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As it stands can I still buy my chocolates from Belgium at the same price?
Only if we beat them in the final
If Sweden win will will have to take the krona as our currency?
it is nonsense because the 4 freedoms are not negociable .
As Chris says
It's still attempting to cherry pick and split the four freedoms. There is no recognition of the position of the eu
It's not even a starting point. There is nothing for the eu to work with
at least the Brexiters are going in full meltdown .
It would require huge wide ranging trade agreements that have no parallel anywhere and would need the founding treaties of the eu to be altered
it is nonsense because the 4 freedoms are not negociable .
This. Two years of negotiating with itself and the torys come up with this. What's even more laughable is it doesn't include services.
We are a service based economy.
Nah the EU are pragmatic enough to bend the rules a bit, ala Switzerland & Norway.
This is either a starting point & we'll keep making concessions to get a services deal.
Brexies will raise a stink, but they've got nothing better
Or we'll just crash out with no deal..... no po me is stupid enough to agree that tho so..... #peoplesvote
Oh, it's frothy. Complete Gammon-shart.
They skipped the chapter about Suez when they studied history.
Nice purple ie UKIP blouse she had on, deliberate I'm sure.
Even if this made sense, and even if EU accepted it, it only covers goods....which only makes up 20% of our economy (or is it 20% of uur trade with Europe....whatever...it's bad)
And why are the press calling it soft brexit...it isn't cos it ends freedom of movement
Nah the EU are pragmatic enough to bend the rules a bit, ala Switzerland & Norway.
Norway and Switzerland still have to accept freedom of movement. Not only that, but they also have borders with the EU.
Norwegian lessons for all then?
Anyone seen the supporting presentation video for this .
A bit shite doesn’t really do it justice.
It’s still attempting to cherry pick and split the four freedoms. There is no recognition of the position of the eu
It's not suggesting bilateral freedom of movement though is it? It's not an EU freedom if it's just letting others in. We just won't be able to go the other way..? I can't see anything relating to this in the statement.
Well what a surprise. Nobody resigned.
I expect this will be the beginning of a succession of quiet climb downs and backtracks until we end up back where we were but with no say over anything.
so this Taking Back Control lark has all gone brilliantly
To be fair to May she’s played a blinder by announcing all this today, while the Gammons are busy attaching their St George’s cross flags to their cars and getting the Carling in
We now know exactly where Fox, Johnson and Davis actually stand: totally unprincipled.
Well what a surprise. Nobody resigned.
The Tories have a long and proud history of not having the guts to say something to their leader's face, but heading off and almost immediately sticking the knife in. Boris gets a telling off, which he takes meekly, then heads off to bravely write a few thousand words for the Telegraph.
I would be unsurprised to see this feeble government still taking pleasure in ripping itself apart this time next week or month rather than getting on with the job.
I think we all knew that all along. Especially the self-serving mop!
She should have called their bluff a long time ago. But then i’m very glad she finally has. This is still a shit sandwich but at least it’s not a foot long sub with extra topping
She should have called their bluff a long time ago.
I wonder if she took in a life-size cardboard cut out of Jeremy Corbyn just hammer home to the nutters just what the results of their silly little rebellion would be? Anyway yes, the timing is perfect. All the knuckledraggers have directed their jingoism towards a sport they think we own. Although I do fear that should Harry Kane & Co win the most underserved world cup in history, all the small minded rule britannia rubbish will be amplified beyond all reason.
She has played an absolute blinder.
She has, but I cannot believe it was intentional
She has played an absolute blinder.
Chateau!
I’m not sure she did thou, they had to have something to take to the eu or it was game over.
Couldn’t kick the can up the road any further and sacrificing the big manufacturing businesses probably wouldn’t fly.
They’ve ve pissed away the time thou still more fun ahead.
oh yeah an that NI thing bit tricky that.
She has played an absolute blinder.
Has she?
Surely the EU will reject it. Essentially it's separating the four freedoms. They've been quite clear that can't happen.
Which begs the question, then what?
The government has (finally) decided that it wants the least-worst brexit. The EU will surely say "non" for reasons as Bob suggests (and the Irish elephant in the room). Where do we go from here? Where can we go from here?
Is it too much to hope that this a precursor to a climb-down? They've demonstrated that they've tried to make it work (for some value of, at least) and it's just not feasible. Let's call the whole thing off and come up with something else?
Essentially it’s separating the four freedoms.
What are you reading that suggests this? I've only seen the statement.
Would Enola have discretely run this past Barnier beforehand?
I look forward to Johnson’s words of support.
How many dodgy photos were shown to various ministers at chequers?
The government has (finally) decided that it wants the least-worst brexit.
But it isn't the least worst....apart from no deal, it's about as bad as it can be...no FOM, no customs union, no single market, nothing for services. It's utterly insane
Where do we go from here? Where can we go from here?
This is gives the starting point for a “new” framework. Basically Norway but with the language re-written.
now to get there is the issue. It will all take a fantastic amount of time but this is not an issue if there is a renewable transition and the UK covers the costs of the negotiations.
For me it just opened the door to allow an almighty kick of the can (years this time). If it can be agreed in principle to extend transition and we are bino then in a few months the cull of the Brexiteers will happen from the front bench (and I imagine the party) leaving just JRM and s few loons at the back.
Then all there needs to be is a limited skirmish or credit blip for it to be pushed to the back burner and made future governments problem.
She has played an absolute blinder.
Let's see if I can explain that better.
She appointed the leading three (and later four) Brexiteers to the cabinet and let them try to come up with some coherent proposals, knowing full well that they would fail - partly because she knew it was always impossible, and partly because she had their measure and knew how clueless they all were.
She gave them 16 months to play their little games, putting up with their tantrums and outbursts, and letting Davis snooze away the entire time...until we had reached a point where the "no deal" scenario was no longer possible. We don't have the physical infrastructure in place at Dover. We haven't hired thousands of customs officials to collect all those tariffs. We don't have any kind of coherent plan for the NI border.
Then she sprung her trap, knowing that they had exhausted themselves fighting with each other, knowing that they were all ultimately too vain and spineless to turn against her, and cleverly engineering her trap so that they couldn't communicate with the outside world where there might have been some people with some spine.
Gove, Johnson, Fox and Davis have all cheerfully walked up onto the scaffold and put their heads through the nooses she has prepared for them, grinning amiably.
After this, none of them will be trusted ever again by either side - the Brexiteers in the cabinet are finished as politicians.
The ones outside she still has to deal with (the JRMs of this world) but JRM himself seems strangely reluctant to do anything that might land him with a cabinet post; can't think why. That leaves the remaining leavers, but they are all small fry who, I suspect, will mostly step into line once they realise their choices are very limited.
As a bonus she can probably point out that she's now offering the UK a softer Brexit than Corbyn, leaving the Labour party out in the cold, with Corbyn having alienated all the Remain Labour members (about 80% of them support remain), meaning the Tories have a good chance at winning the next election. They don't need to be perfect, they just need to appear less insane than Labour.
I have to say I'm impressed with how skilfully she has done this. An absolute masterclass.
I have to say I’m impressed with how skilfully she has done this. An absolute masterclass.
Well you are giving her credit for a lot there.....
Lets see if it washes with the EU.
You think it is finished ? No more tantrums ?
I am guessing the Sunday papers will be full of Brexit means Brexit etc...
@molgrip, no freedom of movement or services. Although there is something about fom but not exactly clear yet.
i am a bit surprised at the whole optism after friday.
It is not over yet. Scotland will have a say too.
she’s now offering the UK a softer Brexit than Corbyn
In what way? This NOT soft Brexit!
I have to say I’m impressed with how skilfully she has done this. An absolute masterclass.
Come off it. All she's ever had to do is play the Corbyn card. The only thing rightwing tories fear more than the EU is Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell rolling back the decades and creating a newly unionised workforce, renationalised infrastructure and an all-powerful public sector. If the tories go through with a hard brexit they will lose the support of big business, which is the only thing that keeps them going. Hard brexit will not only have them out of government, it could finish them as a party.
May's managed to batter... ... sorry unite her sack full of rats into a position that's still untenable to the EU, she's not even begun negotiating with the actual situation which is far more faceted.
Not really management masterclass is it?
Come off it. All she’s ever had to do is play the Corbyn card.
I think she is hoping for a double bill and a photo Op with Gareth and Jules
I have to say I’m impressed with how skilfully she has done this. An absolute masterclass.
Well, she appears to have deluded at least one poor sod
Writing to Tory MPs, she said: “During the EU referendum campaign collective responsibility on EU policy was temporarily suspended. As we developed our policy on Brexit I have allowed cabinet colleagues to express their individual views.
Agreement on this proposal marks the point where that is no longer the case and collective responsibility is now fully restored.”
I didn't realise that everything that happened up until now was part of the plan.
I really don't understand this facet of our "democracy."
If individual MPs aren't allowed to "express their individual views" then what's their purpose? Might as well sack the lot and just leave Kaiser May in charge of everything.
In other news,
Spotted on Facebook's Leave.EU page: One bloke suggesting taking the cabinet to court and that all 17.4 million Leave voters put in a quid to 'pay for a good barista'. 😂 That'll be some damn fine coffee.
PMSL 😂😂😂😂
Applauds Cougar 🙂 🙂 🙂
I really don’t understand this facet of our “democracy.”
If individual MPs aren’t allowed to “express their individual views” then what’s their purpose? Might as well sack the lot and just leave Kaiser May in charge of everything.
I've often wondered this myself, if MPs can't vote in the commons in good faith, AKA for fear of losing thier jobs, is it really democratic?
Maybe commons votes should be like public votes, remove the whip, vote how you see best.
If you're an MP then you were allegedly made as such to make decisions in good faith as opposed to being whipped into some retarded version of a party line.
I was always in favour of FPTP because I thought it made MPs answerable to their constituents rather than the party. Turns out most people think they're voting for a PM rather than their own MP. MPs generally don't get held to account for their own voting records by the electorate.
Most people do not know who their MP is so vote for a political party based on what they believe the policies might be (few will have read the manifesto) or on which leader looked best on TV...
Yes minister is still as relevant today as it ever was
The leave.eu Facebook page is rather eye opening.
A number on there advocating revolution, also suggesting that we don't need big business too.
Definitely a lot of swivel eyed loons on there
A number on there advocating revolution
A threat to modern swiveleyesation?
It's also all over Facebook that Jacob Reese-Mogg is revolting.
There's a joke here somewhere but I can't quite put my finger on it...
The Gammons are going apeshit. My local mp is making muttering of betrayal and talking about opposing it.
My local mp is making muttering of betrayal and talking about opposing it.
It would be funny as hell if, by opposing the deal, arch Brexiteers ended up voting with the remainers in opposing the deal and it ended up stopping Brexit.
Well he's not the sharpest tool in the box so entirely possible.
What are you reading that suggests this? I’ve only seen the statement.
The four freedoms are goods, services, capital and people
With this deal the Tories have proposed they're at best removing people from that list, although I see today may has not ruled out a special deal for EU citizens...
Either way, last nights "deal" definitely removed people and in all likelihood services. It's farcical at best and down right stupidity at worst.
The EU must reject it
My local mp is making muttering of betrayal and talking about opposing it.
If the last two years have taught us anything, it's that MPs who mutter about things don't actually act, even when they actually say they will take a stand, they don't.
The phrase 'talk is cheap' has never been more true.
This NOT soft Brexit!
Seems a bit floppy to me.
Boris just can’t help himself, she has put her cards on the table let’s see what the swivel eyed loons come up with.
What are are the odds on Europe saying “don’t be silly”
I thought that our democratically elected leaders had made a decision ,the papers were signed and off we go.
As we have been told so often it was time to all unite behind May and crack on with Brexit.
Apparently not!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs/the_papers
Seems a bit floppy to me.
Talking off Russia, seems evidence of their collusion in supporting the brexit campaign is growing.
Of course our proud patriots seem happy to ignore the fact they are Russian stooges.
Just watched Gove on Marr and its fairly obvious that he and all the other brexiteers dont have the courage of their convictions.
Surely if May doesn't fire BJ now then any shred of authority she had, which admittedly was almost none, will be gone and she really will be finished?
Or, like the worst Carry On film ever, will she keep going?
Boris wants to be PM that's his only objective. She wont sack him as it gives him a free run at challenging her.
Containment.
She’s finished , she might as well have some fun before she goes.
Sack em all.
collusion
Could you define collusion and tell us what is wrong/illegal about it please?
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy in order to deceive others - collusion
It seems this thread and the country in general are obsessed with Tory internal politics. None of that matters now. We are on a direct path to a no deal Brexit.
When this comes to pass, there are facets of the EU who will be so monumentally angry at the U.K. Governmet for allowing it (by their inability to present a credible alternative) they will be poisoned against us for a generation.
Once the country realises what a disaster Brexit has been and starts asking for the damage to be repaired, we will be powerless to do anything about it.
As i have said before the people who voted for this debacle need to feel the pain, i accept that others who didnt vote for it will suffer but there needs to be a big reset.
Just watched Gove on Marr and its fairly obvious that he and all the other brexiteers dont have the courage of their convictions.
Gove and Johnston are not conviction politicians, opportunists & bandwagoneering shits the pair of 'em (Boris scarpered to the other side of the world when his convictions were tested ****ing spineless coward). They saw brexit as a backdoor into no 10 and **** the consequences.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1015930389934886913
Looks like the adults are really losing control now and starting a leadership campaign.
Could you define collusion and tell us what is wrong/illegal about it please?
Can you explain why you are not concerned about the motives of a foreign power that has chosen to interfere with votes? Wouldn't it be better if they had been open about it?
On R5 this morning John redwood was calmly explaining how trade would just work on a no deal brexit because well it would and he would know.
Another fantasist still thought there would be cash left over for the nhs. No details no total costs etc.
Anyway cash isn't a problem they just found 5 million to police trumps visit.
Just as well they spent all that time making sure all the cabinet agreed on the deal though isn't it.
Can you explain why you are not concerned about the motives of a foreign power that has chosen to interfere with votes? Wouldn’t it be better if they had been open about it?
If you go back, you’ll see that rather than saying I wasn’t concerned about it, I actually asked for a definition of “collusion” and what was wrong/illegal about it.
However, it’s interesting that we do indeed now have proven example of a foreign government interfering in the Brexit vote, isn’t it?
The fact that this was at the request of the leader of the remain campaign, the Prime Minister, was denied at the time, therefore quite clearly fitting the definition above of:
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy in order to deceive others – collusion
I presume that your ‘concern’ means that you will openly criticise this “collusion” and demand criminal charges are brought against those responsible?
So the UK government asked somebody to say something, right. I think we are all good with that. What did the Russian government want, how much did they pay, who did they pay it to and what was asked in return.
So the UK government asked somebody to say something, right.
No, they asked <span style="text-decoration: underline;">a foreign government</span> to say it, and kept it secret.
the fact that the remain campaign and US government weren’t open about it being at Cameron’s request means you are hoist on your own petard over any Russian collusion accusations.
means you are hoist on your own petard over any Russian collusion accusations.
Id like to see true legal precedent there you know just in case it ends up in court.
Now that it's out in the open want to know what the Russians wanted or are you happy being putins little play thing?
the fact that the remain campaign and US government weren’t open about it being at Cameron’s request means you are hoist on your own petard over any Russian collusion accusations.
Spot on. Asking another country's leader to make a statement is totally the same as another country's leader pumping money into a campaign and manipulating the electorate.
manipulating the electorate.
Spoken like a true sore loser. You were more than happy to accept dirty tricks as long as you won, it’s only when you lost that you cried foul.
I'm not happy to accept "dirty tricks" on either side of the campaign. But you just keep on making shit up if it makes you feel better.
I guess he really doesn't want to know what was going on then