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Snowden leaks revealved that the USA already share with most European countries individually via the NSAs Foreign Affairs Directorate
Do you really think that will continue? Trump will torch Nato next.
Do you really think that will continue? Trump will torch Nato next.
His loss, I expect the restraints to be put in before he does that.
yeah I agree
Putin looks more like Trumps puppet master everyday!
a small investment in disrupting democracy here & in america has paid off handsomely for putin
I really can't see why Corbyn isn't voting to protect worker's rights.
Because he’s an idiot, basically, who is so entrenched in his anti-EU rhetoric than he can’t see what’s going on right in front of him.
He’s whipping his MP’s to facilitate setting this country up as a sweatshop tax haven through his pig-headed intransigence, and refusal to update his political opinions from1973
I really can’t see why Corbyn isn’t voting to protect worker’s rights.
Simple, he's a protest politician who has no interest in power so he's letting the Tories run wild so he can shout on about what a shame it is, typical tories etc without actually doing anything about it.
Let the right wing nutters make everyone worse off so he can organise... a march or something.
GCHQ just weighed in, seems the EU relies on more than just the yanks.
On the topic of Corbyn, bring back Blair ffs - even if he is a war criminal.
I really can’t see why Corbyn isn’t voting to protect worker’s rights.
Because he dreams of a socialist utopia, and to be fair there are good arguments for bringing utilities and railways under public ownership. What he seems to struggle to grasp is that the reality is handing over power to extreme right wing Chicago school economics. He is looking at the situation idealistically rather than allowing pragmatism to dictate his actions.
GCHQ just weighed in, seems the EU relies on more than just the yanks.
I think he has already explained to the PM that she needs to get her act together. The UK is placing unrealistic demands on the EU.
On the topic of Corbyn, bring back Blair ffs – even if he is a war criminal.
No thanks. If we're having Thatcherites, we might as well have Thatcher herself than a fraud magnitudes greater than Corbyn.
I was flicking through the papers in the cafe the other day and I think it was the express that had a editorial on Corbyn.
The picture they used was one of him looking statesmanlike rather than one of him murdering a baby.
The headline said “is this the man to save brexit?”
When the express start liking you there is a real problem.
The express has a headline today about us having to retire >70 thanks in part to inflation, 🤔🤔 wonder what's caused that.
Meanwhile
Oh look another sector already being damaged by brexit.
Leavers really do want to turn back the clock to the 70s, power cuts & all !
Brexit as an issue in itself is virtually dead within the Tory Party, it's now just a simple battle for survival and more importantly stay intact.
Mrs May will not want to be the one in history that destroyed the Party and sent them into the political wilderness. I have said it before on here the old Tory faithful (elected and members) are dying out and they will not allow the younger Tories to present a case that will win them votes.
All ethics and trust has been completely destroyed internally in both Brexit and remain camps. To say this is politics of desperation is a mild understatement. We should not forget this is a political civil war inside the Tories and it is rare in a civil war for the old guard to win.
Meanwhile we wander aimlessly around and the EU retains the power to say "non"
going well I see
It's all going to shit. Meanwhile the pro-EU Tory MPs are doing what they've always done - compromise their principles for the sake of party unity. They've done this plenty of times and Grieve et al's actions should come as no surprise.
I'm beginning to think that the best thing to happen is for the UK to be faced with "No deal" and be given a chance to rethink.
look around,
were not smart enough to rethink it
That front page couldn't sum it up any better if it tried:
"Thousands of high tech jobs about to be lost, but just look at the opportunities in the fruit picking sector"
FML
Exactly, when did fruit picking become a full time job. Used to be done by students but even they don't want to do it now and it is left for the only people that want to do it (immigrants). Still, it will be much better when it has all settled and the country has recovered after Brexit (I would guess that will be around 20-30 years time)
We’ve only had powered flight for little over a hundred years.
We managed to make the greatest empire the world has ever seen without planes.
We can do it again.
Let the lion roar.
To early for full on irony isn’t it?
Zippykona, it looks like when we next fight the battle of Umboto Gorge, we’ll be armed with the fruit.
This is exactly as predicted by project fear & remarkably by Economists For Brexit.
They reckon that if we go hard brexit we'll have to cut all tarifs & this will boost trade but we will lose much of our manufacturing, with these jobs being replaced in the food processing industry.
We can mint all of the workers who lose their jobs a special “Hero of the British empire “ medal .
They can even have a fast track queue at the job centre.
I reckon they’ll make a fortune if they flourish their medals when out begging.
Imagine the excitement if you get given your medal by Rees Mogg rather than Paul scully.
They can even have a H.O.T.B.E evening on itv with Davina Mcall.
She can do her one year later show . They can start with the happy family in their 4 bed detached house then one year later visit them in their bedsit. We can all clap and cheer as they have avoided living on the streets.
They can visit random bedsits and tell the families within, that they’ve won a weeks holiday picking fruit on one of Bojo’s death camps sorry farms.
Fun for any age.
The climax of the evening will be Gove handing over one of those huge cheques for £30.
Really showing the human side of the Tory government.
Let the lion roar.
Ok. One poll. Probably unrepresentative. It’ll change next week. Nothing to get excited about.
But...
Time for Westminster to start honouring the will of the people and at least put Brexit on pause (I reckon the EU would see a way to a deal on that).
"Let them pick fruit"...
Let the kitten miaow.
love this comment from the daily fail on holidaymakers face £50 visa after brexit
Up yours EU! You can shove the £50 where the sun doesn't shine!
what like Cleethorpes ? came to mind
(I would guess that will be around 20-30 years time)
Sooner. We will be firmly back in the EU before that.
But first, we have some "house cleaning" to do.
fascinating blog from a QC here about how the meaningful vote amendment 'victory' will bite the brexies in the arse
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2018/06/a-westminster-whimper-and-brussels-bang.html?m=1
& links to this piece on how bad May seems to be at all of this
It looks like Rolls Royce owners BMW are prepared for Airbus to move
they opened their new plant making the same airbus engines they make in Derby in Dahlwitz last year
It looks like Rolls Royce owners BMW are prepared for Airbus to move
BMW do not own the Aero-engine-makers Rolls-Royce.
ahh you are right just the cars
so its a british owned company moving jobs to the EU to hedge against Brexit!
so its a british owned company moving jobs to the EU to hedge against Brexit!
Massive multinational with an HQ in the UK. They have operations world wide
Massive multinational with an HQ in the UK. They have operations world wide
Mind you at one point considered vital for UK defence to have an internal aero engine supplier...
not sure if engineering independence is more or less critical now...
We managed to make the greatest empire the world has ever seen without planes.
And lose it.
Latest little snippet I saw today was that if you add up the lost tax revenue of the companies leaving the UK it adds up to more than membership of the EU costs.
It seems no matter how much business point out the issue it seems the Tories take less notice.
I don't think it's now any more complicated than " let's hope it works out ok"
Trouble is it appears as if the rest of the world is planning for the worst and the Tories are hoping for the best.
I do wonder if the cunning plan is to let the obvious misery and pain build up to the point that the Tories in power simply cave in to a Norway style deal knowing there is not enough support to topple the deal
We’ve got the Tories talking about funding the NHS with tax rises. They’re talking about legalising cannabis. A good chunk of their vote is happy for the U.K. to break up as long as (little) England gets to leave the EU. If Corbyn inherits Brexit he may be arguing for fiscal responsibility.
The world’s gone mad.
the way the US , China and Russia are behaving , the UK has no chance on its own .
But DD told us that German car manufacturers would force their government into treating us favourably. You’re not saying we were lied to are you? 😢
STW Quitlings (because we all know they’re still reading this avidly) And Leavers: It’s important that the EU realises we’ll walk away if we don’t get what we want. That’s an important part of a negotiation.
BMW, Airbus, etc: We need to make contingency plans in the event that the U.K. crashes out of the EU with no deal - those contingencies may mean completely moving mfg out of the U.K.
Leavers: Project Fear! The Newquay fishing industry will save the U.K. along with fruit picking jobs in Kent and Herefordshire.
Lexit nurjobs: Nationalise Airbus. 😂
I like James O'Briens take on the Brexit talks.
''It's like negotiating a deal to buy a new house, then the deal falling through to then find you have already burned down your own home.''
I am still curious to know where Turkey's 78,000,000 population will end up if they ain't coming here, which is just as well because I heard that they wanted to rename 'The White Cliffs of Dover'. How dare they!!
It is in some ways a bit like Suez but in slomo.
Things might start happening when the stock market plunges but it will get really interesting if the government finds that no one wants to buy their bonds because Brexit makes Sterling too risky.
There is always someone who will buy the bonds... look at what happened to Argentina...
I do wonder if the cunning plan is to let the obvious misery and pain build up to the point that the Tories in power simply cave in to a Norway style deal knowing there is not enough support to topple the deal
I thought this from the start. Wise people knew it would never get done so just pretended they are doing it, Hard Brexit, No deal better than a bad deal etc, but ultimately don't go through with it and blame the EU or anyone else you can find to blame while looking to not ignore that critical "will of the people".
It's not acceptable to ignore the will of the people who were voting two years ago. It's perfectly acceptable to ignore the will of the people who are currently eligible to vote.
Bog roll Brexit, I would rather use bog roll than just shit my pants and use my had to clean up which is what Brexit will do to the country.
Johnson happy to trash the Tories image as the party of business to keep his swivel eyed base primed for his leadership bid & distract from his heathrow vote cowardice.
Self confessed trump lover going all trumpian
So you are head Airbus, Nissan etc in the UK and you watch Liam Fox sprout the " No deal" position. Boris says **** business.
Yet on the.other hand you are being told by May and Davies it will all be fine....
You have told them you need a customs union exactly the same as the one we currently have.
You need to know now what will happen in March next year.
How the he'll do you make a decision.
It’s not acceptable to ignore the will of the people who were voting two years ago. It’s perfectly acceptable to ignore the will of the people who are currently eligible to vote.
... and perfectly acceptable to ignore the will of almost half those who voted against the idea.
Now it's leaked I/we can comment on it…
https://twitter.com/ninadschick/status/1010422244676431879
The man is a liability. And we wouldn't be in this shit if it wasn't for him… and still he keeps digging deeper…
Enough to get him sacked?
Instantly undoing all of the hard work that Davis has done!
Enough to get him sacked
He could take a shit on the doorstep of number 10, live on TV, and it still wouldn't get him sacked.
Sack him and the reigns are totally off. He's then really free to say what ever he wants
May needs to keep her enemies close
How the Hell do you make a decision.
Easy, you go to the mayor of Seville, Tychi or even Turin and ask them if they have 1000ha of undeveloped land next to existing car factories and their supply chains.
May needs to keep her enemies close
Doesn't work and has been the downfall of many a dictator. You have to kill your enemies to completely remove any threat - see Russia
I know this thread is only for you Remoaners ... but I just got to add that I am well impressed with your stamina to still be crying about the result.
It must really be an unhealthy obsession for yous by now.
No, we’re just waiting for the one leaver with half a brain cell (there must be one, surely) to post a cogent argument for leaving. Funnily enough, you failed in that task.
How unlike a leaver to pop buy just to fling in a couple of insults without actually adding anything to the conversation.
Doubly so given that no-one has mentioned "the result" in ages, let alone cried about it. But don't let facts bother you, eh.
but I just got to add that I am well impressed with your stamina to still be crying about the result.
Ah a typical brexiter there moans about people asking for some serious answers and solutions while offering nothing. The boss of siemens UK joined a long list of rational people who pointed out the blindingly obvious while BoJo was trying to make a bog roll joke work.
The MP's and business leaders shouting about getting on with it are sounding more delusional by the moment, if airbus leaves we should be building planes here, the EU will blink that is why we need to play hard ball...
the one leaver with half a brain cell (there must be one, surely)
To be fair, IME the vocal STW leavers appear to be generally of considerably higher intellect than the majority of leaver commenters on the rest of the Internet.
Generally.
if airbus leaves we should be building planes here
Oh, no. If Airbus leaves we won't be affected. See:
I am well impressed with your stamina to still be crying about the result.
We're well beyond that, we're just trying to evaluate the consequences of your ilk's pyrrhic victory.
Alright, I’ll rephrase: “...with two brain cells to rub together...” 😉
I get your point, but it really is Emperor’s New Clothes territory by now. Project fear is rapidly becoming project fact.
It's a price worth paying though, right? To get back all those things we already had and to take control of things we already control.
Time will tell.
Wait and see.
It could go to 5hit or it might be alright.
With quite a few job losses and more looming... although the low pound is helping exports, it isn’t helping investment.
Definitely uncertainty.
Definitely uncertainty.
And if its it’s one thing uncertainty brings it’s a strong economy, higher wages and low unemployment.
Oh, hang on, I’ve got that the wrong way round, haven’t I. Uncertainty kills those things.
Wait and see.
That's an incredibly bad idea IMHO.
It "might be alright" (though I'd bet one of my lesser-used internal organs that it won't be). But if it isn't and we've just gone "well, let's just wait and see" then it's too bloody late by then. If your house is on fire do you ring the fire brigade or do you watch it burn thinking "well, it might go out on its own"?
although the low pound is helping exports
Sounds great. Except, we're a net importer.
It’s pretty simple. If no deal was an option then the government (civil service side at least) would have already issued contracts for the it systems and major works. These takes years to come in.
what is happening now is just noise until a Norway style deal is made
It’s pretty simple.
It really isn't. And believing that it is is a big part of the problem. The day after the referendum there were leavers going "cool, does that mean we've left now, then?"
(And TBH if we'd just told them "yes" then we could probably have forgotten about the whole thing and everyone would be happy...)
So similar costs, similar restrictions, and even less control? Wow.
If no deal was an option then the government (civil service side at least) would have already issued contracts for the it systems and major works. These takes years to come in.
This is true, because the government and civil service has a long and proud history of managing IT and major works contracts with the kind of efficiency which is the envy of the developed world.
Assuming that there is no chance of falling off the cliff because this government hasn't started erecting a safety net at the bottom is putting waaay too much faith in our elected representatives.
There are some high profile figures who would like to see us splat onto the rocks below because they or their mates will make money scraping up the pieces.
They don't have that level of forethought......
Significant chunks of Airbus are owned by regional Governments in France and Germany (who previously vetoed the merger with BAES) and of course will relish the prospect of transferring jobs from from the UK using sweetener deals that carefully ignore state-aid. Meanwhile the UK Government who are so paralysed by Brexit will consider this acceptable collateral damage. They won't give a stuff that these are high-value jobs in manufacturing and engineering because they can be easily be replaced by 'service jobs' like a call-centre full of minimum-wage, zero-hours, part-time workers on Universal Credit that creates "full-employment".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44586638
Mind you 100's apparently turned up for the other one....
Once a “deal” is reached with the EU the rejection of this goes to a fall back option.
this will either be WTO or full membership.
Neither is acceptable to around 50% of the voters.
Also people may vote to spite each other or just get it over so full WTO might be more popular than you expect
Latest attendance figures I saw for the "meaningful vote" march were around 100,000.
Also people may vote to spite each other or just get it over so full WTO might be more popular than you expect
I'd hope somebody explains how that works before it's an option as there are a lot of misconceptions the first being that other people operate in that way.
Adding in the EU have to accept the deal in a democratic process does make it a complete lottery for the UK
I guess the point is that there is no middle ground that is acceptable to either side.
and to add....
WTO doesn't sort out Healthcare, movement of people, NHS Staffing, security, policing, law enforcement, borders, Northern Ireland and hundreds of other issues.