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Yep thats not aged well- farage now saying he doesnt want a transition after Neil points out he did then & using that as his argument to counter the video
no hyopicrisy there!!
James McGregory obviously not up to the Neil treatment, however none of neils points negate the things that the leavers claimed, ie that we could stay in the SM after Brexit, whatever caveats they added on
They're all just winging it, and making it up as they go along.
And doing it really, really really badly.
I can't remember ever witnessing this level of total, utter and complete incompetence by any other administration, in this country or any other. God knows what the final car crash is going to look like. It just gets worse by the day. They're utterly ****ing clueless and seem to be living in some kind of parallel universe.
Totally agree with this piece in the Guardian yesterday by Zoe Williams. To all intents and purpose the government has totally ceased to function
I see Maybot has conceded on EU citizens rights during transition
worrying for NI as so far the gov has conceded on every demand EU has made
scheduling (supposedly row of summer)
divorce bill (DD didnt recognise a figure of 10s of billions)
NI border fallback (that gov signed up to b4 xmas, now upset its in writing) Johnson was humiliated in HOC today, running away to jeers before he could answer the urgen Q on his leaked letter
EU citizens rights....
tbh binners considering how utterly inept they all seem, Im amazed the country is doing as well as it is!
I am curious as to what you think that means. Since, in case you forgot, his side lost which would indicate people didnt necessarily listen to his arguments.
Whereas the rabid nutters were promising all things to all people and saying anyone saying otherwise was project fear
Wait, you’re literally complaining because you chose to believe what Nigel Farage said instead of the Prime Minister of Great Britain?
worrying for NI as so far the gov has conceded on every demand EU has made
Not that much of a worry, as NI voted to remain May caving in to the EU will be consistent with the wishes of the people there. Will expose the DUP as money grabbing chancers but then again the RHI scandal already did so not that big a surprise
Wait, you’re literally complaining because you chose to believe what Nigel Farage said instead of the Prime Minister of Great Britain?
Ermm no. Its not a difficult concept so I am not sure why you are struggling with it. Unless you are trying to reinforce the stereotype about brexiteers?
[i]ninfan wrote:[/i]
Fake news again?
You obviously missed that Open Britain video getting the full Brillo treatment aracer:
😆 - you're so utterly predictable and easily triggered!
You reckon some of those people didn't say the things in that video?
I know how you hate to be picky, but you were doing "what we were actually told before the referendum" and that video is undeniably compiled of things we were told before the referendum, whatever Brillo's interpretation might be.
Though whilst on the subject of fake news, what are your thoughts on Moggy tweeting that bit from the Sun? Here's a link to the original article:
Another day, another humiliation for May
Her foreign secretary jeered from parliament
Jolly John Major completely undermining her by dissecting her deluded approach to Brexit so far....
Kimbers - doing well? Seriously. I’d be interested to hear other people’s anecdotal evidence as opposed to bullshit statistics.
as a freelance designer we’re a good barometer of how things are really going in the economy, as our work is normally the first thing to get cut when things get tight.
I haven’t seen it this quiet since the immediate aftermath of the banking crisis. It is absolutely dead! I just had a 4 month contract, working on European stuff, shelved with no warning. Just had the plug pulled at the last minute. And everyone else in the industry I talk to is saying the same.....
The economy is grinding to a halt. I I know full well who and what is to blame for thisI can’t believe that people are so dense that they didn’t think this would be inevitable
striking pie in the sky trade deals with Africa? That’s not much ****ing use to me right now! The whole thing is a total shambles, and the damage has already started
what are other people’s real world experiences. Never mind the politics, what’s it like on the ground for you in the middle of this farce?
Em, I'm unemployed. So, dicks up bums
Nice to hear Das Furhur get another kicking in PMQ, her retaliation sounded like she was sweating profusely and re-reading the the script card.
And the “all hails” when BloHard left the chamber when it was just about to come crumbling down on top of him.
Flatulant oaf.
Is their anyone left in the country who doesn’t regard the self-serving shit-sack Boris Johnson with utter contempt?
Is their anyone left in the country who doesn’t regard the self-serving shit-sack Boris Johnson with utter contempt?
The man himself obvs
Couple in here I reckon.
As for how the country looks? A he'll of a lot more pound shops and pawn/second hand/cash converter stuff
A widening divide between rich and poor and a squeeze on many others.
How's it for me? Pending unemployment, I work in the defence sector, MOD has a £20Bn going on £40Bn hole in its accounts, but DExEU is consuming all Government effort and everything else is falling apart. I'm taking a favourable redundancy deal now because there's a chance it won't be around in a few years. Even the people in Whitehall are walking around shaking their heads because the 'grown ups' are running around like headless chickens.
Brexit chickens coming home to roost. NI remains the major sticking point with no viable solution other than NI stays in the customs union and a hard border in the Irish sea or the whole UK stays in the customs union
Government closer to collapse each day. DUP will not tolewrate a hard border in the Irish sea - they would pull the giovernment down first. Sensible tories will not tolerate failing to sign up to the legal stuff for leaving as that would mean no transition with the huge costs and chaos that would cause.
there is nothing here May can do to command a parliamentarty majority and if as she has threatened to do she makes it a confidence issue the the government will fall
Just b4 Xmas may was facing a leadership challenge if she didn't deliver so after near humiliation at the last minute she got the DUP on board & got her phase 1 agreement, now it's written up the Tories throwing a shitfit, bunch of clowns.
If May had pursued a soft Brexit from the start, she could've brought the 48% & parliament on board.
Instead it was citizens of nowhere & out of ECJ, CU, SM, even EURATOM ffs!
She could've taken the obvious message from her humiliation at the election that hard Brexit didn't have a mandate......
I’m one of the 48% and there is no way I would have suppperted ANY Brexit.
I am simply not that narrow minded.
This shithole government can implode upon stakes for all I care, they’re just self serving morons and should be held to account in the courts for treason.
I await that day, a day coming soon I hope.
There was a good item in the Irish independent today discussing that if the dup back maybot to try and force a hard border SF should drop their abstentionism and vote in Westminster to sink them. Would need a major volte face but there were positives for SF in it. The whole situation is majorly f'ed
.... and still she keeps digging
Would need a major volte face but there were positives for SF in it.
with the added bonus of sending the daily fail and it's readership into complete apoplectic melt down.
@duckman I started a thread about “chlorine” washed chicken, ius nit a big deal to me. Ive eaten plenty when living in the US and as I said we in the UK wash pre-prepared salad in chlorine. My point is that the EU has been kicking the can down the road on this for a while, it well knows its the best practical solution to hygine issues. It will come sooner of later so all this nonsense about US chicken is just that. As I said the EU is about to approve hormones in beef.
Poland has a problem with chicken as well as being in breach of EU animal welfare rules on Pork prodiction (along with 5 others) something the EU deliberatey turns a blind eye to.
@kimbers, indeed a strange move but I suppose with EU immigration numbers falling May feels its a small cost to pay, a cheap give. What I read is they will be allowed to stay 5 years but they won’t have the same rights as those before Mar-2019, eg they cannot bring family.
@TJ our solution to Ireland will be just have no physical border. Its the EU which has a problem, or more strictly Ireland who is the most exposed to the UK of the EU27. As Boris pointed out they have electronic customs on much of the US / Canadian border. The EU is very cynically using Ireland to keep us in some kind of customs union as that stops us freely signing new trade deals as every new trade deal will mean less business for the EU. Hence them trying to tie us up. Also they sell us £80bn pa more in actual goods so they know the customs/tariff issue is in our favour. Remeber too we keep any tariffs whereas EU countries have to send 80% to Brussels. Big conflict there between Brussels and countries like France and Holland.
SF will never vote in Westminster as to do so they have to swear allegence to the Queen first.
We can’t force a hard border on the Irish side, only the EU can do that. We won’t put one our side as quite simply there is no need.
I started a thread about “chlorine” washed chicken, ius nit a big deal to me. Ive eaten plenty when living in the US and as I said we in the UK wash pre-prepared salad in chlorine.
It's been pointed out countless times that this isn't the issue. You insist on ignoring what you've been told and keep repeating your same non-point. This is why you have zero credibility, and nobody gives any weight at all to anything you say.
That's the rub isn't it, take their seats and inflict major damage on uk government and save NI from a brexit that was rejected by the population. Or sit back and face criticism for doing so even though they're elected on an abstention stand. It's a big step but as mentioned in the article it's been done before by de Valera.
iirc a hard border will be a requirement of uk getting wto terms so we'll be implementing
"Some in the UK argue that the UK can leave the border open after Brexit, charging no tariffs and making no inspections, and dare the European Union to be the first to put up customs posts. Would this actually work?
No. If it did not charge tariffs on imports from the EU, a post-Brexit UK would break the rules of the World Trade Organization, which operates on a “most-favoured nation” (MFN) principle of equal treatment."
so you don't understand the scheme you favour?
OK May wouldn't have made the 48% true believers with the blind faith of so many brexies, but she'd have given us a lot less to remoan about.
Instead she chose to appease the swivel-eyed & shes ****ing up the whole thing.
More good news from Toyota of course. New model Auris production confirmed for the life of the vehicle and increased UK component sourcing too (as per Nissan) - both make sense with lower £ making up for any potentail tariffs. If tariff free trade agreed its then an even bigger win for Toyota.
Jamba - and as has been pointed out to you the Canada border is actually a hard border with fully staffed posts.
The UK government agreed to NI and the republic having no trade barriers as a back stop. The UK government have not come up with any other solutions so we revert to the back stop position - which is no regulatory divergence on the island or ireland. This is absolutely obvious to anyone reading the text of the agreement.
Its th UK that wants the border - remember " taking control of our borders"
So plese describe how we can have a non physical border? ie how we can keep the promises made to the Republic
Good news for UK, indeed
If you ignore the bribe that the government will be paying, 😉
Or more likely just accepting that we will be staying in CU as Corbyn told may
After all govs preferred option means a 5% hit to uk to GDP according to DExEUs own impact assessments!
Let’s also not dismiss the head of Toyota who commented today that whilst they will go ahead with production of a new model, they will rely upon smooth trading agreements similar to that they have today within the EU.. and 80% of thier model range gets exported to ... the EU.
So, they have the get out clause in place already.. they’ve just made it public.
Hooray for Toyota, oh hang on a sec;
Without doubt, it's good news for Toyota's UK plants. But an announcement like this was always likely.
Toyota has already spent more than £2.5bn in this country, far more than at any of its other European bases. That's not the kind of investment you turn your back on.
Last year, it said it would spend £240m preparing Burnaston to build a new generation of cars. This is the first of those new models.
The company is portraying its decision as a vote of confidence in the UK. But it comes with a warning: continued free and frictionless trade with Europe will be vital for future success.
In other words, it is firmly committed to the UK for now. But that commitment is not open-ended or unconditional.
Id almost look forward to the toyota coup where they take over and implement lean and efficienct decision making with a little samurai justice for the loons
Didn't theresa have a private meeting with toyota a bit back to bribe them with tax payers money into staying for a bit longer ?
And they've still got cold feet.
Not good.
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SF will never vote in Westminster as to do so they have to swear allegence to the Queen first.
We can’t force a hard border on the Irish side, only the EU can do that. We won’t put one our side as quite simply there is no need."
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So from your stand point we should be out of the EU, customs union and no free movement of people but we do not need any kind of border control at the only land border we have with the EU....
How on earth are you expecting to control the flow of goods and people into the country? Or is this not one of the key aspects of the reason to leave?
In other news http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43223175
Maplin close 🙁 while Brexit may not take all the responsibility it was one of the final nails...
our solution to Ireland will be just have no physical border. Its the EU which has a problem,
Errrr. So you’re happy with us having a border that we have no control over? I know some brexiteers are at ludicrous pains to demonstrate that their vote was nothing to do with immigration, but c’mon that stretches even the most liberal credulity.
Let’s hypothecate a scenario where Ireland says it will take in 1m refugees then houses them not so far away from the border. Still happy with no border control?
Maplin close 🙁 while Brexit may not take all the responsibility it was one of the final nails…
Was it ****.
Maplin's failure had nothing to do with Brexit.
They had a good business, they changed it for the worse, they caved.
So the collapse of the pound, which drove import prices up, had nothing to do with brexit? The fall in consumer confidence leading to a 5 year low in retail spending had nothing to do with brexit?
There's always many things that lead to a business failing, and brexit is a handy excuse, but it seems pretty absurd to say it's nothing to do with brexit.
You offer nothing but strawmen.
What, of the things you mention, have anything to do with the changing direction of Maplin?
Nothing.
Sweet Fanny Adams.
It was a mistake to rejoin the entrenched opinions of this thread. As big a mistake as it was for Maplin to change their business model.
What a randomly aggressive response... I never suggested that those things i mentioned had anything to do with Maplin's business direction, I don't know why you'd say that? But they certainly affected its viability.
Though it seems the thing that's actually driven them out of business is the inability to fund their borrowing- which seems weird, because most of their borrowing is with their owner, Rutland, who were taking 15% interest on their £90m-ish of lending. The reporting is contradictory but by most accounts, Maplin were making a loss only because of those repayments.
It was a mistake to rejoin the entrenched opinions of this thread.
No, your mistake was basing your argument on absolutism. In Maplin’s case there probably were more important factors than Brexit implicated in its demise, but it would be foolish to dismiss Brexit completely given its well known impact on both the cost of imports and consumer confidence.
So Toyota has decided to investt the minimum in the UK to keep its models made there compatible with it's new global platforms. Meanwhile in France they are expnading. I posted this pages back.
Jamba ,why doy you want us to be part of the WTO?
Just another faceless abbreviation telling us what do . Before all this kicked off I’d never heard of them , I never voted for them.
It’s about time we took back control of our trade and tell them to **** off.
It’s a red white and blue cake and the hard working British taxpayers should be the ones eating it.
Further trips beyond the looking glass...
https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2018/03/01/jacob-rees-mogg-called-john-major-elite-9-replies-need/
Jacob Rees-Mogg (raised in a country house, Eton, Oxford, then an investment banker, net worth >£100m) on @Channel4News just now calling John Major (raised on a council estate, left school at 16 with three O Levels) the "European elite"
Never liked Major until the last year or two.
Amusing watching IDS and Michael Howard on every TV news programme saying that exPMs should shut up and keep a low profile… when these two utter failures that tried to be PM are always on hand to sell us the lofty ideals behind Brexit.
Spot on from “Brains for Brexit”
The EU Withdrawal Agreement hardens the EU’s line on using the Irish land border as a battering ram to elicit further concessions from the UK. This tactic is unlikely to work. The border is a manageable issue, and the sensible UK proposals have been validated by a detailed EU report on the use of technology to solve the problem.
https://briefingsforbrexit.com/the-eu-withdrawal-agreement-an-attempt-to-annex-northern-ireland/
Jamba - actually all it is is putting the draft exit / transition agreement into legal language. This is what may signed up to just a couple of months ago
Jamba...just keep on setting yourself up
Jamba - this is what PM Theresa May agreed to before Christmas getting written up. That’s all.
Now was I surprised at the time that she had agreed to it - yes, very.
Bit silly to complain now though. The decision has been made back in 2017.
It's funny how the irish fudge was hailed by some as such a great step forward when just a couple of months later it's turned out it was a bucket of shit instead. All the sane observers had managed to work that out immediately. Where is THM to explain how all the grown-ups are sorting it out behind the scenes?
Its not really shite - its just what was agreed at the time is not what May told the leavers or they didn't want to understand.
In the absence of other solutions NI has to stay in the CU effectively. Now May and co have not come up with other solutions so this is the only option left.
If thats what the 'Brains for Brexit' have come up with then the whole thing is doomed!
The idiot Brexiteers dismissed this as 'project fear' before the vote
Now they have to come up with a solution............
nothing, no plan, no detail, just wailing
May signed up to this in a desperate attempt to stave off a leadership challenge B4 Xmas, we remoaned that 'full alignment' for NI was a foolish thing to sign up to but Brexit has always been about putting the Tory party above the needs of the country.
May once agan playing a blinder
It saddens me. The self harm is one thing… the damage we intend to inflict on those South of the border in Ireland is another. A reminder that Brexit is about nationalism in the end, and raising two fingers to other nations with which we should be seeking to maintain cooperation and improve our relationships with.
The self harm is one thing… the damage we intend to inflict on those South of the border in Ireland is another.
I'm more concerned about a return of the IRA to blowing stuff up on the mainland to be honest.
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
Spot on from “Brains for Brexit”
Two oxymorons on one sentence, well done!
I have better things to do with my time than read any more clearly biased articles misrepresenting the issue as all the previous ones you're posted from Brexit think tanks have been. If you want to be taken seriously try finding some articles from different less biased sources to back up your claims. If you can't find any such articles that ought to tell you something...
Maybe he means Brians for Brexit?
The link I posted is written by someone who used to be moderately europhobic but has come to see the madness that is Brexit
A good speech from John Major in simple short sentences anyone can understand. The first thing I've seen since the referendum that could be a turning point. Fingers crossed.
So Mogg tweeted an apology for lying about Corbs on C4 news
wonder if he'll apologise for retweeting the Suns lies?
http://ticktockmaths.co.uk/maths-in-the-real-world-the-suns-brexit-percentages/
Also I smell another legal challenge?
The idiot Brexiteers dismissed this as ‘project fear’ before the vote
Now they have to come up with a solution…………
They have. Use technology, but don't expect any details, just like all of brexit, it's thin vannieer as soon as you ask for details you get told it will work it's self out. This time the parrot is squaking "technology, technology".
The EU commissioned its own study on electronic borders for Ireland / Northern Ireland. Published in December Mr Tusk, Junker, Barnier et al seem to be doing their best to turn a blind eye to it. Naked politicking.
The EU says itself that an electronic border is absolutely possible and more than that that Ireland / Northern Ireland border could be a role model for the whole of the EU 🙂 🙂 🙂
https://briefingsforbrexit.com/the-eu-withdrawal-agreement-an-attempt-to-annex-northern-ireland/
http://brexitcentral.com/theresa-may-needs-say-friday/
^^^ “new” forum formatting still awful I see
Edukator John Major signed the Masstricht Treaty and forced eurosceptic MPs to vote for it (Labour voted against). Odd he should now be suggesting a free vote don’t you think ? Major was kicked out as PM by his own party over Europe and the electorate then gave the Tories 10 years in opposition. He is by very definition yesterdays man. In his favour he is more popular than Tony Blair who is also trying to overturn the Referendum which of course rejected his signature of the Lisbon Treaty. Polticians their giant sized egos
@TheBrick why don’t you read the EU’s own report or at least the Briefings for Brexit report by the Cambridge Uni business schoool academic.
Nice one Jammers. Thanks for that. When I look for calm, considered reflective opinion on Brexit I find myself, almost by default, turning to Ian Duncan Smith
But you're right. You and Boris. The situation with the Irish border is just like administering the congestion charge
I just skimmed the executive summary of that and as far as I can tell it suggested that people who are not allowed free movement would present themselves to one of the manned border posts for processing. Right. Sure they will.
Unicorns, again.
But the rest of it is ''technology' anpr, more detailed driving licenses, more watching. Great, I guess people who voted for Brexit think moving closer to 1984 is a price worth paying.
And obviously with our govts (of whatever stripe) stellar record of implementation of technology based projects, and their cohesive vision for the final outcome, it'll be wonderful. For ****s sakes.
I just cannot see folks who cross the border accepting having numberplates either screwed or glued - back OR front - its just inhuman.
I think there is some cool South African company that developed a sort of RFID tag , just like the vets actually - perhaps there is an investment opportunity there ?
Edit> found a GB company - https://www.bioteq.co.uk/
quite a range - even anaesthetics for pain free implant .
It would solve a bunch of issues
Did you read the europarl link before you sent it Jamba? It seems not to provide for much of an electronic border for NI citizens.
Sounds a bit like the ESTA or ETA programme. That said the returning ESTAs lane at some US airports is a lovely experience. Still a hard border though.
or at least the Briefings for Brexit report by the Cambridge Uni business schoool academic.
Keep going with the appeals to authority. That was the one several people responded to and you ignored. If you arent going to bother defending whatever you lob up why should people bother reading it?
TJ that agrememt says “nothing is agreed till everything is agreed”. The EU itself keeps reminding us of that. The “regulatory alignment” text is meaningless. We had it put in as we know it has no legal bearing. Its just like the money, if there isn’t a proper agreement inc free trade the whole doument falls away with the one explicitly noted exception of eu citizens rights (although we haven’t legislated that). A proper free trade agreement solves the Irish border issue for the EU. One doesn’t exist for us as we will never out up border posts but the Irish may be forced to by the EU
DrJ its the environmental campaigners amd anti-American lefties who keep focusi g on “Chlorine” wasning as a big negative in itself. I am simply pointing out their argument is nonsense. The EU will approve it in time, as I said we already wash pre-prepared salad that way. The EU hasn’t a leg to stand on re animal welfare as it willfully turns a blind eye to abuses in Pork prodiction (same exists with foie gras btw, produced against EU law in Eastern Europe)
@dissonance just read the EU’s own report - I provided the link. First smart border US/Canada and another between Sweden and orway (whuch is why I imagine the EU asked head of Sweden’s customs service to wrote it)
The whole Irish border issue is an attempt by the EU to restrkct the UK’s ability to do global free trade deals as every single one will mean less business for the EU
I provided the link
Why are we required to read whatever rubbish you throw up when you then just ignore any responses?
As it happens I did look at it and the thing which stood out was its lack of timelines, costs and also how it skipped over the fact those borders are still rather obviously borders. They just have some measures to speed up some traffic.
Oh and Norway has had to commit to follow EU rules in order to get it. Which brings us on nicely to.
The whole Irish border issue is an attempt by the EU to restrkct the UK’s ability to do global free trade deals as every single one will mean less business for the EU
Couldnt you manage to get your arguments consistent within one post?
You don't seem to get the border situation as was was pointed out yesterday,
“Some in the UK argue that the UK can leave the border open after Brexit, charging no tariffs and making no inspections, and dare the European Union to be the first to put up customs posts. Would this actually work?
No. If it did not charge tariffs on imports from the EU, a post-Brexit UK would break the rules of the World Trade Organization, which operates on a “most-favoured nation” (MFN) principle of equal treatment.”
Jamba - yes nothing is agreed until everything is agreed and May agreed the wording and agreed to its provisions. - which means if the tories don't come up with a viable border solution its full alignment for NI or no deal - ie crash out with no transitional arrangements at all. Hardest of hard brexits with no transition, no deal on anything, no finacial services allowed to operate in Europe from london, no flights from UK using EU airspace, no travel to EU without visias, no cross border flow of goods, all UK citizens in the EU lose their healthcare rights etc etc
Now that is a disaster scenario.
Is that the same Cambridge academic who's the magic 8 ball retained by that bastion of right wing head-bangers that it the Policy Exchange
The whole Irish border issue is an attempt by the EU to restrkct the UK’s ability to do global free trade deals as every single one will mean less business for the EU
But I thought the whole point of Brexit was that our economy will thrive because we'll continue to trade just as much with the EU as we do now (despite not being in it), and also massively grow our trade with other places through all these wonderful new trade deals we'll have? No? Otherwise, surely our economy will at best, remain static. No?
And if you really want to understand the Irish Border issue in the context of the GF Agreement you can listen to the Blair interview on the R4 Today program this morning. Little to do with trade and more to do with respecting nationalist aspirations in NI.
So, the EU is bad because it's protectionist, but the UK will still trade just as much with the EU when it's out.
That doesn't seem to add up...