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Not advocating double taxation, just a system that prevents you avoiding the tax a UK citizen should be paying by claiming to live elsewhere (either fictitiously or otherwise).
If you pay that level of tax elsewhere, then fair enough, if not HMRC should collect the difference.
If a UK passport is of no benefit, fine you can hand it in at the embassy, if it is, pay tax.
PS some of the places Jamba has mentioned might perhaps actually want more tax off him in some circumstances, I don’t know.
Not paying the appropriate tax is just a dick move. No one wants to but you can't take the benefits and shirk the responsibility...
Cake & eat it from a Brexiteer?
Why am I not surprised....
Not advocating double taxation, just a system that prevents you avoiding the tax a UK citizen should be paying by claiming to live elsewhere (either fictitiously or otherwise).
You don't lose your ordinary residence unless you spend more than 9 months a year outside the UK for a number of years, which means you still have a tax liability.
jambalaya - Member
@mike US, China, Canada Australia, South Korea, Japan
Might want to read what the (fake news, failing BBC says)
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41859691
Reality Check: Does the UK trade with 'the rest of world' on WTO rules?
Does any other country trade on WTO rules alone?
If you look at the WTO database which lists all regional trade agreements, there is nothing for Mauritania. That's led some to suggest Mauritania is the only member to trade solely on WTO rules.However, according to the WTO, Mauritania has joined the Economic Community of West African States, and it has preferential trade arrangements with some 20 WTO members.
There are some countries which aren't WTO members, including Algeria, Serbia and North Korea, but the WTO says all of its members have some sort of bilateral or regional trade agreement in place.
The only way you can pay taxes and take nothing from the UK is by giving back your pension and not living in the UK. Through reciprocal agreements on health care probably cover that too.
Though the cost of dealing with your delusions and fantasy will cost the UK dearly and take generations to pay back.
Mefty - if they pay their taxes, they can continue to come here 3 months a year - seems civilised. However Jamba was talking about not paying his taxes.
Also tell me more about non-dom types, especially, but not limited to, senior Tories who said they would give up non-dom status then didn’t. Another detestable group.
Tbf Jamba didn’t say he’d be routeing his earnings through a Cayman-based shell company via a Zurich nameplate, I read it that he’d pay local taxes in either the U.K. or Portugal/France/wherever he lives, depending on which is lower. In the absence of US style top-up laws, seems reasonable to me!
Also Junkyard, $1.26m for top 1%, really? Given that top 10% was apparently about £40k, and I remember hearing that Labour’s proposed tax increases on those earning £80k+ only affected the top 2%, that seems like a very bendy line!
Perfectly reason airtragic. He knows where the embassy is to hand his UK passport in.
£162k In 2014/15 for top 1%. But saying he’d been doing that for 35 years when he’s (I think) 54? Possible I suppose.
PS I’m not actually saying I’d like Jamba to go by the way. I’m saying he needs to grow up and think about the messages he’s sending. And to realise that if there is a benefit to UK citizenship then it’s worth paying for.
You realise that the official government stats (2011/12 - last year I could find quickly) have poorer people (lowest 20%) paying 36.6% tax all in while richer people come out at 35.5%.
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igm I lived in Japan for over a decade. I couldn't have handed in my UK passport even if I'd wanted to. The UK levied no taxes on me (which woud have been higher that they were in Japan). I'm not defending tax evasion but it's not as trivial as you seem t think.
If it were trivial it would have been sorted by now, or it wouldn’t actually matter.
But given that Portugal would be taxing him 365 days a year, you’re effectively arguing for double taxation.
I have been fortunate enough to have paid a quite significant amount of tax
You have been fortunate to have taken more from the pot than 99% of others. Stop worrying about tax and just look at your net earnings and see that you are taking more than enough.
I too have been very fortunate (not down to anything I have done - just seem to have an ability) but where we differ is that I am very happy to pay taxes so the less fortunate can live a better life.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/family-worried-how-grandad-will-manage-without-hard-brexit-20171217140990 ]Are you worried about an elderly Brexit-supporting relative this Christmas?[/url]
why would jamba choose portugal I wonder?
from [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/special-reports/11519095/The-ultimate-pension-freedom-Retire-in-Portugal-and-reduce-your-tax.html ]here[/url]If you move to sunny Portugal for example, it could be possible to take your UK pension and pay absolutely no tax on it for the first 10 years. This applies even if you withdraw large sums, a move which in the UK could attract crippling tax charges, as such withdrawals are treated and taxed as ordinary income.
Please can we not make this thread about Jamba? He's been good enough to state his opnions here, and open enough to explain where he is coming from. Let's not attack him so directly, find ways to put your opposing opinions in a way less personal if possible.
However Jamba was talking about not paying his taxes.
He was talking about moving abroad for his retirement, a fairly common aspiration.
Not sure the US system is one to aspire to, it has creates huge compliance costs for everyone and the main beneficiaries are tax advisers. There is good reason why no other major nation has the same or similar system.
Not sure the relevance of non-doms, but you can't benefit from non-dom status if you sit in Parliament. The benefit of it is being eroded as the charge for benefiting from the rules rises.
IDS on R4, doing his best to remind everyone that Tories Brexit is going to cause problems for businesses.
No wonder the public are turning against Brexit !
kelvin - Member
Please can we not make this thread about Jamba? He's been good enough to state his opnions here, and open enough to explain where he is coming from. Let's not attack him so directly, find ways to put your opposing opinions in a way less personal if possible.
Sorry, but it's a despicable position that needs challenged. An "I'm alright jack" attitude. Pulling up the ladders.
Absolutely disgusting greed. And I'm not saying that from a position of jealousy. I'm in an extremely privileged position with an income that I can honestly say I feel slightly embarrassed and guilty about. As a scot living in Scotland I was extremely happy about the SNPs income tax changes last week that will see me pay more tax, I only wish it was slightly higher.
This from an Indian newspaper is a great solution to Brexit. It's what we imposed on them so it must be a good solution...
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^bindun 😉
BoardinBob - MemberSorry, but it's a despicable position that needs challenged. An "I'm alright jack" attitude. Pulling up the ladders.
Absolutely disgusting greed. And I'm not saying that from a position of jealousy. I'm in an extremely privileged position with an income that I can honestly say I feel slightly embarrassed and guilty about. As a scot living in Scotland I was extremely happy about the SNPs income tax changes last week that will see me pay more tax, I only wish it was slightly higher.
Agreed. I generally don't bother with this thread, but read the last few days. And while I didn't find it particularly surprising Jamba's statements need to be challenged.
Kelvin - I make no attack on Jamba personally - the (admittedly very limited, but notable nevertheless) dealings I have had with him have shown him to be a decent person.
I do have a problem with his stated positions of seeking to enjoy freedom of movement while denying it to others and complaining about tax avoidance while suggesting he will choose where to live to avoid tax.
That’s not personal. It is extended to anyone who takes that sort of view of the world.
The numbers suggest that in percentage terms richer folk are not paying their dues (when compared to poorer folk). The attitudes above reinforce that.
For the record, it’s not envy on the pay/tax thing. I’m not a 1%er, but I’m not a million miles away.
It probably is envy on having FoM removed from me and my children - though in reality it’s probably my language skills that hold me back personally.
jambalaya / farage - cut from the same cloth...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/16/nigel-farage-skint-ukip-4m-townhouse
Irritable Duncan Syndrome really selling this hard brexit idea today! "British business will have to learn, as they do, to get by in a different world"
A decade of learning to get by is just peachy...
Multiple analyses in the ft
Pointing to an average 0.9% hit to gdp, just since the vote...
Cheers Brexies, I hope you are all as insulated from the financial effects as jambot !
Kelvin - I make no attack on Jamba personally - the (admittedly very limited, but notable nevertheless) dealings I have had with him have shown him to be a decent person.
I do have a problem with his stated positions of seeking to enjoy freedom of movement while denying it to others and complaining about tax avoidance while suggesting he will choose where to live to avoid tax.
That’s not personal. It is extended to anyone who takes that sort of view of the world.
The numbers suggest that in percentage terms richer folk are not paying their dues (when compared to poorer folk). The attitudes above reinforce that.
For the record, it’s not envy on the pay/tax thing. I’m not a 1%er, but I’m not a million miles away.
It probably is envy on having FoM removed from me and my children - though in reality it’s probably my language skills that hold me back personally.
Bottom line:
If you put your head above the parapet - you can expect to be shot at.
Shortly I expect THM to appear complaining about the "tag team" & "bullying" whilst completely ignoring what's actually taken place..
🙄
“It's what we imposed on them ”
Colonial guilt trumping history a bit there!
jambalaya / farage - cut from the same cloth...
Nah Jamba’s ok no ones as bad as Farage the ultimate piss taker.
good summary of why we need them, more than they need us
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/pirs.12334/full
obvs either way its lose-lose!
So Its Canada [s]+ + +[/s]
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And Canada doesn't solve the Republic/NI border issue, so?
Though this may be a better one:
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😉
Well it would please around 51% of voters to stay. Allegedly.
So Its Canada + + +
What type of society would you rather live in? Canada or France/Italy/Spain etc.?
Pass me the Maple syrup!
Well, I suppose it's more like Canada if/when Trump tears up NAFTA.
It's all very amusing to some, but those seeking to destroy current FTAs and trading blocks really need to look more closely at the way those running BIG countries are talking at the moment… we need a close relationship with (or in) the EU more than ever. Keep the current deals AND chase more, like the EU/Canada one (or EU/Japan one), nothing to be gained from renegotiating in the current "America First" led climate as a smaller/lesser entity.
[quote=ninfan ]What type of society would you rather live in? Canada or France/Italy/Spain etc.?
I'm sure you're going to explain the differences to us, and why Canada is so much better than those other countries...
not that it's in the least bit relevant of course, but it would be enlightening!
it might give the uk the ability to cope with 2.5cm of snow ?
‘Amusing’ was the word aracer. I doubt it will be ‘enlightening’.
Those who pay the most tax have benefited from the taxation of others disproportionately.
They have used and relied the apparatus of the State and its infrastructure to a disproportionate benefit - therefore they should be pay their fair share.
This "I don't make use of the service because I pay private school fees" is a total con.
They have benefited massively from their own usually University education, the education and welfare of their employees/those below them in the chain.
If the 1%ers are deluding themselves if they think achieved in on their own merit.
should be pay their fair share.
Isn’t that how percentages work? Two people paying tax at the same %age rate both pay an equal “share”
As a 1.5%er, agreed LD.
Poorer:Richer >>> 36.6%:35.5%
Shortly I expect THM to appear complaining about the "tag team" & "bullying" whilst completely ignoring what's actually taken place..
Good to see you can self correct these days - so no need. Plus more fun in la neige!
Fun discussing le Brexshit with a guide in the ski lift in dodgy French 😉
Isn’t that how percentages work? Two people paying tax at the same %age rate both pay an equal “share”
yes and no - there are people on this thread smugly suggesting tax evasion.
A flat rate is no good - the rates should ramp up progressively to recognise what they are taking and have benefited from. They should then pay that rate.
Good to see you can self correct these days - so no need. Plus more fun in la neige!
You're as reliable as SBB.
Thank you for proving my point.
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yes and no - there are people on this thread smugly suggesting tax evasion.
Who?
Been away from STW for a while. I see the voice of deluded, selfish, greedy entitlement is still a regular. Off i go again...
Indeed mefty. That was why it was so funny to see people get so het up! Surprised at IGM missing the point but seems to be a little off track at the moment
I'm in an extremely privileged position with an income that I can honestly say I feel slightly embarrassed and guilty about
you can always donate some of it to charity then there is no reason for guilt.
you can always donate some of it to charity then there is no reason for guilt.
Indeed.
However given I have to step over homeless people to get into my office building pretty much every morning, I can't help but think there's a bigger problem 😥
there are people on this thread smugly suggesting tax [s]evasion[/s] dodging.
Nothing illegal was being suggested. Just something rather shabby.
THM - any point you feel I’m missing feel free to spell out - I promise I won’t take offence - but I know the point I’m making and I find the hypocrisy of the attitude espoused disappointing almost to the point of being offensive.
IGM, I suspect now he's worked out that your arguments/reasoning are pretty good, he's just trying to get a rise out of you.
If you'd noticed, he does it to people that he can't browbeat into submission.
Bloody ECJ telling us that Uber should be regulated. 🙂
Londoners, please watch out for Brexit supporting cabbies spontaneously combusting today.
Bloody ECJ telling us that Uber should be regulated
Yes they say it's a cab firm not an "information society service". No shit Sherlock.
IGM. Obviously enjoy our debate and agree on FoM but thought comments on tax went too far. That’s all
UK being upfront with banking services despite Barnier playing hard man with passporting
Londoners, please watch out for Brexit supporting cabbies spontaneously combusting today.
but TFL already have their own action against Uber going on, so your comment means little.
THM - fair enough. Tax is something a lot of people hold opinions on. Some of them quite deeply.
UK being upfront with banking services despite Barnier playing hard man with passporting
meh, its just another concession from the May
so thats the schedule, the 3 conditions & now giving EU banks what they wanted
theres a few days left in 2017 for the government to fold on something else!
and what awaits in 2018!
theres a few days left in 2017 for the government to fold on something else!
Don't forget she needs to sell this to the baying masses of her own party
2018? Obvious - down to the nitty gritty of trade. From that we can determine everything else.
IGM - understood (but IMO Mefty was stil correct)
THM - not entirely sure I disagreed with him. He picked one salient fact (which I agree with), and I just put that in context.
Brexit could delayed until after March 2019, Theresa May has conceded – but insisted it would only be “in exceptional circumstances for the shortest possible time”. The Prime Minister came under pressure in the Commons after her climbdown over putting the exact date and time of departure in domestic law.
[url=http://] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-delayed-theresa-may-exceptional-circumstance-eu-withdrawal-bill-transition-latest-updates-a8120226.html [/url]
Everyone should read this:
[url= http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/12/20/brexit-all-that-s-left-for-may-to-get-through-is-the-unyield ]reality[/url]
The Brexit Cabinet committee and full Cabinet meeting on Monday and yesterday, respectively, persisted in the delusion that we could indeed agree a bespoke deal somewhere between Norway and Canada - the so-called 'Canada plus-plus-plus'....... The only thing the government will find between Norway and Canada is the wreck of the Titanic.
Nah don’t like reality. It’ll be fine 🙂
Didn’t Davis say he’d resign if Green went?
Didn’t Davis say he’d resign if Green went?
I think it was "if he's sacked" (to paraphrase). And of course, he wasn't sacked, he was "asked to resign", which given what Davis has got away with recently, is more than enough ambiguity for him to continue to embarrass the UK in Brussels. 🙂
She can't sack anyone, she's running a minority government.
She's basically shafted.
Deadly - paraphrasing “asked to resign” gives you “sacked” but I suspect you are correct.
Should there be a second Referendum on the final deal
No - 319
Yes - 23
Go Vince 😀
Corbyn whipped Labour to abstain from Chris Leslie’s amendment saying we must remain in the Customs Union thus guaranteeing its defeat
http://brexitcentral.com/23-mps-voted-second-referendum/
Interesting Research from Open Europe on Leavers attitudes to Immigration - full 45 page report linked in article
http://brexitcentral.com/brexit-not-drawbridge-opportunity-immigration-concerns/
[b]Beyond the Westminster Bubble[/b]
She can't sack anyone, she's running a minority government.
He can still vote.
she can't sack him as an MP, only from his role as Chief Master Brexit Tactician and Negotiator.
Trade descriptions act may also apply.
Third referendum was almost impossible anyway Jamba.
The vote changes nothing.
The report is interesting. Particularly the bit that says if cutting immigration hurts jobs or the economy its a bad idea.
Meanwhile away from the Westminster Brexy bubble there is a continued and growing majority in the country for remaining in the EU.
Nah don’t like reality. It’ll be fine
Sure will!
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Interesting Research from Open Europe on Leavers attitudes to Immigration - full 45 page report linked in article
I think last night's League of Gentlemen managed to summarise it much more succinctly
This is a local country for local people
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So, I guess we're not going to find out where the £425,000 donation to the DUP came from.
I'm thinking about getting my tin-foil hat out of the cupboard.
In Russia, tin foil hat is aerial for thought control.
So, I guess we're not going to find out where the £425,000 donation to the DUP came from.
Hmm I just think that we created an environment for mischief with Brexit and it was cheap and easy to give it momementum.
Look at how many millions trump wasted on bombing an empty airfield and how little it’s took to split us from eu and tie up the government in some pointless exercise.