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Grandad finally holds out his hand with sweets, the kids complain, “no, no, we don’t want them from you, we want someone else to give them to us!”
Complain about the “kids” all you want, or accept that a compromise in the national interest might not only be wise, but set your party up as one that holds the interest of the people at the heart of its objectives, just as we head into a general election… do what is needed to get that election (including dealing with the “kids”) and show you are the adults that the country should elect for 5 years or more to deliver the change you think is so important.
The onus is not on Corbyn to bend to a few MPs.
Indeed. Which is why someone else should be put forward who will bend to get enough MPs to support them just long enough to get an extension and an election. Let Corbyn stay pure ready to fight the election for Labour, not be a figure head supported by MPs from all parties.
Do you think there is time to agree on a new candidate?
Of course, it's just horse trading, shouldn't take more than an hour or so, there aren't that many names and they're all in the open and said they will step up, all it needs is a willingness to sit around a table and compromise.
The onus is not on Corbyn to bend to a few MPs.
Who cares who makes the first move, get over the fact that it's clearly tribal on both sides and it opens up any number of possibilities. The other side have said "Interesting, but not you, what else have you got?" Corbyn now has the chance to help delay/stop a no deal brexit, will he? D'you think?
This isn't engineering where there is just one solution, it's a bit of that and a bit of this...
EDIT: I will add this, This horsetrading for leadership amongst left and right is normal for most European governments who are used to coalition agreements and the compromise that goes along with it . It is however totally new to most UK parliamentarians and media, and are having to grapple with the new reality of no overall control. It's striking that the EU have remained one voice against the incapacity and indecision that marks ours
Goal post shifters, lot of them.
Even if Corbyn stands aside they won't be happy they will want something else.
Changukindycentredadstoryting were like this and look at them now. They're irrelevant. Flip flop chukka and his ship jumping.
Fighting only for a pretend remain and forgetting all the other shit stuff.
Not really bothered about the rough end of the UK either.
I do wonder why Tom Watson hasn't run a poll on twitter yet to vote Corbyn out.
You make a good case for a Labour government. Now… Labour need to do what needs doing to get an extension and an election, and then fight to get a Labour government with a mandate for all the changes it seeks, and for a referendum with a Remain option.
And still obsessing about Chukka & Watson… when there is a chance to throw out the Tories and force a general election within months… is… well…
Labour need to do what needs doing to get an extension
They already are. They have already made a huge compromise by offering to focus a new govt on a the single issue of extending A50 and holding a new election. Any other party would want to sieze power and hold on to it. It’s now up to the other parties and groups of MPs to compromise too in the interest of stopping no deal.
For me, it's not a question of not wanting my sweets from Corbyn, it's that I don't think there are sufficient numbers of the people who matter here (the MPs) who will take them from him. Hence the imperative to find a different sweetie man/woman, so that enough of those MPs can say, okay, I'll take sweeties from them, at least for a little while...
Just to get real for second, because however much you look at it you can’t take the politics out of it, if anyone thinks the Labour Party is going to plunge itself into a leadership crisis and massively damage their chances at the coming election by allowing a few Tory MPs and Libdems to dictate who their leader is then you are on another planet.
Yes, if Corbyn’s plan succeeds there could be a benefit for him and labour. There could equally be the opposite as there are still huge numbers of Brexiteers who will accuse them of betraying democracy. It’s a risk on both sides. The other parties/remain MPs need to recognise this and take some of the risk. In the nd it comes back to the simple question, do they want to avoid no deal or not?
Swinson, Hoey, Greive…all of them would have failed. Because none of them will raise themselves above their Party allegiances,
Swinson said in her letter to corbyn that the lib dems will vote against the government in a VONC. It's there in black and white.
It doesn't change the fact corbyn still doesn't have the numbers.
That's there in black and white too in Swinsons letter.
You're imaging things up! Read the letter, I even quoted the whole bloody thing for ease of reference.
if anyone thinks the Labour Party is going to plunge itself into a leadership crisis...by allowing a few Tory MPs and Libdems to dictate who their leader is then you are on another planet.
The same equally applies to those on the other side of the house. Greive has already seen off a threat of deselection from his own constituent party In all likelihood this will cost him his seat in the next GE. If it goes belly up, everyone is under threat from losing their seat, not just Labour politicians. Plus, y'know, this...
their chances at the coming election
Labour are NOT going to be in a position to form a majority government (because: Maths), probably no one will for the foreseeable future, stop fighting the last war...that's going to be the future of our governments from now on, it's about time they learned to work together.
As ever, Marina Hyde sums up this farce better than anyone...
‘National Unity’: the fantasy flick that will never make it out of development
The Liberal Democrats will do anything to stop Brexit, except for the things they won’t; Labour would love to stop the Tories’ version of Brexit, but first they just want to look busy and set this quick trap for the Lib Dems; the Greens want the headlines for a day and they’ve got a plan just batshit enough to secure them; and so on. Dominic Cummings must be cackling.
stop fighting the last war…that’s going to be the future of our governments from now on, it’s about time they learned to work together.
Absolutely this!
The days of majority governments are over for the foreseeable future, possibly for good.
That's no bad thing IMHO. So this situation would be an ideal opportunity for our political dinosaurs to try and drag themselves into the 21st century and acknowledge the new reality.
But then nobody in Westminster is really doing reality at the moment, are they?
Well, apart from Dominic Cummings. He certainly seems to get it
Jo Swinson
As I said before the start of the summer Recess, the Liberal Democrats will support a motion of no confidence in the government if it is brought before the House of Commons
Based on on-the-record statements that have already been made, at least seven MPs on the opposition benches have indicated they would not give you confidence in these circumstances. Regardless of how my party were to vote in those circumstances, in order for you to command the confidence of the House, at least eight Conservative MPs would need to support you in taking office. For this and other reasons, I do not believe your plan is viable.
I would be happy and keen to meet in the coming days to discuss how our parties can work together to stop “No Deal” and who else might be able to lead an emergency government.
Whos playing games now?
Um Jo Swinson? Plus everyone else. FFS.
Greive has already seen off a threat of deselection from his own constituent party In all likelihood this will cost him his seat in the next GE. If it goes belly up, everyone is under threat from losing their seat
Dominic Greive has been on the TV every other day warning about Brexit and especially No Deal but when it comes to the crunch he is a self serving hypocrite. FFS how old is he? How much money has he in the bank? He doesn't need to keep his seat.
Jo Swinson
Crikey 🤔
Dominic Greive ... is a self serving hypocrite.
You should listen to Ken Clarke suggesting himself to be the next PM 🤣
There isn’t a single politician of any party who emerges with any credibility from this farce.
All are putting themselves first, party second and the country a very very distant third
That they can all indulge in their petty point scoring when we’re literally staring at a cliff edge shows how utterly detached from reality they are
They’ll all be fine, of course, whatever happens
Then we leave with no deal then. It’s that simple
thing is well leave and then have to do some deal and looking at how successful the enterprise has been so far and the amount of money spaffd I can’t see the fun ending anytime soon.
I think the brexit gravytrains going to run an run without any wheels for years.
There isn’t a single politician of any english party who emerges with any credibility from this farce.
fixed that.
All are putting themselves first, party second and the country a very very distant third
I know you want things to be simple Binners but it's not that simple. Most of them voted against their personal views because the country voted to leave. So that's pretty much the opposite if what you said.
The person who put party before country was Cameron.
I know you want things to be simple Binners but it’s not that simple. Most of them voted against their personal views because the country voted to leave. So that’s pretty much the opposite if what you said.
Agreed. We keep forgetting that it was about trying to deliver the undeliverable.
The fact that it's stalled thus far is evidence to me that the system has sort of worked in that things have been tested.
Everything is in conflict.
But we still have to find away of supporting our democracy. I would like to think anything I voted for that got a majority would ultimately be delivered.
They have to find a way through.
The whole thing has proven to me that our politicians do not give two iota's how many suffer.
They would happily walk past the queues for food banks, the overflowing job centres and over a pile of corpses of those who can't get essential medicines if it got them slightly more power and money. Boris Johnson is the worst culprit but the fiddling whilst Rome burns shows they are (largely) all the same. Two faced ****ers.
I really couldn't care less about being British anymore. We are a joke
My feelings exactly.. I'm going to see how it plays out but I had an Irish grandparent, so I might well get Irish/duel citizenship and bugger off to Spain.
Worst can't express how I feel about the way this country is going. The only thing really keeping me in the UK is my English grandmother.
There isn’t a single politician of any english party who emerges with any credibility from this farce.
fixed that.
So did the SNP vote for May's Brexit deal? If not then they are complicit along with everyone else if we end up with no deal.
We keep forgetting that it was about trying to deliver the undeliverable.
I would like to think anything I voted for that got a majority would ultimately be delivered.
What if… now this may seem crazy… you were promised something undeliverable… voted for it along with a slight majority of voters… only to, years down the track, see something that looks entirely different being delivered off the back of your vote? Would you mind if politicians checked in with you to confirm that you, and at least half of voters, were happy for them to proceed?
So did the SNP vote for May’s Brexit deal? If not then they are complicit along with everyone else if we end up with no deal.
More revisionist Brexiteer nonsense, trying to apportion blame onto the other parties - the main reason we're in this mess is down to the ERG members of the Conservative party and there insistence on 'red lines' that virtually eliminated any other options. If they'd agreed to a CU, we wouldn't need the backstop which has resulted in abject failure to negotiate any sort of deal
Corbyn does NOT have to resign as leader of the labour party to put forward or accept a compromise candidate. He could still be leader of the labour party going into the next election.
One thing that is clear however is Swinson by her actions made any chance of agreement much more distant by antagonising many people.
?rone - its clear there is no majority for brexit now.
I agree with TJ, again.
Help! Its a rose garden moment. I feel defiled!
What if… now this may seem crazy… you were promised something undeliverable
But that is hindsight.
Would you mind if politicians checked in with you to confirm that you, and at least half of voters, were happy for them to proceed?
That's not how it works is it.
Tories deliver stuff all the time that goes against the grain and what is for the well-being of large swathes of people. To devastating effect.
But I/we have to live with it.
Sure we get a chance to vote them out every now and again but it doesn't appease Labour voters does it?
?rone – its clear there is no majority for brexit now
How can it be clear without an actual referendum?
Corbyn does NOT have to resign as leader of the labour party
In a normal world maybe not, but in the context of the fact that labour moderates have been using brexit as a vehicle to depose him it’s never going to happen. If if he was feeling extremely generous and was tempted to allow another candidate to be interim PM, the FPA makes it impossible as he’d never risk labour MPs voting against the new election, leaving whoever is PM in place til 2022 (and we all know they would do it).
No, the plan is on the table, it will work, and there is precious little time. It’s up to the MPs who have previously said they will put the interests of the country first to put their money where their mouths are. If they don’t, Johnson wins. As Kelvin used to like saying, the clock is ticking.
Well, if the temporary PM is just to ask the EU for an extension, so an election can then occur… why do they have to personally back a referendum? Corbyn’s letter makes it clear that a referendum would not be called by the temporary PM… and that would not come ‘till after the election. Clarke as temporary PM wouldn’t call a referendum. Corbyn as temporary PM wouldn’t call a referendum.
Clarke has been consistent in saying that this issue shouldn’t have been put to a referendum in 2016, and shouldn’t be again, hasn’t he? I don’t agree with him… thanks to the 2016 referendum I don’t think we can proceed with any option now… EU membership, some kind of soft Brexit EEA style, no deal, anything… without another referendum.
dazh
Subscriber
You have to laugh
That's because he's always been adamant we should just revoke it
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-frei/ken-clarke-revoke-article-50/
Why do the corbynites become so defensive they start lying ?
So you don’t see the conflict between wanting a PM who doesn’t want a second ref instead of one who has committed to providing one? It’s pathetic. The Lib Dem’s don’t care about stopping a no deal or a second referendum to stop brexit altogether. They only want what fits their short term agenda, which is avoiding an election so Swinson and Chukka don’t lose their seats. And this is the party that all you diehard remainers have pinned your hopes on? 😀
The Corbyn letter makes it clear that a referendum would be a manifesto commitment for the Labour Party in the upcoming election. It’s not for this temporary government. Any party or MP could propose something other than a referendum in the upcoming election. The LibDems are likely to stand on revoke IMHO.
So you don’t see the conflict between wanting a PM who doesn’t want a second ref instead of one who has committed to providing one? It’s pathetic
There is no conflict:
Corbyn
Doesnt
Have
The
Votes
So an option based in reality must be chosen
So an option based in reality must be chosen
Such as choosing a Tory opposed to a second referendum?
Tory MP votes are needed, to get the election, where Labour will be promising a referendum with a Remain option. It’s not complicated. You’ll get it eventually. There a very few Tory MPs that’ll vote for Corbyn to be caretaker PM, even if it is the only way to stop No Deal. Tory MP votes are needed to get that election.
It’s not complicated. You’ll get it eventually.
I get that it won't get the Labour votes it needs, because it's a stupid idea. Probably why you support it.
Well actually yes, cos Clarke has a better chance of winning a vote* & getting an extension from the eu
In the alternative universe where Corbyn does command enough votes, then yeah it's jeremy all the way
* I think the joint harman/clarke ticket is the only way to do it
Well actually yes, cos Clarke has a better chance of winning a vote & getting an extension from the eu
Oh yeah, let's vote for the guy who opposes Labour & Lib Dem policy.
Actually Clarke is 100% behind lib dems policy
https://www.libdems.org.uk/f6-policy-motion-on-europe
revoke Article 50 if a deal has not been agreed a week before we are due to leave the European Union or if an Article 50 extension request for the purpose of a People’s Vote is declined.
"The Liberal Democrats believe the people should have the final say on Brexit."
But it's ok, I get it. Hatred of Corbyn means backing someone opposed to this.
Sigh...
I voted for corbyn , (like the millions of now lib dems voters) there's no hate, just disappointment
But yeah like those millions of remainers I'll take revoking a50 happily!
Well actually yes, cos [insert name here] has a better chance of winning a vote & getting an extension from the eu
Does’t have to be Clarke.
Starmer still seems the most obvious figure to me.
But yeah like those millions of remainers I’ll take revoking a50 happily!
As long as you get your own way without any kind of mandate, that's all that matters.
As long as you get your own way without any kind of mandate, that’s all that matters.
You're absolutely right I don't want to see my country turned inside out by the hard right's wet dream of a brexit
Guilty as charged on that one m'lud
It’ll take more than revoking A50, or seeking an extension now… increasing amount of activity will be required in Parliament now that current government is trying to lock us into the current exit date…
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1162850424875036673?s=21
Tick. Tock.
And what mandate is required to stop us leaving, by whatever means, this year? No one has secured a mandate for any given exit date yet. And no one has secured a mandate for No Deal yet. So, hit the stop button… then work out what to do next, and seek a mandate, via election and/or referendum, for what you have planned.
You’re absolutely right I don’t want to see my country turned inside out by the hard right’s wet dream of a brexit
Neither do I. Which is why I reluctantly support a second referendum.
Can’t be that much of a national emergency as Tory mps have rejected the only workable plan on the table.
So, hit the stop button… then work out what to do next, and seek a mandate
There’s a plan on the table to do exactly that, but you lot don’t seem to like it. If it was that important you’d be raging that a few Tory MPs and Libdems were obstructing the solution, but instead you defend them.
No deal or Corbyn for a few weeks. Make your choice. Tick tock etc...
No deal or Corbyn for a few weeks. Make your choice. Tick tock etc…
Why can't you understand, it's not our choice!
What we think has no bearing whatsoever, in fact as I said before I think Cornyn could & would pull it off, if he had the votes....
But it's not down to me, it's a decision for MPs to make and it needs a less polarizing person than corbyn or the plan is doa
What it needs is for more mps to put country before party and career.
No deal or Corbyn for a few weeks. Make your choice. Tick tock etc…
My choice? I’ve said I’d be happy for Corbyn to be temporary PM, and I’ve also said I will now vote Labour in the election that gets called… but here is the rub… I AM NOT A TORY REBEL MP.
What it needs is for more mps to put country before party and career.
Asking MPs to vote down a government formed by their own party is a HUGE deal… and they would be putting country before their party and career… if they are prepared to do it with a different temporary PM, the opportunity should be grabbed with both hands by all the other parties. Kick out the current government, stop the clock on Brexit, get that election, fight it to install your choice of PM.
Asking MPs to vote down a government formed by their own party is a HUGE deal… and they would be putting country before their party and career
Yep I don’t think we’re going to get a Spock wrath of Khan moment, it would be nice but the only people likely to vote against their own party is someone not planning on staying in politics/matey with the party for future er favours.
I think this is the what Cummings is banking on that the chances of a party of unity forming is so slim due to the fact that they all want to be king for a day and the multitude of factions makes it hard to come up with any unity against a clock ticking down.
Boris was on an electioneering footing from day one he was PM and is continually hammering home a narrative they want to play out in the event of being forced into an election.
What it needs is for more mps to put country before party and career.
That's whats been needed for a very long time now. If, for example, Labour had supported May's deal, we'd have had Brexit (which is rubbish admittedly) but at least not no deal Brexit - which will be a lot worse.
You'd hope there are enough MPs such as Ken Clarke who either are ready to retire, or realise that the writing may be on the wall in regard to their future MP status, such as Wollaston.
Why can’t you understand, it’s not our choice!
Oh I’m very aware of that. Also aware of the endless and pointless pontificating on here about ridiculous options other than the simple and obvious one on the table.
Given we’ve spent months arguing about labour policy, with some of us receiving a fair amount abuse in the process, it’s funny that now labour have not only adopted the policies which the STW remainers wanted, and offered a route to save us from no deal, it’s still not enough.
It’s ok though, I’m sure the Lib Dem’s will ride to the rescue 😀
That’s whats been needed for a very long time now. If, for example, Labour had supported May’s deal, we’d have had Brexit (which is rubbish admittedly) but at least not no deal Brexit – which will be a lot worse.
Tbh If her own party had supported it Brexit would have happened 🙂
We have been warned:
Tbh If her own party had supported it Brexit would have happened 🙂
Absolutely. But as there's been so many times when MPs voting for their party or conscience have derailed something that would have been better than a no deal Brexit, it's a bit rich piling all this opprobrium on the Lib Dems/Tory remainers for wanting someone other than Corbyn now, I fear.
Just been reading this...
I just can believe any government, even a Tory one led by BJ, would put the country through this and expect for their party to ever be in power again.
I can’t help but think ‘we are going for no deal’ is just a giant bluff in the hope that the EU will back down. Not sure what their plan B is though?
Yes, but will I still be able to get my Euromillions ticket? That's all I care about.
Head of parties need to find someone neutral enough.
It doesn't make sense for Corbyn to be interim PM. Surely that is going to count against him in the GE.
I think it would count for him - the public at large would get to see he is not the monster he has been painted
Yes, but will I still be able to get my Euromillions ticket? That’s all I care about.
and a crash in the pound increases the jackpot.
I just can believe any government, even a Tory one led by BJ, would put the country through this and expect for their party to ever be in power again.
Well ‘will of the people’ 🙂
Corbyn putting country first and supporting someone else to be temporary PM would count for him… and not being the temporary PM frees him up to be 100% focused on campaigning for a Labour win at the snap election, rather than dealing day to day with a highly compromised executive that relies on the support of Tory MPs to function.
Referendum showed you can sell shite to a large number of people so it’ll be done again.
I think the trouble will start when companies that have announced they are pulling out, like Honda in Swindon actually shut the doors an x thousands are suddenly dumped without work and a way to pay their mortgages.
But tbh this has happened in the past only have to look at the miners and steelworks.
and a crash in the pound increases the jackpot.
And the CAP payments to farmers 🙂
(Shouts out to WelshFarmer and the Three men in a pub pubcasts for this ironic nugget )
Corbyn putting country first and supporting someone else to be temporary PM would count for him…
Not a chance. We all know exactly what would happen. The calls would start immediately for him to step down as leader, labour MPs would refuse to vote through an election under the FPA and the media would start a Corbyn the Coward campaign. His authority would drain away and the Labour Party would be in civil war. You’re asking the Labour Party to commit suicide for the ‘good of country’ to protect the careers of a few tory elder statesmen. Never going to happen!
Hmm not sure Piri Patel plans of closing the border immediately on Brexit looks spectacularly well thought thru.
Hmm not sure Piri Patel plans of closing the border immediately on Brexit looks spectacularly well thought thru.
Just read an article on this.. So she's going to stop paddy from crossing the village green to meet Murphy for a guiness?
That will end well.
How is border force going to know if coming for a holiday or to live in UK?
I don't think it's had more than a nano second of thought put into it.
Just a tory MP putting out a few platitudes to make it seem like they are 'getting on with it'.