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The Nissan desicion is just a visable and ironic example of what's being going on in boardrooms across the globe since the day of the Brexit vote.
Our CEO has refused to invest any new capital in the UK until Brexit is sorted out. But were only one of the if not the largest singe contributors to the UKs GDP so that could end well. My industry doesn't even have tariffs under WTO rules.
Investment in the UK car industry was down 50% last year. With Vauxhall now owned by Peugot and Nissan by Renault where do you think their future investment is going Sunderland and the Wirral ?
The UK Car industry has grown as a gate way to Europe especially for the Japanese car makers. Where are they going to invest in the future.
Well I suppose we've got 2 months for those German Car makers to finally start battering down Merkels door, as apparently they need us more than we need them.
Sorry just project fear in me slipping out, I'm sure everything will be fine.
What Binners said. Corbyn turns out is not the messiah.
Any government worth it’s salt wouldn’t be entertaining “no deal” as any sort of viable option that any sane person would actively choose. No deal is what happens when we run out of options. It’s an utterly, utterly stupid idea (see my previous paragraph) and anyone who actively wants it is either a disaster capitalist or a moron.
Well, quite. Many of them, in Blyth, it would seem...
the brexit vote was a massive opportunity for the people to change things
Like what? - or you've massively conflated what the referendum was about, unless of course you've swallowed the popular narrative that the UK's woes were the fault of the EU when they were almost entirely self-inflicted and decades of people of all persuasions voting for tax cuts and austerity.
Even though we haven't left yet, the damage has been done as many business have now diverted investment to other countries or instead of hiring and training people, they're having to tie up cash in contingency stuff that will yield no return. Do you thing overseas investors are going to flock to the UK when people like Boris say "**** business"?
Regional investment? Dream-on, it's gonna take billions to clear up this mess...
Corbyn turns out is not the messiah.
Was he ever? Curious though as to who you think would have done any better at navigating the impossible conundrum of the labour vote being split along brexit lines. And please don't say Yvette Cooper.
Yvette Cooper! 😝
My cat could have made a better job of it than Corbyn. Actually, my cat has probably shown more interest and aptitude in doing so over the last few years
Binners, your mistake is to think that this whole mess is in any way soluble if only the right person was opposition leader.
Corbyn's failing because the situation is impossible, not because he's particularly at fault.
Yvette Cooper failed to get all Labour MPs to support her amendment to prevent no deal. Had she done so then I might have agreed, but she didn't.
Anyone else?
Dream-on, it’s gonna take billions to clear up this mess…
Rubbish.....there's a magic money tree
Is there an actual single brexiteer left on this thread?
They’re all on Twitter and Facebook re-posting Britain First and EDL stuff
I think there are a few Corbyn cultists who think their saint’s Brexit might work. In a Disaster Socialism bout of collective suffering kinda way.
Why do you have it in for the people of Blyth in particular Mr Woppit? There are many other areas which also voted for unicorns.
It’s his new religion.
Is there an actual single brexiteer left on this thread?
I doubt it, if i had my way they'd be rounded up and sent for readjustment programming, if they agree that they were wrong then all well and good - you get to pass otherwise i'm happy to leave them strung up in gibbets as a putrefying warning to stupidity.
Blyth has been featured on a couple of C4News items recently. No doubt there are similar stories to be found elsewhere
Corbyns failure was to embrace 'constructive ambiguity' for too long, kind of understandable, Brexit is a Tory mess & in many ways makes sense to let them own this shambles. its an impossible fantasy that 1/2 the country believe, so toxic to all parties.
But what Corbyn didnt do was act in the nations interests early enough, every time a brexiteer or May started promising unicorns they should have been shot down straight away - Corbyn turned avoiding cchallenging May on Brexit at PMQs into a running joke.
The lies of the Leave campaign were allowed to fester for far too long, when it became obvious that May was simply going to carry on with the fantasy that we can keep the benefits of membership after we'd left it was time to step up & be honest.
Instead the likes of Hoey & even Gardiner have been allowed to keep pushing these myths, Labour's stance that they could somehow negotiate a better deal was just as idiotic as the Tories.
Corbyn even pushing May to trigger A50 ASAP (trying to force May into a tactical error or just foolish ?) but the net result has been a disaster, with no plan at the outset, crashing out with no deal was always a terrible risk.
Dont get me wrong Brexit is the ultimate example of the Tories throwing the country under a bus, rather than be honest about their own party's divisions.
Everyone expects the likes of Mogg, Johnson etc to want to f-k over the poor Leave voting areas, but Corbyn has enabled that.
Now we see Nissan, Airbus, Vauxhall, JLR etc doing what they said theyd have to do if we decided to shoot ourselves in the foot, even the economists behind Leave have been pretty brazen about this.
https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1056490686638383104
The country is polarised, theres no real way out of this & like it or not the poorest regions will be hurt the most, even if Brexit were called off tomorrow , the UKs reputation is in tatters, investment wont be coming back, the apprentices abandoned in manufacturing over the last couple of years wont catch up (& if you think that May bribing the constituencies of a few labour leave MPs to save her deal & her party is going to equate to long term regional development in those areas you are tragically naive). Every indicator says that we will have less growth & that means austerity-
For that reason alone Labour should have stepped up sooner
To be fair, Blyth was by no means the worst of the Channel 4 news pieces. The one from Barrow - a post-apocalyptic hell-hole if ever there was one - was truly staggering, featuring a procession of toothless, tracky-clad simpletons repeating “WHY CAN’T THEY JUST GET ON WITH IT?!”
Apparently still totally oblivious to any of the actual complexities, or the realities and still thinking it was like cancelling a gym membership.
Good look with your impending post-Brexit regeneration Barrow
They’re all on Twitter and Facebook re-posting Britain First and EDL stuff
Because that is going to make such a difference to posting here.
There’s already talk of a renewed focus on regional investment, whatever the outcome of May’s deal.
I sincerely hope you aren’t holding your breath.
And is that going to be ‘investment’ that more than replaces the direct investment from the EU and the investment associated with EU membership.
Otherwise it is the Thatcher tactic. Build ‘em a new youth club after they’ve just torched their own neighbourhood again.
Corbyns failure
How are you defining failure? Surely the only measurement is whether labour win the next election, which is still to be held. If as I think you are suggesting his failure is that he hasn't prevented brexit, then he and the the labour party have been entirely honest and upfront that this was never their policy.
Everyone expects the likes of Mogg, Johnson etc to want to f-k over the poor Leave voting areas, but Corbyn has enabled that
Again, you're assuming a specific outcome when it hasn't happened yet. Labour have been equally clear that they want a brexit which protects employment regulations and jobs. Yes some will claim that's impossible but the fact is that we don't yet know.
For that reason alone Labour should have stepped up sooner
To do what? They've been completely clear and transparent on their brexit policy. People may argue against that policy but lets not pretend they didn't have one or didn;t communicate it. In actual fact, given the differing opinions within the party they've been extraordinarily disciplined and unified on the messaging so I would still question what more they could have done.
Maybe Liam can explain how 'survivable' relates to this...NFU pointing out a few home truths: https://news.sky.com/story/no-deal-brexit-savage-for-food-and-agriculture-farmers-warn-11627088
PS I do know many farmers didn't vote for Brexit (in same way as many Northerners like me voted remain but still get tarred with same brush by lazy thinkers) but it was staggering to see the sheer number of leave banners in the fields near me (Cockermouth) during the referendum.
I'd also happily see Patrick 'these things happen' Minfords head on a stick too.
I love the way 'these things happening' are always ok when they happen to someone else...
Unfortunate the good people of Sunderland didn't have the Prof on hand to explain his message to them during the referendum.
In places like Blyth there is an inbuilt hatred of the middle class and pretty much everything they represent.
Well, at least you can't claim JRM is middle class I suppose. Boris? Probably not. Farage…?
They’ve been completely clear and transparent on their brexit policy. People may argue against that policy but lets not pretend they didn’t have one or didn;t communicate it.
What do you think that policy was… and is now…? Plenty of people think that it was "clear and transparent", yet have utterly contradictory opinions on what it was… and now is. What do you think that it is currently? And try not to mention "the table", if you can…
Did I mention the African nanny is better than the previous east European one, much more jovial and another league compared to the lazy British ones.
Just imagine what a place our country could have been if we'd had decades of good investment and caring policies instead of Tories.
I will be voting for the most hardcore libertarian Tory I can find who will protect my own interests.
Unless you have a couple of hundred million in the bank you aren't getting a look in. Know your place prole. (This is not for the likes of you and me, we are but fodder for the machine).
For that reason alone Labour should have stepped up sooner
To do what? They’ve been completely clear and transparent on their brexit policy
Really? The 'Leader' has one view, Conference has another, the majority of the party members apparently have another. Corbyn said before the referendum that he was '70% in favour of remaining' - not what his subsequent actions suggest. He's paid from the public purse as Leader of HM Opposition, but he failed to challenge the Tory plans for the referendum - whichever side you support, if the whole process had had more challenge and been thought through in advance the present level of ambiguity and conflict could have been avoided.
What do you think that policy was
The policy is what it says. Read it for yourself, it's fairly straightforward. If you don't agree then perhaps you could explain where it is confusing?
https://labourlist.org/2018/09/labours-brexit-composite-motion-in-full/
I bet that when all those right wing loons paid their 3 quid to join the Labour Party and vote in the totally unelectable beardy lefty ‘for a laugh’ they could never in their wildest dreams thought that they’d end up, years later, with a ‘leader of the opposition’ who shared their opinions completely on the EU and would be more than happy to help facilitate their decades old wet dream of this country leaving it?
As Alan Partridge would say.... CASHBACK!!!
If you really want to depress yourselves, have a read of this https://eand.co/what-will-the-effects-of-brexit-really-be-e1530c674141
It's obviously at the extreme end of predictions, but it doesn't seem particularly fanciful - it could happen.
Thats the problem dazh having a position by 2018 was 2 years too late
@dazH - that's what it currently is.
IIRC, the official Labour policy on Brexit has been:
June 2016: Remain
August 2016: Trigger A50 as soon as possible
Jan 2017: Whip Labour MPs to trigger A50
Early 2018: Do whatever conference decides
(Sep 2018: Conference decides we need a 2nd ref)
Oct 2018: Call for a general election. All the stuff that conference wanted can wait.
I don't think Labour policy has been clear. And I don't think Corbyn has been consistent in terms of appearing to want a particular thing, and then acting towards actually achieving it. Apart from a GE I suppose. Which does make sense but he's clearly not going to get one, so it's a fairly futile gesture.
It’s his new religion.
Praise be.
also, just reading that Labour Brexit motion again, it isn't clear at all! The wording
If we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.
...is weaselly. It's vague. IMO Corbyn doesn't want a 2nd vote, doesn't want to campaign for one, and had this motion worded such that he will never have to campaign for one but can dodge accusations of going against the wishes of conference.
'Not being able to get a GE' is where we have been for 3 weeks now. So the second part of that clause has been triggered.
We are now onto 'supporting all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote'.
No such campaigning has happened. So what is the position now?
**edit.
I know, I know, I should reserve my ire for the Hunts on the Tory benches. And I do hold them in considerably more contempt than old Jez. But I had such high hopes for Corbyn...!
It took Corbyn until late last year before he started pushing May on Brexit at PMQs, by then it was arguably too late to effect anything, in spite of the obvious failings of Davis pretty much from the day after the referendum.
And while not in power the oppostion can and do easily help frame the national discourse & they should be holding the government to account
I know, I know, I should reserve my ire for the Hunts on the Tory benches. And I do hold them in considerably more contempt than old Jez. But I had such high hopes for Corbyn…!
spot on
Corbyn's ambiguity over Brexit was enough to keep us remainers hopeful of a way out of the mess, ad while it was a cunning ploy, it was always going to end up dissapointing one group
Its not just corbyn. 100 mps including half his front bench have publicly said the will resign / vote against any motion that could be seen as delaying brexit, another 70 say they will resign / split the party if he does not oppose it with all his might.
He simply cannot take the party in any one definite direction.
If he comes out for a second referendum then 100 labour MPs will vote against it.
If he is seen as "enabling brexit" then a whole bunch of them are gong to resign the whip
How can you square that?
The UK Car industry has grown as a gate way to Europe especially for the Japanese car makers. Where are they going to invest in the future.
TBH they’ve got a shiny new trade deal they don’t need the UK as a gateway 🙁
they’ve got a shiny new trade deal they don’t need the UK as a gateway
This
Does make you wonder who's cars we will be driving in 2025
Does make you wonder who’s cars we will be driving in 2025
Same ones as now. We won't be able to afford to replace them.
The policy is what it says. Read it for yourself, it’s fairly straightforward. If you don’t agree then perhaps you could explain where it is confusing?
Tell my your reading of it, and then we'll tell you several contradictory positions that also "satisfy" that pointless composite motion. Is it not a policy position, it is a fudge designed to keep the leadership free from scrutiny over their actions as regards Brexit.
My reading of it is that any Labour government will push ahead with Brexit, regardless of what the membership of the party and the general public now want, and that if there isn't a Labour government… no position has been agreed… so Corbyn can carry on enabling Brexit.
Don't mention "the table"… it is meaningless (or alternatively can mean whatever you want it to mean).
I don't think *any* Labour govt would. There are enough moderates who cherish their EU identity as much as the rump of this thread, and who are arrogant enough to think they know better (as they might) to cancel it OR pragmatic enough to opt for a second ref to not go through with it.
The policy is that if Labour won a general election, Brexit would go ahead. That is the policy. It is "clear"…
[the magic is surrounding that policy with words that sound like opposing Brexit, when having to get the backing of conference]
Where's Kier?
wont we be driving one of dysons new singaporean wondercars?
also summer hols to be ruined by general election
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/tory-mps-election-whatsapp-panic
Buzzfeed? Do people actually visit that site on purpose to read news?
@tjagain - you're right in that it's very hard/nearly impossible to square it. But I don't think it necessarily follows that...
He simply cannot take the party in any one definite direction.
The job of a leader is to take their party in a definite direction, if necessary persuading warring MPs to rally round a common cause. People can change their minds if they hear a suitably persuasive case, but Corbyn clearly isn't making it. To be fair, most political leaders over the last half a century probably couldn't have, either. A couple, perhaps.
So yeah perhaps we shouldn't judge him too harshly. But as per that Labour motion, currently their only stated policies are to try and get a GE, and to not rule anything out. They're failing at the first, and the second simply requires them to do nothing.
This is going to be massive and it's going to **** the life prospects of the young working class. Corbyn's actions so far suggest that he's reluctantly going to have to accept that, because it's all really really hard.
Between the various factions (Leave & Remain voters, MPs, party members, media, angry public etc etc etc) Corbyn is boxed in, and, like a rabbit in headlights, is doing nothing as a result. It's logical. It's probably what I would do in that position, because I am a coward. But I don't donate to the party just so they can do what I would do! I don't think he'll come out of this with much credit. :/
https://www.theguardian.com/media/australia-news-blog/2015/jul/09/buzzfeed-v-leigh-sales-anatomy-of-possibly-the-silliest-media-non-spat-ever
They do get better seats at important events
https://www.buzzfeed.com/news
But I've never gone to their site to sit and read it but I've read plenty of their articles, a lot of people don't go to a place to read news more than browse the places pulling stories together from multiple outlets.
Of course you dont got to buzzfeed!
but alex wickham is well worth following on twitter, if not for them wwould we ever have seen Davis's impact assessments?
https://twitter.com/alexwickham
Tho Peston reckons 3 month extension required to get legislation thru to make brexit happen
So brexit, May immedietly quits and calls election?
So brexit, May immedietly quits and calls election
Hmmmm...have we seen this before
I wonder if the labour party can get shut of magic grandad before then?
I wonder if the labour party can get shut of magic grandad before then?
Certain amount of repetition on this topic.
"Getting shut of magic grandad"...
I give you:
I wonder if the labour party can get shut of magic grandad before then?
Did you join up to cast your vote and help lead Labour back to the one true cause?
Pondering the NI border / backstop / alternative arrangements. Have I got this right?
May's agreement triggers the backstop if we don't solve the border issue
The ERG & Sajid Javid etc say that we can EASILY solve the border issue
If they're right, the backstop will not be triggered and therefore becomes a non-issue
Is it just that?
Or are there other backstop triggers that I've missed?
Is it just that?
Thats about it. Its just even the ERG in their stone heart of stone hearts realise that saying "new technology" doesnt actually count as solving the problem.
Surely new technology for an ERG is colour telly.
Certain amount of repetition on this topic.
I would say an unhealthy obsession and one that doesn't appear to be shared.
Surely new technology for an ERG is colour telly.
What exactly is this new technology
The bloke running the port of Dover is also very interested in what it is and how it gets implemented in 50 odd days
The new technological solutions are moving on at pace in the Rees Mogg research facility...
The ERG & Sajid Javid etc say that we can EASILY solve the border issue
They want it to go away and will talk it down. The comments in yesterday's Sunday Times from people who know better is that it is nonsense. Stock up now!
You actually have 2 years to come up with a tech solution, as agreeing the backstop means we get the interim period of trading while arguing about stuff goes on to step 2. Only if there is no solution at the end of this 2 years is the backstop activated.
Crazy to think all this arguing is just about the framework for the main argument.
You actually have 2 years to come up with a tech solution, as agreeing the backstop
Ah that makes sense ..time to become mates with an MP then who knows a mate who knows someone coming up with this tech to get a government contract.
.
Or more accurately, come up with a tech solution that is acceptable to all the stake holders, test it, deploy it and having it up and running within 2 years. As we don't have the details of what this magic tech is, how much it costs or what infrastructure it requires it's a long shot. I'm also after some clarification how the walking/driving through a field controls will be enforced to the satisfaction of all parties.
It's like nobody has bothered to do any work on this in the last 2 years at all.
What exactly is this new technology
Let us be very clear it is new and it is technology.
Does that answer it for you?
If not.
How about we are clear that it is both technology and new.
The Border enforcement technology will simply be the latest in a long line of on time and on budget, functional Government procured IT projects.
Imagine trying to police the smuggling of high value items by drone.
what infrastructure it requires
I'll bet it's a Unic's based solution 😉
Certain amount of repetition on this topic.
I would say an unhealthy obsession and one that doesn’t appear to be shared.
You’re not paying attention.
Or more accurately, come up with a tech solution that is acceptable to all the stake holders, test it, deploy it and having it up and running within 2 years
Ah like an honesty box then..
Filled with Crapita-supplied pixie dust.
As someone has already said, on time, under budget and totally 100% fit for purpose.
New brexit date announced.
You actually have 2 years to come up with a tech solution, as agreeing the backstop means we get the interim period of trading while arguing about stuff goes on to step 2. Only if there is no solution at the end of this 2 years is the backstop activated.
As I understand it, the EU has offered us the chance to extend the transition period to December 2022 - so that's nearly four years, if we choose.
Four years to implement a solution that merely requires 'a bit of goodwill from the EU', (Sajid Javid, last week) apparently.
What's the matter? Don't they believe themselves?
Have we done Daniel Kawczynski?
He's another Hunt that should be tarred and feathered. I am embarrassed to be from Shrewsbury 😡
The tech solution thing is a joke, Sajid Javid was blatantly lying on yesterday, bit shameful that Marr didn't challenge him for details.
Looking at the government history on delivering big infrastructure projects a tech solution to the no border is likely to cost £bns more than planned (crossrail), be years late & cause immense disruption (universal credit) ultimately to be abandoned as impossible after many costly years (NHS IT upgrade)
.
.
& Kawczynzsky is blatantly & shamelessly lying, but no one in the media seems to want to properly challenge him on it