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What I’m hearing from my outlaws is that if you’ve got your Residente Permanente Your fine.
Correct.
BTW, take look at Johnson in that interview and compare what you see to a vid or photo from a couple of months ago... 😱
Kwasi Kwarteng on BBC breakfast just now..... the EU will compromise to get a deal otherwise they won't get a penny piece from us. Still negotiating with threats.
"A deal will require compromise on both sides"
I'm shouting at the TV for the interviewers to ask what areas we might be able to compromise on... but nothing. All I see is that she's going back with the same demands and asking for a different answer.
European euro sceptics especially in france from the gilet jeunes imho
Be interesting to see what with happen with the gillet jaunes, they have a very antipolitical stance, several 'leaders' have been slapped down for being too elitist.
The will also be hoovering up a lot of protest votes that would've gone for whatever party LePen is rebadging the FN as.
So with all the extra parliamentary time that's now going to be taken up by May coming back empty handed, another rejection of Plan A, another No Confidence motion from JC, more votes on "what are we going to do now" etc what the hell happens to the Brexit legislative programme that was already looking impossible to deliver without all the extra faff. If we need more time to even have a legal basis to operate on with no deal why the ********* aren't they asking for it NOW?
theotherjonv
..."the EU will compromise to get a deal otherwise they won’t get a penny piece from us."
That would be a dumb move on the part of the UK.
Renege on existing fiscal responsibilities with the EU, and then go looking for new trade deals. I'm sure that would engender a lot of trust in prospective trading partners...
It is even dumber to threaten it.
What most people don't realize is that this is just the beginning. The deal is only a starting point. The difficult part starts after that.
Boris;
“It takes 2 to tango”.
and we have all seen how well May dances.
The eu appears to be quite accomplished dancer, while the uk has 2 left feet and thinks it is a shin kicking contest.
If you want to hear another example of a brexiter flapping then Barclay on R4 today was really good. He was repeatedly asked what the 'alternative arrangements' were. Obviously no-one in the world knows so his evasion and discomfort was delightful
So, about 50 (or more) pages ago my predication was that TM’s deal would squeak through, primarily because Parliament is too afraid of No Deal.
What a ride it’s been since that first vote, but nothing has changed!
The votes last night indicate that Parliament is more willing to a support ‘a deal’ than any alternative. As TM’s deal is the only one in town, it seems to me that Parliament will fall in to line at the 11th hour, simply to avoid no deal.
I now think TM has known this all along. She has ridden every storm in the single minded belief that if it gets down to the wire, Parliament will have to support ‘her’ deal. So, she’s run down the clock at every opportunity to increase the pressure on Parliament.
DUP will never accept Mays deal nor will the hard-line outies so she is relying on labour votes to get it thru. I very much doubt she will get enough of them even if no deal is the alternative.
The level of idiocy is quite astonishing.
It seems to me that Labours only tangeable policy on Brexit is ‘avoid no deal’.
I’d love to know how anything other than TM’s deal can avoid that.
Oh, and be realistic. Remainers acuse Leavers or wanting Unicorns. Tell me how wishing for another Referendum or revocation of A50 is anything different at this stage in the process?
Please try to remember what No Deal actually means.
The votes last night indicate that Parliament is more willing to a support ‘a deal’ than any alternative.
No it doesnt.
The ERG made it clear that they will withdraw their support if she doesnt produce some unicorns and many of them want a no deal.
Yesterdays vote wasnt a triumph for May it was her bending to the brexiteers will and, sadly, a bunch of other tories refusing to stand up and point out it was bollocks.
@tallpaul Agreed. She is relying on there being enough opposition votes who see it as their patriotic duty to avoid No Deal that they will eat the bowl of shit she has placed on the table and overcome the votes of ERG and other nutters. In this way she will save her own career and also the unity of the Tory party, which are, if course, the most important things.
Oh, and be realistic. Remainers acuse Leavers or wanting Unicorns. Tell me how wishing for another Referendum or revocation of A50 is anything different at this stage in the process?
Because remaining is realistic and achievable. More than that it's actually quite easy to do. Just takes some balls Fromm parliament (maybe that bit is a bit fanciful)
It seems the majority of our MPs, from both main party's, are happy to carry on believing in unicorns, and happy to keep telling us all that unicorns are real and we can all have one
It’ll be an extension of A50
Hmm, I'm not sure the EU will agree to an extension.
Oh, and be realistic. Remainers acuse Leavers or wanting Unicorns. Tell me how wishing for another Referendum or revocation of A50 is anything different at this stage in the process?
Please try to remember what No Deal actually means.
Well realistically, remain is the easiest option and I don't think remainers need reminding what No Deal is, it seems to be leavers who are confused by that.
My daughter had a meeting with our local MP last week (along with the chair of the local European movement). As you would expect although they pushed quite hard, they got the usual party line type guff from him.
However, just as they were leaving she asked why no deal was still on the table and he dropped his guard for long enough to admit that it is there as a stick to beat MPs into line and force them to vote for TM's deal. This has been the bargaining position all along and she is playing a sick game of chicken with all of our futures in order to push her personal deal through. It's about as subtle as a boot in the knackers.
Heard on both radio and television this morning that the ball is now in the EU's court and if we don't get a deal it will be all their fault.
Oh dear....
Who are more likely to yield at this stage?
As so astutely observed, Brexiteers relish No Deal. It’s the purest form of Brexit.
Remainers who understand and rightly fear no deal. How, in good conscience can they allow it?
Remain is still on the table, but can anyone please present a realistic scenario that results in it happening between now and Brexit day (or the EU Parliamentary elections, as it seems a small A50 extension is inevitable)?
And now we have the Brexit Minister rather than just the ERG loons threatening to withhold the 39bn if the EU doesn't rewrite the backstop which our government demanded and then threw away.
Our international credibility is approaching zero. Who will want to do trade deals with us if this is how we treat existing deals and financial obligations?
****wits
So basically everything in parliament to avoid a **** up got defeated did it...
Our international credibility is approaching zero.
I have just been having emails for work this morning from Slovakia, Estonia and Italy - it seems the press in Europe are having a proper laugh or pop at our situation. The feeling from the Slovak's is that the UK has gone from being a bit mad for wanting to leave, to UK genuinely trying to rip-off and blackmail the EU club... I wonder how many EU leaders are also feeling that today?
So let me get this straight. When we leave and my work dries up I am also going to have a unicorn to feed? ****ing great.
I'll try and find some links from the press here in Sweden about this bit of a mess, but the feeling in the office is that the UK is just going collectively mad. This is coming from a country that had no government for a couple of months recently.
Just to add that I love the stealth changing of my use of 'CharlieFoxtrot' in the above post to "bit of mess". STW, thank you, that made me laugh.
Maybot 4.0 is off to DEMAND renegotiation ...not sure how one makes demands when all the hostages were let off the plane...except the british ones
to push her personal deal through. It’s about as subtle as a boot in the knackers.
I think that has been obvious for a while. The red lines are May's and this is the deal she wants. The only thing she is bothered by is immigration.
2 things need to happen to bring real change and hope
Businesses, big ones and lots of them, press government.
People take to the streets, or strike.
Oliver Letwin is on Five Live. One of the less mental Tory's.
His opinion is that even if May comes back with all the magic unicorns they required, the ERG nutjobs won't vote for it whatever, as they've all decided that what they want now is no deal
And all this at the moment is just them seeing it as the best way to get that
which is exactly why she should have always ignored the ERG. Try and get an agreement between Labour and the non ERG tories and it would go through. She didn't really try very hard with that though did she.
Remain is still on the table, but can anyone please present a realistic scenario that results in it happening between now and Brexit day
Easy. The government having spent 2 years of "due diligence" comes to the conclusion that remaining in the EU is in fact in the best interests of the country and rescinds A50. It apologises that it finds it necessary to go back on a manifesto pledge, but hey, that's what governments do all the time.
Easy
Phew, thank goodness for that. When you put it like that I’ve no idea what I’ve spent the last 2.5 years worrying about.
The government having spent 2 years of “due diligence” comes to the conclusion that remaining in the EU is in fact in the best interests of the country and rescinds A50.
But they haven't - that's a unicorn too. They have concluded that the best interests of the country are served by having fewer foreigners and less money. You and I may disagree, but we aren't the govt, so we don't get to rescind anything.
You and I may disagree, but we aren’t the govt,
No we just put them there insert excuse (here)
It does seem that rhetoric within parliament seems to be getting increasingly hardline. ERG nonsense is now being spouted by MPs who you really did think had more sense.
Its not just from the Tory's either. It looks like Labour MPs are now running scared in majority leave constituencies too, and getting to a point where they wouldn't be prepared to do anything to oppose a hard/no deal Brexit
The direction of travel in Westminster seems to be going firmly i the opposite direction of public opinion generally
Theres a certain irony to that really, given what the vote supposedly represente
Links to Swedish news: https://www.svd.se/darfor-ar-no-deal-en-big-deal
Headline on this is that few countries will want to have a trade deal with a country that takes the money and runs off. For example, a country that's threatened to not pay the divorce bill..
Spot on:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/30/brexit-political-class-politicians
If you want to hear another example of a brexiter flapping then Barclay on R4 today was really good. He was repeatedly asked what the ‘alternative arrangements’ were. Obviously no-one in the world knows so his evasion and discomfort was delightful
Nick Robinson just ended the interview in the end as it was a waste of time. Can anyone guess what word Barclay used when pressed on the 'alternative arrangments'?
Yes - it was (again) 'technology'. Can't they just change it up occasionally and maybe go for 'divine intervention' - just for a bit of variety?
The direction of travel in Westminster seems to be going firmly i the opposite direction of public opinion generally
I wouldn't be so sure. The average person in the street is likely to be less well informed way more likely to read the Murdoch run papers. They will likely buy the Big Bad EU nonsense will inevitably be churned out when they tell us what they have said all along that The Deal is The Deal*.
*And you don't even know what you want instead.
It looks like Labour MPs are now running scared in majority leave constituencies too, and getting to a point where they wouldn’t be prepared to do anything to oppose a hard/no deal Brexit
Its always been like this. A bunch of spineless numpties running scared of a few vocal racists. More than 100 labour MPS have publicly said they will vote against remain no matter what. Thats why Corbyn has been totally hamstrung. Your candidate for the labour leadership Burnham was one of them.
Corbyn is hamstrung by his centrist MPs? The likes of Yvette Cooper maybe?
Is that the view today beamed in from from planet Momentum?
Corbyn is a Brexiteer. Always has been. Always will be. Thats what forms his policy, not his centrist MP's. Thus whipping them, even when most were opposed, to facilitate Brexit at every step of the way
Picked this up from FB:
"Writing in his memoirs the French wartime leader Charles De Gaulle said about la perfide Albion and his distrust of the British establishment which led to his refusal to permit the UK to join the EEC in the early 1960s,
Pour l’Angleterre … il n’y a pas d’alliance qui tienne, ni de traité qui vaille, ni la vérité qui compte.
For England … there is no alliance which holds, nor treaty which has worth, nor truth which counts."
The UK could get off with that back then, it was still a first world power. We're a laughing stock now.
But they haven’t – that’s a unicorn too.
OK I said "due diligence" but I know very well it's actually been "sitting on our hands doing sod all". Just trying to suggest a get out for the poor dears. Of course I know they don't want to stop Brexit, but that would be the simplest way out of the mess.
Corbyn is hamstrung by the 100 or so labour mps who want out. Corbyn has to fight them to get any sort of a sensible deal. 17 of them voted against a motion to rule out no deal
Of course he is a hard leaver - having voted remain and campaigned for remain and having pushed for the softest of soft leaves.
He has a hard core or a dozen or so rampant brexiteers, another 80 or so MPs who want out 'cos they are scared of racists in their constituency and the right wing press
Your centreist guy who you wanted to lead the party - Burnham is one of these types - who say we must leave 'cos he has never an original thought in his head, he is cared of the racists voting him out and disgracefully played the racist card in his mayoral election
Thats the reality of the labour party - hopelessly split, dim and self serving. corbyn has to try to keep them all onside. 100 labour mps have publicly said they will vote against a second referendum
Is it late to plant veggies?
...
Starting to wonder what happens in no deal, not the mechanics but what happens to people and their attitudes. It is all well and good talking about food shortages being a good thing. But how will people respond when they are presented with ration cards? How will they respond when the life they know is completely turned over?
And the Mail and Express are selling it as a victory - lining up the EU stubbornness narrative.
And they'll get away with it with their 'readership'.
I don't think I will be able to control myself if I meet a leave voter who is complaining "I didn't vote for this" when their shopping bill is mysteriously 15% higher in April than March.
"Yes, you did vote for this. If you didn't understand, then you shouldn't have voted".
OK I have a master plan.
1. No deal Brexit.
2. Declare war on Europe.
3. Lose.
Italy – it seems the press in Europe are having a proper laugh or pop at our situation.
When the Italians are laughing at another country's political situation that's when you know you're entering a very surreal world.
German press is the same, mind. Thinks the UK has gone crazy. No one can understand why the UK ever voted to leave.
They’ll blame the EU
and what will they do? Just sit back eating tinned spam and fray bentos pies in front of X-factor?
Thats the reality of
the labour partyParliament – hopelessly split, dim and self serving.
FTFY
New referendum question:
The Titanic is about to leave port, you know it will sink in the mid-Atlantic and almost everyone on board will die. Do you want to get on:
a) Yes
b) No
You know what will happen if there is a No Deal, don't you?
It will coincide with a 'bit of a cold snap'.
We'll be back in Brussels, caps in hand, within a month.
The Titanic is about to leave port, you know it will sink in the mid-Atlantic and almost everyone on board will die. Do you want to get on
If I bought a ticket 2 years ago for what I thought was a different boat going to a different destination then, hell yes of course I must get on and ride it all the way to the iceberg. Furthermore I shall begin to claim that all my fellow passengers who did the same obviously knowingly bought a ticket for almost certain death and that's what they wanted all along, not the advertised gentle cruise to the sunlit uplands of Brexitania. Any concerns over the number of lifeboats are just Project Fear. Sure they 'might' not have enough capacity for everyone in the event that we hit an iceberg, but my mate down the pub says everyone he saw at the beach was a good swimmer so what's the problem.
German press is the same, mind. Thinks the UK has gone crazy. No one can understand why the UK ever voted to leave.
They wouldn't as they are the problem. Ruling the EU, getting everyone to sing to their tune etc,.
(must stop taking these brexiter tablets - I think they are mainly PCP)
Yes, but they'll still want to sell us their BMW's so they'll cave in at the 11th hour and give us everything we want. I've been confidently assured of this by Boris Johnson himself, who is the finest judge of such matters
why the UK ever voted to leave.
Halfwits - would you like lots of lovely free money spent on hospitals?
Definitely Not Racists - Would you like to be able to send those funny foreign people back where they belong, but not be called a racist, because this will just be "managing immigration"?
In short, a box to tick for the hard of thinking, and / or, a box to tick if you're racist, but don't want to admit it.
How will they respond when the life they know is completely turned over?
People phoned 999 when KFC ran out of chicken
I suspect they will respond... badly
Thats the reality of the labour party – hopelessly split
Both major parties are. That's because Brexit has split the country on a whole new fault line that runs through regions and parties and even families. And before anyone mentions Scotland it was pretty close there too in every constituency, there's only a small bias to remain.
OK I have a master plan.
1. No deal Brexit.
2. Declare war on Europe.
3. Lose.
Could we not just go for partition? The British were really good at that in the past. And it always worked out really well. Couldn't we just get some retired colonel draw an arbitrary line somewhere in the UK and the racist thickos can go and live in their Brexitty bit, ruled by Emperor Rees Mogg and the rest of us can have the good bit that won't immediately revert to some lord of the Flies style hell, and stay in the EU
London independence is the answer. The Brexiters think we should be like Singapore - well the rest of the country can be Malaysia then.
Scotland and London could build walls and go District 9 on the gammons.
OK I have a master plan.
1. No deal Brexit.
2. Declare war on Europe.
3. Lose.
Trouble at mill - the love in was never going to last. No10 say there is "no change" to PM's negotiating team, and Falconer and Braithwaite are not being invited onto it. ERG are furious, and insist this was promised to them yesterday by Gavin Barwell
Tweet from the Sun.
LOL!
Project fear? Or peanuts? Or "not all of their >whatever<' ?
https://twitter.com/tomboadle/status/1090604274080514053?s=21
No one ever accused Barclays of being stupid.
If you're referring to the whistle blowing scandal, sounds like sour grapes.
Remainers said this would happen. It did. 190bn of assets being relocated is going to hit the economy and exchequer hard.
And this is just the start.
Kiss your public services goodbye. The British public were warned, they are now going to be shat on from stratospheric heights.
But.... but... blue passports
A High Court judge has ruled that Barclays can shift assets worth €190bn to its Irish division as it “cannot wait any longer” amid continuing political uncertainty.
replace back stop with backdoor into and out of europe
I’ll try and find some links from the press here in Sweden about this bit of a mess, but the feeling in the office is that the UK is just going collectively mad.
What saddens me most about this is use of the word "collectively." If other countries are swallowing the "will of the people" horseshit too then that's absolutely tragic.
German press is the same, mind. Thinks the UK has gone crazy. No one can understand why the UK ever voted to leave.
To be fair, it's pretty well documented at this point if they want to find out.
Remainers said this would happen. It did. 190bn of assets being relocated is going to hit the economy and exchequer hard.
Not as much as one might imagine, much of these are the assets of their European branches so for tax purposes the UK cedes primary taxing rights to the country where the branch is located already.
Link mefty?
But…. but… blue passports
Mandated by the league of nations in the 20s, now an iconic tribute to other countries telling us what to do.
Read the judgement
I'm (sadly) proved right.
Sounds like much of European Union is about to stick two fingers up at the British nutters (that's all of us).
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47056349
Could we not just go for partition?
We could ask India and ****stan to manage that for us.
I'm not actually against the proposal but the divvying up could be tricky. It makes sense for the counties closest to Europe to remain, but actually those furthest away are more desirable.
Cheers Mefty.