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We should just have a [b]smart-cunning-manipulative[/b]-lying-brexit-poster face-off.
Don't forget:
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In other news, Turkey isn't joining the EU, but Boris Johnson wouldn't mind getting a piece of the action if it ever goes ahead. Or something.
Or a picture of a thicko.
Regardless, my point still stands: politicians who whipped up fears about immigration can hardly now turn around and say they want an open border with Ireland.
One of my (least) favourite bits of manipulation…
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Or a picture of a thicko.
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The rest of the world looking on in bemusement.
former Irish prime minister Bertie Ahern yesterday described Mrs May ‘out of her depth’ and that Mr Corbyn was ‘beginning to look like he may be the next Prime Minister’.Speaking in Dublin, Mr Ahern said: ‘They [the Tories] have a weak Prime Minister who is only there because the other headbangers who were on the Brexit side were fighting each other at the time. She came up the middle.
‘I feel sorry for her because she is totally out of her depth.’
Better picture of the Brexit Secretary
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So that's why Hunt was trying to scare the swivel-eyed brexies to stop weakening May.
They mustve seen the latest survation poll
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and the amusing thing about the national curry day, and the breaking point poster.
most Indian restaurants are staffed by Bangladeshis, and Bangladeshis are predominantly muslims.....
Jesus, how shit are the Tories at carrying this through?
Again, I feel sorry for our forum Tory shills (including the “neutrals” 😆 ) - forced by their sense of duty to flip between defending the bishop bashing Green to saying “you didn’t like those red lines? Ok we have new red lines. You’re gonna love these red lines. They’re beautiful”
Hilarious.
The chefs from Asia backed the Leave vote , but within months they realized it was a big mistake , especially after TM visit to India where she said immigration would still be restricted .
So new week and hopefully more progress. We may even get on to trade by Dec/Jan at this rate.
The moans will get shriller and shriller while businesses' relief will become more palpable...
Anyone else notice the overt multicultural theme in this year's Christmas TV ads?
Brexit backlash from remainer companies and ad agencies perhaps?
The moans will get shrilled and shrilled
I know didn't redwood, IDS, Lawson, Mogg put out some sort of wailing statement today about how it should be WTO only ?
The benefits for the EU of UK leaving.
We may even get on to trade by Dec/Jan at this rate.The moans will get shriller and shriller while businesses' relief will become more palpable...
You Mean May has capitulated on the CU as well...
How would it be hypocritical to take EU pension and golden parachute payment (€160,000 for Farage I believe) ? He campaigned for our exit as an elected MEP, thise who voted for him voted for him to do that job and be paid for it, pension and all.
Anyway you still need to get us that list of WTO only countries
@mike its a redundant question as [b]we[/b] won’t be trading only on WTO. We have put in place the mechanism to transfer all 60 EU “free trade deals” and we’ll be signing others tout de suite. Canada has already made clear they want replicate and extend their CETA deal, Australia, NZ, Japan and yes the USA will follow. The EU is a [b]protectionist racket[/b], it is the Uk which cares about free trade.
BTW on that video I posted it says the Canada / EU deal really only took 3 years starting from scratch
May and the Tories are motivated to sign new deals before the next GE in 2023 to show material progress post Brexit. IMO a “bad ”deal with say Japan or US will still be materially better than our qdsappalling EU arrangement and will of course be payment free and no Japanese Court of Justice
Anyway my predictions for Monday and the EU summit.
No “sufficient progress” announcement, dramatic music
Many “we’re tough” EU pontifications
Actual agreement to step up “preparitory” work on UK / EU trade in the event of “sufficient progress”
“Sufficient pogress” declared sometime after Merkel forms a government, mid Jan ?
On a more serious note; don't even mention Euratom. TM, DD, BJ and MG have got a freeking clue when they signed the up the UK to leave Euratom. The incompetency is mind blowing. Even more so when they asked the Nuclear Inspectorate to write the risk impact after they said we were leaving.
May (we) will fold on NI, as she has with Divorce bill & ECJ etc.
Just gonna be keeping the DUP happy when she offers NI some sort of CU deal..... Wait and see what sturgeon (or Davidson for that matter) says to that!
Meanwhile a majority of the country now fancy a second referendum (for the record I don’t).
Will of the people.
@jambalaya - I am certainly not an expert on this, but surely it is not certain that we will adopt grandfather rights to trade deals. Its a gamble and against WTO trade rules and any oppostiion from WTO members? To say "we will..." is presumptive unless supported on evidence. I guess we will wait and see.
@mike its a redundant question as we won’t be trading only on WTO. We have put in place the mechanism to transfer all 60 EU “free trade deals” and we’ll be signing others tout de suite. Canada has already made clear they want replicate and extend their CETA deal, Australia, NZ, Japan and yes the USA will follow. The EU is a protectionist racket, it is the Uk which cares about free trade.
Wow, you here all week with jokes like that? What does the UK have to offer these countries, and what does the UK have to strong arm negotiations to get the same terms? How long will these magic deals take to negotiate? Chances of them being ready and in place in 2019 are zero.
We have put in place the mechanism to transfer all 60 EU “free trade deals”
Not what our Liam has been saying Jamba. Mind you I doubt he knows what his department is doing to be fair.
The EU is a protectionist racket,
As are all trade tariffs and trade deals. Why have them otherwise?
And imagine having worked out your inside the protection racket and pointing out how tough they make it for everyone else and then suggesting being on the wrong side of it.
The "positives" of Brexit is still being pushed?
Seriously, there isn't any.
Incredible. 😯
The EU is a protectionist racket,
No, it actually isn't. It has reduced tariffs between its member countries.
IGM - tut, tut. Read the text not the headline
May and the Tories are motivated to sign new deals before the next GE in 2023
2022, before we consign these ****s to the dustbin of history. If not sooner.
Tick tock.
theotherjonv - Member
May and the Tories are motivated to sign new deals before the next GE in 2023
2022, before we consign these **** to the dustbin of history. If not sooner.Tick tock.
I really don't think they will last that long.
God,I hope not anyway...
THM - Liam or the will of the people? Read both as it happens.
Liam’s admitting to finding it all a bit difficult.
The people want another referendum (which they won’t get) though the upstanding remainer versus traitorous Brexy split is interesting.
That help?
So a mere 3 years of no trade deals, then those that are signed will be a hasty one. That does assume there isn't an election before then. Certainly looks like a leadership challenge will happen from the SEL's when May concedes another red line. That is before we start begging for a trade deal.
No, it doesn't.
See if you have get it right by the time of the early train 😉
Just because it don’t agree with your view of the world THM doesn’t mean it ain’t true.
Sorry and all. 😉
No need to apologise. It's just I expected an engineer to value precision and accuracy. My mistake 😉
We have put in place the mechanism to transfer all 60 EU “free trade deals” and we’ll be signing others tout de suite.
Jamba, it simply is not possible for any country to cut'n'paste an existing trade deal with the EU into one with the UK solely, even if they wanted to. They all need rewriting. Officials from all countries involved have said that when they are renegotiated, they will seek to rebalance based on accessing a much smaller market. You can be all bubbly and optimistic and expect that to not mean worse terms if you want to. The way that all the key countries are responding to our WTO proposals suggests otherwise though… they'll look to use our self imposed weak position to improve their own (as you'd expect).
Now, new deals, rather than watered down existing deals… which country will sign one with us before the EU? All the examples you have cited are countries that have said that an EU deal comes first… yes, even Trump's administration. So… waiting longer for deals, and getting worse deals… as you'd expect. The EU+EEA market matters far more to all trading partners.
We should seek EEA and CU involvement, to keep existing trade deals, and get new ones as soon as possible, and solve the Irish border issue, and give UK companies certainty as regards trade with all counties (not just EU ones), and keep supply chains moving, and…
…still means relinquishing lots of control though… but all options from here on in do that, as far as I can see.
Theresa May and the Irish government have failed to reach a deal on the crucial Brexit issue of the Northern Ireland border ahead of a crunch meeting on Monday lunchtime with the European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker.Despite intense efforts over the weekend to agree a proposal on how to avoid a hard border in Ireland, Irish officials revealed at midnight on Sunday that “there is still a way to go” to achieve a meeting of minds on the issue.
So the Irish are not accepting a pixie dust and magic border
...Irish border to be patrolled by unicorns, don't forget the unicorns 😉
Its the end of the world as we know it.
I prefer to believe that Coveney is a man of his word. He was clear yesterday.
Let’s see what the lunch brings
border at the Irish sea and another bung for the DUP?
teamhurtmore - Member
No need to apologise. It's just I expected an engineer to value precision and accuracy. My mistake
Understood. You, like many people, are labouring under a misapprehension. Engineering is about close enough. Good engineers are the ones who know what “close enough” means. I may on occasion value precision and accuracy - but I also know its cost.
And imagine having worked out your inside the protection racket and pointing out how tough they make it for everyone else and then suggesting being on the wrong side of it.
Yep who'd have thunkd it.
DUP have rejected that Oldnpastit [url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/theresa-mays-other-hard-brexit-front/amp/ ]DUP insist NI leaves EU under the same conditions as the rest of the UK[/url]
What are they going to do about it?
If they stop supporting the Tories, and bring down the government, they'll get Jeremy Corbyn instead.
And anyway, is that a principle or a negotiating position?
If the dup don’t like it and they collapse the Tory government ,surely they will still be in the same position but with a strong labour government?
Can someone explain the border at sea bit please?
Still got till Wednesday really b4 the summit.
The brexies on here been very silent on Ireland, free trade fantasys all great, but it's about the affect on the lives of the million+ people immediately affected by a hard border, barely given a thought by the true believers.
Funnily enough as this was all their idea you'd think that they'd take some responsibility.
Standard Tory/ brexie incompetence meant that the NI white paper (the widely mocked pixie dust & unicorns one) was put out BEFORE the UK gov had done it's fact finding trip/impact assessment to NI so, sadly this last minute scramble was very predictable.
DUP & some Tories will bitterly oppose special deal for NI that aligns them more with EU than UK, so Davis & May & Tory whips going to be having more sleepless nights than Trump at this rate. ( Also sturgeon would flap wildly , as would Davidson)
But I remoane too much
Isn't last real chance infact 15th B4 EU summit?
We might see an Xmas miracle yet !
NI in the EU via customs union or some such [ so no border in ireland]but GB not so the real border between us and the EU is in the Irish seaCan someone explain the border at sea bit please?
Clearly the DUP wont accept this as there is no one more British than the children of Protestant settlers we placed in ireland some 3 centuries ago- they wont be any less british than we are or have any barrier between us and NI.
Cannot happen and a Tory govt remain
Also a lot of hardline Tories won't accept a CU border round the whole of Eire, funnily enough they're also some hardcore Brexies.
So expect any and all blame to be heaped on the EU & Irish gov, rather than those who campaigned & voted for Brexit....
What do the eu want the border to be like?
Not so long ago certain people were howling for europe to be turned into a fortress.
What if the eu don't want a weak link in their border?
oldnpastit - Memberborder at the Irish sea and[s] another bung for[/s] shaft the DUP
Junkyard - lazarusNI in the EU via customs union or some such [ so no border in ireland]but GB not so the real border between us and the EU is in the Irish sea
Clearly the DUP wont accept this as there is no one more British than the children of Protestant settlers we placed in ireland some [b]3 centuries ago[/b]- they wont be any less british than we are or have any barrier between us and NI.
Four centuries ago, but yes, there's much truth to what you say. Putting up a hard border between NI and ROI (and the trouble that's sure to follow) would actually legitimize the DUP. Their entire culture and mindset is based on their Britishness and the suppression of Catholic/Irish/Nationalism.
Forcing taigs to go through British army checkpoints at gunpoint, having to state their name, address, where they are going, what they are doing or risk being strip searched and their car torn apart would suit them down to the ground. What could be more British.
Never mind all the billions in EU aid they're losing or 33% of their exports to ROI including 25% of their manufacturing 🙄
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/04/ireland-no-go-ahead-for-brexit-talks-to-move-on
Ireland playing hard ball. This is really going to piss off some Tories who see the republic as a dependency who should know their place.
Ireland playing hard ball.
Ah but is it Shinty or Hurling? 😉
..and yet, there are differences between NI and the rUK that are acceptable to the DUP. Like abortion.
What happens if EU refuse to move on and we crash out with no deal - won't that be the worst case situation for the border?
What if the eu want a hard border and ROI don’t?
Did anyone think of this before the vote?
Why would any brexiter care about what the EU and ROI wanted!
What if the eu want a hard border and ROI don’t?
Did anyone think of this before the vote?
I don't think anyone WANTS a hard border, WTO rules amongst others demand it.
It's a mess. A colossal SNAFU.
At the very least, we should have had a Public Inquiry last year after the referendum. Instead, what happened was a de-facto coup, with the Hard Right owning all the narratives. The goalposts shifted radically, the Brexit we're looking at now is wholly unrecognisable from that stated on the ballot paper in 2016.
What happens if EU refuse to move on and we crash out with no deal - won't that be the worst case situation for the border?
Don't think it makes any difference. WTO demands a border is in place, so UK leaves and HAS to establish a border with or without a deal. Plenty on both side in NI would seize the chance to go back 40 years without a thought.
UK either remains in CU to avoid border or erects border. or places the border outside the island of Ireland, which is pretty damn close to defacto reunification....
Wow:
[i]BREAKING: UK will concede that there will be no "regulatory divergence" on the island of Ireland on the single market and customs union, acc to a draft text seen by @rtenews[/i]
Wow:BREAKING: UK will concede that there will be no "regulatory divergence" on the island of Ireland on the single market and customs union, acc to a draft text seen by @rtenews
So we are taking back control of.... nothing?
somewhere in prodestant heaven......
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Crossing all my fingers that this really is as reported. The repercussions are likely to mean a "close" deal really can be achieved. Government will need (and probably get) support from Labour to get this through parliament though, plenty of "all of UK out of everything" Tories will be rabid.
and as seen on Twitter, when does Scotland ask for same treatment as NI as well? Whats good for one devolved region is obviously good for another...
I still can't figure why the daffy dups don't want a hard border.
mrmo - Member
and as seen on Twitter, when does Scotland ask for same treatment as NI as well?
when they are propping up a minority government ( which might be quite soon 😉 )
and as seen on Twitter, when does Scotland ask for same treatment as NI as well?when they are propping up a minority government
Seems like more cloud-cuckoo-land thinking from the Brexies. You can't have one rule for Northern Ireland, and one for the rest of the UK, surely? Isn't the whole point of the single market and customs union that one rule applies to all? So it's all or nothing? You're either in or you're out?
I'm sure the Daily Heil, IDS, Farage and the rest of the fruitloops are getting themselves worked up into a foaming-at-the-mouth frenzy at this 'Betrayal!'
and a little off topic/back to yesterday
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[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/04/theresa-may-heads-to-brussels-hoping-to-conclude-phase-one-of-brexit-talks-politics-live ]Looks like that's another one of Theresa's famous red lines that's bitten the du[/url]st then?
How long before Barnier has a full house of them?
End of the week?
Will this mean cheap bits from CRC?
Will this mean cheap bits from CRC?
Will wiggle still close the NI/CRC warehouse or relocate to it? going to play havoc with customs.
Just had a low stock alert from Screwfix - they’ve had a big order for red paint. Something about some new lines being painted.
I do hope we have to employ a lot more civil servants to sort it all out.
Will wiggle still close the NI/CRC warehouse or relocate to it? going to play havoc with customs.
Relocate south of the border to serve the ROW customers
Relax; I am sure the ministry for Brexit misinformation will be along soon to explain what a glorious victory this is for Great Britain.
mrmo - MemberWill this mean cheap bits from CRC?
Will wiggle still close the NI/CRC warehouse or relocate to it? going to play havoc with customs.
Only bikes left in NI now.