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So, May basically reminding us that she has no clear plan, accept that "we" will require a "time limited" period to prepare for it. Who needs reminding? A year to go before we leave, and not only aren't we prepared for whatever we are replacing membership with, our government still can't outline what that is… even in the most loose of forms, never mind with the detail needed for "us" to prepare for it. Prepare for an utter balls up in a year… hope that in reality it is spread over the next three years… spread the pain… that's as close to a plan as we're going to get for now.
Given such border tech doesn’t yet exist, I doubt it. And given that it must consist of at least some hardware on the border, what happens when the PIRA decide to remove it at night time?
It's not even that. The nature of life on the border is such that almost everyone (no hyperbole) is involved in something "illegal" at some level. Virtually every house on the ROI side of the border has a northern car to avail of cheaper car tax (registered in someone else's name) and virtually everyone on the NI side of the border comes across to get cheaper fuel which they "smuggle" back into the UK and the farmers on both sides seem to be running a million scams. When you consider that many border crossing look like this
you get an idea why it it'll be hard to implement, never mind protect when every local will want to destroy it. The PSNI don't really venture anywhere near the border as you need serious local knowledge to know what side you are on at any given time so they won't be protecting any ANPR cameras either.
So you need to close these roads and install military checkpoints on main roads or everyone will just use back roads, obscure their plates or vandalise the cameras.
Kelvin, you assume that the transition is a done deal. As the Tories have already rolled back on what they said in December is there actually any guarantee that we won't crash out in March next year.
STOP PRESS
"We are leaving the single market, life is going to be different"
Access to each others markets would be "less than it is now," she acknowledged.
She added that the "jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in the UK must end".
So to summarise:
We're ****ed! You know it! We know it! But I'm unbelievably weak and having my policy dictated to me by a bunch of absolute headbangers, so what can we do? Will of the people and all that....
Jamba - how are we going to know if these refugees etc pass thru the NI border without hard border checks
Scottish independence would not have been without its issues although nothing like as bad as thought. I wanted independence so we could have a progressive government of the green / left and never have a tory government again.
100% wrong on citizens rights. Its the UK that have dragged their feet. EU offered a deal immediately and even Mays revised deal is never gong to be acceptable
I love how she pointedly fails to state whether she thinks Brexit is worth the effort when asked by the German journalist.
That's me put of a job then.
Is this a done deal or does it have to get voted on?
just look at the people who are fanatical brexiteers – Rees Mogg? Ian Duncan Smith? John Redwood? Bill Cash? Boris Johnson? Nigel Farage?
FFS! The very idea that these people want anything other than a deregulated, tax haven race to the bottom, to line their own pockets and totally **** over the working classes is utterly ridiculous.
How about the people who were fanatically opposed to Joining the EEC in the first place? Gaitskell, Benn, Castle, Foot... rotters the lot of them, clearly.
How about the people who were fanatically opposed to Joining the EEC in the first place? Gaitskell, Benn, Castle, Foot… rotters the lot of them, clearly.
and Enoch Powell....
classy company i am sure you will agree.
Kelvin, you assume that the transition is a done deal
Not me. Hence saying we should plan for the shit to hit the fan a year from now, but hope a transition period means the shit is smeared more evenly over the next three years. I just pointed out that May was reminding us "we" need a transition period… we're not ready to Leave… her and her government need to have made some key decisions way back in the past… not some way into the future. We all know why the decision making is being kicked closer and closer to the Leave date…
Transition is now looking very unlikely. without a deal on NI or citizens rights there will be no transition and unless May moves a long long way there will be no deal onthese two things
Looks like a bit of Tory infighting. Suspected 5th column work by Scottish Tories to sabotage Brexit.
http://www.bowgroup.org/policy/bow-group-calls-david-mundells-resignation
Without a transition period (of far more than 2 years) we're either in a very, very bad place, or the government has to follow Labour's current policy on a Custom's Union…
https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/969581204893851651
Im in the Welsh Valleys so the ROI would be great. Jambalya, I have an Oz passport but would be the last place on earth i'd want to go.
Mays offer on citizens rights will never fly with the EU as it involves creating two differnt classes of citizens. Its also completely impractical as it would mean 3 different systems for gaining residence rights.
ON NI we still have no solution being offered except magic fairy dust and unicorns
more vague, appeal to both wings of the party, non committal bollox we've become used to. For the Tory Party comes First.
Glad to see May made the same points I have been making here on financial services. European companies and countries come to the UK to borrow money, £1.1 trillion in a single year. They can’t find that elsewhere in Europe, if they want to try the US good luck to them. On “Passporting” she quite rightly said we are not even looking for that. Barnier’s attempt to use Passporting as leverage is a waste of his time
A long but worthwhile read from Mr Dunt (again):
<p dir="ltr">So here we are again. Another Brexit speech from the prime minister, another inch further down the road to nowhere. Her glacial transformation from fairy tale to economic disaster continues. Watching her over the last 18 months has been like seeing a children's animation turn into a bleak kitchen sink drama. She began with gusto and passion, promising that Britain could have all the trade it wanted - "the exact same benefits", to use David Davis' phrase, outside the single market and customs union as inside. Britain would call the shots, because it buys cars. We wouldn't pay any money to Europe and would walk out if they kept insisting on it.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Then slowly the compromises came. The Florence speech saw her repeat, almost word-for-word, Brussel's requirements on the budget, like a hostage reading out a statement written by their kidnapper. That kept talks on the road. This time she was faced with the universal calls for clarity on her position, which now came from three directions - Brussels, the hard Brexiters and the Remainers. A pretty formidable coalition, united at last in their desire to know what the hell was going on.</p>
<p dir="ltr">The choice is simple. If Britain keeps all its control it must give up its trade. But if it wants to keep all its trade, it must lose some control. This is not because Brussels is mean or vengeful. It is because it facilitates open borders on the basis that they are all part of the same legal system, with the same monitoring and enforcement bodies operating amid the same institutions. The UK is leaving those arrangements and consequences follow from that. At the moment, Britain looks like a teenager telling his parents he is leaving the house, but still demanding they drive over and cook his meals.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Rhetorically at least there was some improvement. May said the border in Ireland must stay completely open - a welcome confirmation given Boris Johnson's now stated views to the contrary. She admitted that there would be a loss of access to the single market due to her policies. She accepted that the European Court of Justice (ECJ), which she foolishly made a red line in late 2016, would probably still have a role in British law. Her criticisms of the EU were often fair. She was right to say, for instance, that they should not be demanding the regulatory standards of a Norway deal while offering the benefits of a Canada one. She will have earned some points for signing up to EU rules on state aid - although made the likelihood of a Labour rebellion on the final deal more likely.</p>
<p dir="ltr">And she did bring clarity. It's just that it wasn't on the choice between trade and control. It was clarity on her own fantasy about not having to make the choice.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Yes, she has given up on the idea that you can have your cake and eat it. But she still believes that she can take all the chocolate off the other slices and put it on hers, only for the EU to smile magnanimously and offer her some more helpings.</p>
<p dir="ltr">It is a nonsense. It is not going to happen. May is peddling furiously now, but it is down a path which everyone has already warned her leads to a dead end.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Her Florence plan was for three baskets. There would be one part of the economy where the UK would harmonise its regulations with the EU. Another part would align, so that it had the same standards but reached them in its own way. And a third part would diverge. Harmonisation was for things like aviation and chemicals, where the UK would seek associate membership of EU agencies. Alignment was for goods, where regulatory standards would remain "substantially" the same in future and checked off by an independent arbiter, with a consequent loss of market access if they decided it was no longer up to scratch. And divergence was for things like agriculture and fisheries, which could go their own way.</p>
<p dir="ltr">To this she added one final basket - "creative solutions". This was for things like financial services, where there was no precedent for what she was trying to achieve. She knows she needs something that looks like harmonisation, but she can't allow the rules to be set outside of UK control for such a major sector. So her solution is to basically throw up her hands and say: 'Help me'.</p>
<p dir="ltr">If you are trying to come up with a half-in-half-out plan, this actually isn't bad. You'd expect this level of detail towards the end of 2016 rather than the start of 2018, but the substance is okay. You can see why No.10 has picked the sectors it has for each basket.</p>
<p dir="ltr">The trouble is that the half-in-half-out plan cannot work. The EU has said it does not work. For her to pursue it now is like spending days thinking about interior design for a building which is due to be demolished. If one country can take all the lovely bits and none of the troublesome bits, then everyone will do the same. European freedoms are based on establishing trust and that trust is earned by entwining yourself in the legal structure of the EU. But May has squandered that trust by spendfing 18 months berating Remainers, making threats to the EU, talking meaningless twoddle about non-existent options, and allowing her ministers to issue colourful attacks on Brussel's founding principles. She has let them go for over a year with no idea what she wants. Of all the things she has, trust isn't one of them.</p>
<p dir="ltr">The irony is that her three market model isn't actually all that different to the existing EEA agreement enjoyed by Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. After all, they are in EU agencies. They have their own Efta court decide whether they are sticking to the EU regulations, but otherwise they maintain autonomy. They can veto new EU regulations, which has the consequence of extracting them from the relevant part of the EEA agreement, a system which is similar to how May imagined her alignment basket operating. They have areas - again, like May, agriculture and fisheries - where they have nothing to do with the EU.</p>
<p dir="ltr">But this is based on an arrangement where countries want to work together to find solutions. It is one where they accept all the responsibilities of the EU - including, yes, free movement - as a way of getting all the freedoms. Far from butting heads, the Efta court and the ECJ have increasingly begun taking each others judgements as precedents, in a much more egalitarian relationship than any British political analyst would have predicted. None of the countries involved have ever triggered that veto. Why? It's partly because they don't want to lose access to the market. But it's also because these countries operate collegiately as part of a shared initiative. They are not stuck in the mire of emotional identity politics and reactionary nationalism, in which cooperation with other countries is seen principally through the prism of 19th Century naval warfare. Basically, they have not gone mad.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Britain basically has gone mad and in its spasm of anti-social behaviour it has settled on a plan which gives it everything it wants and none of the things it does not want. That is as far away from the pragmatic and workmanlike solutions of the EEA agreement as you're likely to get.</p>
<p dir="ltr">The EU response, which is not unfair given the circumstances, is that, well - Brexit means Brexit. If you don't want the rights and responsibilities then you're looking at an old-school goods-only trade deal, like Canada's. Probably they will find one single, solitary plus to stick on the end - some kind of moderate compromise on financial services, which manages to ease the concerns of several member states about access to London and offer May something to sell back home. It'll be devastating and self-harming to sabotage Britain;s trading prospects with such a deal, but that is the direction of travel.Today's speech was probably the last chance to change course, no matter how unlikely that was to happen. The fact she chose not to suggest that is now our final destination. It is not a good one. The next months will be very rough.</p>
How about the people who were fanatically opposed to Joining the EEC in the first place? Gaitskell, Benn, Castle, Foot… rotters the lot of them, clearly.
Not wanting to leap into the unknown, without any guarantees of what you'll gain, seems perfectly rational.
Now that we're in the EU and it's clear what we stand to lose, it seems very odd to want to leap into the unknown without any guarantees of what we'll gain.
FFS The Mash doesn't even look like satire anymore.
Not wanting to leap into the unknown, without any guarantees of what you’ll gain, seems perfectly rational.
Exactly. I am a remainer but if we were not in the EU I doubt I would vote to join. Wanting to leave what you are already part of is not the same as joining something you are not part of.
Why do your friends in Paris not just send their kids to the local school, Jamba? Seems a pity not to learn a language and get a Bac. Madame has kids in some of her classes from Germany and the UK whose parents work for an oil major. The school provides extra English tuition and they soon fit in. A friend had kids who wanted to go through British universities, the Bac was accepted no problem. Junior's Bac and Arbitur were worth all the A*s he could have got in the UK as far as Universities were concerned, and being trilingual is hardly a handicap in life.
former permanent secretary at the Treasury
https://twitter.com/nickmacpherson2/status/969581340952809472
up to you of course but remember France, Germany, Holland and Italy have larger portions of their populations voting for FN, AfD , Freedom Party or 5-star than the UK ever had for UKIP. Much higher, more like double.
Really? UKIP got 25% of the vote in enfgland at times. which country has a anti europe far right neofascist party with 50% of the vote?
Glad to see May made the same points I have been making here on financial services. European companies and countries come to the UK to borrow money, £1.1 trillion in a single year. They can’t find that elsewhere in Europe
Explain to me how we are able to be so competitive when it comes to lending.
former permanent secretary at the Treasury
Are you suggesting that is his reaction to the speech?
Explain to me how we are able to be so competitive when it comes to lending.
Liquidity and competition
I’d hoped for some way in which she might say leaving was better than staying. I wouldn’t believe her of course, but I’d love for her to have tried. But no, nothing. She really does let you Tory boys down again and again.
She's after "the best possible Brexit"… I admire her determination to avoid matching the Brexit Bonus lies of some of her ministers (and the leader of the opposition). I won't thank her for willingly damaging the country, and blaming "the people" for making her do it, but the lack of straight out lies is refereshing.
But no, nothing. She really does let you Tory boys down again and again.
Not really they just here it's all amazing and we can't think of anything better, she could read Winnie the Pooh badly and they would cheer her as being awesome
she shoots she scores....
Remainers and Leavers join hands and do a Mexican wave.
err
Well that was another Classic May few more new sound bites rocked on cue.
dunno why everyones acting surprised, we all knew it'd be a huge balls up.
Rank Populism doesn't, and can't, deliver.
Are you suggesting that is his reaction to the speech?
the one they widely briefed the media about the content prior to deivery
What do you think its about if not that then?
I saw a thing on my FB feed today saying that every British PM in the last 40 years has been pro-EU and thinks Britain is better in.
I wonder what Jambalaya makes of that?
had enough of experts?
TJ you should like this piece. Bighlights how incompetent May and Hammond (delay/lack of no deal prep funding) have been in managing the negotiations. Sky said yesterday how the government now acknowledge their acceptance of the EU’s “scheduling” of talks has been a mistake (obvious from the beginning to anyone with half a brain)
http://commentcentral.co.uk/the-eu-has-us-bent-over-a-barrel/
I saw a thing on my FB feed today saying that every British PM in the last 40 years has been pro-EU and thinks Britain is better in.
I wonder what Jambalaya makes of that?
Worth remembering that every British PM in the last 40 years has also been pro-nuclear deterrent, pro-privatisation of the public sector, pro-military intervention in Iraq and pro-public sector pay restraint.
Presumably you putting them forward as paragons of good judgment indicates they were right about all those things too?
tumbleweed pic goes here
The opening line of your link.
The EU has recognised that the May Government will be prepared to pay any price to prevent a General Election and the risk of a Marxist Corbyn Government, says Peter Divey.
I see why it appealed to you
Its not news to know that the EU hold the cards and dictate terms nor is it news that May is weak, her govt divided and her ability to negotiate diminished to non existent. I am surprised all these right wingers did not under stand basic economics and relied on hubris. Easiest deal in history apparently.
We all said this would happen- its not a surprise
Worth remembering that every British PM in the last 40 years has also been pro-nuclear deterrent, pro-privatisation of the public sector, pro-military intervention in Iraq and pro-public sector pay restraint.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Read it before Jamba - and totally disagree with the basic premises.
It was obvious that theis is how it would play out. especially given theEU sidee like to prepare with detail and legal advise and the tories simply make vague statements without any preparation hence Mays most recent speech saying " we want this and that" when " this and that" is either not possible under EU law or previously ruled out as unnacceptable
For example the NI position is simply the EU following the GFA - something the tories forgot to do
It has become comical now.
The EU position has been crystal clear and logical ever since we invoked a 50.
The UK government has been talking complete nonsense ever since.
That's where we are now, no further in negotiations, but completely discredited in the eyes of the world for demanding things that would never be on the table.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Unless it's digital, then it's totally ****ed all the time, and completely useless. At which point it needs replacing but no-one wants to just yet.
TJ you should like this piece. Bighlights how incompetent May and Hammond (delay/lack of no deal prep funding) have been in managing the negotiations. Sky said yesterday how the government now acknowledge their acceptance of the EU’s “scheduling” of talks has been a mistake (obvious from the beginning to anyone with half a brain)
From that article "Germany and France have decided that now is the time for confrontation. Legal text in the withdrawal agreement will be uncompromising and will allow no leeway for a preferred UK technical solution concerning the Irish border. ...The EU is pushing the UK border into the Irish Sea. It is the only solution that will avoid a “hard” border on the island of Ireland. Full regulatory alignment or nothing. ....The de-facto break up of the UK should be intolerable to all, not just the DUP."
Curious as to how other forum users feel about that statement? I understand why Northern Irish unionists would feel aggrieved, they might feel less British if they were subject to greater regulatory allignment with the EU/ROI (although they are happy to diverge from UK laws if it persecutes gays, atheists or Nationalists) but how does the average English, Scottish or Welsh person feel? Do you care? Northern Ireland is just a money pit for the UK economy and it's heavily reliant in EU funding.
A hard border would certainly result in some resurgence in terrorist activity and cost millions to police. Conversely a Island Ireland customs border would only make the whole island more attractive to investors and and it could be huge for tourism, one of the biggest industries.
IMHO its just the last British colony left
unfortunately the Ulster plantation was such a success that 400 years later their offspring remain the most loyal of all the British to the crown...would imagine they would declare war on us and Ireland if we "leave them" to a united Ireland
The losing of NI does not worry me we should have done so centuries ago and its not quite 100 years since we ignored the a ireland vote , invaded and partitioned the country to create NI
That said decades of war/terrorism is the inevitable outcome of rewriting histories wrongs so its not something i would actively seek or want.
I think its completely stupid to have any border north south or east west. The whole border issue is one of Mays making with her ridiculous red lines.
two simple solutions have been ruled out by May. Stay in the customs union or cancel the whole nonsense
also there is a total falsehood there. the EU draft does not rule out a technological solution. It merely puts the onus quite rightly on May to come up with one.
TJ you could interpret May’s remarks on the birder two ways - she said we would help the EU find a solution rather than simply saying “we won’t put up a border our side and what you do is up to you”. One way of seeing that is that its a real option which clearly has been discussed, “rejected” by May (so far) but an option
There is nothing ridiculous with May’s red lines, the basics of leaving the EU are no single market and no customs union.
Anyway .. Mogg the Week 🙂
The red lines are ridiculous partly at least because it makes sticking to the GFA impossible while keeping the DUP on side
~the EU have a solution that May has agreed to - no regulatory divergance
TJ you could interpret May’s remarks on the birder two ways – she said we would help the EU find a solution
The EU already have a solution which has already been agreed by May and the U.K. Government, that if there's no acceptable solution there will be a common regulatory agreement between north and south and no border. It's up to maybot to provide an acceptable alternative, it's not that difficult a concept.
Curious as to how other forum users feel about that statement?
I favour a united Ireland, I have no issue with the north being returned.
I would genuinely like to see the UK broken up and would have liked to have seen that happen within the context of the EU. The answer in NI should at least involve a border poll. Hard brexit would seem to make union of NI and ROI more likely.
junkyard
unfortunately the Ulster plantation was such a success that 400 years later their offspring remain the most loyal of all the British to the crown…would imagine they would declare war on us and Ireland if we “leave them” to a united Ireland
I think there would be less than 10,000 people who would be genuinely sympathetic to that. Probably less the 5,000 in reality and maybe 100 - 500 actual loyalist terrorists. But the thing is there would be no need to change anything from a NI perspective. Stormont could still govern (or not) the six counties, British/Irish citizens could still retain their chosen identities and everyone in NI could still avail of billions in aid from the EU.
NI voted remain. So NI citizens would be getting exactly what the majority of NI voters wanted. They'd be remaining.
the EU have a solution that May has agreed to – no regulatory divergance
No, don’t forget the important caveat:, it applies only to: “those rules of the internal market and the customs union which, now or in the future, support North-South co-operation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement”.
Very clearly a caveat that means it does not apply to everything. So, which issues does it apply to? There’s wriggle room enough to drive a bus through the middle of that.
UK can happily exclude almost anything they like...
Correct its not on everything - just on almost everything. Manufactured goods, food, electricity, gas, etc etc Not really an wriggle room and if May trys to backtrack from that then its no transition, hardest of hard brexits and the blame firmly at her door
PMs being “pro-EU” .. well that’s because they are working on a 5yr Parliamentary term so always looking at the short term, certainly a number of them have tried to get reforms, Thatcher on the rebate, Blair/Brown declining to join the euro (thank God) , Cameron trying to resist arch Superstater Junker’s appointment. Then we have lifetime eurosceptic wouldbe PM Corbyn
Yes the EUs stance is totally logical, weaponise the border to try and restrict the UKs ability to do global trade deals
TJ yup if we get a WTo Brexit at 1-5 months notice thats entirely her fault. We should have set (say) a 12 month cutoff, ie now March 2018, if no transition/trade deal agreed then we are WTO
We want transition by March 18 and trade by Oct 18 but EU are stalling stalling for transition by Oct 18 and trade by ... well by never really ... just keep delaying and trying get more and more MONEY.
a 12 month cutoff, ie now March 2018, if no transition/trade deal agreed then we are WTO
Which countries WTO only model are you suggesting there?
So, Jamby, if you go to WTO how are you going to implement the required border with Ireland / EU and keep peace / the GFA alive. Remember the former head of the WTO said you can't just put your fingers in your ears and sing la,la,la at the top of your voice, WTO means UK has to implement a border.
EU are not stalling. They have had everything prepared and ready to start negotiations. EU side have a draft legal text of Decembers agreement ready. May and co haven't. May and co could have taken the initiative by creating their own draft legal text first - but they cannot because she cannot get the cabinet to agree on a settled position and cannot cbe confident of getting anything thru parliament.
EU side are waiting for May and Co and have been since triggering article 50. We still do not even have an agreed starting position for negotiations from May - and WTO means hardest of hard borders in NI run by the UK
This whole affair could only become more comical if we decide after Brexit to change the nation's name to Jinsy.
Correct its not on everything – just on almost everything. Manufactured goods, food, electricity, gas, etc etc
How about a citation rather than an opinion please TJ
unless of course you’re suggesting that there are going to be smugglers daisy chaining 13A extension cords over the border to corner the supply in black market electricity 😄
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
"The de-facto break up of the UK should be intolerable to all, not just the DUP.”
</div>
WT actual F? So we'll just ignore the roughly 50% of Scottish voters who voted to break up the UK, and that only 55% of NI residents want to stay in the UK. Never mind the Welsh,the mental Cornish, and all the English people who said they want Scotland to leave
unless of course you’re suggesting that there are going to be smugglers daisy chaining 13A extension cords over the border to corner the supply in black market electricity
If it's cheaper in the ROI, what makes you think they won't?
I was speaking to a chap who lives in a new house built onthe border. Front door in NI, back door in the republic. gonna be tricky for him
Ninfan - single market on the island of ireland in energy. Its completely integrated
https://www.uregni.gov.uk/news-centre/new-cross-border-single-electricity-market-goes-live
142 areas of cross border co operation some almost impossible to unpick]
analysis of the issues in NI
PMs being “pro-EU” .. well that’s because they are working on a 5yr Parliamentary term so always looking at the short term,
Can you explain that? I mean sure, leaving the EU might be long term project, but suggesting that the only reason it's not pursued is because of short termist governments, doesn't make any sense.
Yes the EUs stance is totally logical, weaponise the border to try and restrict the UKs ability to do global trade deals
Are you saying the EU should not protect its borders? Seriously?
I was speaking to a chap who lives in a new house built onthe border. Front door in NI, back door in the republic. gonna be tricky for him
Were you speaking to my neighbour?? What county? I've mentioned the chap who built his house on the site of the old British Customs house.....probably not ideal either.
Jimjam - it was actually somone on a helpline for what I forget. got to nattering with him
@mikesmith as you well know we will have the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name then new arrangements with Australia, NZ, Japan and the US. All in short order. Even the EU once it pulled its finger out concluded the Canada deal in 2 years. The first 6 where wasted arguing about dispute resolution organisations. Remember we have a massive balance of trade deficit, biggest in the EU. We are a very big customer for a lot of countries. Their trade deals with the EU will look less attractive once we leave.
@jimjam that was my point on “smuggling” the UK for its part currently just turns a blind eye for the sake of peace in Ireland. We could just do the same once we leave. May says she will do more and work with the EU but for me you can interpret her words as meaning we can just keep doing the same post Brexit. We won’t put up a border.
~Why willwe have the same trade deals as we have now as a part of the EU? My understanding is that is not possible without the agreement of both the EU and the other country
New arrangements? Takes 5- 10 years to sort out.
as you well know we will have the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name then new arrangements with Australia, NZ, Japan and the US. All in short order.
Why would any country not take advantage of the UK position to renegotiate? Do you have these facts in writing? This is not the wto position you keep banging on about, being without deals for 5 to 10 years is.
the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name
🤔
Oh dear ninfan, burned (or rather electrocuted) by TJ.
💡⚡️😵⚡️💡
@mikesmith as you well know we will have the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name
How? Where has this been agreed? Why on the earth wouldn’t each and every one of those countries seek to renegotiate a better deal than they could with the EU now they’re the ones mostly in a position of power.
then new arrangements with Australia, NZ, Japan and the US. All in short order.
Ditto. And not that I can speak to the US, NZ or Japan perspectives, but the Australian one on trade with the UK is very clear. They feel they were cut loose when we joined the single market and moved away from preferential treatment of the ex-colonies. There’s certainly not the fawning for the old dart that a jingoistic Pom would expect. And in any case, Australia has a small population literally half the world away. It’s never going to be that significant for trade.
Even the EU once it pulled its finger out concluded the Canada deal in 2 years. The first 6 where wasted arguing about dispute resolution organisations.
So remind me: how efficiently are the Brexit negotiations going, and whose fault is that? The EU has had a position on the issue for over a year. The UK still doesn’t know what its position is.
I like "As you well know" as a tactic though.
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
@mikesmith as you well know we will have the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name
cite
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wheres-teamhurtmore/page/3/#post-8201013 😆
I like “As you well know” as a tactic though.
Yes, I chuckled at that too. Bless.
jambalaya as ever the dissembler.
As you well know the border question is significant if the UK goes or is forced into for your chosen WTO and the government can't just ignore the UK border. As you well know you've been asked repeatedly to explain how this will work but ignored the question.
Could you detail the smuggling from RoI HMRC currently turns a blind eye to?
as you well know we will have the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name then new arrangements with Australia, NZ, Japan and the US. All in short order.
That's cheared me up. Especially coming from a "we should just revert to WTO rules" misbeliever. A proper chuckle. I like to picture you enjoying posting it to, I hope you did.
Read this recently, to help get my head around both what the USA will want to squeeze us on, and issues for us trading with our large and local neighbour post Brexit…
https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/files/reports/2017/NTE/2017%20NTE.pdf#page147