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Ah, so, in the UK, it’s just that those you think are “centrist” aren’t left enough for you.
Try again. It really shouldnt be that hard.
We should have a decent left wing party and a decent right wing party and then a centrist and so on parties.
The problem is many of the "centrists" dont seem to comprehend they are a minority. We cant have the Labour party (or the Conservatives although that hasnt been pushed so much) dancing to our whims. If it was PR and not FPTP or AV then we would count more. However as it doesnt we dont.
We shouldnt have a system based around chasing the swing voters since that is inherently flawed not least into confusing "swing" with "centrist".
and especially ending FoM, is dancing to the hard right press barons’ demands.
Not really. If you actually check up on what the hard right is saying they are actually in favour of free movement of people. Its just that is a handy trigger that their press cheerleaders use.
centerists? ? the real centre is way over there to the left. Corbyns "marxist" policies are actually main stream european social democrat. Labour "moderates" are actually right of centre. Tory "moderates" are right wing, May and co are hard right by any rational political definitions
Well Yvette Cooper has been doing a damn sight better job of holding the government to account over Brexit than the useless, beardy allotment-dweller
Yvette Cooper is making sure her 17% in the leadership battle increases.
The centrists had their shot and blew it not fighting the argument over debt and deficit bullshit.
Because of that we've ended up with this file Tory austerity.
You know the thing that Alasdair Campbell forgets about whilst he's squealing for a second referendum.
Culpable.
People voted for this bloody thing because of centrist neo-liberal elites, on both labour and tory sides, ignoring them.
Who exactly would they be? I think there's been precious little "centrism" in UK politics for decades.
I saw that clip last night zippy. It is scary how someone in a position of influencing millions of voters on the issue, is so badly informed on the issue of WTO rules. That clip is a shocker.
I'm currently talking to Farage's office and the lady in there is totally clueless.
When I told her about the 30% tax on chocolate she said " that's worse than the eu" and then advised me to talk to my mep.
"If you had to distil into one personage the British people’s gibbering historical deference to terrible ideas advanced by low-to-middlebrow post-feudal shitlords who openly detest them, this plastic aristocrat would be it."
No prizes for guessing who Martina Hyde in the Graun was tearing apart here.
Made me smile though
Someone claiming that the "hard right" are in favour of FoM is my highlight from this week's Lexit defending bullshit. Well done @dissonance, you have chosen your handle well.
One family history that's worth some contemplation…
https://twitter.com/guitarmoog/status/1088960821126987776?s=21
Thanks for sharing that Kelvin. Got very dusty here reading it and the following comments. It is very pertinent to me as my wife is German and both her grandfathers were killed in WW2. One of them never even got to see his child, he died on the eastern front before the birth. His body was never recovered and Birgit's Grandmother spent the rest of her (long) life never coming to terms with it and refusing to give up hope he might have somehow survived.
In the imperial war museum there is a small black and white picture of a railway bridge in Bulgaria.It was taken during the cold war .
The person who took that picture risked his life to take it so that others could risk their lives to blow it up.
When I saw that picture a few years back I realised that I could go to the bridge and take as many pictures of it that I liked. I could buy a house next to it and live there. I realised that we had made massive steps towards peace.
We are now are taking our first steps backwards .
By the way, did anyone else notice this at the bottom of the Sky story where the boss of Unipart dismissed Little Liam out of hand as having ‘extremely low credibility’?
A friend of Dr Fox said: "The people trying to discredit Liam need to accept that the UK voted to leave the EU in a democratic referendum and the result must be honoured".
I wonder......was this another ‘special friend’ that our Liam had taken along on a junket using public money?
‘Extremely low credibility’ is actually doing him a favour. He is very lucky to have a total spanner like Grayling attracting all the ridicule as he is also a total tosspot.
Blank sheet of paper no red lines.
Where do you think the 'common ground' is - Norway?
EU just closed the medicines approval office 900 jobs gone...
To paraphrase another scumbag.
Where there is harmony May will bring discord.
Where there is truth May may will bring error.
Where there is faith May will bring doubt and where there is hope May will bring despair.
Compare Herr Bergmann's tweet with another of our Little England ERG idiots.
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1088814152037138435
EU just closed the medicines approval office 900 jobs gone…
Maybe we could make a medal that says " I gave my job for brexit".
Every June 23rd they could march up the street while we all clap them then the rest of the year we can call them scrounging parasites.
I really don't get how people bring the suggestion of War into the equation.
The EU has basically ended all war in the European geographical area.
Look at the rest of the world..
Yes my friend is off to Amsterdam wth his wife and family. That’s about 150k of salaried tax paying money leaving the country. We’ll be fine.
I really don’t get how people bring the suggestion of War into the equation.
Take a look at the films we made about the war, the TV shows and the way it used to be remembered. It's about being plucky and right, it's about beating the odds and showing the world how we are just a bit awesome. It's been taken on by those who want poorly fill the shoes of those who made tough decisions in the face of poor odds.
Other countries remember how it destroyed them and have learnt from that.
As for the prick of an MP, he better get used to being bullied if we leave, the EU will do it, the US will do it, in fact most countries will do it and succeed.
My dad was wounded after landing at Anzio, he loved that Europe was united and bore no ill will to the Germans, that twit Francois is talking utter bobbins.
what an absolute ****
And his Mum is / was Italian..... you know, the Italians our brave lads fought against as well as the Germans he seems to be so disdainful of.
I really don’t get how people bring the suggestion of War into the equation
Not sure if you read up but good ol' rule Britannia has been causing shit worldwide since oooh the crusades, without it it seems we are ERM well **** all as a nation to some
Those 9 f35s , an aircraft less aircraft carrier and an army that needs to hire ****ing anyone they can at the minute should deal the deal as one of the most potent military powers in the world
What kind of tosser prints off a letter only to rip it up on camera. You’ve ripped up your own letter on your own paper. I wonder what went wrong in his life, or what is missing from his life that he turned out to be such a ****.
Well this is a thing https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47014322
So in a similar vein can we get everyone to call for an end to Brexit?
Where do you think the ‘common ground’ is – Norway?
If the hardliners voted against the backstop deal they aren't going to go for Norway style. So it depends on what Labour do.
I think on a free vote you would have4 400+ mps vote for staying in the customs union and the single market - so Norway +
Nice to see Francois is getting a bit of a drubbing on Twitter from the phone folk of Rayleigh.
Maybe we could make a medal that says ” I gave my job for brexit”.
If we can sell them for a quid each we'll be rolling in money.
cant we have a re-join referendum on the 1st April?
Its not a second vote as its a different question , would you like join the EU and let the good times roll?
When Airbus up sticks and tens of thousands of jobs are lost, the likes of Francois are in deep shit. Not every one of those newly unemployed workers is going to swallow the lie that it was all an EU stitch up, in fact I am pretty sure the majority won’t. They will want answers and he will be someone a lot of them will be keen to ask to his face. I hope he’s got a suitcase packed.
If there is any justice the police will cite ‘budgetary constraints’ when he requests round the clock protection. Hopefully they’ll point him in the direction of G4S as they’ve got such a great track record.
The arrogant swine actually think they’re all going to get away with this all of the time. They won’t.
If we rejoin, then I am in all the way - Schengen, Euro, the lot. Purely to piss off the Eurosceptics as much as possible.
When Airbus up sticks and tens of thousands of jobs are lost, the likes of Francois are in deep shit. Not every one of those newly unemployed workers is going to swallow the lie that it was all an EU stitch up, in fact I am pretty sure the majority won’t. They will want answers and he will be someone a lot of them will be keen to ask to his face. I hope he’s got a suitcase packed.
Yep I don’t think hemorrhaging jobs is going to play out well, its very easy for the people without need for a job happily sacrificing others with the old war rhoetric of a bygone world(that you may not have even inhabited ), but if your the worker who’s livelihood has suddenly gone along with a thousand others in the same town 🙁
Times are troublesome we’re definately standing at the crossroads of something.(sound s project fear)
I think on a free vote you would have4 400+ mps vote for staying in the customs union and the single market – so Norway +
Agree, I see that as the outcome. Whether it was worth leaving to do that is another matter though but we (they) are past that stage of thinking.
Agree, I see that as the outcome. Whether it was worth leaving to do that is another matter though but we (they) are past that stage of thinking.
Caught in the lie looking for a way out.
looks like they’re going to have to work longer hours as well.
If we rejoin, then I am in all the way – Schengen, Euro, the lot. Purely to piss off the Eurosceptics as much as possible.
Oh, I want way more than that. I was thinking ‘re-education’ camps on the Cultural Revolution model.
Caught in the lie looking for a way out.
looks like they’re going to have to work longer hours as well.
My heart bleeds. Screw ‘em. To a greater or lesser extent they have all enabled this abomination by running scared of the Daily Mail. So they’re going to have to drop plans at the last minute, work late into the evening at short notice, not see or speak to the kids for a few days. Well, we’ve all had to do that at some point, so......meh get on with it. This is your mess, so-called politicians, so get politicking and do your ****ing job.
Don’t worry folks, Matt Hancock has reassured us all (on Marr this morning) the the imposition of Martial Law on March 29th ‘isn’t the focus’ of government planning, though it remains a possibility
Well, that’s nice to know Matt
mattyfez
Member
I really don’t get how people bring the suggestion of War into the equation.The EU has basically ended all war in the European geographical area.
Look at the rest of the world..
If you completely discount the yugoslavian kerfuffle and the ukrainain square go! 😆 true I guess.
I had the unfortunate 'pleasure' of meeting Mr Francois at a reception when he was a junior Defence minister - he was just your typical puffed-up Whitehall prat. Nothing appears to have changed except he's gained about 5 stone.
I’m assuming he represents a constituency where you could pin a Tory rosette on a baboons arse and it would get elected?
Discussing Brexit last night, as you do, we concluded that the only positive thing to come out of it would be the emergence of lynch mobs to meter out appropriate vengeance on the Brexiteers such as Mr Francois who blithely assured us that everything would be just fine
This Dominic Cummings Blogpost from 2015 foretells the situation we are currently in and how we got here. It seems to me that the only way out is to bin the lot.
OH DEAR, ODEY...
How to describe hedge fund manager and Leave campaign backer Crispin Odey? After looking to make money from Brexit, knowing it would not benefit those he was encouraging to support it, he appears to deserve his nickname of Crispin Odious.
This former mentor of leading Brexiteer Jacob Rees Mogg had been talking the pound down to at least $1. 21, while insisting Britain had to "go on our own". As recently as last August "Odious" told Rueters he would "short" sterling up to 29 March, expecting Brexit would hit the UK economy. A fall in the pound makes imports more expensive and increases the cost of living.
But then, before last week's overwhelming Common's defeat for Theresa May's deal, "Odious" changed his tune. A sudden preference for principle over profit? By a fund manager? No. "Odious" now thought Brexit would not happen, which would mean sterling would rally. So he told the Financial Times he had closed all his "short" positions. Just how big these "shorts" were, or how profitable, is unknown. So much for Britain first.
c/o Private Eye
That Mark Francois interview is a weird one, on the remainer side you have everyone saying what a tool this guy is & the leavers have posted it, talking about him like he's the new messiah...
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1088782296583421952
Genuine question; what is the modern-day bullying that he's referring to?
Guessing he thinks they are trying to make us do what they want. I don't think Francois fully understands the relationship between a country and an international business though.
I don't no wot to fink cos he has a forren name.
Ah, so he's suggesting that Airbus are actually trying to bully the UK into staying in the EU, rather than just reacting to a changing business environment, whilst publicising what effect that changing environment will have?
Sounds like a solid understanding of the situation, to me.
Still, let's keep taking back control, eh...!
In other news, my mam (DM reader, voted leave) admitted last Friday she'd been sold a pup by the leave campaign and had voted the wrong way. There is a smidge of hope.
it appears there is a new scapegoat today, bloody irish stopping us from having our way...
Latest economic survey suggests a whole 11% of people think we'll be better off financially in 12 months time.
Touching naivety by Private Eye on Odey - no point in trying to shame a person who has no shame.
The headlines are still not encouraging. Even those that realise we are making a terrible mistake house a large subset of people who think we can DEMAND that the EU, Ireland, Merkel, whoever help us out of our self-dug hole. They also think we can BLAME them if they don't help us out of our self-dug hole.
Only we can get ourselves out of this without irreparable damage and it will take a necessary amount of admitting we are wrong and apologising. Those are not traits that spring to mind when defining our national psyche.
Latest economic survey suggests a whole 11% of people think we’ll be better off financially in 12 months time.
But 'we' are not leaving to be financially better off.
Also, in 12+ months time most people won't be better off as there will be a wide spread recession starting.
Love the comments on the BBC website regarding this article...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47028748
People really don't understand supply chains, or importing or exporting. They need to just get behind this & it'll be Ok...
Dear me, the comments on that BBC article are absolutely terrifying. People have no idea, not a scooby do how big commercial enterprises in a regulated environment operate. People saying "ahh we'll just import from USA/Australia" Christ alive how **** thick are people. We literally have information at our fingertips and people are so misinformed.
The level of ignorance is staggering. We're doomed. I need to stop reading stuff like that as it makes me sad and angry.
But ‘we’ are not leaving to be financially better off.
Aren't we? Food is going to be cheaper when we no longer have to trade on the corrupt EU's protectionist tariffs, isn't it? And the EU is holding us back from making great trade deals with emerging economies around the world, isn't it? And when we stop sending billions and billions to the EU, we'll be financially better off, won't we? And when we stop immigrants coming in, lowering the wages for honest British workers, and creaming off all the benefits and being a drain on school and hospital places, we'll be financially better off, won't we?
Or are you saying all of that is total bollocks?
People seem to have missed that the EU don't want us to do well, as they are now our competitor. We've created 300 million extra competitors out of allies.
In other news, my mam (DM reader, voted leave) admitted last Friday she’d been sold a pup by the leave campaign and had voted the wrong way.
… mine too, but she blames Corbyn – I think she believes it was all his idea, and because he 'has bad teeth', as far as I can tell.
There is a smidge of hope.
Not with mine. She shrugs her shoulders and says "well I'll be gone soon anyway, then you'll have to sort it all out".
Thanks, Mum.
People seem to have missed that the EU don’t want us to do well, as they are now our competitor. We’ve created 300 million extra competitors out of allies.
Yep. Brexit supporters portray themselves as 'bold, brave, forward-looking' - but they are not. They're misinformed and misguided, and all their arguments sound naive to me.
And, whatever they're arguing about in parliament today, I'm sure it's going to seem academic when the shelves are half empty and half of us can't get work any more because all the HQs have been moved to Germany, France or the Netherlands.
I wonder if the Brexit supporters will admit they might have got it wrong then? I doubt it. It will still all have been someone else's fault.
People seem to have missed that the EU don’t want us to do well
That is the kind of bollocks spouted by brexiteers, the EU are at worst indifferent to the UK's sucsess outside the EU, in reality their philosophy has always been to grow stronger with partners, they don't see it as a fight to the death where winner takes all (unfortunately we are exposing ourselves to be picked over by countries who do see the world in that manner, such as the USA).
The EU are not trying to punish us, destroy or even hamper the UK in any way, they have offered a more than fair deal, as good as any have outside the bloc. It is the UK's arrogance that is he problem, and we are going to find the world a cold hard place having rejected our closest allies.
So assuming no ammendments get voted through tomorrow (every MP still ahtes every other MPs plans as far as I can tell)
what happens next?
… mine too, but she blames Corbyn – I think she believes it was all his idea, and because he ‘has bad teeth’, as far as I can tell.
She doesn't post on this forum under the name 'binners' does she?
The EU are not trying to punish us, destroy or even hamper the UK in any way
That's not what I meant. Just that we are now competitors, and they'll compete,v as you do with anyone.
It is the UK’s arrogance that is he problem, and we are going to find the world a cold hard place having rejected our closest allies.
We are now the Ronnie Pickering of Europe.
That Mark Francois interview is a weird one, on the remainer side you have everyone saying what a tool this guy is & the leavers have posted it, talking about him like he’s the new messiah…
And that in a nutshell is the reason we are in this mess. Someone can spout Boys Own Adventure / Biggles / Commando comic nonsense about giving the impudent hun a good drubbing and rather than pointing out that those views are about 70 years of date they get lapped up instead.
He was only missing his Help for Heroes t-shirt
It actually sickens me, that the obscene lie that our forefathers fought to for petty nationalists and racists. It is a complete misrepresentation of the truth. The generation that fought took us to Europe, to heal our differences and bring peace and prosperity to a continent, and it worked.
It is these scum beating the jingoistic drums who disgrace the sacrifice made by the wartime generations.
Ok so this is something that I don't understand, but apparently labour are abstaining from voting on the immigration bill today. Is this the bill that removes our rights to move about the EU?
https://www.bbc.com/food/brassica
https://www.bbc.com/food/root_vegetable
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/collection/lamb
Leave recipe book.
Corbyns stated stance is to end freedom of movement. Its one of his red lines just much as it is Mays. No matter what Labour MP's say, when it comes to important votes in the house of commons to do with Brexit Jezza whips his MPs to facilitate the Tory's policy
The fact that the half-wits propping him up carry on going along with this I find genuinelly inexplicable
If you're looking for someone to save us from this upcoming catastrophe, or even make it slightly less bad, don't be looking to the Labour front bench for salvation.
On Brexit, May and Corbyn are two cheeks of the same arse
PrinceJohn
Member
Ok so this is something that I don’t understand, but apparently labour are abstaining from voting on the immigration bill today. Is this the bill that removes our rights to move about the EU?
It's only the second reading- abstaining basically means "we can't wholly support or oppose this", ie there's bits we agree with and bits we don't.
The usual suspects are making a lot of noise over it but it's basically at the "there's going to be a bill about immigration" stage, it's not even been to committee yet let alone amendments. Soubry is making a lot of noise about voting against, because she knows it doesn't matter, frinstance.
I remember someone- possibly Ken Clarke- described voting against a 2nd reading as being like refusing to pick up a pen, because you're worried about what you might write.
I guess more relevantly, this is one of the many laws that we have to pass in order to function after brexit, that we now don't have time to pass before the original A50 deadline.
I’m getting to the point where I can’t watch the news any more. The BBC is just talking about food shortages and some Brexit loon said ‘good! I think it’ll do the country some good to go without for a while’
I mean, where do you even start with that level of total ****-wittery
Maybot was meeting with the swiveleyed contingent tonight to try & get them to vote for the Brady amendment on her deal....
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1089947682632884226?s=19
Ok so this is something that I don’t understand, but apparently labour are abstaining from voting on the immigration bill today. Is this the bill that removes our rights to move about the EU?
Have you been sleeping for the past few years?
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If that is the case then defeat and another vote of no confidence to follow.
SNP and lib-dems have already stated they will not support labour to keep calling votes of no confidence, and she would win anyway. If labour want to do something, they need to do it, just standing by watching the tories **** the country up isn't working. Give us an alternative to get behind, or get out the **** out of the way, and let someone else have a go.
And what exactly can they do? They can't win a vote of no confidence as you say since it makes total sense to the tories to humiliate her in a brexit vote and to prevent the country from working properly, and then vote for her in a no confidence vote. What's he supposed to do, put a stake through her chest?
It's stalemate- the most ridiculous stalemate ever- and the only way Labour can break it is by voting for May's deal. Everything else falls into the same mad Tory kickabout.
It’s stalemate- the most ridiculous stalemate ever- and the only way Labour can break it is by voting for May’s deal. Everything else falls into the same mad Tory kickabout.
The only other option is to get May to resign (and Corbyn) paths laid out as by the Gaurdian above, if she can't pass anything it relies on MP's abandoning party, No Deal means it's first against the wall time for quite a lot of them so the sense of self preservation may kick in.
30 working days of parliament left before the 29th March apparently...
Few more days if they call off the "holiday".
So May is asking everyone to vote for an amendment that offers an ‘alternative’ to the backstop, but won’t tell us what that might actually be? And the EU won’t reopen negotiations anyway?
And this is what passes for governance in this *ed-up country now, is it?
We truly are totally *ed!