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He is trying to go a bit trumpy
He is - because more than anything else, Boris wants power. Trump has power and maintains it in a way which appeals to Boris, through bluster and noise.
Saw a tweet this morning from the Attorney General of Anguilla accompanying a photo of him with the ex-foreign secretary.
"Meeting the worst Foreign Secretary we’ve ever had amongst the destruction of Hurricane Irma in Anguilla. Disinterested and out of his depth he cared nothing for our situation. Good riddance".
Polly Toynbee in this months Guardian pointing out why Boris, Mogg and chums are all really kicking off. Which they seem uncharacteristically shy in vocalising...
They want what they've always wanted.... a 'No Deal Hard' Brexit.
Leaving them free to use the chaos theyve deliberately created to do what they've yearned of for decades - the establishment of the UK as a dystopian, regulation and tariff free neoliberal fantasy island, facilitating a race to the bottom on workers rights, wages, and environmental protection, while the tax exempt, off-shored rich (them and their mates) get unfeasibly richer.
And they genuinely couldn't give a flying **** about the (little peoples) lives they wreck in the process
The posh boys who never had to clean up after themselves as children are abandoning ship as they have no idea what tidying up is!
“Meeting the worst Foreign Secretary we’ve ever had amongst the destruction of Hurricane Irma in Anguilla. Disinterested and out of his depth he cared nothing for our situation. Good riddance”.
Love the tweet, except being "Disinterested" is an overwhelmingly good thing IMHO. You'd think a QC would know that.
so many in the thick of it gifs I could post about this but they are all sweary
bring back Malcolm Tucker
While the Tory wet dream is about free trade, a cutback state and few regulations, they will have to sell it to voters who are likely to throw their toys out of the pram if the economy tanks in the short term. If the Conservatives really do **** business, then they've lost the next election and probably the one after that.
has anyone poste dthis mightily amusing description of David Davis
how the fk Maybot didnt eject this charlatan a year ago I have no idea
Boris is done. Whilst the public accept that politicians often say things that don't happen or they don't mean, and change position, actions speak louder than words. THE defining moment for Boris was his impromptu visit to Afghanistan rather than resign and vote against LHR third runway. Running away in the height of battle used to be rewarded with the firing squad.
That and the bikes.
It's mid-morning, do we still have a government?
Gove has apparently cancelled a scheduled press conference - is he just waiting for the photographer to arrive before signing his resignation letter?
Boris is done. Whilst the public accept that politicians often say things that don’t happen or they don’t mean, and change position, actions speak louder than words. THE defining moment for Boris was his impromptu visit to Afghanistan rather than resign and vote against LHR third runway. Running away in the height of battle used to be rewarded with the firing squad.
Agree with all of this. In addition Boris is the Tory Corbyn, loved by the grass roots party, hated by the parliamentary party. There is no way the MPs will allow him to lead the party, they've seen exactly how it turns out on the other side of the house.
sorry link to Davis's Vision
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/david-davis-brexit-dominic-raab-theresa-may-a8438346.html
I'd laugh, but this worries me even more than us just leaving without a deal. The whole thing is going decidedly 1930's, people phoning in saying they will never vote again etc. May is creating the conditions needed (by not explaining and admitting to the electorate that we need a soft Brexit) for a stab in the back myth to be created.
This is all going to end very, very badly.
March 2019 - Soft Brexit, economy still tanks, brexiters blame remainers, remainers blame brexiters.
April 2019 - Government falls, election called. Corbyn wins tiny majority. Economy tanks further.
April 2019 - April 2020 - Corbyns government have failed to pass any legislation in a minority government due to Labour rebels. Scotts get Indy ref 2, vote to leave.
May 2019 - Corbyns government falls, Labour party split into two parties, Conservatives also split into two parties.
2020 - Queen dies, chaos ensues.
2021 - Fascists?
When it comes to Johnson, Theresa put paid to his leadership ambitions by giving him an actual proper responsible job. Thus exposing the nation to the gap between his perceived abilities (in his head) and the reality. She must have had a little s**** to herself with each fresh example of bungling incompetence, each crass, boorish inappropriate remark and eye-rolling newspaper headline.
The Tory grass roots love him. Proof of their senility, if ever it were needed. But the only get to vote on the candidates chosen for them by their MP's, and as has already been pointed out, most of them absolutely despise him!
We are now in the ludicrous position of asserting that we must accept huge amounts of precisely such EU law, without changing an iota, because it is essential for our economic health
From BoJo's resignation letter.
Cast iron evidence that the Brexit lunatic fringe are willing to sabotage the economy purely in the name of sovereignty.
They don't want a deal. They want hard Brexit. They don't care about the damage. People need to wake the **** up about this
@raybanwomble, i think your being optimistic.
Late March 2019, Brexit.
Mid April 2019, Ports start to collapse unable to process traffic, food and fuel start to run low, rationing considered.
Late April, employers start major layoffs as no point paying staff to do nothing..
very late April, unpaid wages, lack of food, Rioting starts to break out, lack of police numbers and troops are deployed on streets.
Emergency declared. elections suspended etc.
Realistically there is no way any form of Brexit can be in place by March, there is no capability of building any infrastructure, or implementing any systems on that sort of time scale. Time for politicians to start to come clean, and time for the media to start asking questions.
Mid April 2019, Ports start to collapse unable to process traffic, food and fuel start to run low, rationing considered.
The EU already have a plan to keep food coming into the UK for at least three months… because they have carried out some actual practical planning for a no deal exit… they have taken the UK government on their word… they will seek to minimise the chaos… meanwhile… the UK gov is doing what exactly…? Oh, and the EU have cancelled the summer break for those involved in Brexit negotiations and preparation… because time is running out… meanwhile… the UK gov is doing what exactly…?
Time for politicians to start to come clean, and time for the media to start asking questions.
But it won't happen.
It was blindingly obvious by about noon on June 24th 2016 that a Brexit that appeases the loony brexiteers simply cannot happen. Or it can, but the country is ruined as a result.
Economic prosperity (well, non-implosion at least) and Hard Brexit / No Deal are incompatible.
Then you get to the wreckers, who really actively want to harm the economy so that their will can be done in a race to the bottom with the rest of the globe. These are the real bad guys and need to see some consequences of their actions.
If May pulls off her soft Brexit, itll be fine, growth will keep kicking along the bottom, local services, police, NHS etc will just keep being slowly strangled
Tories will only survive next GE depending on whatever version of FOM they get from the EU & how they can spin it with the press, even then if brexies push back hard enough might be enough to split Tory vote & let corbyn in.
The EU already have a plan to keep food coming into the UK for at least three months…
The EU can make the plans to ensure food can get on the boats, but implementation of supplies in the UK? Rationing, shops etc. that comes down to WM, and i have NO confidence in that side of the equation working.
An Gorta Mór the UK government was happy to see millions of UK citizens die because of ideology, the attitude hasn't changed.
If May pulls off her soft Brexit, itll be fine, growth will keep kicking along the bottom, local services, police, NHS etc will just keep being slowly strangled
It's still going to contract quite significantly with a soft Brexit - and that will help fuel a betrayal myth pedalled by the brexiters.
It's a zero sum game now.
I do fear that the Remain groups are losing the referendum all over again.
I thought that with the Soros money there would be big bill boards and newspaper ads in the hate press spelling out exactly what Brexit will cost.
We have the big march but that really gets little coverage.
I do however seem to get lots of emails to go to seminars where like minded people can agree with each other and then a plea for some money.
I want to see an effort to counter the media propoganda and a real attempt to educate Joe public.
We can't lose again.
Late March 2019, Brexit.
Mid April 2019, Ports start to collapse unable to process traffic, food and fuel start to run low, rationing considered.
Late April, employers start major layoffs as no point paying staff to do nothing..
very late April, unpaid wages, lack of food, Rioting starts to break out, lack of police numbers and troops are deployed on streets.
June, Prime Minister Rees-Mogg introduces the Eat The Poor 2019 bill.
It’s still going to contract quite significantly with a soft Brexit – and that will help fuel a betrayal myth pedalled by the brexiters.
The brexiteers are still think they are debating in the Oxford Union, that they are somehow divorced from events. I think the delusions might start to catch up with them soon, question is before or after the damage is done.
I do fear that the Remain groups are losing the referendum all over again.
It's crazy, isn't it. Before the referendum we had a couple of months to fail to get our shit together. Now we've had two years to fail to get our shit together whilst spending half of the time rolling our eyes about how the government has failed to get its shit together in the last two years.
What's that adage about doing the same thing and expecting a different result?
It’s still going to contract quite significantly with a soft Brexit – and that will help fuel a betrayal myth pedalled by the brexiters.
And I've seen this movie before. It'll all be our fault for not getting behind them and supporting brexit. (Whilst, y'know, shutting up and getting over it.)
And I’ve seen this movie before. It’ll all be our fault for not getting behind them and supporting brexit. (Whilst, y’know, shutting up and getting over it.)
Jews have seen it all before as well. Remember that "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was a racist satirical joke/hoax internally circulated amongst anti-Semites until someone decided that it was to be taken seriously. A 1930s 4chan Pepe the Frog meme, if you will, that went serious.
The fake news stupidity has absolutely happened before.
-> IF <-
it was to go to another vote, on the basis that it isn't the ultra-right brexit that the true leavers want, and the remainers obviously still don't really want Brexit again,
-> AND <-
it was another binary question
surely the leavers would be called at every turn on their plan / would have to lay out exactly what type of brexit they want and the implications thereof. And how many of the 17.8M (who are still alive!) would still vote Out on that basis. Surely Leave realise that?
I'm not convinced yet that this isn't all going to end up in BINO
Mrmo
The damage is already happening
Just caught five minutes of Radio 2, Ed Milliband standing in for Vine. He was interviewing Neil Kinnock, who was talking a vast amount of sense and warning that a hard brexit would be "cataclysmic."
Thanks Neil. Next, we'll hear from Bob from Buckinghamshire. "Well, I think we all need to get behind Theresa May and give her our support..."
Give me strength.
how many of the 17.8M
17.4M.
I’m not convinced yet that this isn’t all going to end up in BINO
IMHO that was never realistically on the table, won't happen. It'll be hard brexit or a u-turn to remain.
Gods help us all.
Mrmo
The damage is already happening
I know, i have received a few comments, based on having an Irish name. Agencies have gone, and bluntly aren't coming back. Businesses have started to migrate activities, England has basically erected big signs, stating f*** off.
The damage can be fixed but it will take decades if brexit is stopped now, longer if it isn't.
It was blindingly obvious by about noon on June 24th 2016 that a Brexit that appeases the loony brexiteers simply cannot happen.
+1. I've just been sitting back waiting for everyone else to catch up on this.
I think it's becoming pretty clear that a no deal hard brexit is a very unlikely possibility. There is no majority in the commons for it, there is no majority in the tory party for it, and more than anything else, big business stands to lose billions from it. If there's one thing I know about this damn country, it's that the money-men always get their way irregardless of referendums, elections, or a tiny few etonian idiots fantasising about the 19th century. Brexit will still happen, but it'll be the bare minimum that they can justify to the electorate. The people were stupid enough to vote for it in the first place, they'll be stupid enough to swallow whatever version of it is fed to them.
According to Lord Adonis, the Tory Brexiteers are warning that the party could indeed split over this.
Forget seeing England win the World Cup, if this happens I probably won't be sober again for some time.
*disclaimer - other political viewpoints are available.
Neil Kinnock, who was talking a vast amount of sense and warning that a hard brexit would be “cataclysmic.”
If you and your family had taken the money out of Europe that the Kinnocks have then you would think it a disaster 🙂
According to Lord Adonis, the Tory Brexiteers are warning that the party could indeed split over this.
As with pretty much everything they threaten, they won't actually do a bloody thing. They're absolutely brilliant at bluff and bluster and generating front page headlines for the Daily Express, but as an actual political force they're an irrelevant antiquated joke.
Its time they were treated as such, told to STFU and put back in their box
And if they want to split the Tory party? Well... that'd be an awful shame, wouldn't it? I can see plenty of people shedding tears over that outcome!
to be fair, it's going as well as can be expected.
And so it starts again....
Two tory vice chairs (of the party) now quit. Both cite the Ni backstop as a main issue saying May should not have agreed to it.
How deluded are they? If May had not agreed then there would have been no agreement on transition
Interesting reading the comments made about Lord Carrington (the Foreign Secretary that resigned over the Falklands) following his death. I wonder how many were veiled barbs to Johnson...
" He never fell beneath the dignity of his office.."
"....recalled his decision to resign over the Falklands invasion, adding that 'his only concern was to put his country before himself' ".
I think it’s becoming pretty clear that a no deal hard brexit is a very unlikely possibility.
You do know hard brexit and no deal brexit are very, very different things? May's plan is not far off hard Brexit....soft Brexit would see us in EFTA, single market etc
I think it’s becoming pretty clear that a no deal hard brexit is a very unlikely possibility.
Well unless some people get a move on and actually start to negotiate there is nothing on the table to make a deal.
It must be agreed by Uk parliament and ready for eu negotiators to present to the respective state governments for them to debate, amend, reject or approve before October.
Summer recess is 24th July to 4th September. Not a chance this is pushed through parliament before end of July
The scary thing for me is every single comment on every new website is just name calling. Remoaners this or what ever the Brexit side is called. There is absolutely no chance of any resolution or democratic process if your entire point of view is based on name calling.
Is there any discussion of the issues such as the uk’s entire industrial and service sector strategy as far as I can tell is/was to attract foreign investment so we can sell cheaply, easily to Europe.
What are these trade deals we are going to make with the rest of the world and which of the Uk’s industries are going to benefit from them and how are they going to be better than the ones we can make through the eu?
The most coherent argument is that we want a sovereign parliament without deferring to an external power. I thought all trade deals were like that? You sign up for common rules and the other countries, companies can take you to court/overrule local laws if they break the external agreement.
Maria Caulfield and Ben Bradley....
Just to say we dont give a *
I hope you * off to being an unpaid bitch for Jacob Rees Mogg
I doubt you have two ounces of shit for brains between the pair of you.
Sorry STW but they are a pair of self serving ****s
Ben Bradley the night before the Chequers 'agreement' meeting
Whilst everyone gets very excited about Chequers tomorrow, truth is PM has been consistent with her wishlist from day one - control of money, borders and laws. We should support her, get behind her and deliver precisely those things!
What a ****, and what an idiot - does he think these things just disappear once they go below the bottom of the page?
What a ****
Correct.
and what an idiot
More doubtful. He acts like an idiot, but in reality I reckon he just doesn’t give a shit, the cynical bastard.
Barnier now saying 80% of Brexit deal is now agreed.
David Davis is only out of the job for a day and that much progress is made.
Barnier’s comments look politically timed.
Barnier’s comments look politically timed.
Of course they are,
the last 20% is full freedom of movement 😂 - and we'll be where project fear becomes project truth
Hm. May comes up with a compromise, then enforces it in the cabinet leading to the arch-brexiteers quitting. Then, once they are gone she hopes the EU will reject it leading to a soft a Brexit as possible...
Possible, but not sure that's what she's planning.
England have also won 80% of the World Cup.
And we’ll be done over in the final by the continentals in both competitions 😀
80% of the deal is agreed. They just need to iron out the last few kinks between the 27 and then tell us what deal we are getting...
And the story keeps on unraveling....
Well unless some people get a move on and actually start to negotiate there is nothing on the table to make a deal.
I suspect it's all been agreed already informally in the backrooms between civil servants in London and Brussels. The politicians have the job of selling it. I strongly suspect everything we are seeing now is theatre which has been planned to prepare the public for the coming fudge. The nutters are right on one thing, this will be brexit in name only, but there's not a lot they can do about it.
Well the sun are reporting that the government are stock piling processed food, going swimmingly then.
At least we will get rationing back which will be a nice sentimental journey for most of the brexiters and a reminder of the 1950's that they crave
Mmm, powdered egg.
Amazing how the sun can spin that story to make the government look prudent.
Don't worry though it's just project fear when you read the comments.
When you step away from stw and venture into the rest of this country it just makes me want to leave.
and you still have people saying, we survived rationing before, it is worth it!
and you still have people saying, we survived rationing before, it is worth it!
Well so long as we fatten them up first they can make the ultimate sacrifice to see us through to the promised land.
"How do we know that Oates went out for this legendary walk? From the only surviving document: Scott's diary. And he's hardly likely to have written down, "February the First, bludgeoned Oates to death while he slept, then scoffed him along with the last packet of instant mash." How's that going to look when he gets rescued, eh? No, much better to say, "Oates made the supreme sacrifice", while you're dabbing up his gravy with the last piece of crusty bread." Rimmer concludes, "If that'd been me, I'd've stayed in the tent, whacked Scott over the head with a frozen husky, and then eaten him."
During the credit crunch they interviewed a lady whose husband worked at the Honda factory.
She was lamenting that since they cut her husband's hours they've had to reduce their Sky package.
Some people are in for a rude awakening .
There was some loon on Five Live the other day who when told it might take 3 decades to recover from the economic fallout of a hard Brexit said that that was still a price worth paying
Thats the level of logic and intellect you're dealing with in the Leave camp
Reading the Guardian today, it appears that Davis only spent 4 hours with Barnier this year as May had made sure that he's absolutely nowhere near Brussels while her chief civil servant Olly Robbins gets on with the actual business.
A quick google tells me that he is despised as a full on Enemy of the People/Traitor/Saboteur by the usual hysterical right wing headbangers, so maybe theres hope yet?
This is heading towards one of those scenario's in which i start to wonder how long to leave it before buying a plane ticket and whether my employer would be happy for me to relocate to head office in Dublin (i am a dual national so it is an option)
However hard brexit is simply not an option, in a sane world,. question is whether we are in a sane world? The fallout would break the UK.
unrelated, is anyone else having the thread opening on the last but one page when you post?
YES!!!
and it's getting annoying
I think this forum is based on brexit.
The people in charge telling us its better but the people it actually affects getting a bum deal.
Some of the worst case scenarios really do worry me, I'm sure I'll be "fine" but I do wonder if this is the country I want my kid to grow up in.
We should make all European owned shops have jEuden written on their windows so we know which ones to smash up after the football.
Meanwhile...
.
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Some of the worst case scenarios really do worry me, I’m sure I’ll be “fine” but I do wonder if this is the country I want my kid to grow up in.
I know we've had 'words' in the past (and that it was me that was doing 99% of the needling), but I wholeheartedly agree with that - I've got good qualifications, a good job, pretty good skills and a reasonable CV and 'back catalogue' of people and places that I have done a pretty good job for. But it's my kids that worry me - I think they'll do pretty well at school (and uni if they want), but to what end and in what kind of country? A country that allows hate to rule as it fragments and the politics of 'us' and 'them' becomes ever more vicious? One sure thing, economic hardship (which any form of Brexit WILL cause) is almost certain to lead to more polarisation and more nastiness........
Danny, I think the only thing that really can be said about brexit is that it was against the status quo, but any form isn't going to solve any of the issues.
Danny, I think the only thing that really can be said about brexit is that it was against the status quo, but any form isn’t going to solve any of the issues.
There’s lots that can be said about Brexit, but if you’re being honest, ALL of it is derogatory, however, as you can’t polish a turd.
The whole thing still bemuses me. Either the ‘masses’ who voted for it did it genuinely thinking they’d be better off - in which case, they were very much mistaken.
Or it was a kind of scorched earth attitude. If we can’t have what we regard as our slice of the pie, then no one else can. But the fat bastards always get their pie, it will just be that there will be less than crumbs left for everyone else. People who feel they haven’t got enough now will get less. People who were content before, in the middle, will get less. The rich will still get and keep their slice, and in terms of disparity the gap will certainly widen.
Lashing out at the whole country because you can only choose one out of Sky TV, scratchcards and Stella without having to work a bit hard really doesn’t help anyone, least of all themselves.
But this thread was what made me make my New Year resolution never to read or post on the political threads on here again. I made it to July, but the Chequers farce and Johnson’s disgraceful actions (resigning as Foreign Secretary just as a UK National has been killed by an illegal weapon of mass destruction most likely as a result of a sovereign nation will do for starters) just made me feel I had to. But now I’m getting all angry again, so that’s it for me.
Bye.
@dannyh (if you're still there) exactly my thoughts on you're first post, it's one of the reasons I'm keen for my boy to learn French early on (one of his good school mates is French), a better understanding of foreign language and culture than me should give him more options than I've had... On your second post about why people voted, I've no idea. It won't be as bad as remain think but it'll not be as good as leave think however leave will spin that it'd have been better if they'd have got their 100% breakaway so we'll still have a split society blaming each other.
The one thing I will agree on is that Brexit has divided the country.
In past elections whether the Torys won or Labour won there was a bit of griping by those that voted in the minority ... then a couple weeks later it was back as usual to business.
But the nastiness of Brexit by those who were on the losing side has been sustained and I fear it has done lasting damage. The numb from the neck up Remainers have been told from the day they lost that they are superior and more entitled than those in the majority ... I really don`t see them coming to what little senses they may have previously had.
As many predicted - Brexit will not be the Brexit people voted for. And that will only see the country fall further to the right as those dis-grunted Leave voters and the Loony Remainers choose parties with extreme policies.
Nastiness from Remainers ? You must have missed à few Daily Mail headlines.
You won't see this on the BBC...
A live debate including Gina Miller and Jacob Mogg.