they will not be held to account for this new bullshit after we leave either.
One of my Brexit voting colleagues is concerned 'we'll end up like Hong Kong' if we don't fulfil the will of the people and leave.
He wasn't impressed when I asked him to comment about the differences between the size of pro- and anti-brexit marches...
We know the commons has already voted to rule out no deal, it’s simply a question of getting the most paletable candidate to get a majority.
JC is so blind to how unpopular he is he can't see that there are others with wider appeal.
This "democratic" fulfilment of the "will of the people" is really getting me down. Three years, and there's still no definition of what it actually is!
It is basically "just get on with it, it is not complicated"
Appreciate that, its the plethora of versions of "it", that bugs me. Some of them incompatible with the others, but they're all in this bucket of "leave" that people are being sold.
According to my brexiteer cousin " no deal" was what they voted for so get on with it" Nothing will change her view on this despite the brexiteers during the referendum campaign all saying that we would have a deal and it would be easy.
Basically now the fantasies of the brexiteers have been shown to be nonsense they have changed what they are saying and revised history.
Idiots the lot of them
An old friend of mine & his wife who've made a life for themselves in southern France for the past 12yrs are rabid brexiteers - I have no idea why or how they think it will benefit them, unless they think the EU is going to crumble as a result 🤔
The government's behaviour has gone so far beyond farcial, I'm beggining to think BJ is actually trying to make it easy for parliment to vote no confidence in him so there has to be an election.
Some of them incompatible with the others, but they’re all in this bucket of “leave” that people are being sold.
That's detail, detail is not required to "just get on with it". It is so simple detail is not required.
@ferrals - the problem being those who are lapping it up, thinking that he's finally showing some robust negotiation, and is showing Johnny foreigner that we Brits won't be messed around.... 🙄
Say there was a GE before Brexit and the Tories got a big enough majority that they didn’t require the support of the DUP, could the back stop problem then be solved by putting the border down the Irish Sea?
Is this not the most logical compromise?
Say there was a GE before Brexit and the Tories got a big enough majority that they didn’t require the support of the DUP, could the back stop problem then be solved by putting the border down the Irish Sea?
Is this not the most logical compromise?
Yes it would work, but it would be a huge provocation to the DUP and their bonfire loving supporters
would also throw up big problems for NI businesses and their trade with UK, especially as johnson wants to diverge straight away
Is this not the most logical compromise?
That’s what the EU proposed originally. The current backstop that this government rejects was proposed by the last government. It’s almost as if A50 was triggered before there was an agreed plan on the UK side ready to begin negotiations with the EU (and then with others).
Our poundshop Trump gets his first slap from Merkel
"The moment we have a practical arrangement on how to preserve the Good Friday agreement and at the same time define the borders of the [European Union’s] internal market, we would not need the backstop anymore.
This means we would naturally think about practical solutions. And I’ve always said that when one has the will to find these solutions, one can do so in a short period of time. The EU is ready to find a solution."
According to Reuters, Merkel said this would not require the withdrawal agreement to be re-opened and was instead a question for the so-called political declaration on future relations.
It’s almost as if A50 was triggered before there was an agreed plan on the UK side ready to begin negotiations with the EU (and then with others).
I don't think it even needed an agreed plan.
It just need a plan.
And the thing about failing to plan is...
I'm all in favour of an internal UK border. Just draw it between Berwick and Carlisle.
Oh - and the Poundshop Trump epithet wasn't even funny the first time, now it's just tedious.
Ouch - that burns 😉
So we contacted the Home Office and said oh hi, we have about a thousand EU students and another 200 starting in 3 weeks, and your halfwit home secretary says she's ending freedom of movement on the 31st of October. What should we do about that? And they said, well we don't know. This advice incidentally is a premium service that we pay them for.
"Prepare for brexit"
Be interesting to see how many pull out.
Of course our own language (and other) students taking a year of their course in other EU countries could do with some information from the government as well…
Oh – and the Poundshop Trump epithet wasn’t even funny the first time, now it’s just tedious
Substantially less tedious than 'our nationalism is better than yours', but by all means carry on.
I don't get it. The remain block is the most cohesive group, or at least ought to be. The leave faction is a collective of about 8 versions of leave, and there's only going to be one. How the **** are we still losing this argument!?
How the **** are we still losing this argument!?
because remain are playing the brexiteers game. Don't refute the lies, you can't. Sell what the EU offers. The downside, is brexiteers think the UK is special and more important than it is. The other issue, the media, you can't get around a largely pro-Brexit landscape.
How the **** are we still losing this argument!?
A whole number of reasons. The first being that remain did lose the argument, the second being that instead of accepting that and choosing to mitigate the fallout, that side of the argument decided to go full on militant (a little late I might add), the third that instead of listening they called everyone racists and idiots, and finally by directing their anger at politicians who weren’t at fault and supporting those who were.
Who would have mitigated the fallout, what would they have proposed, who would have taken it through parliament, how would the public be persuaded to accept it? What shape does this least worse Brexit take? What mandate was it based on? What, who, how… or shut up complaining about people not getting behind this undeclared thing.
There is no possibility of mitigation given the tories red lines.
The first being that remain did lose the argument
It wasn’t even an argument, that would suggest they listened at all. The referendum “debate” was an exercise in propaganda and populism.
the third that instead of listening they called everyone racists and idiots
I spent a lot of time listening. Do you want to know what I found. Pro death penalty, the NHS needs privatising, the problems with the NHS are largely the fault of immigrants that take the piss and steal everything not nailed down, they don’t want to pay tax, they don’t want to pay minimum wage, Europeans are a genuine enemy to the U.K., Scotland can go * itself bunch of subsidy scroungers anyway the “sweaty jocks”, Trump is a good guy, no deal is the best option, well make a success of it because we are basically superior to those Europeans and it’s them holding us back. And for good measure climate change isn’t much of an issue.
I hope to * the ***** I “listened to” form just a tiny minority of leave voters.
piemonster
Member
The first being that remain did lose the argument
It wasn’t even an argument, that would suggest they listened at all. The referendum “debate” was an exercise in propaganda and populism.
the third that instead of listening they called everyone racists and idiots
I spent a lot of time listening. Do you want to know what I found. Pro death penalty, the NHS needs privatising, the problems with the NHS are largely the fault of immigrants that take the piss and steal everything not nailed down, they don’t want to pay tax, they don’t want to pay minimum wage, Europeans are a genuine enemy to the U.K., Scotland can go * itself bunch of subsidy scroungers anyway the “sweaty jocks”, Trump is a good guy, no deal is the best option, well make a success of it because we are basically superior to those Europeans and it’s them holding us back. And for good measure climate change isn’t much of an issue.
I hope to * the ***** I “listened to” form just a tiny minority of leave voters.
Very much the same as I got from trying the challenging conversation with leave voters at work!
Mostly it was "I read it in the DM"
choosing to mitigate the fallout
by accepting a 'solution' that pleases only a fraction of those that voted leave. so now pretty much everyone is unhappy and poorer. or we could remain, so more people are happier, and everyone is not poorer. let me think.
Nice one Del
It's ok Johnson has a plan & it's a doozey
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1163963029924528133?s=19
that side of the argument decided to go full on militant (a little late I might add), the third that instead of listening they called everyone racists and idiots
The majority of the cases I have seen wasnt calling everyone racists and idiots but saying that a venn diagram of leavers and remainers had those two categories intersecting primarily with the leavers rather than remainers.
the problem being those who are lapping it up, thinking that he’s finally showing some robust negotiation, and is showing Johnny foreigner that we Brits won’t be messed around…. 🙄
Yep as I keep banging on he's been on a campaigning footing from the day he got the presidency.
All this stuff is just soundbites that get played back on the media.
A lot of people really aren't into politics they only get the 2 second sound bites on the telly and don't bother digging deeper.
The only option he had, (for his benefit and party) was to just force ahead with no-deal, a condition of the extension was to close the negotiation so unless he was going back with something that changed the read lines that was the offer.
If parliament blocks his no exit that will be used as propoganda for the upcoming election.
He's got to Out Brexit the Brexit party to get his number up which is why the shite rhetoric is being spouted.
How the **** are we still losing this argument!?
Because mostly.its not based on reason, it's based on emotion. You can't change that with a rational argument.
Because mostly.its not based on reason, it’s based on emotion. You can’t change that with a rational argument.
+1000
Dublin diverge from EU rules
Which side of the Irish border diverging makes most sense ?
I'm sure it's bindun on here but I've only just seen it:
Thing is the remainers have not lost the argument. Polls now clearly show a significant majority for remain. Thats a shift to remain - because we have won the argument
Why do you think leavers are so against another referendum -they know they would lose it
Good to see, as expected, Johnson has now said its all the remainers fault that we don't already have a fantistc deal.
That's his plan? He wants Ireland to leave the EU too? Flippin' heck.
As plans go, that's flawless. Of course they will.
I do believe he's just gone full retard.
Ian Holloway believes the EU is responsible for VAR and Brexit will get rid of it.
This is the level of stupidity you're up against with the stereotypical Brexiteer.
To paraphrase the Terminator movie
It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you have left the EU
https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1164058646634008579?s=19
That’s his plan? He wants Ireland to leave the EU too? Flippin’ heck.
At least its a bit more original and thought through than "new technology will solve everything". Leaving aside the teeny weeny flaw that Ireland wont go for it its an improvement.
I'm sure Jacob Rees Mogg likes this proposal. Given that he still thinks its the 19th Century.
What do you mean, we can't tell the Irish what to do any more?
What do you mean, we can’t tell the Irish what to do any more?
Country obsessed with sovereignty thinks it can tell a sovereign nation what to do
A lot of people really aren’t into politics they only get the 2 second sound bites on the telly and don’t bother digging deeper.
This is only partly true. Being into politics isn't exclusively the preserve of people who follow the news and argue about it on internet forums. It's true most people don't bother getting into it in detail, but that's because they have more important things to do, like working, running a family etc, and I think its probably fair to say that the majority of these are at the lower end of the income scale. I'd argue however they understand much more about politics than their better off politicos on the internet think, because they feel the direct impact of it on their lives through lower incomes, poorer or dissappearing public services which they depend on, and yes, even things like the much derided subject of local bus services.
Those of us who are better off are insulated from much of politics and government. It doesn't really affect us like it does those at the bottom. And those at the bottom feel like they've been cast aside and forgotten about. The further a government is from the people the more the people will hate it. That's why they don't like the EU.
The further a government is from the people the more the people will hate it. That’s why they don’t like the EU.
Try working for a local council for a while… and see what people really think about government “close” to them. Advise growing a thick skin first.
I'm not sure dazh.
For certain, the people at the bottom feel the impact more.
But I don't believe they understand it any more than those in the middle or the top.
I’m not sure dazh.
For certain, the people at the bottom feel the impact more.
But I don’t believe they understand it any more than those in the middle or the top
100%
Look at the things that get wrongly attributed to the EU. For example, years of Tory austerity cuts have decimated public services for those who need and use them the most, yet the leave campaign convinced those people that it was the fault of immigrants and the EU.
Well Johnson seems to be winning back the bxp voters
But Corbyn has lost those that go to the lib Dems...
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1164108955339120641?s=19
[gulps nervously] it's gonna be hard Brexit followed by austerity on steroids !
THose numbers don't quite add up - totals unly 94% (so some parties not included) and sum of change is +2.
Howeever, as Libs cosntnat and labour down; with only tories rising, it sugests labour votors switcing to tory, as incongrous as it sounds.
CON: 42% (+17)
LAB: 28% (-6)
Who said that coming out for a 2nd ref wouldn't lose Labour votes? Hmm.
I’d argue however they understand much more about politics than their better off politicos on the internet think, because they feel the direct impact of it on their lives
Disagree. Just because you feel the impact of something, doesn't mean you automatically understand that something. See the list of grievances people blame on the EU.
That’s his plan? He wants Ireland to leave the EU too? Flippin’ heck.
lots on twitter suggesting maybe he should offer to buy it instead...
Who said that coming out for a 2nd ref wouldn’t lose Labour votes? Hmm.
Labours problem is that their message is still not clear
May was not trusted by Leavers on Brexit, the tories replaced her with a true no deal brexiteer & won back bxp voters
Corbyn not trusted on brexit by remainers, Labour have stuck with him (& hes still not said he'd back remain in a 2nd ref) and the labour voters havent returned from the greens/libdems
the fact that you need a flow chart to understand labours stance on what is ultimately a binary issue is a huge tactical error
also the kantar poll may be an outlier , but there is a trend
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1163187539823345664
Because mostly.its not based on reason, it’s based on emotion. You can’t change that with a rational argument.
Absolutely bang on. And as an added bonus you can decry all argument as patronising or 'tactics'.
It is genius in its simplicity. Until you realise where it leads, of course.....
Yep, the two track denouncements of “Project Fear” and “out of touch elites” has been very very well executed. And those who led this approach are now in charge of the government, and the new “Conservative Brexit Party” that is likely to be just as successful at pushing aside any considered opposition. Especially when you add in the additional attack lines of “undemocratic” and “unpatriotic” that will be ramped up this year.
Who said that coming out for a 2nd ref wouldn’t lose Labour votes? Hmm
I won’t vote Labour while Corbyn leads the party. I think he’s an ineffective leader, and the only reason we’re in this situation is because of his pro-Brexit half-arsed opposition.
I also suspect that he’d be almost impossible to shift for years from his position if he ends up leading a caretaker government.
Who said that coming out for a 2nd ref wouldn’t lose Labour votes? Hmm.
Yep, and this is why Labour took the path they took originally.