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@jimjam that was my point on “smuggling” the UK for its part currently just turns a blind eye for the sake of peace in Ireland. We could just do the same once we leave. May says she will do more and work with the EU but for me you can interpret her words as meaning we can just keep doing the same post Brexit. We won’t put up a border.
The technological solution is obviously little more than that - we'll put up some cameras, maybe not switch them on and not bother to fix them when they are inevitably broken. At the minute both countries turn a blind eye because citizens have dual citizenship and freedom of movement under the GFA. There's also a huge amount of regulatory alignment since both countries are in the EU. There's no giant regulatory loophole which could create a blackmarket too big to ignore. What happens if Turkey join the EU and Turkish citizens just use Ireland as a back door to the UK?
Cross border communities are just that - communities which span both sides of the border. The long term political subtext was obviously to increase cross border bodies, increased regulatory allignment and co-operation, so cross border trade, work, hospitals, ambulances, even policing down the line to the point where there's little or no distinction which side of the border you're on. Brexit will likely throw a spanner in the gears for a lot of people unless it's an Island Ireland which makes perfect sense from our POV because it changes nothing for people in NI and ROI and it's what the majority of people in NI voted for.
So finally Germany has a Government after 5 months of paralysis. Merkel hanging on by her fingertips having to give up finance ministry as well as foreign affairs. As per UK all eyes will be on who will succeed her and when. At least she has avoided another election at which the AfD would only make further gains.
Tonight’s results in Italy may possibly (probably) put the anti-EU parties as the largest single block. I am sure they won’t form the Government but convict Berlesconi will be back and he has committed to deport 600,000 illegal migrants as 5-Star and League drive the agenda
Interesting how the electoral results show how much more liberal the UK is than so much of Europe. Macron even admitted to Andrew Marr France would vote for Frexit
In other news fascinating that EU put 10% tariffs on US cars whilst US only imposes 2.5% on EU cars. Seems to make sense to even that up
So finally Germany has a Government after 5 months of paralysis.
The UK hasn’t had a functioning government since June 2016. What’s your point?
Interesting how the electoral results show how much more liberal the UK is than so much of Europe.
Or that they just have more representative electoral systems
In other news fascinating that EU put 10% tariffs on US cars whilst US only imposes 2.5% on EU cars.
Probably fairly irrelevant. American cars are by and large utter shite.
Jamba what do you feel about those surrendering pussies at The Leave Alliance's opinion about the WTO?
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128
I keep asking what is so special about the WTO.
Another unelected acronym that wants me to pay 30% more for my chocolate. That's not taking back control. That's a hard working British taxpayer bring told what to do by foreigners.
'In other news fascinating that EU put 10% tariffs on US cars whilst US only imposes 2.5% on EU cars. Seems to make sense to even that up'
certainly if you're an american car manufacturer, however american cars are pretty cheap if you care to look. they are for the most part also uniformly shit, but that's just an opinion you understand. 😉
Jamba what do you feel about those surrendering pussies at The Leave Alliance’s opinion about the WTO?
You don’t honestly expect to get anything approaching a constructive answer, do you?
French polls are pro-Euro and anti-Frexit. You need to link Macron saying that because he's not often wrong on points of fact, Jamba.
May hanging on by fingertips propped up by the DUP who will never accept the Brexit May needs to get Irelands agreement (Any deal has to get the republic's agreement).
French and Italian far right policies hijacked by the right which did them a disservice in France and in Italy we'll see.
"liberal" means many different things to different people so I've no idea what you mean by Britain being more liberal than most of the rest of Europe. Define "liberal" and then we can debate.
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
So finally Germany has a Government after 5 months of paralysis.
Oh look, a squirrel!
JambyAnswer on the border / WTO question, or indeed what is currently smuggled yet?
It really would be nice to get an answer on these recurring questions, Jamby. So much of your argument depends on these issues being resolved in a timely and effective manner.
MM which is the worst option? hm here trolling or Jamby picking up him mantle and immediately rejoining* when he is [ presumed] banned
It seems the two work in tandem to troll this thread and coordinate off forum to achieve this end
Is he buying your P this time?
Apologies if this is breaking the rules, but I think Jambalaya is genuine, he doesn't answer the difficult questions because he can't, they're not really answerable questions. To admit that is to admit that the whole process is an unholy mess, and that calls into question his Brexit ideology, and that will cause all sorts of cognitive dissonance, so it's easier just to ignore it and hope it all comes out in the wash, it's the govt approach after all.
THM is pretty nasty, and has some strange obsession with feeling like he's the cleverest person in the room, done mostly by winding other people up. Many pages ago on this thread his mask of civility slipped, for a few posts, it was unedifying, but rather educational.
THM isn’t “nasty” at all. IMO he see’s no need to be polite to those that show little courtesy to others. Look at the regular “lefty” posters and their ban records. TMH and mefty are Remainers but as they are “right wing” in the view of others the desire for this to be a Remain exho chamber sees them singled out
The STW poll was 80% Remain, its clear fhe forum users and in particular regular posters here are not representative
Your views are no more representative than the remainers.
Look at the regular “lefty” posters and their ban records
the ones all here and not banned ? Why dont we just discuss his ban record - anyway i am sure he appreciates the defence* and i hope it earns you your P
* will whatabouterry be enough? It will probably help if you dont accept he is not polite in your next "defence"
Zokes the answer is the EU have to budge or unilaterally we will go WTO and not erect a border our side. The EU is playing a game of “computer says no”.
it is upto both sides to find a solution. A customs union that restricts our ability to do global trade deals (and this redice our ourcjases from them) is what the EU wants.
We have a unilateral solution as I have said repeatedly. I saw all this nonsense coning which is why I posted more than a year ago that WTO was the right way forward with us focusing our attention and rescources globally.
The EU has made no provision at all for WTO outcome with regard to its budget (thry’ve done all they can to stall the budget process for 2021-8 in order to paper over looming arguments). As JRM points out in the video I posted the EU can’t borrow money so if we stop sending £1.5bn a month to them in April 2019 they are in a dreadful mess.
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
Oh look, another link from jamba's personal echo chamber - but with this one you get a free:
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
Zokes the answer is the EU have to budge or unilaterally we will go WTO and not erect a border our side.
That's not an answer. It's already been explained why it's not an answer. Homework for you - rather than having your views reinforced by the fools at your personal echo chamber do some research and find why it isn't an answer (clue, the reason has been posted on this thread).
Zokes the answer is the EU have to budge or unilaterally we will go WTO and not erect a border our side.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph! How many times does it have to be pointed out that this is not an option under WTO rules, even the former head of WTO explained it in fairly simple terms ;
"There will need to be a physical border with Ireland after Brexit if the UK leaves the customs union, the former head of the World Trade Organisation has confirmed.
Speaking to MPs, Pascal Lamy dismissed the idea the UK could operate an invisible border on the island of Ireland while also having different trade tariffs with the EU.
He shot down the Government’s plan for a “virtual border”, saying such a customs arrangement does not exist anywhere in the world"
It's beyond unicorns, ffs
Sorry aracer have I spoiled the homework assignment?
Almost no one is arguing for WTO rules so your views are even less representative than the remainers on here. Have you made your list yet of countries who only do this? Are they all border free?
The idea that a border issue is not our concern is pretty nuts
The idea that WTO mean you dont have to have a border is complete gibbeirsh . Given how much you have gone about it one would have hoped you would understand it by now
Please read this I am sick of posting it
[i]kilo wrote:[/i]
Sorry aracer have I spoiled the homework assignment?
I doubt it - that would require jamba paying attention to what anybody else on here is posting, or anything written anywhere other than a Brexiteer echo chamber.
we will go WTO and not erect a border our side
What does this mean? Anyone know? Nothing I've read as regards how the WTO schedules and tariffs work suggests this is possible. If you're operating under WTO rules, you're keeping a full track of goods crossing your external borders, aren't you? Now, not everything needs checking paperwork/digitalsubmission wise as it crosses into your jurisdiction, but there must be the means to do so such checks, and in some sectors there's a minimum % of shipments that must be physically checked at the border. Or am I mistaken? Jamba?
I'm going to retrain as a smuggler.
I won't even have to be a proper smuggler, I'll just drive a lorry full of whatever is cheaper one side, drive it and offload, and fill it back up with what evers cheaper on that side, to maximise efficiency, you see.
I still haven't been told why WTO is so important. Can't we just sort out our own deals?
A faceless organisation that threatens to put me and my staff out of a job doesn't seem like a good thing.
The sooner we are out of it the better.
Answers please.
surely if there is no need for a border in Ireland , why should there be a border in France ? does it mean all security will be off in Calais and anyone can just enter the uk as long as they can buy a ferry or Eurostar ticket ?
same for Heathrow and all other airports ?
if so , then yes I agree with you Jambalaya , it is a great idea !
Lol.
'we must take control of our borders'
'the EU insist we have a border - the bastards!'
"WTO rules" doesn't actually mean WTO rules to a brexiteer. It's just a magic wand they wave that they think means "we'll do whatever we want". And it goes down pretty well because of course most people haven't a clue what the WTO rules are. So the leaders of the church say "we'll go WTO and it'll be great" and the congregation say, hallelujah.
It's an open question in each case whether the brexiteers in question do understand WTO rules themselves and are just choosing to talk shite, or if they're totally clueless.
As JRM points out in the video I posted the EU can’t borrow money so if we stop sending £1.5bn a month to them in April 2019 they are in a dreadful mess.
Lies. £1.15b after rebate, which doesn't get sent. £783m at worst after £4.4b pa back from the EU.
https://visual.ons.gov.uk/the-uk-contribution-to-the-eu-budget/
I realise that at this magnitude of cash, a few tens of millions here or there dosen't seem much, but when you do this time after time about the numbers, your message is lost in the lie.
Germany has already agreed to cough up most of the shortfall. A non problem then.
The countries needing help are fewer and further between. Remember the PIGS? Well check out GDP growth rates and you'll find that only Greece is still stagnant. Check out debt and you'll find they're all paying down debt. Now have a real laugh and check out private debt to GDP and compare with the UK:
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/private-debt-to-gdp
Click on "MAX" to see teh graph from 1996. On the basis of it's current performance the UK would have been the next country to look to the EU for help as a member of UKIG - United Kingdom, Italy and Greece. Thankfully you're leaving and my taxes won't go to helping you out (add smiley, I can't see any to click).
Edit: here's the other half of the story because some countries aren't as bad as they look:
https://tradingeconomics.com/france/personal-savings
I’m going to retrain as a smuggler.
I’m truely embracing Brexit and was thinking of becoming a pirate, I’m going to get a pirating licence off May and go after a few of those container ships.
Should be ace just like the old days.
Look at the regular “lefty” posters and their ban records.
I’ve been banned once, possibly twice (and perhaps a couple more times way back in the annals). Both a long time ago, and certainly the one that sticks in my mind was a drunken argument about rugby, which I definitely deserved. To the best of my knowledge I’ve received only one warning for my conduct on this thread: for accusing THM of extracting facts from his posterior. Make of that last point what you will.
Zokes the answer is the EU have to budge or unilaterally we will go WTO and not erect a border our side.
Just how many times do you need to be told that the WTO state that such a solution is not acceptable to them? If anyone’s computer is having issues, I fear it is your own.
And as Del highlights, if you’re so anti-borders, why don’t we just get rid of all of them? Do you honestly believe that someone who wants to illegally enter the UK won’t just waltz in via Ireland?
Do you honestly believe that someone who wants to illegally enter the UK won’t just waltz in via Ireland?
When I lived in London there were plenty of people working who were in theory living in Dublin after using up all of their UK visa time... flight to Dublin, bus to Belfast flight back to London.
stolen from a grauniad comment
Brexit: like shooting oneself in the foot and blaming the gun.
Do you honestly believe that someone who wants to illegally enter the UK won’t just waltz in via Ireland?
As Ireland isn't in Shengen illegal immigrants won't find it any easier than at present unless Ireland decides to join Shengen or EU countries decide to put the border back down the English Channel rather than in EU ports. The only border that will change is the NI/ROI border, and in terms of immigration that doesn't change as long as Dublin and London agree on immigration policy. Britain has been able to cut itself off from illegal immigration thanks to the cooperation of its neighbours. Say thank you, pay the bills for Calais and elsewhere, and play fair if you wish that to continue.
As Ireland isn’t in Shengen illegal immigrants won’t find it any easier than at present
Well, not really. If we leave the EU, simply by virtue of FoM ceasing it will be very easy to be an illegal immigrant.
Are people still believing stuff Moggy says?
Much like Johnson used to enjoy, his upper class credentials seem to satisfy his forelock tugging acolytes, but his bullshit is easily exposed with a bit of scrutiny & factchecking
Anyway.
I agree with these guys, tho id be less kind in my language
Are people still believing stuff Moggy says?
He has his audience same as the briefings for brexit lot. Problem is he gets airtime and has other mps agreeing with him.
How so, Zokes? Could you link something to tell me it'll be more complicated than needing a passport rather than an ID card. I'm interested because my passport is French and if I'm to be considered an illegal immigrant if I try to board a boat in Calais, I'd like to know on what basis.
Edit: I was hoping to be a "legal alien".
How so, Zokes? Could you link something to tell me it’ll be more complicated than needing a passport rather than an ID card. I’m interested because my passport is French and if I’m to be considered an illegal immigrant if I try to board a boat in Calais, I’d like to know on what basis.
Right now as an EU citizen you have rights to enter, remain, and work in the UK. If we leave, those rights might not continue at all, or might require a visa of some description. Same reason they don’t exist with many other places outside of the EU.
Clearly I can’t link to something as that would require the UK to actually have a policy in place.
I agree with al that, Zokes. What the conditions of entry will be remains to be seen. And for those already in the UK it's still as clear as mud with May desperately trying to appease both Barnier and the zealots. Have a look at the calculations of what potential current members of Shengen would lose in GDP if they reinstated borders, a lot. The UK already loses out, is a UK government prepared to apply a system that further restricts movement and futher cuts GDP? Does Britain want my cash or not? I suspect it does.
Briatain could have been applying current EU rules to limit EU immigration but it hasn't. I reckon the reason is that despite the posturing even the Tories realise EU miagration is good for business and after a short period of restricting movement reopen the flood gates.
pay the bills for Calais and elsewhere
Isn't international law that you seek asylum in the first safe state you reach?
Given that, harsh and crude [ and indeed unfair] ,its not really a UK issue its an EU issue.
Moggs position is interesting, I am sure deep down he wants to lead the Tory Party but not overly keen on being PM (bit like Corby) he has enough support in the Party to beat Boris etc as he is viewed internally as "clever" and a lot of his personal views are held by many Tory faithfull.
I think he is looking towards the medium term I.e. post brexit/labour elected world to then slide into leader of the opposition - this would suit his upper class/Latin ramblings perfectly.
The last question is he (like Corby) electable and this is a tougher question as his electorate are on the decline (unlike Corby) and if Labour swing the 16 to18 voting issue the Tories are going to struggle to win regardless.
@teeth the rebate is applied a year in arrears. £366m ler week is the gross figure quoted by ONS. Our contribution is variable and growing. I’ll wager you its more like £1.75bn per month by 2019. The EU is screwed without our money and its doing its best to hide the fact. If it dissapeared suddenly due to negotiations reaching a stalemate all hell would break out amongst the 27
@kelvin I have answered this before, you don't collect tariffs at the border. Customs guys don’t collect cheques. All done electronically in advance. Yes there are spot checks (I think on average its 5%) but they can be done away from the border, eg at point of delivery. Techno,ofy like number pkate recognition make all this quite straightforward. Think about it we no longer have tax discs as thats all electronic / number plate recognition.
@Northwind WTO is the globally agreed framework for all trade between members. Free trade agrements are registered with them. US and China are EU’s largest trading partners and both use WTO rules with the EU. As per the economic research I quoted it was the advent of the WTO which did more for UK growth than our EU membership.
Italian election polls suggest 5-star will be by far the largest individual party. Europe and the EU needs to get a grip on its fundamental problems or this is going to end very badly.
Dear Jamba,
Please don't bother to direct posts at me that don't address or relate to any point I've made.
Yours,
Everyone.
The EU is screwed without our money and its doing its best to hide the fact.
You keep saying this. Yet I'm confused because our input to the EU budget, as large as it is, is still relatively small as a proportion of the whole, and as others have said, Germany has already said it will step in to fill in any hole. Conversely, you keep diminishing the impact of a loss of between 30-50% of our trade (your numbers) which is currently within the EU, and suggesting that this is a (temporary) price worth paying.
So, do we contribute more than 30-60% of the EU budget, enough to the point where "all hell would break loose"? Or, will "all hell [also] break loose" in the UK if we exit the single market and lose 30-50% of our export market?
Europe and the EU needs to get a grip on its fundamental problems or this is going to end very badly.
And Brexit helps this how, exactly?
Isn’t international law that you seek asylum in the first safe state you reach?
Yes, and it's an unfair law that places an unfair burden on say Italy. The UK started the wars that destabilised a region but refuses to take its fair share of the people displaced by the continuing conflict.
France does more than it should to prevent immigrants getting to the UK IMO. Britain hasn't even honoured its promise to take 800 under-age migrants.
I can't see the UK government doing anything to stop Brits holidaying abroad. About 70% have passports. Most Europeans don't need a passport, just an ID card does the job within Europe. Impose a passport and at the margin you'll lose tourists as getting one will cost more than the flights and take time.
Again, from the ONS link
Before the UK government transfers any money to the EU a rebate is applied.
Before anybody calls the election results in Italy it would be important to point out that none of the parties campaigned to leave the EU - there are parties who campaigned for reform and economic changes to the EU. The main EU issue for Italy was migration and the burden that Italy shoulders on behalf of the EU - one which the UK hides from despite being at the forefront of some of the causes.
The UK started the wars that destabilised a region but refuses to take its fair share of the people displaced by the continuing conflict.
France does more than it should to prevent immigrants getting to the UK IMO
Point of order. Whilst the UK has been one of the main protagonists, it's far from the only agent here, with France being right up there, especially where Libya is concerned.
Jamba ,I still don’t know why we have to obey the WTO ?
A faceless foreign beauraracy telling me to put my prices up by 30% and probably putting 6 hard working British taxpayers out of a job.
Surely we can make our own deals?
True Zokes. What started as putting line in the sand to save an oil town on the coast and its population ended up with a power vacuum filled by fanatics. One of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. The major difference with Iraq being that there was already conflict in libya and the intervention was intended to stop it. In Iraq it was the gratuitous invasion of a country that had already been disarmed and was cooperating with weapons inspectors.
Critics of the libyan intervention sometimes forget that a civil war was already underway and major escalation was inevitable without intervention - an army was advancing across a desert to attack a town. Whether intervention helped or made the situation worse is up for debate. My persoanl view is that the west would have got drawn into the conflict sooner or later and on the military front the early intervention to keep the sides apart was productive. Less productive was the elimination of Kadafi which handed power to the religious fanatics. And there the Sarkosy-Kadhafi political funding and personal grudges had a role France needs to elucidate.
Techno,ofy like number pkate recognition make all this quite straightforward. Think about it we no longer have tax discs as thats all electronic / number plate recognition.
How's that working out then?
you don’t collect tariffs at the border
I never said that you collect tariffs at the border. I don't think anyone in this thread has.
Border infrastructure is required for checks and enforcement, not for collection.
Anyway Jamba, when will CDS fully replace CHIEF? Before April Fools Day next year? While you're waving you hands in the air about using digital submission more post Brexit, how about you have a look at what that actually means. An over 300% increase in submissions, and the adoption of EU codes once it is an external market, isn't supported by magical thinking. Now… design in any special measures for Ireland… when does that happen? When will they need to be in place?
Yep, both Swiss & Norway/EU & tested Canada/usa' all have infrastructure at the borders, despite various levels of 'technology' being employed.
May has even pledged no cctv at the NI border....
It's amazing how leaving the EU turns out to entail a shit load more red tape than our current setup.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Another Brexit lie exposed there</span>
Techno,ofy like number pkate recognition make all this quite straightforward.
So you are going to have cameras on every crossing point? That will have mysterious accidents when some of the more republican members of the community spots them.
Also to put it into perspective its reckoned there are the best part of a million cars without insurance in the UK despite all that magical technology.
Since the problem is unless you are going to equip those number plate detecting cameras with a 30mm cannon you will still need people there to enforce it.
Be easy enough to get a common car/van and when approaching the border accidentally cover the plates with mud.
[i]kimbers wrote:[/i]
I agree with these guys, tho id be less kind in my language
Though it's fundamentally missing the point: "But at this point a basic question becomes unavoidable: what on earth is she trying to achieve?" - it's obvious what her sole objective is - to remain as PM. Nothing else is at anywhere near as important to her, and in that context everything she's done makes perfectly logical sense.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43285318
I I mentioned in a previous post that THM dismissed as junk, companies are having to make choices on the viability of UK plants and systems now based on the progress of the talks as they stand.
Any changes will take at least a year to implement (for a large business) so April 2018 is the real deadline not April 2019. By the time May has decided what she wants it will already be too late...
I disagree, her priority is to keep the tories in power, her being PM is secondary to that (though currently necessary). So long as the debacle can be blamed on the EU - and we know that a large proportion of the population will lap up that story regardless of the facts - and that the bogeyman of a corbyn govt can be presented as an even bigger threat, it's all going just fine for them. What happens to the country doesn't really concern them.
The 2 above posts capture he Tory right view of the world, they benefit very little from Nissan Sunderland or any form of manufacturing.
They want unregulated financial markets and labour not well paid overseas jobs in car plants.
Moggenomics....
They do face some big obstacles to a new free trade world - keeping Farming alive, keeping Corby out of power, keeping the great unwashed employed, keeping the peace in NI...
The real sad thing is once the heavy and semi heavy industry leaves it won't come back.
It was always clear that other countries would try to woo these away along with so much more which was why the Gov had all that time preparing before issuing article 50.
They are not even making the best out of a bad situation. They do not have leadership, direction (or half the country behind them) so are being pushed around by all the players.
Anyone read anything recently that suggests that the USA isn't going to screw the UK once we are in our weaker position outside the EU?
And… WTO fans… any sign that any block other than the EU is offering support for our tariffs and schedules after Brexit? How reliant on EU backing will we be as regards WTO? Completely, or totally?
And it's not just trade in goods, is it…
Two excellent pieces from Brexit Central
Realities of a customs union
As I said EU are looking to try and leverage Ireland to prevent us freely signing global trade deals
If we are members of a customs union it will likely prevent Corbyn nationalising anything. You must have a competive tender for all “nationalisations”
http://brexitcentral.com/labour-unable-nationalise-rail-new-eu-rules/
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
Two excellent pieces from Brexit Central
You do like your oxymorons 😆
@kelvin the EU is offering its support as its very much in their interests. If UK doesn’t share those tariff free allowances then they are stuck with products they don’t want. We can always negotiate our own new ones. We are trying to be helpful to the EU. I believe we take 75% of the New Zealand lamb.
Sorry Jamba, but you're deluded … "negotiate our own new ones" … with the backing of which block at the WTO? Only the EU stands with us on this and so many other issues… yes that is because it is in their interests as well … but who else will back us? USA? There is so much opportunity for all the other blocks to take advantage of the UK in your favoured "WTO rules" scenario. It really worries me that you, and others that share you position who can actually influence the Brexit process, don't understand the basics of all this.
No - you forgot that this is the thread where you provide unbiased sources to support your opinions if you want to be taken seriously.
I certainly shan't bother reading those, and I doubt anybody else here will - I read the first couple of links from there and it was clear that they're just as deluded as you.
I'm not a Corbyn fan, and partly that is because of he thinks our current agreements with EU countries limit our options as regards public ownership and how public services are provided… what is he expecting when the USA trade deal becomes real…?!? These "global deals" you speak of Jamba will have trade offs, just as any deal with rEU countries (whether as a member or a third country) does. We will be shifting some control from the rEU to national level… only then to have to cede it again (and maybe more) back to them, and to other large trading partners. "Taking control" of food and animal welfare standards, for example, will be oh so temporary, if we want trade deals with any of the larger countries and blocks.
Remainers thread ?
What is Brexit central then, neutral ? Lol
Ref the lamb - the exact opposite is true - 94% of lamb exports are to the EU - what will WE do with the surplus? We will have to stop importing from NZ and eat our own - that might be greener but it is hardly likely to make trade deals with NZ easier when we don`t want their lamb any more.
The Lamb situation is well known - don`t ever bring it up in some brexy dream.
Customs union membership means surrendering all control of our international trade policy
they missed out the bit where DExEUs own analysis reckons that all of the trade deals Fox wants added up equates to an extra 1% of GDP over 10 years! (not even coming close to making up for the loss of CU & SM membership)
are all brexitcentral pieces that bad; unsourced and lacking in any actual analyses or data?
No wonder the negotiations are going so badly if that guy is on the brexit select comittee!
obviously I forgot this is the Remainer thread
People have questioned the articles you have posted in the past. I havent seen you bother to defend them before throwing up the next lot. So they will tend to be ignored especially if you keep using the same shit source.
To take the customs union one. Lots of handwaving and claims without any solid evidence. The normal magic use of "technology". Then his idea of "no physical border". So that will sort out the Calais issue for France.
For the love of god tell me why the WTO is a good thing when it will put prices up in the shops and hard working brItish taxpayers out of jobs.
Brexit is not about answers...
The reason leavers avoid facts is they don't back up their claims. So yes brexit central and briefings for brexit get as much of a look as long lost relatives with Nigerian inheritance and the latest red hot lady who wants to talk to only me emails.
Guardian reports May as saying the govt is "looking closely at" the USA-Canada border as a model for the Irish problem.
Wonder how closely she'll have to look before they see any problems...
