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What do you expect when you have 4.5 million extra people move into the country?
Well. Considering how many of them are doctors it looks like a massive screw up and underfunding exercise by the government, given most of the people who moved here pay tax and contribute to the economy. That and most are younger and healthier than the old people who are literally draining the NHS funds.
Come on.ninfan less project fear more explained rational explanations.
How many doctors would half a trillion quid buy?
That a good number of them are doctors and nurses,
Brilliant, so we’ve stolen all the doctors and nurses from developing countries who would really benefit from them, go us!
and that most of them contribute a lot more to society and the economy than the unpleasant filth that seems to pervade a lot of brexiteer circles
yeah, that’s right, you’ve successfully rubbed their noses in diversity, just like you promised you would. Well done. Good thing that this was without consequences and there was no backlash for you when it came to the Brexit vote or anything...
Best thing is you still think that calling people names and belittling them is goi g win people over to your point of view 🙂
yeah, that’s right, you’ve successfully rubbed their noses in diversity
Yep we all know you struggle with change and things that are a bit different from you, is there a term for it?
Amazing how many people grow up now not seeing colour or religion these days. It's a concept people try and teach them.
What do you expect when you have 4.5 million extra people move into the country?
Most of whom are skilled, and the majority of whom pay tax?
I expect the government to use most of that money for additional planning, infrastructure and health/social resources.
Let us not forget it's the UK government that has failed here. It's not the EU, it's not immigrants, it's not even the working class racists, they just do as they are told, it's purposfull mismanagement to line the already overflowing wallets of the rich capitalist elite who don't pay tax and offshore everything.
Wake up.
What do you expect when you have 4.5 million extra people move into the country?
I expect the extra tax we get from their economic activity to pay for more doctors to be trained and employed.
But that's not what the Tories like to do.
is there a term for it?
Yes, xenophobia. Let’s not sugar coat it.
Best thing is you still think that calling people names and belittling them is goi g win people over to your point of view
Oh no, I’m not trying to change your point of view. You appear to be a well know trollfrom what I can gather, so there wouldn’t really be much point.
Anyway we were told time and time again that the leave vote was nothing to do with immigration
May could have stopped non eu immigration if she was so worried about the numbers.
Amazing how many people grow up now not seeing colour or religion these days. It’s a concept people try and teach them.
Maybe you could concentrate your efforts on trying to teach the people who like planting bombs, blowing themselves up and shooting and stabbing people in the name of religion not to do it?
Anyway we were told time and time again that the leave vote was nothing to do with immigration
May could have stopped non eu immigration if she was so worried about the numbers.
Exactly, this situation was knowingly or unknowingly, the brain child of broken UK politics.
May could have stopped non eu immigration if she was so worried about the numbers.
And who would have been the first in the street jumping up and down and saying it was racist to do that I wonder? 😉
Ninfan you're talking complete rubbish as usual.
The UK has and does have the means to refuse entry in the UK if they are criminals, or have no means of supporting themselves and no return ticket. AKA not tourists or people with jobs or education to go to.
This is a UK government problem. It's the UK government that opened our borders, and they are now trying to blame.. Well anyone they can.
Have we issued a formal apology to all the black, brown, irish and gay people that this country use to blame for all it's problems since the war?
It was the European's fault all along.
And who would have been the first in the street jumping up and down and saying it was racist to do that I wonder?
Tommy Robinson.
And who would have been the first in the street jumping up and down and saying it was racist to do that I wonder?
Please at at least try to make some sense. Do you want immigration reduced or not? And if so, you you still also try to argue that Brexit had nothing to do with immigration?
And who would have been the first in the street jumping up and down and saying it was racist to do that I wonder?
Amazingly not everyone outside the eu is a different race.
And if so, you you still also try to argue that Brexit had nothing to do with immigration?
Do I what, what?
Where?
Brilliant, so we’ve stolen all the doctors and nurses from developing countries who would really benefit from them, go us!
The rest of the EU is in such a dire situation? Who knew?
Have we issued a formal apology to all the black, brown, irish and gay people that this country use to blame for all it’s problems since the war?
Alan Turing was gay, he was only recently pardoned for being gay, despite his very relevant war effort in code cracking.
That just goes to show the hypocrisy.
DrJ, Yes, less developed EU countries are facing a shortage of Doctors and Nursing staff
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26262064
What do you expect when you have 4.5 million extra people move into the country?
As a percentage, there are more immigrants working in the NHS than using it. The higher the net migration into the UK, the lower the load on the NHS. This is basic maths and readily Google-able.
Brilliant, so we’ve stolen all the doctors and nurses from developing countries who would really benefit from them, go us!
They're all foreign, what do you care?
Does anyone know how much it costs to produce a home grown 18 year old?
By that I mean, how much is spent on their education, medical bills, and any other costs incurred by the state having to support these non-productive people. And then, how much does it cost to produce a graduate?
It seems to me that, even if an immigrant has no education past secondary school, they still represent pretty good value for money if they come and start paying taxes immediately. A graduate is a massive bargain.
If we really want to help the economy, maybe we should deport toddlers and only let them back when they're old enough to pay taxes.
It goes without saying we should deport all the over-65s.
Nah ninfan is all about the immigration and foreigners who are now all terrorists too...
So glad kids today can grow up and experience so much more. It might help to produce less racists
Ninfan will say anything to post rationalise his anti-immigration (or more politely, controlled immigration) stance.
I can't say any more, or I'll get another warning, and the post will be deleted. It doesn't need saying anyway, everyone can see through him, I hope.
we need a GE asap and these Tory clown shoes booted out of power
With the current "leadership" in the Labour party, a fresh GE would more than likely give us the current result, or perhaps even an increased Tory majority.
Although obviously Jeremy would have the "symbolic" victory, just like last time.
Must have been a very thin summary note for that runt to rip up.
May now has the chance to show who's boss and put the Brexiteering arseholes in their place....
Only joking - there is no chance of that!
<p>Although obviously Jeremy would have the “symbolic” victory, just like last time.</p>
<p>Well it would give them the chance to sell their vision. A remain Labour stance could be very interesting as the desire for brexit is wavering really.</p>
I guess it's true, the UKs best days are behind us
A remain Labour stance could be very interesting
Won't happen. Neither party will adopt a Remain stance now. Cross/non-party is the only way… that's why, now, a public vote on what happens next is needed … it may not be the right/best way to set our course, but while both main parties are paralysed by the last referendum, it's the only way.
It seems to me that, even if an immigrant has no education past secondary school, they still represent pretty good value for money if they come and start paying taxes immediately. A graduate is a massive bargain.
Yes, immigrants are on average good value to society. Someone looking at it objectively can immediately see this but a racist doesn't want to see it as the fact they are from another country is all that matters. Anyone who is really bothered about immigration has to have an element of racism about them hence Brexiters being labelled racists.
We need a new word for it… those that think that "their country" is damaged by people born in other counties working in it, or helping form shared standards and laws, really don't like the "R" word… understandably.
why does a wee rat like Gove, who’s the Environment Minister, get to rip up anything? I suspect in real life the weedy little creep would struggle to rip up a post it note.
To be fair he is probably right both options would involve extra red tape and probably new tech that is not yet developed...
if only there was a system already used by our trading partners in Europe that we could be part of...
Ninfan will say anything to post rationalise his anti-immigration (or more politely, controlled immigration) stance.
Are you a proponent of having no immigration controls at all?
What do you expect when you have 4.5 million extra people move into the country?
Who are they? Figures please?
Are you a proponent of having no immigration controls at all?
Straw men should definitely be barred from entering the debate.
Are you a proponent of having no immigration controls at all?
We were very happy with the previous arrangements.it brought great benefits to the UK and helped in a lot of areas.
Long term a world without borders should be an aim.
Are you a proponent of having no immigration controls at all?
You really are just trolling, aren't you. No-one has suggested that ever, as well you're aware.
Gods damned edit timing...!
Well you know what to do Cougar....
Are you a proponent of having no immigration controls at all?
We have immigration controls, as do all other countries… that's why, when people call for "controls on immigration", they mean there are currently types of people entering the country that they don't want here…
We have immigration controls, as do all other countries…
We also have the ability to tighten them, and choose not to.
We were very happy with the previous arrangements.
No, “we” weren’t happy with the previous arrangement at all. 48% you may have been, but it turns out that 52% of us weren’t.
Democracy eh? “The people have spoken, the bastards”
No, “we” weren’t happy with the previous arrangement at all
When did they ask that question?
And round we go again… "the vote wasn't about immigration, the vote was all about immigration…"
The people have spoken, the bastards
Ah, no, I know lots of decent people who voted Leave. You on the other hand…
out that 52% of us weren’t.
and you have spoken to all of them?
Seethe Brexidiots running the asylum is going as us remoaniacs predicted 🙂
Patrick Minford was after all the genius behind the poll tax
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1013041031510740998?s=19
No, “we” weren’t happy with the previous arrangement at all.
The vast majority of leave or remain voters have no idea what the “previous arrangement” involved. Not in the slightest. Stop pretending otherwise.
It should never have been put to a public vote. Certainly not in the way it was
Cabinet.
Democracy eh? “The people have spoken, the bastards”
Sure. 52% = "the people," 48% = "yeah, **** those guys." Totally sounds democratic to me.
Yep
Tories still not ready to negotiate with EU as theyve only had 2 years of bitter infighting & thats just not enough
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44668572
Tories still not ready to negotiate with EU as theyve only had 2 years of bitter infighting & thats just not enough
Negotiating is for looser, we are Winners, we will dictate the terms as we have all the cards.*
* Opening line from the 2019 Jam Wars
We also have the ability to tighten them, and choose not to.
It was far easier to just send some vans around demonising them. Thank god the home secretary in charge of that half arsed idea is no longer home secretary.
There was, of course, also the Brexiteers arguing for voting out claiming that other countries would then be shifted up the immigration ladder.
It was far easier to just send some vans around demonising them
to be fair it is much easier but don’t worry the IT system, additional personnel deemed too expensive and poor value for money to monitor relatively small numbers of people can be designed and deployed without any significant cost to tax payers or companies in less than 18 months to manage all people and goods across “soft” borders
but don’t worry the IT system
I have complete faith. You only need to look at the success of the Universal Credit system to be left in no doubt about this.
That reminds me, for some odd reason, I really need to sort out my Irish passport application.
Well we have a superstar who used to work in the home office leading so what could go wrong.
Sad that we have to rely on Meuller to investigate russian interference in our own democracy
We need a new word for it… those that think that “their country” is damaged by people born in other counties working in it, or helping form shared standards and laws, really don’t like the “R” word… understandably.
We have one: xenophobe
Tories still not ready to negotiate with EU as theyve only had 2 years of bitter infighting & thats just not enough
Yep this is truly impressive. Fiddling whilst Rome burns an all that.
Curse those EU lawmakers that have introduced protection for people buying flights and hotels separately from the same provider. How very dare they.
We we can’t even get an upskirting law passed.
What did the eu ever do for us 🙂
Don’t forget how you used to get rippped off on the mobi when abroad that was a great moneymaker.
Tories still not ready to negotiate with EU as theyve only had 2 years of bitter infighting & thats just not enough
Well if they are aligned similarly to the will of the people roughly 50% want to stay in the EU and the same amount want something unspecified but different.
this is going to be unspecified and different so partly fulfilling the mandate...
See Mr Mogg is threatening a "coup" if the brexidiots don't get the brexit they want. I would like one of them to become PM to seal their downfall, Even though it would probably be Moggs nanny instead of him running the show if he attempted it.
There are only 60 or so brexidiot mps, the rest are pretty much remainers, so how are they going to attempt this "coup?" It could back fire on them as they can only play the party unity card so many times.
A sign of desperation perhaps?
Corbyn said he would try to get a general election if there was a bad deal.
What is his definition of a bad deal?
Does anyone know?
Marr summed it up today
65 weeks of talks gone, 6 to go
The Tories havent yet decided amongst themselves what they want from Brexit, so they havent been able to start negotiating with the EU yet!
What is his definition of a bad deal?
Does anyone know?
Does it matter? I think he means he's going to go for it anyway!
What is his definition of a bad deal?
Depends who who you talk to
for mogg if we don’t return to the 1850s it’s a bad deal
for Corbyn if we don’t return to the 1970s it’s a bad deal
for Ninfan if he has not personally chosen who the immigrants allowed in are it is a bad deal 😛
for me if we do not retain free movement of people and goods the way we have now its a bad deal (but not so much for me as I have an EU passport too)
What would demanding a GE do? In 6 weeks the deal is made if there is a GE early next year there may be time to get a new crack squad in place ready to just sign off on whatever has gone before. Now is too late he needed to act 2 years ago
lm pretty sure the EU would extend negotiations for a new government
Maybe they would
trouble is that the “deal” would only be voted on in Westminster and the 27 states after it has been nominally agreed. If the EU 27 all say this is good with us but we turn round and say no this is no good and by the way we are going to fight amongst ourselves for another year how much patience do theyHave?
would it not be that we would move to the fall back position which I also guess needs to be agreed and voted upon?
Corbs doesn't want the 1970s, he wants the late 1940s.
This just needs turning on its head. Try to negotiate a “better” deal, or if negotiations fail we simply revert to the status quo i.e. remain members.
That way the 52% get their shot, and if they blow it at least they had the opportunity to try, and the rest of us can get on with our lives.
As ever, @SimeOnStylites pressés the looming situation quite well. One of the salient points being that if the government’s Brexit position (à la Lanc House) is failing, then so is Labour’s.
good thread:
https://twitter.com/sime0nstylites/status/1013646549660954624?s=21
What did the eu ever do for us
Don’t forget how you used to get rippped off on the mobi when abroad that was a great moneymaker.
We have taken back control. And handed it to the phone companies.
Another cabinet Chequers away day this week then?
What was The definition of insanity again? Oh yeah.... doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
Two groups of people with entrenched, totally opposing views, who loath one another, presided over by a 'leader' without a shred of authority?
Im sure it'll all be sorted in no time then
So while ninfan gets all bothered about immigrants stealing all our NHS jobs or something...
We eagerly await May's 3rd way on customs & trade, it's got to be a bit less '**** business' than Borris would like, a bit more like the golden days of empire for Mogg, functional enough for the saner MPs, palatable to the EU & at least 10 pages thick so Gove has to rip each page individuallly rather than in one mighty shred.
Two groups of people with entrenched, totally opposing views, who loath one another, presided over by a ‘leader’ without a shred of authority?
Do they actually loathe each other?
I believe that these off-site meetings between two groups with disparate interests are much like those I attend in private sector business.
It may be a day of hot air, tantrums and little real progress. But, in the evening everyone meets in the bar and chats, jokes and enjoys some nice food and wine. After all, it's just work to them and whatever Brexit comes to pass, their work will continue. Of course, as you recognise, this is the real problem. None of the people making the decisions really care about the outcome - they're too well insulated in either scenario!
Do they actually loathe each other?
Only when talking about Brexit. They can all get together afterwards and laugh at the poor, needy and unprivileged
Moggys little strop has had some backlash from his fellow MPs
He shouldnt be so worried, May has always been anti-immigrant, so whe will reject any compromise from the EU that requires adherence to 4 freedoms.
This means that itll be a canda type deal requiring a loooooooong transition to keep manufacturing from leaving