Forum menu
Well Palantir (another dodgy data company this time named after the numenorean seeing stones in lord of the rings) who handle huge datasets for US & UK governments secret service whom wylie claimed were involved in the fraud.
Have changed their categorical denial of using the dodgy FB data or any contact at all with Cambridge Analytica, re brexit to 'we did, but it was only a few people'.
I'm sure they can be the key phrases if that's what you wish. Though as for lawyers saying "may have", MRDA
As a side note, it's refreshing to search for "may" and not find a load of vacuous nonsense.
TurnerGuy - when I was at Cardiff Uni all the student union paperwork on Kinnock apparently went missing
Is this a confession TG? When our Neil suffers identity theft, are you the man to send the police to chat to? 😜
As a side note, it’s refreshing to search for “may” and not find a load of vacuous nonsense
Made me chuckle . I think its fair to say the case is not proven however to claim there is no evidence requires some rather blue tinted [ or are they Union jack tinted these days] glasses.
I think the official name for the colour is French Navy. Or was that the delivery method.
shock horror, politicians have decided to shaft the electorate and ignore any evidence.
https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/978982713834262528
so all those promises / red lines from May and co - all were obviously ridiculous and never going to fly. All dropped.
Radio 5 is worth listening to at the moment. They're in Teeside. Which voted 85% to leave. The complaint from everyone is that their industrial base has been decimated, and an elite in London has essentially left them to rot.
All of this is obviously correct.
But to think that leaving the EU is going to offer the answers to that is just completely delusional. It'll just accelerate that.
The phrase they keep saying is that 'it can't get any worse'
I think they might be in for a rude awakening
Crikey, sounds like Teeside has a serious case of Stockhausen syndrome.
Same with clinical trials Kelvin, a lot of UK studies in limbo at the moment, because we can’t say what relationship will be re privacy laws etc.
See also UKs cake & eat it position over EMA
Very frustrating for researchers & drug companies
What concerns re privacy laws are there? Any links to articles that spell this out?
They’re in Teeside. Which voted 85% to leave. The complaint from everyone is that their industrial base has been decimated, and an elite in London has essentially left them to rot.
Whilst it was the EU giving them money....
What have the romans ever done for us?!!!
[i]binners wrote:[/i]
The phrase they keep saying is that ‘it can’t get any worse’
This is the essential delusion - as rubbish as it might be in a lot of those areas, they have no idea how much better it is than it could be.
Might have been the same people on Radio 4 with Liam Fox this morning. I paraphrase (and don't quote the numbers, it's what I remember-ish)
"Trade with the EU used to be 60%, now it's 46% and our trade is growing with China, Korea, etc."
"But we make moulded plastic panels for car doors. No-one's going to ship them half way round the world to be used in Korean factories"
"But trade is growing with Korea and it will be growing faster than our trade with EU"
"Not with car door panels"
"But we have to find a way to build our trade with countries like Korea"
"Not on door panels you won't"
"Trade with the EU used to be 60%, now it's 46% and our trade is growing with China, Korea, etc." and so on.
Wired to the ****ing moon........
Equally clueless bunch of ****wits interviewed on R4 this morning too (probably around 7-7:30am), many had voted remain but all just wanted it over and done with regardless of what harm it was likely to cause. I find it hard to give a shit for them but there are lots of innocents caught up in it too.
I shall look forward to the "remember them " brigade on Facebook bravely giving up their holiday entitlement so that we can compete globally.
They shall march bravely forward wth one weeks paid holiday and no sick pay knowing full well that they voted for it.
****s.
The Working Time Directive guarantees a minimum of 20 days. In the UK we're guaranteed 28 days if you include bank holidays. I think if they'd wanted to reduce holiday pay then would they not have reduced it to the 20 days minimum under the WTD already?
Youd have to have a Mogg / Fox government before they start lopping off annual leave!
So far weve seen that inflation has taken >£600 from the annual family thanks to the vote (that was in November, will be more by now)
of course that has hit the poorest the hardest, its remarkable that those interviewed are so relaxed about it all
what is even more remarkable is that so many socialists still back Brexit after that!
There's a fair number that I know who voted to leave as a protest vote....
I mean WTF???
You voted to make yourself worse off & restrict your opportunities to stick 2 fingers up at a political elite who are so well insulated that any fallout from Brexit will go virtually unnoticed by them.....?!
You couldn't make it up..
There's nothing like siding with an ex banker to really stick it to the man.
I will take great delight in touring the North of England once it had become a festering cess pitt after brexit..reminding them of their folly
Got this email though this morning, not sure how rellevant it is....
You recently signed the petition “Parliament's vote on the Brexit deal must include an option to remain in the EU.”:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/205169We've had to change the date of the debate on this petition. The petition will now be debated on Monday 30 April at 4.30pm.
You'll be able to watch the debate online at www.parliamentlive.tv
We're really sorry if this change causes you any inconvenience.
I will take great delight in touring the North of England once it had become a festering cess pitt after brexit..reminding them of their folly
Oi. Not all of us voted for this shitshow that's currently unfolding. But if you are touring, can you remind those 12-fingered folk in the South-West as well. Don't forget, they actually think the Govt' will continue to pay the subsidies the EU currently does.
There is clear evidence including a paper trail of the overspending. You can prentend all you like this is not so
That pink-haired Chris Wylie bloke that exposed the CA 'scandal' would have voted brexit apparently...
On the electorial commission page here :
the leave campaign spent £11.5m whereas remain spent just over £16m, and those tables don't show the 9m the government spent on that leaflet they posted round just before the end.
So I think any overspending by leave is pretty inconsequential as leave spent a lot less than remain anyway, plus add on all the pressure from the establishment figures.
Unless you are suggesting that there is an undeclared £13.5m spend that leave got away with ?
The Working Time Directive guarantees a minimum of 20 days. In the UK we’re guaranteed 28 days if you include bank holidays. I think if they’d wanted to reduce holiday pay then would they not have reduced it to the 20 days minimum under the WTD already?
NOpe - 20 days plus bank holidays is the WTD minimum which is why when the WTD ws passed many UK emplyees got increased holidays.
May people had to wait 6 months or a year before getting any holidays - no more.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32003L0088
No mention of bank holidays under article 7
It was the UK Working Time Regulation (amendment) 2007 that increased it to 28 days.
And that was after losing a court case where the UK tried to claim that the 20 days included bank holidays. The UK government faught hard to make the 20 days include public holidays but they were proven wrong in court which is why the UK had to introduce that new regulation.
Yes but it is a UK law which means it would need an act of Parliament to repeal. I doubt any government would get a majority for that nevermind a minority government.
the leave campaign spent £11.5m whereas remain spent just over £16m, and those tables don’t show the 9m the government spent on that leaflet they posted round just before the end.
How much is 40years worth of DM anti EU rhetoric?
This MEP was pretty representative of the Conservative party not that long ago… before the UKIPification… and still vocally states what many in his party probably still think, but feel they need to keep quiet in the current climate…
@TurnerGuy, are you pretending to not know what the point is? Nothing to stop lots of different campaign groups making their points through funded campaigns… but campaigns hiding where the money comes from, where and how it is spent, who is controlling it, which bodies outside UK jurisdiction are envolved, and who is in control, is more than a bit fishy.
Total spend of all campaigns, is not the point (neither of those figures include ads and sites paid for by companies, like Tate&Lyle for example), the point is a campaign breaching its own spending limits by setting up, and controlling, sub-campaigns, with their overspend.
Don’t forget, they actually think the Govt’ will continue to pay the subsidies the EU currently does.
Well, most of the gvt has second homes there, so perhaps they do have a hope
Yes but it is a UK law which means it would need an act of Parliament to repeal.
Sure. But that repeal act doesn’t have to be a standalone “we’re taking your holidays” bill, it could be buried deep with some far reaching “innovation efficiency” act. Thus it would be much harder to spot, and no need to highlight it as policy ahead of an election built on “post-Brexit jobs and growth”.
are you pretending to not know what the point is?
No he genuinely cannot comprehend simple points that are counter to his political views.
The Telegraph, or as THM used to refer to it the Brexit Bugle, sounding all doom and gloom about trade deals. Interesting. Read into it what you will.
Closing remarks in that article?
Fox told The Daily Telegraph in November that the Government "will be judged by the success of Brexit".Unless he and Cabinet colleagues agree what success actually means in trade terms and fully commit to them in order to create a coherent strategy, that will be a hard phrase to live by.
There seem to be more and more articles appearing in the pro Brexit press stating that Brexit is a bit of a mess.
But we know the grown ups are in charge so nothing to worry about....
But we know the grown ups are in charge so nothing to worry about….
Having seen adults being let loose with power and alcohol I'm really reassured about this
So... what's the best way to vote to stop brexit?
In a GE?
No way in reality. Both the main parties will go through with Brexit. I don't think we can even say with any certainty which Brexit any party would end up with.
"There seem to be more and more articles appearing in the pro Brexit press stating that Brexit is a bit of a mess."
Only natural- they know it's going to go badly so now they're lining up their scapegoats. Brexit would have been a glorious success if it weren't for those pesky kids. If only Rees Mogg had been prime minister!
In a GE?
No way in reality. Both the main parties will go through with Brexit. I don’t think we can even say with any certainty which Brexit any party would end up with.
Well, I couldn't vote for either of them. Has any party committed to looking at the whole ridiculous thing, instead of the will of a third of the people?
lib dems said they would at the last GE.
there's time for labour to alter their stance. i suspect end of this year when arrangements start to firm up ( or not ) we'll get to see the shape of things properly, not least the dawning realisation for the majority of the leavers that this isn't the leave they voted for.
Fox's problem is that gov impact assessments showed that if he got all the trade deals he wanted it'd only add up to 1% (im rounding up) extra GDP.
(Those numbers approved by his own department too.)
That doesn't make a dent in the 5-8% loss from the rest of brexshit
So yeah remoaners & evil EU gonna be getting blame for our own self-harm
I have friends who were very Leave.
To be fair the relationship cooled as it was clear my friend's wife was the official spokesperson for the express. A few drinks and rants about how the Turks were coming made her unpleasant company.
Just started seeing them again and a casual enquiry as to how work was had him lumping the bad weather and Brexit as reasons for it being quiet.
She then chimes in that "they said brexit was going to sort everything out, they didn't know what they were talking about." Then a good old anti Brexit rant.
One thing that unites the country is the state of the roads. Enlola May has told us that we will all be better off after Brexit. People will want that money spent NOW to fix the roads.
It ain't going to happen. Our roads will be a barometer of exactly how shit this country is turning. We don't all see the mess in our hospitals everyday, we certainly see roads.
The libs need a bus saying they will spend £350000000 on the roads every week.
I urge you all to hassle your leave mp and ask why the roads aren't fixed yet. We need roads fit for our proud British Lions.
Both the main parties will go through with Brexit.
I certainly agree with this. But once Brexit is achieved, all parties involved will be released of their obligations to it. It will not be a once in a generation decision like some were trying to impose.
The next phase is the way back, and with the sh*t show Brexit is turning out to be, as predicted, this will start to happen sooner rather than later.
Has any party committed to looking at the whole ridiculous thing, instead of the will of a third of the people?
Yes, the Liberal Democrats.
Can someone whizz up a poster of a pot holed road and the wording...we are spending £1 billion to buy 10 Irish votes ..let's spend it on fixing our roads instead.
Then we can plaster it all over social meja.
Still… at least we're getting more curry chiefs… and other people with valuable skills… from the commonwealth… after leaving the EU… just as the Leave campaigners "promised"…
Well the leave campaign are showing theirs true colours, red white & blue brexit, after all
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/981947079315476481?s=20
No mention of Musilms in that Leave.EU tweet, which is a pleasant change.
Has any party committed to looking at the whole ridiculous thing, instead of the will of a third of the people?
SNP. Greens
The SNP have the somewhat troublesome position of arguing that leaving this political and economic union, to which we’re a net contributor, will be a disaster whereas leaving that far older and deeper political and economic union, from which we’re a net recipient, will be fine. Excuse me if I’m a tad sceptical.
Hoping for a Lib Dem revival at the next GE!
Dont just vote lib, join them.
It doesn't cost much and you get a nice badge.
Airtragic -apart from the fact we are huge net contributor to the UK. taxes raised in Scotland are much larger than taxes spent in scotland if you include all the tax that is raised in scotland but reported in London.
Anyway - its not about SNP baaaaaad - its just making the point they are a pro EU party
The SNP have the somewhat troublesome position
As oppose to the others who want to remain in one and leave the other
One of the surprising things was how many people [ myself included] took differeing views on the two unions. To single out the SNP for this is rather unfair.
Indeed - the unionists / little englanders want to remain in the UK which is toxic to scotland and leave the EU which is a boon to scotland - I have heard the same people using diametrically opposite arguments for the two positions.
which is toxic to scotland
The majority of Scottish voters appear to disagree (there was a vote about it and everything if you remember 😉 )
The majority of Scottish voters appear to disagree (there was a vote about it and everything if you remember.
They voted to remain in the UK as part of the EU before the brexit fiasco.
If the UK was to leave the EU, dragging Scotland with it, that moves the goal posts somewhat. Doncha think?
At the risk of dragging this thread in an even more irrelevant direction a significant minority of SNP support wants out of both and for a significant number of people if they had to choose between UK and EU they would chose EU - even some people I know who campaigned for NO in the scots referendum have changed to supporting independence for Scotland 'cos they believe the EU is so important. So we have people moving in both directions - some YES voters voted YES in the scots referendum to get out of the EU believing the westminster line that a YES vote meant leaving the EU and some who voted NO have now changed to YES to stay in the EU.!
Its really nuanced and odd with different groups with different motivations and it seems the two groups going in different directions more of less cancel out
They voted to remain in the UK as part of the EU before the brexit fiasco.
If the UK was to leave the EU, dragging Scotland with it, that moves the goal posts somewhat. Doncha think?
No, because it was a known risk of voting to remain in the UK before the vote ("dragged out" as Alex called it at the time) as was the risk of being unable to continue existing EU membership under independence (see what Catalonia have been told about continued EU membership since).
You can't claim that the goal posts have been moved if you knew about the risk beforehand. The goal posts justification only appeared when they didn't get the result they expected/wanted
Nonsense, and you know it.
When the Scottish indie ref. Took place, the UK leaving the EU was just a concept designed by the Conservatives for fear of losing votes to UKIP.
Bad gamble that turned out to be as UKIP have since self destructed of thier own accord, just goes to show how poor the judgement of the Conservative Party is.
The EU I'm sure would have been happy to 'fast track' Scotland into the EU in the event Scotland left the UK, as they are already in the EU under the umbrella of the UK, it would be little more than a rubber stamp exercise.
Comparison to catalonia is also absurd, a better analogy for catalonia seperateing for Spain would be London declaring independence from England.
Nonsense, and you know it.
When the Scottish indie ref. Took place, the UK leaving the EU was just a concept designed by the Conservatives for fear of losing votes to UKIP.
"Today Britain sits at the margins of European influence, and if Scotland remains governed from London we face the prospect of an in/out referendum on whether to be part of the European Union at all. It is conceivable that unless we choose to change our circumstances this September we could be dragged out of the European Union against our will."
Alex Salmond, April 2014
The EU I’m sure would have been happy to ‘fast track’ Scotland into the EU in the event Scotland left the UK, as they are already in the EU under the umbrella of the UK, it would be little more than a rubber stamp exercise.
That isn't what the EU have said to Catalonia, is it?
Yes, yes, all very messy for Scotland.
Now… going back a thousand pages in this thread… before we vote to Leave the EU, can anyone sketch out a plan for how this will effect the border in Ireland, and the special status of NI EU citizens conferred on them by the Good Friday Agreement? To vote without that being even roughly known would be utterly reckless, and potentially very damaging.
That isn’t what the EU have said to Catalonia, is it?
Spain is an EU state. Pretty soon the UK won't be. The EU protects its memberstates' interests. It would never support a country breaking away from a member state. Despite what the propaganda will have you believe… it is a group of sovereign states. It would, however, probably welcome back a country breaking away from a state that has left the EU… I can't currently think of a reason for it not to… a shrinking state that has left the EU with a mess to clear up would have a real problem persuading the EU member states to protect its interests… well, depending on how much mess it makes, and how distant it had become by then, I suppose.
Still no solution to the NI border issue let alone before the vote. Its clear that the leavers in the tory party didn't even consider it.
They clearly didn't consider much at all.. .. If anything.
Wasn't boris Johnson on record saying he didn't really understand the Irish issue.. He's foreign secretary for gods sake, he's expected to have a firm grasp and understanding of our neighbours issues, it's literally his job, that's what he gets paid quite handsomely for.
Remember… it's "their" fault, not "our" fault, whenever any actual change has to occur because of "our" decision to change everything (although "nothing will really change" and "we'll keep the exact same benefits" etc)…
[img] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaMNzXmWsAIsGWs?format=jpg&name=large [/img]
"plotting"
are those supposed to be links? 'cos for me there is nothing to see!
Images. I'm not linking to the Sun "story", but will fetch you a link for the second one…
I am not seeing images either dunno why
I see images, but videos are broken.
If only there was an sticky where we could report these teething issues with the new forum software (I hope there was a decent % held back for snagging)
Yep completely nothing at all going on there, I'm sure lots of people are currently "Plotting" to try and make things workable in uncertain times and avoid the UK as much as possible
Tracey Emin sends a message of love to Europe via St Pancras
oh dear it looks like the EU have just found a 12BN a year black hole in their budget , and it seems this is after they have taken our membership buy out payment too, and still come up short.
The annual EU budget is €145 bn (2015 figures) – a large sum in absolute terms, but only about 1% of the wealth generated by EU economies every year. The budget is subject to limits established by the multiannual financial framework.
Numbers should always be in context 12bn < 0.1% of the wealth generated by the EU economies every year.
It's an issue but not an insurmountable one
oh dear it looks like the EU have just found a 12BN a year black hole in their budget
Presumably they bought the mag every time that ducking pop up appeared
Just got my tax code notice for this year.
There is handy breakdown of where last years was spent - greedy bastard EU took a whole 0.7%!!!!!
I'll be glad when I get that back.
1.5bn ready to be spent preparing for brexit. you could get 57,000 nurses or 50,000 primary school teachers for that.
( from the 'eye )