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Oddly enough looking through the history books its the proto dictatorships who did the vote once and thats it approach. Why do you support it?
You shouldn't be so unkind about our SNP supporting cousins.
and we will be able to watch you do after the next one if you win it and it happens.Its hilarious seeing people try to justify a and once and forever vote.
That wouldn't be a once and forever would it?
Oh look - more whataboutery about scotland - you can tell when someones lost an argument.
t
I don't support a second referendum either. We had a big opinion poll in June last year, that's all.
Anything else is noise. Let's just get on and try to run the country in a constructive manner for once, eh? I'm sure that notion isn't even beyond May if she actually put her mind to it.
teamhurtmore - Member
You WILL keep voting until you do what Europe wants
Oh come off it.
The uninformed tabloid reading public were mislead. That is crystal clear. Enough mislead to swing an advisory referendum result.
We know who bankrolls the tabloids and why they are doing it, and we know thier links with British politicians.
To carry that crap through to destruction of the country is beyond criminal, it's evil.
And the poor sods that voted for it are too proud to admit they voted without having any real idea about the ramifications.
I recently met a British ex pat in Spain, who agreed with brexit.. I didn't take measurements, but I'd guess his arms are longer than his legs, and he was wearing an English football shirt.
You shouldn't be so unkind about our SNP supporting cousins.
Want to put money on it?
Maybot did get a nice hug off Junker & a big hug for Davis
It's love !
matty - and the polls show that there would be a a remain majority - thats why these right wingers ( who want a destruction of workers rights) are running scared of a second referendum
I don't like the idea either - but its the only way to spike the guns of the xenophobic press
Oh look - May got zero in her paniced crisis talks attempt
Theresa May’s last-ditch attempt to persuade European leaders to open talks on a transition period look doomed to fail as Downing Street appeared to rule out fresh concessions on the UK’s divorce bill and Brussels hardened its approach days away from a crunch summit.
I don't like the idea either - but its the only way to spike the guns of the xenophobic press
Well, it's not really. We could always pass stronger laws demanding accuracy in reporting and outlawing hate-mongering.
So now the objective of the undemocrats is simply to get their own back on the press!!
What next in the crass excuses - people were not intelligent enough to read the press properly. They will be posting links to their favourite rags to prove (false) points next
And this comes from folk who were perfectly to be happy to be lied to by the Gnats who were very ill prepared and didn’t even know what currency to use! The hypocrisy is breathtaking, except for the obvious fact re who is saying what 😉
Well, it's not really. We could always pass stronger laws demanding accuracy in reporting and outlawing hate-mongering.
Oddly enough looking through the history books its the proto dictatorships that try to shackle the press.
Zokes we could then apply it here and half the posts would disappear and we would all lose out in the laughs
Much better for people to be allowed to show themselves up as purveyors of BS
Well, it's not really. We could always pass stronger laws demanding accuracy in reporting and outlawing hate-mongering.
I agree completely, freedom of speech is crucial.
Those who take that to the extreme though, those who seek to manipulate large audiences knowing full well it's not true, that's not free speech.
That's manipulation of people who are less informed. You could call it psychological abuse.
So now the objective of the undemocrats is simply to get their own back on the press!!
And boom remoaner is dead now it undemocratic, read the T&C's before complaining. Parliament can review this democratically, governments can be removed and directions changed. That is democratic so take the lame trolls somewhere else or read up a little more on democracy.
The tag team use that tactic on here nearly every day
Oddly enough looking through the history books its the proto dictatorships that try to shackle the press.
That would look far better if the same person had made both statements.
As it is considering an equally effective tactic is to buy off press barons it fails.
It is an interesting issue how to ensure a free press but also ensure that the press owners have an interest in the country. Personally I would start with requiring them to be citizens of the relevant country. Soon find out how much they are willing to put their personal money where their media is.
Beware THM, you’re looking like half of tonight’s tag team.
Just sayin’
Incidentally the geometry on that Cervelo looks like the PX RT-58 sportive bike I have at the moment.
So now the objective of the undemocrats is simply to get their own back on the press!!
Whereas yours is to construct strawmen.
Personally I would start with requiring them to be citizens of the relevant country.
Do the Americans not require that? Not sure exactly how democratic they are but the didn’t used to be a dictatorship.
teamhurtmore -
So now the objective of the undemocrats is simply to get their own back on the press!!
I think, realistically, everyone would be happy if they just reported as objectively as possible.
Oddly enough looking through the history books its the proto dictatorships that try to shackle the press.
They don't typically do it by requesting more accurate reporting, though.
Beware THM, you’re looking like half of tonight’s tag team.
You should be working out how to get your bill to withdraw Article 50 through parliament.
They don't typically do it by requesting more accurate reporting, though.
I'm sure they think it is more accurate.
Mefty
A50 - they’ll sort that out themselves without my help.
Shutting down the press / accurate reporting - Agreed. See Donald “false news” Trump
So how do the talks advance?
Maybot can't afford the political capital to give away more cash for the exit deal- her Brexies & the rabid rw press would destroy her.
Germany & France won't progress talks unless she does....
Is it time to start turning the lawn into a veg patch as Grayling is now suggesting?
You can take action on the press if they are publishing false information, if they have misrepresented the government, we can publicly grill them on their behaviour and funding/editorial positions. The laws on retraction could be improved (same size as original article) some could be looked at for insighting also.
Doesn't have to go all Trump does it,
The beauty of this is most of the more accurate press wouldn't support the government....
How negotiations always proceed. Little steps and compromises
IGM! i would be honourec to be tagged with the Mefty rather than shamed to be tagged to people who make things up and more worrying might nit even realise
[hate sportive'/ geometry and feel BTW ]
A50 -they’ll sort that out themselves without my help.
How? This is a key point, which people fail to grasp. The government don't need the bill to take us out Our exit will be even more disorderly if it is not passed, but it will still happen.
I'm sure they think it is more accurate.
You think that, say, Goebbels saw himself as an honest chronicaler of his times?
Mefty - by MPs requiring it. Enough cross party support and it will happen. Either we're at cross purposes or you’re deliberately misunderstanding something.
THM - “hate sportive'/ geometry and feel BTW”. I know. You said. Which is why it surprised me when I checked the Cervelo’s stated geometry against my old man, bad back bike.
PS - THM, beware Mefty can be a bit barrack room lawyer at times. I mean not daft, but a bit know it all without creative thinking. On here that is. I wouldn’t know in real life.
You think that, say, Goebbels saw himself as an honest chronicaler of his times?
It is certainly possible, not something I have considered in detail, but he was a true believer.
by MPs requiring it. Enough cross party support and it will happen. Either we're at cross purposes or you’re deliberately misunderstanding something.
But they need to pass a law, if the government avoids the amendment by withdrawing their present bill, which they don't need to take us out. The remainers bill will not be on the Government's timetable, which I beleive means it can be talked out.
But they need to pass a law, if the government avoids the amendment by withdrawing their present bill, which they don't need to take us out.
The complete mess that will leave would have to force action from one side. Do you think the stuff that is being objected to is unreasonable?
The government could repair the damage with a new bill after we leave which would have retrospective effect so there is no gap. In practice, it won't come to pass, the power dynamic is such that reasonable amendments will be negotiated with the result that the Tories "rebels" will vote with the government.
How negotiations always proceed. Little steps and compromises
at what cost
torygraph saying that Brexit has already cost £bns of foreign investment
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
will a deal at the last minute be too late for many companies, Rolls Royce moving to EU actually a likely outcome?
https://www.ft.com/content/b1650b02-b1c8-11e7-aa26-bb002965bce8?mhq5j=e5
and the damage done to EU workers already shameful according to remoaniac CBI
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/11/uk-treatment-eu-workers-blight-nation-says-cbi/
The government could repair the damage with a new bill after we leave which would have retrospective effect so there is no gap.
OK, do you think the current one is resonable? Do you think the MP's have valid concearns?
How does approaching the deadline with no firm plan going to inspire confidence?
Do you think that imposing rule from a weak position, not representing the majority is a good thing? Should there be no debate on these issues?
I am certain they do not and would go as far as say they often publish things they know are complete BS like the hatchet job on Ed Millibands father.I'm sure they think it is more accurate.
Freedom of the press is critical to any democracy lying bulshiting/distortion/lies* in the press is not.
* Granted there would be a large debate on where these intersect and for the record i am not a fan of regulating the press but they are not honourable protectors of our rights using free speech for noble reasons, in the main, and often do little more than to serve the interests of their owners and their agenda whilst peddling bulshiting/distortion/lies, Never understood why the tv is highly regulated and the press not.
OK, do you think the current one is resonable? Do you think the MP's have valid concearns?
Haven't read the whole thing, but had read some of the "offending" clauses and they are not as unreasonable as portrayed, they could be tightened up a bit to give more parliamentary oversight, but I certainly don't think it should be any more onerous than that which the relevant laws were introduced under.
How does approaching the deadline with no firm plan going to inspire confidence?
There is a plan, it has been articulated in speeches, it may not inspire your confidence but it seems perfectly sensible to me.
Do you think that imposing rule from a weak position, not representing the majority is a good thing?
They are delivering what the people voted for.
Should there be no debate on these issues?
Well I think the war was lost when Article 50 was triggered so of course debate can take place but its pretty futile. It is far more sensible to accept reality.
mefty - MemberThey are delivering what the people voted for.
£350 million for the NHS?
Zokes we could then apply it here and half the posts would disappear and we would all lose out in the laughs
It would certainly mean we'd never have to suffer yours or Jamby's deranged ranting...
There is a plan, it has been articulated in speeches, it may not inspire your confidence but it seems perfectly sensible to me.
Sorry all I saw were meaningless soundbites.
They are delivering what the people voted for.
Ah we don't know what that was apart from 1 thing, the solution to the problem is vast and complex and being driven at the moment by a minority of a minority.
Well I think the war was lost when Article 50 was triggered so of course debate can take place but its pretty futile. It is far more sensible to accept reality.
What like debate the laws to be implemented? The stuff that is not planned to be debated? The things the UK could and should conceede to ensure a good deal? What a good deal is? The current government is not inspiring any confidence in delivering anything good, Business is saying that, foreign workers are saying that, lots of people are saying that.
This specific debate was about how the UK looks after leaving the EU, it's themost significant bit of the legislation that needs to take place. It is the fundermental way forward for the citizens, residents and others that will take place. This is exactly the sort of stuff that needs rigourus debate and scrutiny. To not do that would be undemocratic 😉
In international matters, governments negotiate, it is impracticable for parliaments who are not at the table, to have a say other than a final vote on the deal. This has always been the case. A vote on the deal will take place but it will be the deal on the table or nothing, hence the war was lost when Article 50 was triggered.
. The laws on retraction could be improved (same size as original article) some could be looked at for insighting also.
Doesn't have to go all Trump does it,
Exactly. No surprise that the usual extremists chose to deliberately misinterpret the suggestion.
In international matters, governments negotiate, it is impracticable for parliaments who are not at the table, to have a say other than a final vote on the deal.
No the laws that will need to be in place, the laws that need to replace the EU ones to preserve the rights of the people of the UK on things like working hours, H&S, Environmental Law and human rights. That is the stuff that needs proper oversight and scrutiny.
A vote on the deal will take place but it will be the deal on the table or nothing, hence the war was lost when Article 50 was triggered.
You miss the obvious other interpretation of "...or nothing", which is: no deal, no Brexit.
A quick summary of what we are actually talking about...
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-parliaments-41607238
They seek it here, they seek it there - but the centrepiece of the government's Brexit legislation, the EU (Withdrawal) Bill, seems to have gone into hiding.
Most Westminster observers expected the Commons to embark on eight days of detailed debate, in Committee of the Whole House, pretty much as soon as their conference recess was over.
Eyebrows were raised when it was not on this week's agenda - and they shot skywards when it was not put on the agenda for next week.
It is not a postponement, because the committee stage has never been scheduled, but something seems to be afoot.What might it be? Challenged in Commons business questions by the SNP's Pete Wishart, Leader of the House Andrea Leadsom noted that MPs had proposed more than 300 amendments and 54 new clauses to the Bill and these were being studied by ministers.
And there is little doubt that some of these pose a real threat to the government's tenuous Commons majority.
The threat-in-chief is posed by amendments from the Conservative former attorney general, Dominic Grieve, to limit ministers' powers to re-write the law in the process of enacting Brexit.
Remember, this Bill is designed to allow the government to reprocess four decades of accumulated EU law into British law, so that the UK has functional legislation on all kinds of crucial areas, come Brexit Day.
The powers are pretty sweeping, because the Bill provides a toolkit to build an edifice which has not yet been designed - and Mr Grieve's amendments express the qualms of some MPs (including those of many strong Brexiteers) about their extent. He is the man most likely to amend.
Eyebrows were raised
That's what disturbs me most.
The pound is taking a kicking, and our families in Europe don't know what's going on, and likewise European families in the UK don't know what's going on.
And all the British government can do is raise an eyebrow?
That's just offensive and an affront.
It's like our own government are playing games with our lives and futures, but care nothing about them.
You miss the obvious other interpretation of "...or nothing", which is: no deal, no Brexit.
Gone, parliament voted for Article 50.
That's just offensive and an affront.
But it takes both parties to take it off the table.
Gone, parliament voted for Article 50.
First step in the process...
It's a long road and although some seem to be in denial that it can be reveresed plent of people know it can. Parliment is restless, rebels are getting ready to rebel, the strong and stable government is hiding it's bill so it's not defeated - what comes next?
Until the day the UK leaves I hope that people will fight to ensure the madness of self destruction is stopped, if it can't be the impact of people must be scrutinised honestly - removing rights and protections was not in the [s]bullshit[/s] sales brochure.
Persuing a self destructing course for ideological reasons has never ended well. If public support drops further will their be the will to follow it through?
But it takes both parties to take it off the table.
I don't believe it does, we are in a novel situation. We could simply say, shit, sorry, we weren't thinking straight, too many jagger bombs last night.
But that is never going to happen, pride is apparently more important than people's lives.
We can argue the toss about Brexit all day long, however what seems to be lacking here is an evaluation of the monumental change in UK society - although it was probably not a change more of a "surfacing" of a general disenfranchisement of a group of people in the UK who were utilised by a minority political movement.
Much of this division appears to be due to the gap between education levels, without this division the rabid right and indignant pensioners would not have sufficient votes to make it happen. What is not discussed here is what we are left with post Brexit regardless of the outcome? It appears as if we have a fairly large part of the population that has a very different views from the other half that include not valuing education, free movement or a multi cultural communities.
We appear to have a society at odds with itself and this presents some serious challenges that include shocking productivity (is this a symptom of the disenfranchised not giving a **** about education and advancement? Poorly educated and motivated?)
As I have said before on here I am fundamentally a socialist yet my socialist ethics have been almost removed due to the attitude (rather than the vote) of many Brexiteers.
Things stick with people for a long time (Thatcher 30 years on)
We have a new divide and it will be with us for a long time, it will hamper our ability to recover from the madness of Brexit and I believe it has changed the fundamental views of many sensible, left leaning, responsible business people.
Again as I have said before I have disengaged from this society and slipped into self preservation mode, this will not make much difference in the grand scheme but 2 graduates don't have jobs with us and rather than investing in the business any spare cash is going into the pension fund to reduce tax burden and we are retaining cash rather than spending.
All of the above are delivering serious structural problems that seem to remain ignored.
Gone, parliament voted for Article 50.
Correct. So parliament votes on bad deal Brexit vs no Brexit, with the latter meaning withdrawal of A50. You've helpfully proven my point. Thank you.
Much of this division appears to be due to the gap between education levels, without this division the rabid right and indignant pensioners would not have sufficient votes to make it happen. What is not discussed here is what we are left with post Brexit regardless of the outcome? It appears as if we have a fairly large part of the population that has a very different views from the other half that include not valuing education, free movement or a multi cultural communities.
Education levels or income and wealth inequality?
Plenty of poorly educated older people who have done very well by effectivly being born at the right time. In my time I've met loads who simply kept going in the same place of work straight from school and ended up in charge of something through luck rather than anything else.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-16/australian-property-prices-rose-6556-per-cent-since-1961/9055066
Take a look at the report at the end for the UK figures - 6000% rise in house prices since the 60's, fee's, lack of adaquate pension provisions, job insecurity and much more. Governments that have pandered to the elderly and baby boomers, making policy to retain these at the expense of the young. Now people want to take away opportunity, trade, freedoms and it looks like a grab for rights and provisions on top of this. The current political climate is divisive and confruntational, division means people are told to dislike others and not to stick together. It's working, it's what delivered us Brexit and Trump.
Borrowed from a few pages back...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/16/theresa-may-brexit-cant-be-done
This could have been the most unifying speach for the country this year. Despite talking about it I don't see any actual evidence of the Tory party making any efforts to unify the country.
And this comes from folk who were perfectly to be happy to be lied to by the Gnats
It's all about Scotland for you isn't it! Obsessed, or what?
Following lobbying from France and Germany, it contained stronger language than a first draft leaked last week, demanding progress on all three of the opening withdrawal issues in order for trade talks to begin, and an additional mention of the need for a role for the European court of justice in protecting citizens rights.
I hope it was a nice dinner, anyway.
No DR, just don't like hypocrisy of the sort that keeps being displayed ie, that we're happy to swallow no plan and total BS when it suits us (freedom is worth the obvious costs) but not when it doesnt. That just shows the paucity in thinking on display, coupled with the bullying of dissent that goes with it.
As we investigate all the branches and twigs of the many trees, how many people simply miss the rather large wood? Whatever the individual motives, there is one common theme that keeps getting missed or deluberatly overlooked. People voted on the continuing membership of the EU - and that is the crux - and we know the result. More people voted to stop being members than voted to remain members
Miss that and the rest is irrelevant.
Miss that and the rest is irrelevant.
Nobody has missed that, when may stands up and says it can only be delivered at a huge cost to the nation and these are the stark and hard choices we need to make then it will be a start. Decision making is a live process she needs to carry the people with her.
Well that's a relief - the way you've been gassing on about Scotland for, literally, years, along with silly nicknames, I was starting to worry that your crush on La Nicola was getting the better of you.
More people voted to stop being members than voted to remain members
Miss that and the rest is irrelevant.
Ahh. That was what I was missing.
Now when we know that British public opinion has shifted from that, will you still force upon people an outcome they no longer want?
Is democracy a one off?
People voted on the continuing membership of the EU - and that is the crux
You really are struggling with this advisory referendum concept, aren't you.
They could have voted for free kittens for all, doesn't mean it can or has to happen.
On the contrary that simple truth is rarely discussed.
We tried the huge cost argument and people saw thought it then and now. You still miss the point. Not enough people see being members of the EU as being the answer to their issues. Some even see it as the cause of their problems. Either way, they - the majority of those who voted - want out. And that is what is happening whether we like it or not.
Given the strength of conviction, neither May not Corbyn would carry the nation with them since its fundamentally spilt in the issue. The other basic truth. Hence we have a new body that is determined to out-lie the other one. Neither serve us well.
The shift argument falls flat under scrutiny as we have seen several times over the last few pages. Hence the need to make the reference point a hard Brexshit (sic) rather than what is being actually being negotiated. More desperate lies and misrepresentation to avoid the central message.
THM - I’m not (read back a couple of pages I’m quite clear) suggesting that the shift in opinion is clear enough yet, though on a personal basis I think it most certainly will be by March 2019.
I am asking if once it is clear you will still see democracy as a one shot deal?
Given the strength of conviction, neither May not Corbyn would carry the nation with them since its fundamentally spilt in the issue. The other basic truth. Hence we have a new body that is determined to out-lie the other one. Neither serve us well.
Yes and every day people who voted Brexit shuffle off, people change their minds and public opinion shifts, more young people turn 18 and the demographics move along. Also lots of people are starting to work out that shock horror instead of £350 million a week to spend on whatever we want, there will be less money for essential services, prices are increasing and all the good things won't come to pass. The real questions are being asked and the current government doesn't have the answers, the conviction to lie confidently or the balls to admit the truth.
For the record I was against Scottish independence also as it was ideologically driven not practically. As my boss summed up, if anyone is going to screw us over we would prefer it to be us.
We have a new divide and it will be with us for a long time,
This
And it's not just an education or generational divide, it's an attainment one too, for many their postcode at birth determines their life expectancy, education, health, exposure to drugs, gambling, crime, careers the Brexiters used that discontent for their own ends, whatever form of Brexit we end up with, those little will not be helped, it'll just be more austerity (just for thm) infact government doing even less for then as Brexit sucks in all attention.
It's all gone a bit quiet on the unicorns. Hope mine is in the works.
Kittens are easy, try the local pet rescue.
shocking productivity (is this a symptom of the disenfranchised not giving a **** about education and advancement? Poorly educated and motivated?)
Don't think so. I reckon it's because of the relentless and creative drive for cost saving has undermined investment in skills and capability. At least in IT it has. Consequently no-one knows what the hell they are doing and everything is shit.
shocking productivity (is this a symptom of the disenfranchised not giving a **** about education and advancement? Poorly educated and motivated?)
Don't think so. I reckon it's because of the relentless and creative drive for cost saving has undermined investment in skills and capability. At least in IT it has. Consequently no-one knows what the hell they are doing and everything is shit.
IGM no it's not but neither is it a series on on-going plebiscites to suit whatever the mood is today.
for every argument about £350m we now have the government is pursuing a hard Brexshit. Neither is true but we know which one is on the highest volume right now!
There are no off the shelf solutions to our unique situation so the gov need to focus in delivering a brand new version, it very very hard but not helped but the complete BS that surrounding the whole process. That just makes the bad outcome more likely
Have the magic fairies turned up for duty at the Irish border yet?
for every argument about £350m we now have the government is pursuing a hard Brexshit. Neither is true but we know which one is on the highest volume right now!
Some factions of the government are pushing for it.
It's under debate if they are preparing for it.
You said they should be threatening it.
Based on current progress and the impossible problem in NI (still waiting for your thoughts on how to fix that one) and some other issues along with needing to please 2/3 of the EU members/voting group the actions of the UK government are (might not be conscious) taking the negotiations on a course that could explode.
May goes BJ/JRM dream team at the helm what's going to happen?
it very very hard but not helped but the complete BS that surrounding the whole process. That just makes the bad outcome more likely
Yes some honesty from the PM as to the consequences of the various options would be very nice. Like those papers that have news bad enough to bury.
of course, the other side needs to know that all options are valid otherwise they lose negotiating value. Note the correlation - not claiming causation yet - between "talk" of prep for HB and progress towards finally talking trade.
Hmmm....
Maybe our learners are learning on the job!
Obviously the faeries and unicorns are stuck at border control somewhere as Little Britain is rightly suspicious of foreigners !
we now have the government is pursuing a hard Brexshit. Neither is true but we know which one is on the highest volume right now!
?????
But you've been telling us that the gov has to be prepared to walk away, if its not an option what leverage do we have?
Thm are u running rings around yourself?
I suspect that mefty,Thm etc are now defending Brexit because it's become so entangled with the Tories.
Obvs a critical error by May + Davis to trigger A50 without preparing- Davis admitted b4 parliament they'd done no prep for a no deal scenario, whatever reports about effect of Brexit are gov desperately trying to surpress them.
What happened to Rudd's report on immigration, wasnt that due now?
Can u have a real strategy without knowing what you want or need as an outcome?
Triggering A50 so soon was a huge mistake by May & the Brexies (she really is that bad)
Now the clock is ticking, she's too weak to admit to a big exit bill so we can't progress, that leaves business & people's lives floundering, no wonder skilled EU workers are leaving research and the NHS, farmers hit by labour shortages and foreign investment in the UK collapsing.
What ever the Tory supporters who've now morphed into kippers say, no mandate lasts for ever, [b]IF[/b] the process has to be extended then things could change
Sssshhh don't let the eu know we are only joking about a hard brexit and it would be (what is the term for national suicide?) idiotic.
Good job that isn't something that could easily be defined as a unique and bespoke turd sandwich (English mustard only but maybe some lime pickle)
teamhurtmore - Member
IGM no it's not but neither is ...[edited simply for brevity - read it above if you want]
...That just makes the bad outcome more likely
I think we may be in agreement on that post at least.
Prepare for the worst too - I agree with you there.
But also hope that the country might just come to its collective senses (we will of course, but possibly not until after we have pulled the trigger on the gun pointing at our national foot - or perhaps we have pulled the trigger but still have time to move our foot).
What ever the Tory supporters who've now morphed into kippers say, no mandate lasts for ever, [b]IF[/b] the process has to be extended then things could change
This is why Redwood and chums don't want a transitional period. They know that the longer we sat in the Brexit departure lounge, the more of their supporters would be entering a rather more permanent departure lounge.
Demographics are not on their side, and they know it! Hence their urgency and this whole 'no deal is better than a bad deal' claptrap
Inflation at 3% mind the rally in the £ and get ready for first (small) increase in UK rates next month!
Yeah mortgage, loan and credit card defaults....
Oh dear, the frothers will be slating Carney for this
he's been flagging it for ages. No real surprise and it's only going to be 25bp