[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

You can do both, of course. Adapt with all the many possible results of Brexit in mind, and argue for a more sensible path to be taken.

Well on the other side of the equation UK exports of chocolate are doing well. Swings and roundabouts isn't it. So the wise reaction is to adapt.

Adapting is not innovativing, THM.
Two very different things.
Innovating may allow you to adapt but that’s different.

Nor is adapting first leading. It’s still reactive.
Leading sets the agenda. Adapting responds to it.

If can be - leaders do that for sure.

So the wise reaction is to adapt.

😉

Of course you could potentially argue that Tesla are leading change in EVs, even that they are innovative. But they are not adapting - they are seeking to make others adapt. Ultimately I suspect they will fail spectacularly, but others will adapt into the space they have created.

"Well on the other side of the equation UK exports of chocolate are doing well. "
It may not be in your briefing papers but the UK does not grow chocolate , so as our economy weakens (your prediction) UK importation costs will rise. Any deal negotiated for exports will only be as good as current or worse so inevitably our exports will be at a disadvantage in Europe which is likely to remain our best market for chocolate. So maybe swings and roundabouts today but it's a big slide tomorrow.

But they are not adapting - they are seeking to make others adapt.

Surely that's the role of government though?

https://www.confectionerynews.com/Article/2017/11/27/British-chocolate-exports-to-the-EU-continue-to-grow

I hope not mol.

To play devil's advocate … you could argue Tate&Lyle have a hand in leading at least part of government as regards Brexit.

Anyway… I would still like to see a plan… what do our government want to replace EU membership with…? When do they get back to arguing about that amongst themselves? Next week?

I hope not mol.

What? You've lost me.

I was talking about the EV policy decision. The government decides the policy and the manufacturers have to adapt. I think this is a rare good move from the government. I wonder if it would have happened without the EU air quality regs? 😉

what do our government want to replace EU membership with…?

Well since no-one knows, that's why a second referendum is the only logical step. But that would be difficult and damaging to the UK's prospects anyway.

So THM, since you are not in favour of a second referendum - why is it mandatory to respect the 'will of the people' for one difficult and potentially damaging decision, but not for another?

Chocolate… uk exporters using exports to the rEU to balance their businesses… we've covered that THM. Now… what new barriers and tariffs should they be planning for?

Playing devil's advocate again… UK EV policy was very much led by the manufacturers, who had already announced their own plans (I suppose you could say they were following what other governments abroad have indicated they will do, maybe).

You could have looked forward to better chocolate sales to Japan as my clients could have done with Welsh beef.

The published info on the Japan/EU trade agreement makes a fascinating read especially as it has been concluded post art 50 - the prospect of a UKless EU clearly hasn't worried the Japanese.

[quote=teamhurtmore ]they should stop and listen to why people voted the way they did and think about it.

😆 - have you ever tried stopping and listening? It's been mentioned on here numerous times, a significant proportion of those who voted Leave did so:
a) because of things which membership of the EU makes no difference to
b) because they don't like all the foreigners here from non EU countries
c) because they like the idea of an extra £350m a week for the NHS (or some other thing they were lied to about)
d) as a protest vote (which they regretted the morning after)

If you discounted the votes of all those who voted for something they're not going to get there would have been a significant majority for Remain even at the time.

Oh was that all?

Bloody thickos....

Why on earth would THM listen to anyone else? He knows what the truth is,and that counts for more than anyone else's opinion.

Thought I'd have a final look in here before then end of the year to see if the quality of debate has improved. I see things have improved a little but:

THM still posts mindless incomprehsible provacative disparaging drivel. I'll quote his latest contribution in case the perfidious **** stealth edits

Oh was that all?

Bloody thickos....

WTF are you on about and who are you replying too, THM?

Edit: thinking about it "thickos" is plural so he's adressing all the contributors to this thread as thickos.

Unlike most remainders I have spent a lot of time reading about why the leavers voted the way they did, why their campaign was more successfully than ours, and what lessons can be learned about it.

Much better than just dismissing them as thickos or ill-or uniformed. That the real condescending behaviour

What if we cancelled out from our side those who

1. Believe the € is a good thing
2. Deny the harm that this has caused the Euro Area
3. Believed that the UK economy would collapse immediately after the vote
4. Believe that it is impossible to create a unique FTA with Europe
5. Ignore the crass stupidity of imposing real (not pretend) austerity on a EU nation in the middle of an economic crisis

The leavers would have a landslide

Thought I'd have a final look in here before then end of the year to see if the quality of debate has improved. I see things have improved a little but:

Why you could have stuck to making wild accusations about Americans, Nigerians and Mexicans instead ?

Edit: thinking about it "thickos" is plural so he's adressing all the contributors to this thread as thickos.

No surprise to see you pop back, make something up, and use this to make unsubstantiated and potentially inflammatory claims about other posters. Are you going to tell the truth in 2018?

Is that your version of "la la I can;t hear you" ?

who knows what his latest cryptic zen comment meant but hey lets all feed him again by saying how little we value his contribution...it might just work better than ignoring him

No, this is the real condescending content on this page

Unlike most remainders I have spent a lot of time reading about why the leavers voted the way they did, why their campaign was more successfully than ours, and what lessons can be learned about it.

As for "ours", could you tell us what part of the remain campaign you contributed to please. You may have contributed to the failure but I certainly didn't.

Are you suggesting that no one read and/or believed list of untruths that you published on here? In which case you may be correct. Who knows?

[s]Out of your 5 points 2 of them relate to the eurozone, so have little [/s]
oh i can't be bothered. The radio waves must be getting to you.

Happy new year everyone.

That the real condescending behaviour

More condescending than going on about "grown ups"?
As for "spent a lot of time reading". Your demonstrated inability to understand what people have written on this thread, despite multiple attempts to correct you, doesnt give me faith in how well thats gone for you.

it's your side who refute that we have intelligent, grown up people (the "grown ups) playing an important role in negotiating our future access to the single market. I disagree and believe that we have some very grown up people doing a very good job in very difficult conditions

My reference to grown ups is a direct retort to the idea that we only have incompetent fools on our side. That just displays considerable ignorance and a lack of basic reading. The profiles of our front line team are available for those who read rather than abuse. Unfortunately quiet a few "cannot be bothered"

I'm suggesting people (both remainers and leavers) have happy new year without drinking too much, eating too much, or doing themselves any injury.

Have a good one guys.

And really, THM, your resolution should be to do something about your dependence on this place. You're here from before dawn to after dusk, from the train, from the office, from wherever you're riding a bike, walking or skiing or even claiming to relax - someone counted thirty odd posts in a day, the one constant on opening this thread is that there will be a post from you and it will give a bad impression you as a person. Let it go man, and read something by François Lelord instead. You only have one life, use it wisely, happiness is within your reach.

there will be a post from you and it will give a bad impression you as a person.

If true, that would be a remarkable coincidence.

What next, abusing Nigerians and Mexicans? What would them make me - a racist?

See.

[quote=teamhurtmore ]Unlike most remainders I have spent a lot of time reading about why the leavers voted the way they did, why their campaign was more successfully than ours, and what lessons can be learned about it.

Go on then...

Much better than just dismissing them as thickos or ill-or uniformed. That the real condescending behaviour

Given you appear to be replying to me, is that what you're accusing me of? In what way do you think I'm dismissing people? I simply provided a list of reasons a significant number of people voted Leave - are you suggesting that the list is inaccurate, or that it didn't apply to more people than the difference between the Remain and Leave vote?

What if we cancelled out from our side those who

Oh look, a list of things which is completely non-equivalent to mine.

What do you think folks, should I explain to THM why it is non-equivalent or should he go off and do some research because he'll learn more that way? 😆

I think if you discounted people from both lists remain would still have a landslide. That was a poor effort thm.

You have absolutely no chance of getting THM to look for evidence that he is wrong.

The Russians don't program their bots like that.

Thickos - general
No the conclusion was facile and without substance - hence the comparison to illustrate the same point

I think if you discounted people from both lists remain would still have a landslide. That was a poor effort thm

If so our campaign was even crappier than I thought. An even poorer effort, no wonder people have such difficulty getting over it. Perhaps in '18?

Happy new year !

[quote=teamhurtmore ]hence the comparison to illustrate the same point

Ah, so it was one of these, I did wonder:

[img] [/img]

If so our campaign was even crappier than I thought.

There appears to be a failure in your thinking - are you suggesting that there was some way for the Remain campaign to persuade all those people who voted Leave for reasons which weren't based upon reality to change their minds?

BTW have you done your homework yet?

He won't have done his homework,he's too busy marking mock exam papers 😀

Interesting choice of first post for 2018 😯

You must be very proud

Its not his first post of the year ,I know how much you like accuracy and doing your own research, so god knows how you got that wrong 😉
Nothing wrong with a little bit of gentle sarcasm and i advise you to get used to it and "trolling" from all sides. You are almost a parady account

I see THM's new year resolution wasn't to stop sneering. Or if it was, it didn't last long.

Three posts from “you lot”, all ad homs set the tone - including the chief troll laying out his on-going intentions for the new year. Not that this represents any change.

See you’re in the same boat captain. Classy stuff 😯 well done.

Anyone seen a topic?

How's the homework coming along?

Nothing you write is true and my warning is that if you continue to act like this then many will continue to respond like this.
You are free to think you are some sort of "victim " as the alternative means reflecting on your own behaviour and what you do to cause such a widespread response from so many posters.
its either because
1) they all have a point
2) everyone is just a troll

Best of luck working out where the truth is but yes if you keep doing this then folk will keep doing this

be the change you want, be nice to everyone and actually have a debate without sneering and condescending lets see what happens.

Surely you are bored of this and actually want to have a debate rather than just make people think you are a **** ?

Five in a row. Wow, the remoaner NY resolution in full flow. Stay classy guys. 😀

Fine thanks aracer

[img] [/img]

I look forward to seeing it when you're done then. If you need a hint, there are two parts to the answer. Though if it's proving too tough you could always address the points made in direct reply to you (I'm not suggesting doing that for every point you've yet to reply to on this thread, I'm not that cruel, just the post above would be a start...)

Five in a row.

I see. That presumably includes mine which can't be considered an ad-hom in any way or form and was simply enquiring on your progress in working out the difference between my list and yours.

Six. Hey, good game.

Are chewkw and Jambas on holiday still?!? 😀

seven

presumably you're counting every post made by somebody other than you

eight

So 2018 Brexit predictions
(Low hanging fruit)
More tory rebels
[img] [/img]
Right wing press will react badly
[img] [/img]
We call the whole thing off?
[img] [/img]
Or is that the end of this current shambles of a government

Whether may can hold the tories together is the only thing of interest. She is treading a fine line trying to appease both sides so they can both claim a victory. Given this is impossible and she is fairy inept i expect it to go wrong sometime in the summer

Still think leaving is the most likely but all options are still a possibility

Good news that UK manufacturing delivered best quarter for past three and half years, with expansion above long term trend.

UK getting on with it. Bravo!

Good to see us surging ahead of the Eurozone, "No, that honour went to the euro, which showed no sign of shedding the barnstorming form that defined the currency’s final fortnight of 2017. With the eurozone manufacturing PMI at a record high of 60.6 – prompted by country-specific all-time peaks for Austria, Germany and Ireland – the euro surged half a percent against the dollar, sending it above $1.206, while nabbing 0.2% off sterling to send its rival to a fresh 5 week nadir." Hurrah!

Are chewkw and Jambas on holiday still?!?

Jamba is now superfluous since you have adopted his line about the Euro being bad for the UK EU membership.

The € is bad for the € area, very bad, so it only affects us indirectly

So barnstorming is bad and nadir is good? Hurrah once more with added gusto!

The € is bad for the € area, very bad

The € is bad for the € area, very bad

[quote=teamhurtmore ]UK getting on with it. Bravo!

UK carrying on doing what it was doing before and paying no attention at all to Brexit, Bravo! I'm not sure why you think it wouldn't be, but clearly Brexit hasn't happened yet, so nothing much has changed.

Apart from 48% of the population having something to be very pissed off with, feel threatened by and draw in purse strings at the margin accordingly.

The UK’s PMI for December stood at 56.3; that for the eurozone stands at 60.6. The gap has not been wider for almost a decade.
"UK getting on with it. Bravo!" If by it ,you mean being out performed by Europe.

UK carrying on doing what it was doing before and paying no attention at all to Brexit

If only. But great if that’s true

Bravo! I'm not sure why you think it wouldn't be,

Well you are in a significant minority then. Our side claimed that activity would be significantly weaker already. Perhaps all the fear was why we lost?

but clearly Brexit hasn't happened yet, so nothing much has changed.

True. Clearly untrue.

Perhaps all the fear was why we lost?

All the racism/nationalism was why we lost. But we can't say that....

The Europe recovered later and is in s different part of their cycle. So?

Anyway personally happy that the UK and Eu is doing better than expected - win win is always better

The UK doing better than expected when it's lousy and Brexit hasn't even happened yet. You were expecting worse! I hope your employer is smacking your wrist for expecting and preparing for worse.

"win win", THM, the man who claims the glass is half full when it's 1/3 full and cracked. And the poor are being served drain water in soluble paper cups.

Lousy? Still struggling with the truth ed? Best for the past three and a half years !!!

I get paid for preparing for all outcomes. Better than running away from reality

Nice gross representation though

Still must be shocking that the UK is going to get through this mess. Just enough people getting on with life....instead of following your misplaced rallying call for economic sabotage

Lousy lousy lousy, worst in Europe said someone up there, carry on polishing your turd, THM.

People get through all sorts of messes, wars, famines, diseases, they get on with life. It doesn't shock me that people get through them, it does shock me that people in power deliberately put people through avoidable misery.

So, say, if we were to look at the OECD, always a decent enough barometer, how are our wages performing?

Lousy lousy lousy, worst in Europe said someone up there, carry on polishing your turd, THM.

Perhaps you are not alone at misunderstanding what the data means?

DD wage growth is following our productivity record which is not good. Still better than in Europe. Which is a shame for them

Still better than in Europe

False again, THM. OECD:

https://data.oecd.org/lprdty/gdp-per-hour-worked.htm

Euro 19, 105
Euro 28, 106
UK, 101
and those lazy French, 105. 😛

Check out Ireland, Darcy. 8)

Still misunderstanding Ed?

We are talking wage growth. Perhaps it’s time for another nice song instead?

“Ode to sabotage”

DD wage growth is following our productivity record which is not good. Still better than in Europe.

You write ambiguous sentenses, I'm surprised your employer tolerates that, THM. Good thing you're not a lawyer.

Given my knowledge of law is as poor as you knowledge of economics and politics, you might be correct there for a change.

It’s a c not an s BTW

We are talking wage growth.

Don't start picking up on mis-spelling, that's a whole new level of condescension.

Oh, and FWIW, I assume you meant to say 'as poor as YOUR knowledge....'. 😉

True it was a joke for another poster - my speeding courtesy of Apple is awful 😉

*waits for phrase “negative growth”*

I get paid for preparing for all outcomes

So you get paid even if your students don't turn up? Sweet gig dude.

Godot will come faster DD

Still must be shocking that the UK is going to get through this mess. Just enough people getting on with life....instead of following your misplaced rallying call for economic sabotage

No. I have sanguine about our prospects all along. Never believed the doomsday nonsense.

But yes, uncertainty has affected the economy which is why today’s news is positive - unless people delight in doing the UK down?

Good luck with assessment