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[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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Maybe they’re not a nation where racist simpletons are in the slight majority? 😉


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:16 pm
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If anything, it’s a pretty damning indictment of the expensive U.K. private education system. From Cameron through to this half-wit, we’re in this mess due to the rank stupidity and incompetence of people who’ve had the most expensive education money can buy

more like evidence that the privileges obtained in the private education system enable the less bright people to actually become PM and other things they would never have got to otherwise.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:16 pm
 mrmo
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Maybe they’re not a nation where racist simpletons are in the slight majority? 😉

First i like Switzerland, but you really should go and research some of the questions and the results!


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:24 pm
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They have a lot of referendums but they also have the good sense to ignore the stupid results.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:27 pm
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Maybe they’re not a nation where racist simpletons are in the slight majority?

Not spent much time in Switzerland then...


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:31 pm
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I think May has 280 Tory MPs that might vote for her deal, she has 15 (minimum) Labour votes.

This gets her to 295....

Question is how many abstentions could there be?

Gove has stuck it out and he is mercenary i think he thinks it might just make it...

This would leave him the first choice as leader for the next GE.

JRM shouted charge and no one followed.

The rank and file of the Tories is very quiet.

The rank and file of the Labour Party is very quiet.

Might get down  the bookies and stick a few quid on it.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:37 pm
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So you can be a minister. quit because you didn't tell the truth to parliament, and be back in because there is no one else left

Really????


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:37 pm
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The Tory part just get worse & worse... Where is the punishment for doing your job wrong? Anyone else who diplays the current level of ineptitude in the government would be sacked & possibly face criminal charges... They're all made of teflon, nothing sticks.

& it's kind of a shame this thread has become a remain echo chamber - I would love the get the STWleavers take on current events


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:40 pm
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she has 15 (minimum) Labour votes.

This is where I would imagine the the number to be much higher.  A lot of Labour MPs don't like Corbyn so would happily go against in a matter this important to them.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:42 pm
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If this were referendum isn't legally binding ....

can i just stay in Europe on my own


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:44 pm
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& it’s kind of a shame this thread has become a remain echo chamber – I would love the get the STWleavers take on current events

were they banned or just shouted down

Or

did they change their user names and become remainers


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:46 pm
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Steve Barclay the new Brexit Sec.  No idea who he is but this part of his wikipedia page leapt out at me:

Barclay was named by Conservative Home as one of a minority of loyal Conservative backbench MPs not to have voted against the government in any significant rebellions.<sup id="cite_ref-12" class="reference">[12]</sup>


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:46 pm
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I would love the get the STWleavers take on current events

No chance. Followed their hero Boris in expelling a load of hot air, wasting a lot of everyone's time, and then flouncing when the slightest bit of heat came on. Currently laying low.

Predictable.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:49 pm
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Not spent much time in Switzerland then…

And

First i like Switzerland, but you really should go and research some of the questions and the results!

There was however, a study done recently by PEW that showed that Brits were more against Jews or Muslims marrying into the family than any other nation in Europe bar Italy.

So it would seem that we are even more racist than the likes of Austria - we're just polite about it.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 5:55 pm
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^^ Not even so polite these days....


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 6:00 pm
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I genuinely thought the Leavers in the thread had been banned since I last dipped my toes in to here?

Not over their opinions but manner of extolling them perhaps?

Much better if they did  just fall away from the thread over time though. How much does that day about the situation?.....


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 6:02 pm
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I knew I had seen yesterday before...


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 6:26 pm
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I very much doubt 15+ labour voters will back the deal.  Hoey has said she won't 'cos its not a proper leave and it won't satisfy Stringer either.

I would be surprised if half a dozen will 'cos Mays deal is too soft for the rabids and those who believe that the "will of the people must be respected" are generally remainers by instinct so will be able to square voting down the deal as it not being good enough.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 6:31 pm
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Surely we can now call leavers  thick  idiots etc...

Following yesterday debacle it has to be official


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 6:31 pm
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Not even so polite these days

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/06/01/qa-measuring-attitudes-toward-muslims-and-jews-in-western-europe/

Apparently, some people still wonder why Jews want their own state when they could live in Britain or America - roflmao.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 6:34 pm
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Amber Rudd back in cabinet!

Who will be next? If things get any worse they’ll be asking the dude who was spanking his monkey to Internet grot on a government laptop back!

Ask yourselves this. The loony brexiteers know that a no deal will be an economic cataclysm. They know they’ll most likely be ousted at the next election and off into the wilderness, so this can’t be about long term power.

What Brexit is really about is them enabling their spiv mates - short sellers and smash and grab outsourcing firms to make a one-off killing as they feed them the inside track and bring the NHS finally to its knees. For a cut, of course.

We would rightly traduce them and maybe even try to prosecute some of them, but it will be too late. The money will be offshore and they’ll be gone.

Brexit is the heist of a lifetime.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 6:46 pm
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Bang on! These nutters want the chaos of a no deal Brexit so they can finally, amongst the anarchy and the financial meltdown,  force through policies they wouldn’t have a chance of getting through otherwise.

The banking crisis was a dress rehearsal for the main act to come.

Hope you all enjoyed the NHS and the welfare state while it lasted. Their days are now numbered


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 7:44 pm
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Kind of looking forward to it Binners, the plebs will be reminded that we aren't all in this together and there is no such thing as patriotism only self interest. And me and the wife will hopefully get taxed less in a Singapore type economy.

**** them all.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 7:50 pm
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Nice.

= :87(


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 8:09 pm
 mrmo
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There was however, a study done recently by PEW that showed that Brits were more against Jews or Muslims marrying into the family than any other nation in Europe bar Italy.

Doesn't shock me In the slightest,


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 9:48 pm
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The loony brexiteers know that a no deal will be an economic cataclysm.

Are you sure? They may not grasp the subtleties in that they are and always have been from money. They may just think that they can go back to the past and live in downton abbey.

Never underestimate stupidity or think there is a plan


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 10:15 pm
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Gove staying on feels like a game changer.  If one of the main protagonists of vote leave is staying in government and supporting the deal then it sends a message to the loonies that there isn’t a better option out there.


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 11:17 pm
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 If one of the main protagonists of vote leave is staying in government and supporting the deal then it sends a message to the loonies that there isn’t a better option out there.

Unless he stands up and publicly says this is the best that can be done it means nothing...


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 11:43 pm
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5 Brexit ministers are going to convince the PM of a tiny, weeny change to the draft proposal.lol

Nothing big, just ditch the back stop and use "technology"/ unicorn farts instead. Yeah, the EU are really going to go for that.... Delusional or what.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46243745


 
Posted : 16/11/2018 11:53 pm
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So many genuine things we need to fix on this country (+the world)

Instead were sucked into this naval gazing crapshow of brexit for a decade


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 12:06 am
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lol send a message to the loonies? they don't want a better deal, that is where you are missing the real aims of the ****s


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 12:11 am
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Gove has stayed to renegotiate the deal in his head so he can come out of this as the saviour of brexit and thus be crowned PM.  His ambition far outstrips his abilities


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 12:13 am
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Unless he stands up and publicly says this is the best that can be done it means nothing…

Once the dust settles a great deal more MP's might come to the realization that it's  actually that. The NI Ireland border is the huge Elephant in the room, and to date I haven't heard a better solution than whats on offer (kicking it down the road and hoping for an epiphany). If TM stays as PM, were leaving with her deal or no deal. Given that choice it might just get voted through.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 1:49 am
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A decade, kimbers? I see you are in an optimistic phase.

I'm planning on it lasting for the rest of my life. Brexit will only end when it is widely recognised that it is the plaything of a bunch of public schoolboys who don't give two hoots about the rest of the country. And given the awareness of the typical voter, I'm not holding my breath on that.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 5:20 am
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So Gove’s hanging around to see if he can sort things out a bit. It’s like he’s saying that it’s better stay and change things from within rather than have a toys out of the oram hissy fit isn’t it? There’s some kind of parallel out there somewhere but I can’t quite put my finger on it.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 8:24 am
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The loony brexiteers know that a no deal will be an economic cataclysm.

Yes, they are disaster capitalists but don't want to say it too loud.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 8:58 am
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I wonder whether there are actually 48 Conservative MPs with enough gumption to write those letters.

If not, it will be hilarious, as we will all be living with this deal for evermore.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 10:34 am
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So the year is 2025

May is still PM & determined to get a brexit deal agreed by the next EU summit.

Baker & Mogg are promising that there will be 48 letters in sometime next week.

Damian Green has just resigned as brexit secretary for the 2nd time (inappropriate touching of Sabine Weyands knee) Larry the Downing St cat is tipped to be the 33rd person in that roll, but we're still not desperate enough to call on Nadine Dories

Support for a people's vote is now at 85% (the 2020 Statin rationing debacle really ate into the leave vote)  but Labour & Tories still adamant that the will of the people takes precedence over the errr, will of the people.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 11:16 am
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So the Brexiters plan to get May to shift on the deal do they not realise its the EU they need to shift?

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46243745 <


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 11:40 am
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Guy Verhofstadt on Radio 4 on Thursday morning was saying there is no way the EU would renegotiate.

As someone from NI, this Brexit thing really does look like uncontrolled English nationalism.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 11:45 am
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So the Brexiters plan to get May to shift on the deal do they not realise its the EU they need to shift?

It's OK it's normal to expect nobody in the eu to read this.

It's as if the fantasy is still going.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 11:47 am
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I think the maybot might be in trouble from the remainers in her party too, if they think they can get a candidate that will offer a second 3 way ref they could vote with the erg nutters. (assuming the 48 letters are forthcoming)


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 1:08 pm
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Conservative Home have just backed Savid Javid for next PM.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 1:27 pm
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this is what my first thoughts were for Conservative Home

I did have to google it....

Time to split them properly, we want a Remain vs Leave battle to decide the leadership


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 1:33 pm
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Conservative Home have just backed Savid Javid for next PM.

The brexiters won't be happy, he looks too much like the kind they are trying to keep out...


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 2:14 pm
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Tim Montgomerie prophesies the Agreement passing through Parliament, a leadership challenge, Javid assuming the throne and then negotiating the Future Relationship...


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 2:50 pm
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Parliament accepting the "soft landing" that the withdrawal deal gives us, and then all hell breaking lose after we have left, in the battle for what we are actually going to put in place long term, is probably what will happen. Tim Montgomerie is probably spot on there.

We shouldn't allow parliament to do this for us, when they know it is a damaging approach, but feel they have to because of the vote in 2016.

Big tactical mistake to call a vote on the exit deal a "people's vote"… that's just populism and means nothing… should be called the "confirmation vote"… the mandate to Leave resulted in 2 years of government putting everything into getting the best exit deal… now we should be given the choice, and the control, to confirm or remain.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 3:22 pm
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Boris and Farage meeting in a restaurant yesterday according to Twitter

if Putin and Russia has had a hand in what is happening here and in America then chapeau, he achieved his goal and some.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 3:37 pm
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I'm a bit out of date..

I take it there's not enough letters for a leadership challenge then? I know it's Saturday and MPs don't like working regular hours, never mind pulling a Saturday shift, but I'd have thought it would be public knowledge by now if they had the numbers?


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 3:48 pm
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If there is, then the subsequent vote would be good for May, when she wins by a mile, and then can't be challenged again before the exit date.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 4:14 pm
 AD
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Pigface - there is a lovely picture of Farage and BoJo (and his dad) on the the front of The Mirror with the headline 'Swine dining' which I rather liked.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 4:15 pm
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That's odd because it never occurred to me that the ERG were impotent egotistical windbags with a poor grip on reality. They seem so...reasonable.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 4:15 pm
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, but I’d have thought it would be public knowledge by now if they had the numbers?

Possibly, though you also want to know what your plan is before you hit the button (mad thinking I know) depending on who has the balance of those putting the letters in (or withholding a block) probably want to get the numbers counted for their option before starting the process


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 4:21 pm
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/16/opinion/sunday/brexit-theresa-may-politics.html

Well at least the Americans can look here for some distraction from their own problems

The final point being that is that the more the ERG and fellow idiots push for impossible and dangerous outcomes the more the case for a second referendum is made.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 4:45 pm
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So it's all going to May's plan then, not enough letters to start a leader challenge..

May's deal won't make it through a commons vote.

Also part of the plan..

Cliff edge brexit or remain.

It always had to come to to that/this as there's no other viable option.

Hence why (as a remainer ) I've been against a second referendum.. A second ref would just reset the clock and not solve the practical issues.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 5:02 pm
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So it’s all going to May’s plan then, not enough letters to start a leader challenge..

Can you be certain about that? If you have the letters you decide the timeline. The rumours/leaks coming out on Friday suggested it would be Tuesday

To credit such an error prone and constant misjudger of situations with executing this as a plan is generous to say the least


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 5:06 pm
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I can't be certain.. I only have access to the same news that you do.

But if there was enough 'dear John' letters I think we'd know about it by now.?

So we have to assume a commons vote and have to hope it gets voted down.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 5:38 pm
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It’s starting to look like a cliff edge exit, or calling the whole thing off.

If it’s a cliff edge, this country will need about 25 years to recover. I’ll be seriously considering some kind of emigration.

Wales, in particular, will be utterly ****ed. You can’t move in Wales for infrastructure and other projects bearing the EU logo. All that goes. Just like that. Insanity.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 5:41 pm
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To be fair the infrastructure will still be there, it's not like that are actual going to take it away brick by brick. Still, I can't deny that I've also been eyeing up the possibilities for a quick exit.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 5:52 pm
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But if there was enough ‘dear John’ letters I think we’d know about it by now.?

No, for the reasons above, having the letters and deciding how to use them are 2 different things, could be some strong arm tactics against her in private first, could be all sorts of horse trading going on behind the scenes.

So we have to assume a commons vote and have to hope it gets voted down.

It's a possibility, though I'd not put the house on her putting her deal to the house as PM.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 5:59 pm
 tomd
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My local Tory ERG headbanger MP has just posted an update in his Facebook regarding his letter.

On his first post when he submitted the letter he was giving it billy big bollocks gammon bingo.

This post read a bit like a flounce. Standing up for what I believe in etc. A whiff of heroic failure about it.

I'm going to say the coup has failed.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 6:26 pm
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So the brexiteers in the cabinet presently plottting a coup are Fox, Grayling, Leadson, Mordaunt and Gove - a motley crew of half-wits who’s collective IQ would struggle to make it into double figures

If i was her I’d sack the ****ing lot of them, but then she must be running out of people to actually appoint who are capable of tying their own shoelaces.its questionable whether any of that lot manage that.

i mean... Chris ‘Failing’ Grayling - a man so dim he genuinely thinks he’s doing a great job as transport minister, even after the debacle of the railways over the last year  - thinks he’s in a position to be dictating Brexit policy?

Unbelievable!


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 6:56 pm
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Fox, Grayling, Leadson, Mordaunt and Gove

Beggars belief that any any of them have ever got above middle management. Another thing that Brexit has made me realise, alongside how regressive, petty and racist this country actually is, is how poor are the levels of intelligence in the higher echelons of politics.

Depressing.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 7:26 pm
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Nadine Dorries complaining that the deal gives us no MEPs and no EU Commissioners must take the biscuit though for the most stupid utterance from a brexiter so far.

But of course we must remember to not call them thick.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 7:40 pm
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Yes I agree that a 2nd ref is a bit of a silly idea but really see it as a stalking horse for postponing/abandoning brexit by any means. Remember until recently brexit has been a certainty (according to all journalists, politicians and most definitely the BBC). A supertanker needs nudging round gently, it won't stop on a sixpence.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 8:20 pm
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You did spot that was a mash article in binners link....

2nd ref could be fairly conclusive if the question is right and and the realisation is there


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 8:24 pm
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Time to reanimate Brother Crow to handle Brexit.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 8:52 pm
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but then she must be running out of people to actually appoint who are capable of tying their own shoelaces

Looking at the people who have been in the cabinet the past couple of years I'm not sure that has ever been a requirement...


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 9:20 pm
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I did Mike but why would anyone expect 17 million gullible simpletons to suddenly turned into intelligent voters who care about putting the country first?

Isn't the definition of insanity to do the same thing twice and expect a different outcome?


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 10:25 pm
 MSP
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2nd ref could be fairly conclusive if the question is right

And that is the problem, the cretins in government would see it as losing face to change tack, so they will rig any second referendum with a loaded question. IMO if there is a second referendum it will be a choice between May's deal or a no deal brexit. Therefore in their eyes validating their actions and absolving them of responsibility.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 10:31 pm
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I did Mike but why would anyone expect 17 million gullible simpletons to suddenly turned into intelligent voters who care about putting the country first?

Yep, as 17 million don't represent any of the options on the table


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 10:36 pm
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Have we seen the PR job

?

It's definitely not about immigrants, but it's definitely about immigrants

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/1063854452707401728?s=19


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 10:42 pm
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I watched that with the sound off...

Is it more convincing with the sound on? 😉


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 10:57 pm
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Thick people haven’t just suddenly educated themselves. Racists are still racists. I reckon a second vote would deliver much the same. Despite what the more enlightened would optimistically like to think.

Unfortunately we have to acknowledge that we live in a country stuffed full of shit-thick racists.

This is about damage limitation now. We can all rue the fact that we live in a country of shit-thick, economically illiterate racists, but it appears we do

It’d be nice if we had an opposition party who were prepared to stand up and offer a vision more compelling than shit-thick racism, but we are where we are.

If I was an age when I didn’t have teenage kids settled in school, if I was pre all that, I’d be getting the * out of this backward gazing country, harking back to some mythical 50’s never never land, while I still could.

Its an irony that post-all this shit, when the carnage unravels, when the educated young bolt for the exits (as I would have been doing if I was them) the boomers, the gilded generation, will have ed that option for them too.

Best to stay here, work in your zero-hours, minimum wage job so they keep getting their pensions payed


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 11:02 pm
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I reckon a second vote would deliver much the same. Despite what the more enlightened would optimistically like to think.

Yes, it would deliver much the same, there clearly wouldn't be a swing from 52:48 to something like 70:30 the other way but I do thing their would be a swing to something like 52:48 the other way.  Still too close to act upon but hey, the "Will of the people"

While I agree the country has always been full of uneducated racists (not many countries aren't) there are 2 million in the middle that have had time to consider, worked out that we may actually need immigration, the EU does actually deliver stuff etc,.

Combined with a few of the older voters now being dead and younger voters now at voting age (if they can be bothered to turn out)


 
Posted : 18/11/2018 8:30 am
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Sounds like Raab has had a go at establishing a stab in the back myth. It seems I was being too kind categorising him as a mere prat.

He’s citing a ‘lack of resolve’. This from the man who always looked like he’d just shat and pissed himself when being in a room with Barnier for more than thirty seconds.

Arse

Hole


 
Posted : 18/11/2018 8:37 am
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Too

Much

Dunning

Kruger


 
Posted : 18/11/2018 8:41 am
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