Meaning DUP supporters have left the EU and SF types haven’t I guess.
There are plenty of nationalist non-SF types.
It’s ok, I understand that for many on the “mainland” and on this thread, these last few weeks have been a sharp learning curve.
"......Under the caveat that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed"So actually me and my German wife can take absolutely no heart from all the fine words in the 15 page document. Great if it comes off as written, but still no concrete guarantees of absolutely anything.
It does say that, but it also says:
"[b]In the absence of agreed solutions,[/b] the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Marketand the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement"
Statement 1 - Nothing in this document is agreed until everything is agreed.
Statement 2 - If nothing is agreed we will do this.
??
It’s ok, I understand that for many on the “mainland” and on this thread, these last few weeks have been a sharp learning curve.
Tbh ever since May DUP bribe, it's been quite illuminating !
I think statement 2 trumps statement 1.
I don't think the EU is bothered, the document is more political than legal. They have us where they wanted us and the asset grab can continue in an orderly fashion.
(I keep saying 'us' ... I'm not an us).
A cover version now Arlene and the cast of the DUP covering the cast of Grange Hill’s “Just say...”
Just say NEVER, NEVER, NEVER..
IGM - a couple of Brexit jukebox suggestions..........With or Without You by U2; My Way.
TBF this softest of Brexits is quite representative of the actual vote as it was so tight
It really is the Will of The People!
It really is the Will of The People!
don't be daft, people lost their opinions should never ever count.
some proper swivel-eyed brexies getting very upset on twitter
obviously its all the fault of EU/remoaners.... but when they see Mogg, IDS, Gove, Johnson etc going along with this I think they are starting to realise that they were conned
but not by Rremain !
So if we get to keep the status quo for several years after 2019 - this could allow me and my family enough time to escape to an EU country - we're not in a position to do it now.
Apparently Germany is giving out residency after only 6 months...?
The bit i've not got my head round is how is the fall back position in the document compatible with the stuff from Barnier about looking at a free trade agreement along the lines of Canada? Surely if we don't have freedom of movement + customs union (as we don't with Canada) then we have a border and it doesn't work?
So if we get to keep the status quo for several years after 2019
The way i read it is that it's from the withdrawal date, but now i've just chekced it's not specified in the document that the withdrawal date is the date of leaving the EU (march 2019) it could be the withdrawal agreement date, which might be two years later. But even if it's the first, the rights seem to apply if you're in the country you want to be in on the day of exit. So you've got a year.
Impressed with the wording, as regards all three key points. Very impressed.
Next step will be interesting … as a damage limitation new relationship is sought … and looks nothing like the relationship many (most?) Leave voters voted for. It will win over lots of border line Remain voters though, if it takes a sensible form that is in any way closer than the "fallback" positions outlined this morning.
Some epic comments on the DE website thismorning...
parliament are tyrannous, the enemy of the UK
Quote presumably from a leaver who voted for Parliamentary sovereignty 😆 😆
Kelvin we are becoming aligned in our thinking albeit from different internediatepoints!!
As I Said Yesterday, Brexit is dead in all but name.
Unfortunately, none of this solves the civil war in the political parties, especially the one plotting our course through all this. Feel real sympathy for May to be honest, when the opportunities arise for the B@5T@RD5 to knife her for not living by pure eurosceptic ideals, they will. Sensible cross bench cooperation will be essential next year.
And, "the people" should still be allowed to reject the final deal and ask to remain, once they can see the deal. If the deal is one that more people prefer than don't… then happy days… leave with the deal and work alongside our neighbours.
Surely this Irish border will also restrict are ability to do any trade deals with counties outside the EU if a final EU deal allows it?
Being a member of the EU will always be the best position we can be in whilst there must be no border in Ireland?
In so many sectors, UK and Europe will compromise on carrying on with current rules that it will change very little.
jambalaya - Member - Block User
I’ll retire to Europe somewhere in all likelihood, most probably France as my wife is French although she’s quite keen on Portugal at the moment (we have a few friends who have retired to Lisbon)
I have a UK passport and am confident I’ll need no citizenship test or new passport to move to Europe post April 2019
I'm still wondering why someone would so vociferously harp on about Brexit, then retire to a country still in the EU?
interesting times. Let's see what happens next.
Well, in it's current form there's a safety net of access to markets and for the flow of labour, but the onus is on the Brexiteers to come up with better deals that suit both the EU and UK. This could also mean that the preferred low tax, low regulation, tax haven that the extreme Brexiteers wanted is off the table.
Of course, if May is toppled and a hardliner takes control then they have to renege on deals, thus damaging any goodwill gained to date and the nation's reputation and trading position. They may also find themselves short of support in parliament.
With a 52/48 split, the Brexiteers had to act quickly. Cornered, they will be bellicose (I've already seen the shrill commentary from the Express). I fully expect the faux 'patriotism' card being played ad nauseum.
This could also mean that the preferred low tax, low regulation, tax haven that the extreme Brexiteers wanted is off the table.
Any hint of deal that gives Britain unfair advantage and millions of Europeans will be writing letters that start:
Monsieur le Président,
Je vous fais une lettre au sujet du Brexit et le droit de véto dont vous disposez... .
The logical progression is:
Hard brexit the way the hard-brexiters want it doesn't address any of the issues leading to the leave vote and causes a multitude of new, extremely serious problems -> Soft brexit is the the only workable way of leaving the EU (where we are now) -> but wait, this is worse than what we had before... All the disadvantages and less control over what happens -> no brexit is the only way to not make things worse for ourselves.
And everyone who already figured that one out, say, before the vote, slow claps.
I'm ashamed to admit that I had to google-translate that. 😳
But I'm 100% in support of the EU taking punitive action against the UK in event of a minority of politicians forcing us down the route of being a tax haven.
And everyone who already figured that one out, say, before the vote, slow claps.
Time to embrace people slowly coming to the same conclusion, not alienate them.
This time next year they may be an overwhelming majority of "the people" wanting to cancel Brexit, rather than except the replacement weaker single actual realised deal/relationship. At that point, should they be told their "will" was frozen in 2016?
Hard brexit the way the hard-brexiters want it doesn't address any of the issues leading to the leave vote and causes a multitude of new, extremely serious problems
Thusly.
So £40bn - that's just the cash but works out at £2297.43 each.
Cough up Brexiteers.
And everyone who already figured that one out, say, before the vote, slow claps.
clap
clap
clap.
So £40bn - that's just the cash but works out at £2297.43 each.
*quick back of envelope calculation*
Yup, if the 17m Leave voters gave up their tax free personal allowance for the 2017-18 tax year, then we'd have as near as dammit the £40bn divorce bill.
This would be acceptable to me.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-42270239
Ah, the lovely EU getting ready to sue sovereign nations like Poland, Hungary etc for daring to set their own migrant limits....bunch of tits, this is why half the country hates the EU.
deviant - Member
Ah, the lovely EU getting ready to sue sovereign nations like Poland, Hungary etc for daring to set their own migrant limits....bunch of tits, this is why half the country hates the EU.
if they dont like it they can always quit and get a really great deal like Britain has just . . . oh wait......
thankfully half the population is not as racially motivated /focused as you are
[quote=deviant > https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-42270239
Ah, the lovely EU getting ready to sue sovereign nations like Poland, Hungary etc for daring to set their own migrant limits....bunch of tits, this is why half the country hates the EU.
it's very alarming that someone with your extreme views is employed in a role where peoples lives can depend on you. I refuse to believe you don't take your hate filled world view into account if you're called out to someone you don't like.
it's very alarming that someone with your extreme views is employed in a role where peoples lives can depend on you.
Wow just wow !! Talk about hysterical reaction. If you think deviants views "extreme" you need to get out more!!
Does this mean we can go back to arguing about handlebar widths?
Brexit but everything staying the same and no need to vote in euro elections?
that's the spirit!
freed from the tyranny of voting in elections no-one gave a to55 about by jingo!
if this is the best result i'll take it.... but i still want remain.
Have you read everything he has been saying of late?If you think deviants views "extreme" you need to get out more!!
Imagine what he would say without the threat of a banning
Whether they are extreme or just light racism is to somewhat miss the point , though its often interesting to see who defends them on these threads
[quote=taxi25 ]it's very alarming that someone with your extreme views is employed in a role where peoples lives can depend on you.
Wow just wow !! Talk about hysterical reaction. If you think deviants views "extreme" you need to get out more!!
there's a common theme with Deviant
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1091#post-8880873
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1091#post-8881008
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1090#post-8880345
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1090#post-8880388
deviant - Member
this is why half the country hates the EU.
Its only 37%, considerably less than half.
And its arguable whether all of them "hate" it.
But anyway.
And now...
“If the kippers are united” by Sham 52
Ah, the lovely EU getting ready to sue sovereign nations like Poland, Hungary etc for daring to set their own migrant limits.
Refugees, mate. There's a difference.
Plus, they signed up to the rules, then broke them. WTF should the EU have done? After all they're only trying to help the desperate. How awful of them.
dannyh - Member
dannyh - Member
@dannyh one of the advatages of a WTO Brexit (or “no deal” if you prefer) is that it is a clean break.
@Jamby.
A clean break isn't always a good thing. Just saying it sounds like a line from Eastenders.What is it you think we need a clean break from?
What regulations would you like to see us unburdened from and to what aim?
What do you think it is about the EU that actually holds us back, how is Brexit going to solve these issues and do you think that even if we do become more prosperous after Brexit (which I think 95% of people think is impossible), that the extra prosperity will benefit a majority or just a minority?
POSTED 10 HOURS AGO #
Sorry, Jamby, if you have already replied to this one. I have skimmed the last few pages looking for an answer and can't see one.
Ninfan put a reply up which seemed to be along the lines of really only wanting to deal with countries that used to be part of the empire and have English as their first language, but I haven't seen anything from you.
I struggle to see how deregulation ever achieves anything but lining the pockets of the few at the expense of the many, chiefly because the existing regulation is generally more protective than restrictive (although the fascist press always try chipping away at 'elf un safety').
It is this narrative of being freed up from something that worries me as it is a Trojan horse for cowboy capitalism in my view. The sort of capitalism that is beautifully illustrated by the likes of Cecil Rhodes, whose sheer bravado, bluff, bullying and courting of power allowed massive exploitation.
POSTED 5 HOURS AGO #
I'm still trying to get an answer from Jamby on this. What is it you want to be deregulated from and what do you want to do with this new found 'freedom'?
Maybe one of the other Brexies will provide a stop-gap answer?
Ninfan wants to deal with the old outposts of empire (although I note that they are ones where the typical skin colour is quite light), might be a coincidence, but India and Nigeria didn't appear on his list.
Anyone else?
I haven't followed much today as it is my 40th birthday (happy birthday to me), but I have noted that that utter shitstain Farage doesn't seem happy. This is an easy litmus for me, so I can carry on enjoying my birthday!
