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So the regulation is or isn't needed?
The only thing the Maybot is interested in is the survival of the Tory party.
Thats it! End of story! Everything else is a secondary consideration thats so insignificant that it barely even registers. And if she has to lay waste to the countries economy to achieve that end? Well.... whatevs....
Because if the banking crisis taught us anything, its that the rich, privileged and entitled don't pay the price for the disasters they usher in. Its us little people who deal with the calamitous fall-out of their limitless greed and ambition, while they waltz off into the sunset totally unaffected.
It is another can-kick scenario.
She's made 'promises' to the remainers that the leavers won't accept and vice-versa is telling the leavers that they were only promises to consider / discuss. IDK what the next week's business entails, but based on past history of making and sticking to deadlines, I wouldn't be surprised if the formalising of the agreements made is then pushed further out for 'technical' reasons until sufficient pressure can be applied on the dissenters that the storm dies down.
And even if the agreements were formalised, it's not as if they don't have history of claiming they had their fingers crossed while signing and therefore they don't count.....
So we're then back to whether the remainer rebels have sufficient spine finally to vote against their leadership. Am I hopeful.......
It would make a great political drama, if it wasn't actually important.
So the regulation is or isn’t needed?
Undoubtedly is needed. The question is whether the measures proposed by the industry body are sufficient to stop abuses of data aggregation/political advertising (it's hard to tell without a firm definition of 'minimum numbers' or what 'individually-targeted' advertising actually means) or just a fudge to head off actual regulation by electoral or advertising watchdogs.
I'd rather it was dealt with by actual regulation, TBH. Industry bodies have a long and proud history of offering up various 'voluntary codes' which sound admirable but are geared more to their members' advantage than the public's.
So micro-targeting of political adverts does need regulation… you're just pointing out that other, and better, regulation is needed as well? I thought you were claiming micro-targeting doesn't happen… but reading your words now, you might just be saying people aren't doing it by hand. Anyway, the extract is just two points from a larger report.
I may be misreading what they are proposing, but I see nothing there which stops an advertiser aggregating people into susceptible/non-susceptible groups and targeting them with political advertising. They will simply make the groups slightly larger to fit in with some to-be-decided minimum threshold.
I suspect that the industry knows that the ship has already sailed on the extreme kind of data harvesting that was used during the referendum (the winding up of Cambridge Analytica supports this), so they know that the same level of micro-tailoring of advertising content won't happen next time anyhow. So can be safely offered up to be maybe-banned-for-now.
I'd prefer to see a greater restriction on the proportion of electoral advertising spend allowed on social media, which cuts the problem off more directly.
I do tend to look at industry proposals with a cynical eye, though. Perhaps there is some honest intent behind this one rather than just offering the appearance of cleaning house to keep electoral advertising spend flowing into the agencies.
So consider my first comment more as a raised eyebrow than condemning the proposals out of hand.
Corbyn is a **** but I’m liking Ken Clarke.
Tell me about it. I never once imagined that I’d have reason to send Michael Heseltine a thank you letter. I had a really nice response from him too.
We live in interesting times.
So consider my first comment more as a raised eyebrow than condemning the proposals out of hand.
So, it was a "that's not enough" comment, on a tiny extract, containing just two suggestions, from a large report, packed full of suggestions. Thank you for your time.
Anyway, micro targeting exists… as do campaigns targeting different groups with contradictory messaging, so both of those points are useful contributions "in my opinion". Being able to see all adverts linked to a campaign, in a central register, would at least mean that journalists could look for contradictions and call people out on them. If they consider that part of their job (some still do this kind of thing, rather than just sabre rattling with poor photoshopped montages).
the weird caching on this forum makes it damn hard to follow threads… when posts go missing for ages after they have been posted
[ edits also seem to take the long route from being posted to appearing in a thread ]
Anyway, personalised propaganda. Don't pretend that it is fantasy. Regulation is going to be tough, as always with the web.
I’m reliably informed from a contact close to the matter that a certain minister who may or may not be quitting their post in the coming weeks has been hitting the booze rather hard of late.
I do wish that Tim Martin would stick to flogging cut price booze instead of giving a running commentary on why Brexit is a good thing. If I wanted to listen to a right-wing pub landlord then I’d go to an Al Murray gig.
Thank you for your time.
You seem awfully upset because you re-posted a tweet and not everyone instantly thought it was the best thing eva.
Actually, I'm the only one who acknowledged it at all. Perhaps your micro-targeting is askew. Feel free to link to the full report/list of top suggestions if you want people to comment on that.
Anyway have a like.
Fear not! The UK economy is saved
"The company's founder, Tim Martin, who campaigned for Brexit, said it was part of a transition away from products made in the European Union."
He's going to have a duck fit when he finds out where Guinness comes from.
Champagne-makers must be quaking - I mean, who doesn't immediately visualise sitting in a Wetherspoons with a glass of posh bubbly?
Who on earth drink champagne in his pubs ?
Who on earth drink champagne in his pubs ?
Lots of people, depending on the places you go to, it's just a sparkling wine nowt that fancy about that
Or alcohol free beer!
Fwiw the Adnams one is no where near as nice as erdinger blue, Bree dog would've been a much better choice
So the SNP have just flounced out of PMQs over the lack of debate for devolved issues yeterday.
Another headache for May
*applauds*
It's not often I enjoy seeing Boris looking like a smug ****. In fact, it's the first time.
Not sure how getting the SNP to walk out, especially after yesterdays 'debate', is going to play in Scotland. They should just come right out and tell us to sit down, shut up, and swallow what we're given.
U suspect further polarising the debate in Scotland and increased support for staying in the EU
Fwiw the Adnams one is no where near as nice as erdinger blue,
blimey that was a quick try it's only been out for 12 days
"The only thing the Maybot is interested in is the survival of the Tory party"
TBH I don't think she gives a shit about the party. She'll give anything to stay PM for one more day but the longer she stays and the worse this gets the longer the more riven they'll be, the more likely the fruitbats are to take over and the longer they'll be in opposition.
i must have been talking about the adnams solestar, which is too sweet for my refined palate
as for the SNP, they will fire up their fans , not so sure about the undecideds, & it suits them well to make the tories look uncaring
One of our friends parents are typical gammons.
Even though they own a place in Greece they are total kippers.
Their favourite son, after many years has met a nice lady and they are in the throes of wedding planning and house hunting .
Mum and dad couldn't be happier.
However he works at Jaguar.
She might not be buying a hat just yet.
SNP have had 1000 new members sign up this afternoon.
we've been shut out of the Galileo project
A majority of member states have turned against the UK and voted in favour of pushing forward on the next round of contracts for the £8bn project, despite requests for a delay to allow negotiations over British involvement to progress. UK firms are being blocked from bidding for contracts.
Well, that’s a surprise to no one with half a brain cell.
So there were still a few Brexiters in Scotland. How many of them could swing the result for the whole UK?
So there were still a few Brexiters in Scotland. How many of them could swing the result for the whole UK?
Total Leave votes in Scotland - just over 1m.
Leave majority - almost 1.3m.
Bloody hell Corbyn is useless, May is there for the taking, to use a boxing analogy she is staggering around the ring, gum shield out and he still can’t land a telling blow.
I wonder if there's money to be earned for brits happy to take a job with a UK company relocating to the EU? Ideally being paid to live somewhere near the Alps?
Galileo ....
Who needs that crap when we launch our rival Gammoneo.
hmm the vote going against us how dare they.....
Welcome to the new world.
I wonder if there’s money to be earned for brits happy to take a job with a UK company relocating to the EU? Ideally being paid to live somewhere near the Alps?
Freedom of movement, still no clarity on residence rights after next march. Ignore the transition that isn't agreed yet.
Wonder at what point the UK faces the possibility of a military coup? Starting to believe that anything is now possible and the UK may be needing UN peacekeepers in the near future to restore order.
Who needs that crap when we launch our rival Gammoneo
Lol
<div class="bbp-reply-author">oldnpastit
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I wonder if there’s money to be earned for brits happy to take a job with a UK company relocating to the EU? Ideally being paid to live <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Somewhere near the Alps?</span>
Some really good jobs going at the EMA, would mean moving family to Holland when it leaves, which is lacking in elevation, but still very good jobs, I'm really considering it.
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Time for the political Sat Nav Jokes?
Corbyn - Turn Left Turn Left Turn Left
May - U Turn where possible
Borris - Wiffle Waffle YEAH!
Farage - I've no idea where you are but it's their fault
Kier Starmer on David Davis “So far this year he has threatened to resign more times than he has met Michel Barnier.”
"Parliament will have a meaningful vote and to be clear there will be no hard Brexit, Anna Soubry says"
"Full details of the amendment to be tabled to the EU Withdrawal Bill will be published later, ahead of a 5pm deadline for debating it in the House of Lords on Monday."
If that’s true, did Brexit just die in all meaningful ways?
The MPs in Westminster can have as many votes as they want if there is no credible plan and the negotiations fail then hard Brexit will be the default.
this is not something that is just a UK choice there are 27 other players and at the moment we have no plans, no direction and no hope...
Seems to me the UK is going to end up accepting the four freedoms whilst technically being out of the EU. And most likely paying 90% of current contributions but without any say in making the rules.
^^^ if that's what may goes for there will be a coup in the tory party probably led by JRM
Seems to be about the sum of it!
Still, blue passports
May won't go for it but, as far as I understand it, if the government can't sort out a deal then parliament steps in and I think that's the most likely deal they'll end up with.
Of course, you'd hope someone would say, 'Maybe this is so stupid we should have another referendum just to make sure the country is still populated by idiots?'
I think if May cannot get a deal thru the most likely result is the government collapses and there will be a newelection. What happens then? Who knows. Hopefully a bit of sanity.
And it’s all fallen apart again.
Meanwhile back in the Lords...
Remember TJ that the government can falter but that the right of parliament to reject the deal and instruct any new government to ask for more time or retract A50 would still be there - if the amendment passes (and I believe the Lords have reintroduced it). How the rest of the EU would react is another (very interesting) question.
To those saying Corbyn is useless on this - he is facing the same issues in some ways as May - his party is divided badly and attempts to hold it together are failing. He whipped "abstain" on one amendment, and got a a rebellion both ways with some rebelling to vote yes and some no. So no position he takes can unite the party and any movement away fromn a middle ground wil create more rebels on the side he moves away from
May won’t go for it but, as far as I understand it, if the government can’t sort out a deal then parliament steps in and I think that’s the most likely deal they’ll end up with.
I'm suggesting there will be a coup if May lets this be the no deal recourse
What could a coup achieve? What would be the point? Do you think either party could give control to people proposing an actual deal/plan of any kind? It seems you can only lead by not leading at the moment.
And who in thier right mind would want to take on the responsibility of this groundhog style repeating shitstorm..
I don't think there will be any leadership challengers just yet...
And who in thier right mind would want to take on the responsibility of this groundhog style repeating shitstorm..
the no deal brexit wing of the tory party are anything but rational it's all ideology and dogma with them. I don't think think they will be sucessful btw
seems mute now, to hold off a rebellion from the brexit wing she's re alienated the remainers
"a house divided against itself cannot stand" comes to mind for some reason 🙂
Could Grieve be lining up a leadership bid? I mean, we're all just assuming that if May goes one of the lunatics will get the job.
Does anyone believe the commons would support no deal?
Does anyone believe the executive would be stupid enough to go for it without explicit commons support?
Then the rEU should simply refuse to negotiate in the full knowledge that either they will get everything they want or the UK will try to retract A50.
Brexit is lost either way.
And we should remember in this the Brexies who have tried to trash the UK. They are to blame and should be made to pay.
I’m suggesting there will be a coup if May lets this be the no deal recourse
Even if there's a Tory coup, it's still a party that's got plenty of remainer MPs
So no position he takes can unite the party and any movement away fromn a middle ground wil create more rebels on the side he moves away from
he's not in the middle ground, he's hard brexit but keeping as quiet as he can about it in the hope that as few people notice as possibe, but as time goes on everyone is starting to see his position, even though it was obvious from the start. His popularity is failing as people see how duplicitous he is.
He just says the same rubbish about keeping all the benefits of the customs union apart from the bits he doesn't want, like free movement, as the tories said originally but not saying how he would magically be more successful in his negotiations than this lot, where it is likely that he would be worse.
he doesn't need to say anything - he is not in government screwing it all up. Very unlikely he would do worse, you have seen the progress so far haven't you? (take your blinkers off and have a look)
he’s not in the middle ground, he’s hard brexit but keeping as quiet as he can about it in the hope that as few people notice as possibe, but as time goes on everyone is starting to see his position, even though it was obvious from the start. His popularity is failing as people see how duplicitous he is.
See, this is why you cannot win as a politican. He's said he's prepared to put his own ideas aside and work towards consensus. Which is pretty damn reasonable in my view. And yet you call it duplicity.
Very unlikely he would do worse, you have seen the progress so far haven’t you? (take your blinkers off and have a look)
in your opinion, not in mine.
Progress so far is in such a mess basically because of all the remainers trying to put obstacles in the way.
The only ways to force any sort of decent deal was to play hardball, we've seen what happens when people try to normally negotiate and we've seen what happened to Greece.
Remaining in the EEA or customs union is in no way leaving the EU, which is what people voted for, but the remainers refuse to accept the plainly obvious meaning of the referendum and the result. If we are going to be screwed over by the end result, it will be the half-wit remainers fault.
so no infighting in the government and Tory party ?
^ and that is why the country is completely ****ed. Too many utterly delusional fantasists prepared to vote for idiocy.
See, this is why you cannot win as a politican. He’s said he’s prepared to put his own ideas aside and work towards consensus. Which is pretty damn reasonable in my view. And yet you call it duplicity.
but do you beleive him based on his track record of misleading statements - I certainly don't and more and more people are noticing and hence labours support is dropping, which is quite an acheivement in these times.
^ and that is why the country is completely ****. Too many utterly delusional fantasists prepared to vote for idiocy.
take a look in the mirror...
Ask anyone who negotiates trade deals in business...
Turner guy we all have the right to fight for what we believe in, the reason that Mrs May is struggling to deliver the will of the people actually has more to do with business, civil service etc going hang on this is not a good thing for jobs/prosperity unless you believe Rees Mogg Tim "Wetherspoon" and a whole raft of people who have hugely benefited from the EU and now need a low regulation country to make more cash.
Don't look at remainers look at the sheer desperation and greed that drives the above people pushing for Brexit- they smell profit...
If you are sat in the same financial position as them then I understand your concerns...
You may struggle to find someone who negotiates trade deals- hens teeth etc
Progress so far is in such a mess basically because of all the remainers trying to put obstacles in the way.
Nope. This mess is 100% down to the Brexies. They set out to trash our country for ideological reasons bordering on religious fanaticism and what a surprise - they’re making a hash of it.
All the Brexies were ever good at was moaning and criticising - not so good at doing anything constructive.
And as an interesting aside, it bizarrely turns out remainers are more likely even now to take an optimistic view of Britain’s future than Brexies.
Progress so far is in such a mess basically because of all the remainers trying to put obstacles in the way.
Ahh… the "it would have been all okay, if it wasn't for those of you who warned it wouldn't be okay" line. One of my favourites.
So, which obstacles are you referring to? There are many, of course, but I'd be interested to know which ones you think have been constructed by "remainers".
Progress so far is in such a mess basically because of all the remainers trying to put obstacles in the way.
No it's because your mob couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery.
Remaining in the EEA or customs union is in no way leaving the EU, which is what people voted for, but the remainers refuse to accept the plainly obvious meaning of the referendum and the result.
Do leave off: the average voter hadn't even heard of the customs union before the vote.
If we are going to be screwed over by the end result, it will be the half-wit remainers fault.
You shit the bed. Don’t try blaming someone else..
"Remaining in the EEA or customs union is in no way leaving the EU, which is what people voted for, but the remainers refuse to accept the plainly obvious meaning of the referendum and the result"
What a load of tripe. It's you that's refusing to accept the meaning of the referendum and the result, you brass necked hypocrite.
Actually, why not tack on some more made up nonsense onto the referendum. "It wasn't just a vote to leave the EU, despite that being the only question, it was a vote to leave the EU, the EEA, the Customs Union, and a new bike for Northwind". Since we're making it up I can't see why only hard brexiteers are allowed to make things up. I mean, obviously that's the precedent but it's about time we had a go.
The obstacles are there. NO one put them there - they just are. Such little things as the GFA, The EU constitution and laws / rules. International treaties which we signed up to. That sort of obstacle.
A brewery you say!! Brexiteers had better get started with their hops, malt, sugar and yeast, as I like a beer and I have no wish to drink the muck they make in such far flung places as Belgium and Germany.
Apparently they make wine in Australia and South Africa, and Wetherspoons wishes to introduce us to them. Has anyone tried wine from these continents and are they better than the vinegar that passes as wine from France, Spain and Italy?
Brilliant turnerguy, as predicted on here way back you and your head banger mates are blaming us now what we told you would happen is happening.
Have a read back, it was all predicted. Absolutely ace. For what it’s worth i’m doing exactly what I said I would do which was sit back and watch you lot **** it up. Lol.
Apparently us remainers are putting our wallets before freedom.
They nutters are getting all their excuses ready.
It is an interesting narrative isn’t it? Blaming the messenger for pointing out reality. It is one I can see gaining traction amongst the delusional nut jobs who had no real idea about how Brexit would work when they voted for it. Perhaps that is what you get if you base your campaign on an emotional fiction in the first place and continually denigrate and disregard the facts.
If we are going to be screwed over by the end result, it will be the half-wit remainers fault.
In other news, those who won a divisive referendum with a slim margin see fit to demand that the rest of us simply get on and go along with it, notwithstanding the fact that the Leave camp had no cocking idea what it actually wanted, had no plan as to how to get there, bet the farm on the EU rolling over and doing our bidding and had not considered how difficult it might be to untangle ourselves from forty five years of shared supranational legislation.
I guess that I'd better accept my portion of the blame for these events, then.
I spoke with a Leave voter on the 24th of June who joyously proclaimed that there would be "no more bloody commissioners from bloody Bombay telling us all what to do" just as my employer launched a restructuring exercise to mitigate a loss of revenue from our EU partners.
We're completely screwed, aren't we?
We'll get through. No one will be thanking key Brexit campaigners though, as they disappear to other countries.