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I would massively prefer a free trade and freedom of movement deal with many of the former commonwealth nations, particularly the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, USA, Caribbean nationsnever going to happen.
I removed the killfile to see this
teamhurtmore - MemberGood to seeing you making things up again TJ.
Perhaps you could try a killfile then you wouldn’t have to state false things in your constant quest to be so abusive. Just a thought....
You got a ban for using pejorative racist terms about scots IIRC ( or certainly a warning)
Your hatred for uppity Scots is clear from your decent into racist name calling
Go on - try the racist name calling again
You are beneath contempt
Good morning to you too. What a pleasant chap you are.
Put the killfile back on and have a nice day. Avoid the news this morning though....
So did you or did you not have posts removed and a warning / ban for using racist pejorative terms about scots?
I hope for the country's sake that they've got it right this time....
Put you kilfille back on and save everyone the boring abuse. Your attempts at bullying don’t work with me.
We shall see Cody. Looks like some folk have had long nights and little sleep. Odd if the impossible happens and we can finally get down to discussing trade.
Let's see what the border deal is.... if we're all back in the CU as a result I could accept progress. JRM and his mates, maybe not......
Some clever grown ups have clearly been working very hard.
Some clever grown ups have clearly been working very hard
Junker and Tusk..
They might even have read the EUs impact assessments..
Some clever grown ups have clearly been working very hard.
Did they give David Davis the night off then?
THM's experience of Scotland is based on eating at The Witchery and playing golf around the St Andrews Links - at least going from some previous posts.
Which is fine, obviously the Visit Scotland life is a part of our country and a very nice, pleasant part of it.
Doesn't really give the whole picture. I doubt he's been up the Hilltown in Dundee on a Saturday night.
can we get this back on topic, i suspect we all have opinions on THM and TJ and Jamba and probably many others too.
Seems like 'progress' has been made, no border between NI and the RoI and GF agreement upheld. Which I think has implications for the rest of the UK too, otherwise the DUP will be out.
Makes me wonder what the frothy mouthed exiteers will make of it. JRM will be sharpening his wit as we speak......
No one yet saying what the compromise is that I can see.
No me neither......
But I'm sure some adults who aren't total idea-gogues will sort it out, it's just making sure 'they' don't find out where these talks are so they can derail them.
"49. The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to
its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible
with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom's intention is to achieve
these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible,
the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique
circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United
Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the
Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the allisland
economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.
Which in summary seems to me to be - well that last idea was a crap one so we're agreed we need a better one.
I suppose technically it's progress 🙄
Check out @RobertsDan’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/RobertsDan/status/939029342360711170?s=09
The UK remains committed to "full alignment with the rules of the customs union and the single market"
In the absence of agreed solutions, the United
Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the
Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the allisland
economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.
Punted it down the road, then.
🙄
EDIT: So which industries 'support North/South cooperation'? Wouldn't that be pretty much everything which flows between North and South, people and goods?
Hard Brexit fans are NOT going to be happy.
So brexit means brexit, except it doesn't 😆
....and another 10 years of ECJ oversight as well, of course.
Next week at Westminster will be rather entertaining, I feel. 😆
Sooo what exactly are we leaving?
Dear, dear....
Farage has just said that its good news for Mrs May as she can now proceed to the next level of humiliation.
I do wonder if she's got cabinet support for this. Late night discussions, did she cut them out of the loop? Hope not.
Stop moaning 😉 the less impact the better. Unlike the 99% wrong gang, this is what has been largely expected.
(YGH - sorry never been into dogging. But Stakis (in those days ) casino and some snooker halls did make in into great nights out in Dundee!.. The Tay, the Tay....)
Punted it down the road, then.
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So basically the “solution" is to promise regulatory alignment until and unless we can work out any other solution. AKA "Let's pretend we are leaving".
thecaptain - Member
So basically the “solution" is to promise regulatory alignment until and unless we can work out any other solution. AKA "Let's pretend we are leaving".
It does sound that way. Semantics, basically. Interesting to hear that she conducted much of this from the UK last night, then flew to Brussels to shake hands and pose for photos. Which sounds like she was massaging the Cabinet/everyone else who's pulling the strings on Brexit, which hopefully means she's got buy-in from them.
Juncker has a GSOH 🙂 also seems that he appreciates May's fragile position by the way he bigs her up for the press. A wee soundbite, Teresa, to help you sell it to your people.
Juncker has a GSOH also seems that he appreciates May's fragile position by the way he bigs her up for the press.
An endorsement from Juncker is not necessarily a boon for a UK politician in terms of mainstream media coverage. It's a bit like Trump saying nice things about you.
Mays ability to generate a deal no one likes much is awesome...sorry sensible and grown up 😉
So we are not really leaving , are still paying and we have no say
No one would have voted for this beforehand not leaver nor remainer so there is no way anyone can claim this as a victory. It is also just a delay of the issue with no solution as NI should be termed
I don't think Herr Juncker would be impressed by the comparison.AFAIK he's not a ginger narcissist,fantasist, and molester of women.
So we are not really leaving , are still paying and we have no say
Indeed. But it's a red, white and blue brexit.
I don't think Herr Juncker would be impressed by the comparison.AFAIK he's not a ginger narcissist,fantasist, and molester of women.
Not what I meant :-)- just that being aligned, or matey with Juncker will get you slammed by the Mail etc just as much as being Trump's mate gets you criticised by liberal media.
The three conditions have now been met by agreeing to the EU's original demands:
Divorce payment as demanded by EU (rather than 20bn), good
Good Friday agreement respected in terms of national unity without customs check points, excellent - and the whole UK remaining in the customs union (did May read my posts on this thread ? 8) )
Citizens rights respected for those already there and the ECJ around to enforce the promises - better than nothing
Now there needs to be a trade agreement that satisfies 27 countries that are in the same customs block. This is where it gets tricky. Macron will block anything that allows the UK to lead a race to the bottom socially and fiscally and benefit from it. this is where you find the cake so dry you can't swallow it and Brexit chokes to death. 😛
oh edukator have some faith in us will you we will talk big then at the last minute ditch all our principles, capitulate and agree to anything 😉
I suspect the outcome will be we pay more., have less access and less influence over the EU than if we stayed
Its beyond parody this and a result no one wanted beforehand
Nope - sorry didn’t get past first point
Hard brexit seems to have been choked - good thing - now on to unique deal for UK. But yes this will be tough
We can but hope.
Otherwise we'll get the most pointless Brexit ever, where we stay in the all the bits of the EU that the Brexies hated, while simultaneously paying handsomely for the privilege, losing our Grants/Rebates and losing our seat at the table to 'nope' the crazier federalist plans that they are baking up.
Great job! What was the point?
It seems to me to be just kicking the can down the road, but possibly lining up either stay in CU/SM later on or as good as by having permanent regulatory alignment (albeit without the ability to influence unless we are clever enough to influence the way Norway does)
We have always set out to ensure ACCESS TO the SM and CU from the start
Ed any reason why you chose to ignore Junkers comments that “today’s result is of course a compromise” when claiming (incorrectly) that the UK has agreed to UK original demands?
Nope - sorry didn’t get past first point
Which means you so hate other people being proved right you can't bring yourself to read it, or more probably you read it and it so upset you that you promptly posted some nonsense about not having read it.
Pathetic
Edit: of course Junker said it was a compromise. He's a good diplomat, an often drunk and always smarmy diplomat but to the end a diplomat capable of dressing up a win as a compromise for the sake of diplomacy. He got where he is by rubbing everybody up the right way whareas the Brexit team members have got where they are rubbing up the good people the wrong way and the bad people the right way.
Everyone has access to the single market under WTO
Irish border issue has worrying text (see statement from Irish PM). It basically says if EU/UK do not reach an agreement it will fall back to full regulatory compliance. Clearly non-workable as if there isn’t a deal we should go to clean Brexit and WTO
From my perspective discussions heading in totally the wrong direction.
"kicking the can done the road" is exactly what the UK wanted, we always maintained that some issues couldn't be fully resolved without trade talks and that has essentially been accepted.
From my perspective discussions heading in totally the wrong direction.
That's reassuring.
No I simple noted that your first point was 100% incorrect. It did get better tbf but poor start. Do you hate “our” gov so much that you could bring yourself to check the facts?
Farage is seriously pissed off
This can only ever be a good thing
😀
57bn or post something to prove me wrong, THM, I'm happy to be proved wrong but would like a link. That's close enough to the original round-number 60bn being mooted hundreds of pages back to satisfy me as a European.
Edit: I've never said I hate the Btiish government, please don't put words into my mouth. I used to very much enjoy listening to Jo Cox and there are no doubt some other good people but they haven't made it into European media sources.
They can access [ trade] with the EU/single market but they cannot access [ free trade] the single market in any meaningful definition of the term- fallacy of equivocation thereEveryone has access to the single market under WTO
We want to be able to have tariff free access which you must be aware of
Edukator - Reformed TrollFrom my perspective discussions heading in totally the wrong direction.
That's reassuring.
😀
just what I was thinking
From my perspective discussions heading in totally the wrong direction.
That's cheered me up a bit.
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Tell me this...
Can I still buy my chocolates tariffs free?
Tell me this...
Can I still buy my chocolates tariffs free?
The bespoke deal for the confectionery sector has been allocated approximately 17 minutes of discussion time at some point in July 2018. Wait your turn. 😀
So there's no chocolate impact assessment?
Jamba,that's very reassuring,probably the nicest thing you've said for ages.
[quote=zippykona ]So there's no chocolate impact assessment?
there is a galaxy of them all suggesting a Boost for the industry
NB not eaten chocolate for about 20 years do they even do these bars?
And further more,Nige agrees with you http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-42276855
Everyone has access to the single market under WTO
if we leave EU without a deal and trade with EU under WTO, the EU are bound by law to impose tariffs on use, otherwise they break the "most favoured nation" rules of WTO and will be deluged by disputes from countries outside the EU
suggesting a Boost for the industry
That's the last thing the industry needs, yet more bloody standards.
At least you weren't out of date enough to suggest marathon trade talks.
[quote=thejesmonddingo ]And further more,Nige agrees with you http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-42276855
br />
Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage says of the deal, "It's not Brexit, we voted to leave the European Union."She (the PM) has given a foreign court jurisdiction over us for many years to come."
He added: "Now at best we will not be leaving until 2021 and the next general election will be fought n this issue".
i'm snickering at these chocolate puns.
Of course under nige and his racist mates, all dark chocolate will be banned.
Still,Nige will find it easier to get his pension 😈
What's the crux of this? Are we heading for a stealth noBrexit?
At this rate May will have us signed up to the euro as part of the deal to "leave" 😆
It is possible Mrs May is the most adept politician in the Nasty Party,she has achieved her original goal of Remain,whilst presenting it to the swivel eyed loons as a Soft Brexit. She will retire on a high note 😀
Possibly a 50 Euro note !!
jambalaya>
Everyone has access to the single market under WTO
What does that actually mean? If I make widgets in Botswana or Palau then I can sell them to people inside the European single market, but that's not the same as me being IN the single market myself.
Gove has already expressed his admiration for the deal. Take it he hasn't read it yet. And Bojo has to fly to Iran today to try to repair the damage he caused earlier, so is unavailable for smoke-filled rooms* this weekend.
*not currently smoke-filled due to over-regulation.
Considering all the crap she has/is enduring and the almost impossible nature of the task, she could emerge from this with the last laugh. The incompetent remainer who just pulls off a Brexshit deal. That would be ironic ( and a relief)
What's the crux of this? Are we heading for a stealth noBrexit?
Looks like we are giving up membership of the EU but retaining access to the SM via a new form of trade agreement.
Still marathon talks twix now and Brexshit and the real crunchie time. Is there room for a new Malteser adjustment for everyone to revel in?
[quote=thejesmonddingo ]It is possible Mrs May is the most adept politician in the Nasty Party,she has achieved her original goal of Remain,whilst presenting it to the swivel eyed loons as a Soft Brexit. She will retire on a high note
Indeed. She may be doing her own Verbal Kint performance right in front of our eyes, and we're all being hoodwinked.
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So everyone in NI gets to retain their EU citizenship says the G (including ironically my friend from Derry who voted Leave ... and since applied for Irish passports for his kids!), but I'm English so I don't.
So how is that not treating NI differently to the rest of the country?
mattjg - Member
So everyone in NI gets to retain their EU citizenship says the G (including ironically my friend from Derry who voted Leave), but I'm English so I don't.So how is that not treating NI differently to the rest of the country?
Indeed. The SNP will be all over this by about 11am today.
they do anyway as they are all Irish* and can get an Irish passport
If its the case that NI citizens can get it via just being in the UK then expects a shit storm from disgruntled folk from the other nations - including some English- but esp the Scottish who voted to remain
* I assume many loyalists disagree but they can still get an irish passport
So you accuse me of lying, THM, "100% incorrect" you said and then fail to post a link to prove me wrong because you can't because I'm right.
You are a dishonourable person.
they do anyway as they are all Irish* and can get an Irish passport
sure I realise. but the context has changed, they're still getting treated differently post-Brexit to the rest of the country, we're getting stripped of ours (personally, against my consent), they're not.
The wording seems imply "hard brexit" can never happen?
The wording seems imply "hard brexit" can never happen?
yeah that's my sense of it.
all the bluster was BS, it'll be compliance with no influence.
may as well stay in then!
True but hey this part of the price of bringing back control and a red white and blue brexitsure I realise. but the context has changed, they're still getting treated differently post-Brexit to the rest of the country, we're getting stripped of ours (personally, against my consent), they're not.
TBH we are in a position where no-one is happy now not those who voted for or those who voted against it yet still we will press on 😕
he just wants a response - preferably an upset/emotional one - so why do you bother to keep giving it to him? We all know what he is doing here so why feed?You are a dishonourable person.
dannyh - Member
@dannyh one of the advatages of a WTO Brexit (or “no deal” if you prefer) is that it is a clean break.
@Jamby.A clean break isn't always a good thing. Just saying it sounds like a line from Eastenders.
What is it you think we need a clean break from?
What regulations would you like to see us unburdened from and to what aim?
What do you think it is about the EU that actually holds us back, how is Brexit going to solve these issues and do you think that even if we do become more prosperous after Brexit (which I think 95% of people think is impossible), that the extra prosperity will benefit a majority or just a minority?
POSTED 10 HOURS AGO #
Sorry, Jamby, if you have already replied to this one. I have skimmed the last few pages looking for an answer and can't see one.
Ninfan put a reply up which seemed to be along the lines of really only wanting to deal with countries that used to be part of the empire and have English as their first language, but I haven't seen anything from you.
I struggle to see how deregulation ever achieves anything but lining the pockets of the few at the expense of the many, chiefly because the existing regulation is generally more protective than restrictive (although the fascist press always try chipping away at 'elf un safety').
It is this narrative of being freed up from something that worries me as it is a Trojan horse for cowboy capitalism in my view. The sort of capitalism that is beautifully illustrated by the likes of Cecil Rhodes, whose sheer bravado, bluff, bullying and courting of power allowed massive exploitation.
True but hey this part of the price of bringing back control and a red white and blue brexit
Isn't it pink white and blue now? I heard the red bits got a bit faded.
GrahamS - MemberTrue but hey this part of the price of bringing back control and a red white and blue brexit
Isn't it pink white and blue now? I heard the red bits got a bit faded.
And some orange bits, added for good measure.
Think it's just a white flag we're waving now
Don't fudge the issue can I buy my chocolate or not?
Go and check what the EU wanted, what we proposed, andwere we ended up. Then come repeat your incorrect first poInt if you choose Ed
Posting stuff that is incorrect is more dishonourable than pointing this out. You have the choice to stop doing it. No one else can control that